Maura Smith (2:31)

Hmm, that is a good question, Alison. One I haven't thought about this kind of. Well, I'll just say it. You know, Steve was a cool guy. He met everybody. He photographed many of the most important people during his generation, in my generation. And he never lost, just kind of being an everyday guy, you know, And I thought that was nice.

Host Alison Stewart (2:59)

He also didn't lose excitement about his job.

Interviewer Alison Stewart (3:03)

He was so excited at every moment, I mean, even the sad moments. But it was just like, yes, I have my camera and I can do this. You're Right.

Maura Smith (3:12)

You're right. That's a good observation. Yeah. That end thing that in Switzerland of him in the film, you know, he's photographing a protest, a female woman's protest, and a small town in Switzerland. You can just see his energy. Yeah.

Interviewer Alison Stewart (3:28)

Whose idea was it to make a documentary about his work?

Maura Smith (3:34)

It was kind of an accident how it happened, you know, Steve unfortunately got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer on June 22, 2021. And I called a couple people that I knew, there were celebrities that I knew that they collected Steve's photos. And I thought, oh, you know, maybe they'd be interested in doing a documentary, know, because kind of alerted them Steve wasn't doing too well, or he may not be doing too well, and a couple of them were interested, but just. I hired a film crew within two weeks because I thought, I just want to make sure we have Steve's stories because he loved telling his photo stories. He would go to book signings, and they'd always have a talk at the book signings, and he would just. He'd like that. He'd be on a lot of talk shows. When John Lewis died, the COVID Time magazine was Steve's photograph. So a lot of pub. It was during COVID So a lot of news stations wanted Steve to do an interview. And he. He loved. He loved doing interviews. So I photographed him and kind of just set that aside.

Interviewer Alison Stewart (4:37)

Yeah. I mean, with pancreatic cancer. My dad died of pancreatic cancer. It could be very quick, so you have to act pretty fast.

Maura Smith (4:43)

They said a year and a half in, and we had planned to go away in January. We didn't get there. Yeah.

Interviewer Alison Stewart (4:49)

As a director of the film, what was it like to interview your husband as your subject?

Maura Smith (4:56)

Alison, it wasn't like that. It was just me setting, you know, calling the shot. Like, why don't you sit. Why don't you sit here, honey, and tell that story about civil rights? Why don't you sit here and talk about Ali? Why don't you sit here, talk about Jackie Kennedy? You know, I could just reference it. All I did was move him. I just moved him to a different seat.

Interviewer Alison Stewart (5:17)

Was there a story that you really wanted him to tell people? Something that maybe he'd only told you.

Host Alison Stewart (5:24)

Alone or something he only kept private among his friends.

Interviewer Alison Stewart (5:27)

But you really wanted to make sure that he shared with people, maybe a.

Maura Smith (5:33)

Couple, you know, one story. I always have loved his migrant worker photos. I think they're just. Every one of them is just so significant. And I blew up one of them to 40 by 60. Because I just thought, I want this picture big in our home. And then the other story, of course was, you know, after Martin Luther King got killed. That's a very sad story. And it's really told emotionally through Steve's photos. I mean, I really feel it. I. When we get to that part of the film and you know, I've seen the film 100 times, you know, for sure, 50 times. And as soon as we get to that part, I, I get chills, I get emotionally involved again, you know, so I knew that was an important part. And the other part of the story was kind. I find it interesting in life, you know, I'm older, that you have so many influences in life and you don't get how they're influencing you. That something somebody said to you when you were 17 years old, they just said it passively and you've never forgotten it or something that was said to you 22 years ago, someone in passing just says a comment and you never forget it. And those things build. And I think that's what happened with Steve, that his influences, you know, just kind of build to how he ended his life.

Host Alison Stewart (6:54)

I'm speaking with director Morris Smith. We're discussing her documentary about the late photographer Steve Shapiro. It's called Steve Shapiro Being Everywhere. It's in theaters today with a week long engagement in New York at DCTV's Firehouse Cinema. How did you and Steve meet?

Maura Smith (7:12)

Blind date one Indeed. Yes. I had made a film and one of the actresses in the film, it was film called Towing, about a comedy about having your car towed away. And one of the actresses, Jennifer Ashley, had been doing a series of films and Perry Match hired Steve to take pictures of her and he was taking pictures of Jennifer. And Jennifer at that time drank a lot of champagne and Steve only drank when it was free. If he had to pay for it, he would have water. And so it took me about 20 years to figure out that Jennifer and Steve were probably drinking too much champagne. And she said, you should call my director, Morris Smith. And they called me and said, you guys should go out. You'll like Steve. He's short. Yeah, but it was 20 years later I thought, oh, they never would have if he had been not drinking champagne. Yeah, it might have happened. Yeah.

Host Alison Stewart (8:10)

Tell me about his childhood growing up in New York.

Maura Smith (8:13)

He was an only child and precious. And he would make fun of the fact that his mom would dress him only in Brooks Brothers, you know, and his mother and father were very devoted to him as they should have Been. Yeah, he went to Stuyvesant, you know, so that was a big deal. He wouldn't mention as much as his wife would mention it.

Host Alison Stewart (8:41)

Thinking about his childhood and how he spent his childhood, where do you think you see that in his work?

Maura Smith (8:48)

You know, I think because he hung out two things. Steve is a museum guy. Anytime. Steve lived at the Museum of Modern Art, and I have to say they just acquired some of his photos, which would have made him the happiest person in the world. And whenever we go to a foreign country, no matter where we were, one of the first places we go to would be a museum. So museums and just, you know, you're a New Yorker. He walks around the streets. So just museums and taking pictures of people was kind of like who he was.

Host Alison Stewart (9:23)

So are people watching with a camera?

Maura Smith (9:25)

Exactly. Which he probably can't do as easily now, you know, but he could. Then.

Host Alison Stewart (9:31)

When did he first become interested in taking pictures for real?

Maura Smith (9:34)

Okay. He mentions that he got the James Joyce Award in Dublin, which was a nice big deal. And he mentions how he was at camp and that he brought a camera and he just kept taking pictures of clouds and he just fell in love with the shape of clouds. And that kind of just. He kind of built on that. He was a literature major in college, but really came. Photography was thing. Cartier Besson was his guy. Yeah.

Host Alison Stewart (10:06)

Let's listen to a clip from Steve Shapiro being everywhere, and we can talk about it on the other side.

Steve Shapiro (10:13)

I think we should start this where it began. In my mid-20s, I had been influenced by Henri Cartier Bresson's book, the Decisive Moment, in which he was able to catch things at the peak of emotion with great design and giving you information about the subject. And I thought that was a superb way of doing photographs. And so I used to go out on the street trying to emulate Henri Cartier Bresson, and usually my timing was off by a few seconds. And what I came back with was incomprehensible. But I have overcome that a little bit.

Maura Smith (10:54)

A little bit. I led you into that. I did not know that clip was coming up.

Interviewer Alison Stewart (10:59)

Thank you very much.

Maura Smith (10:59)

Much. Thank you very much.

Host Alison Stewart (11:02)

What is an example of a picture of his that captures that peak emotion that he was just talking about?

Maura Smith (11:09)

I can give you two. One is. And I found it. I found it shortly before Steve died. It was of James Baldwin and Lena Horn, and it's in the film. And I just adore this picture. I blew it up to 20 by 24 and got it framed right Away, hanging in my home. And it's the two of them just doubled over in complete abandonment. Laughter. And you can't look at that picture without just being filled with the joy of that moment. And then the other picture, that means a lot to me and I don't know why I hold on to it so much, is it was during a protest in St. Augustine, Florida, and these African Americans decided they were going to go into a restaurant that was only white. Restaurant only. They were all dressed beautifully, like after church and were just going to go into the restaurant even though it was only whites. And of course, they all got arrested. And you see the sheriffs and the police pulling them into police vans. But there is the most tender picture of this probably 12 year old boy who, who is. You can see he's in a, you know, paddy wagon and he's leaning down to escort this woman into the paddy wagon. I'm going to cry. To think of this young boy being so composed, knowing he had been pushed around, he's being arrested and that he still has that composure to kindly reach out to that woman. I think that I, I am probably going to cry. But anyway, it, it's a very important picture for me.

Interviewer Alison Stewart (12:45)

We're speaking with Maura Smith. She's the director of a documentary called Steve Being Everywhere. He was surrounded by famous people, constantly surrounded by Bowie and Marlon Brando and Barbra Streisand. These people are used to having their picture taken all of the time. How did Steve go about trying to create something new?

Maura Smith (13:11)

He did not create anything new, Alison. What Steve did, and I didn't appreciate him when I first met him, but what Steve did is he took a good picture of you. He did not try and take a picture of what he had decided was going to be you.

Interviewer Alison Stewart (13:25)

Oh, interesting.

Maura Smith (13:26)

He did not do his style on you. He figured out, I want to photograph.

Interviewer Alison Stewart (13:32)

Alison and whatever she's doing at that moment, whoever.

Maura Smith (13:36)

Yeah, yeah, that's Alison. I don't need to have my opinion of Allison on that picture. I'll just do Allison.

Interviewer Alison Stewart (13:45)

When he was working for magazine, did he have a choice of what he would choose to take a picture of.

Maura Smith (13:51)

Sometimes, you know, like James Baldwin, you heard that he went into Life magazine and said, hey, I just read this great article in the New Yorker by James Baldwin. Could I go do a photo essay on him? So sometimes he would suggest things, but usually he would just be assigned.

Interviewer Alison Stewart (14:06)

But I did like that he would walk into the office and be like, hey, I read this. Hey, I saw that. Hey, I want to go there. I thought that was like. I like that about this man.

Maura Smith (14:17)

Well, he says. He did tell me that he used to just kind of sit in the waiting life. Yeah, just wait. You know, if I'm sitting here, they'll grab me. Yeah. Good advice for young people. Be available.

Interviewer Alison Stewart (14:30)

That is true. When we're talking about the movie posters he did, like the Godfather and Taxi Driver. How did he get into shooting movie posters?

Maura Smith (14:40)

You know, that's interesting. I think the first movie that he worked on was the Cardinal with John Houston. And then he got the Barbra Streisand film Funny Girl. The reason he really got into movies was because magazines. He lived in New York, but magazines were closing down. You know, Life and Look were kind of dismantling. So he. He kind of. He went to LA because he knew he needed to get more work and he thought he could get in doing movies. And he did. He did. He did a good job. He was not a still photographer. People don't understand that. He was called a special photographer and he would just be brought in to do special moments in a film. And that was because they thought he'd probably get good placement in magazines. And he did.

Host Alison Stewart (15:28)

As you said, he worked the civil rights movement. He also worked with rfk.

Maura Smith (15:34)

Yeah.

Interviewer Alison Stewart (15:36)

What was.

Host Alison Stewart (15:36)

What was his memory of rfk? If he had to describe a time with rfk, what would he describe?

Maura Smith (15:43)

Probably the best moment in his life. Yeah, it was. He always referenced Robert Kennedy in terms of politicians that he was. Had integrity, he was intelligent, he knew how to work with the system. He had really brilliant ideas. No, Steve was a massive fan of Robert Kennedy.

Host Alison Stewart (16:04)

So you mentioned all of these people who. People know by name. Who's someone that we don't know by name that you thought he took a beautiful picture of.

Maura Smith (16:13)

That's a good comment. That is a very good question. Let me give it just a second of. Oh, I know one. I know one. I can't believe I got it so fast. He did a lot of stuff at the Paolo Theater. So there is this little boy. I would guess he'd be about four, and everyone's dancing in the background. And this kid is just in the foreground, totally dancing. I would love to know where that kid is. Is he still with us in the world? I'd love to meet him. I love that kid.

Host Alison Stewart (16:46)

We get into the film a little bit. We get into Steve's later life and his faith. Why did you want to include this in the film?

Maura Smith (16:57)

Because Steve was talking about a lot. You know, people would come over you know, Steve was declining probably the last three months of his life. You know, you knew it wasn't going to end well. And people come over and pretty much everybody that came over, he wanted to tell them about that. And a lot of the people felt maybe, I don't know, I think a couple people felt uncomfortable about him, wanted to telling about his faith and. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, I think, and I didn't see it coming. I just want you to know that I had no idea that, that we didn't talk about faith. We never did. Steve grew up Jewish. I grew up Catholic. I would do my Catholic, he would do his. He didn't really practice faith. A lot of Catholics don't practice their faith. So I don't criticize that. I understand. But yeah, we never talked about faith. But my son is very, our son is very willing to talk about faith. And he connected with some, with this one priest in Chicago that is just dynamic in terms of driving people nuts because he really always goes for the underdog. And Stephen, he worked together a good amount. I think those two influences affected Steve, which I didn't get it. I didn't know that was coming.

Host Alison Stewart (18:25)

What did Steve think of the smartphone and its ability to take a picture?

Maura Smith (18:30)

He would encourage people to do it. He was like, hey, listen guys, you got something right there. You can take pictures all the time. He really did. He himself probably didn't do that much on his cell phone because he had good cameras, so why, you know, and he knew how to use them. But he did encourage people to take pictures.

Host Alison Stewart (18:48)

What advice would he give to young photographers out there now listening? What should they take away from this film and from him?

Maura Smith (18:55)

You know, he says it in the film. He says it, you know, go out there, take pictures that mean something. Change the world again. I'm gonna cry.

Host Alison Stewart (19:04)

It's all right to cry. The name of the film is Steve Shapiro Being Everywhere. It's in theaters today with a week long engagement at New York's DCTV Firehouse Cinema. I have been speaking with Morris Smith, the director of the film and also the wife of Steve Shapiro.

Maura Smith (19:23)

Can I add one fast thing? Yes, please. See it in a movie theater. It looks so good with those beautiful pictures on a screen. Please try to. I'll give you a dollar, you can contact me. I'll make a donation.

Host Alison Stewart (19:36)

Thank you so much, Maura. There's more. All of it on the way. A new documentary, Mistress Dispeller, follows a woman who has been hired to help end an affair and save a marriage. Coming Up Director Elizabeth Lowe joins us in studio to talk about it. That's happening after the news.

Maura Smith (19:55)

For 140 years, MultiCare has been in Washington prioritizing long term solutions, partnering with local communities and expanding access to care. Together, we're building a healthier future.

Ira Flato (20:08)

Learn more@mycare.org IRA I'm Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, our team has been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine. News you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7, our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, climate change, genetic engineering, childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship. Wnyc. Org.