Podcast Summary: All Of It — Poet Cynthia Zarin's 'Next Day' Collection

Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Cynthia Zarin
Date: September 26, 2024
Episode Theme:
This episode explores the craft and life of acclaimed poet Cynthia Zarin, focusing on her latest collection, Next Day, which combines new works and selected poems from her decades-long career. The conversation weaves between the process of curating a career-spanning collection, the emotional and thematic through-lines of her poetry, memorable collaborations, family, and her foray into fiction.

Main Themes & Episode Purpose

• Creation and Curation: An intimate look at how Cynthia Zarin selected and revisited poems for her new collection, and the unexpected discoveries in her older works.
• The Nature of Poetry: Reflections on the craft, editing, and the lived experience that informs her poems.
• Memory and Recrimination: Recurring motifs in Zarin’s work—memory, personal atonement, and the lingering effects of early experiences.
• Family and Art: The significance of artistic collaboration within her family, particularly regarding the cover art of Next Day.
• Expanding Literary Horizons: Insights into Zarin's recent debut novel, the process behind it, and her ongoing literary evolution.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Curating a Career-Spanning Collection

• Revisiting Old Poems:
  • Zarin was surprised at how vividly she remembered her poems while retyping the entire manuscript, finding herself “inside of them” due to the meticulous revision process throughout her career.
  • Quote (Cynthia Zarin, 02:19):
    “I do work so hard. 80 revisions is not unusual for me. So... it was a little bit, I was surprised by that.”
• Enduring Themes:
  • She notes many of her enduring subjects were present in her very first poem, The Orchard Dialogue.
  • Quote (Cynthia Zarin, 02:54):
    “I think that most of the themes are in that very first poem. So that was... interesting.”

Readings and Reflections

• "The Orchard Dialogue" is read aloud (04:01), setting a tone of nostalgia, place, and an undercurrent of longing and loss.
• Sound and Poetry:
  • Zarin emphasizes reading poems aloud as essential to her process; she encourages students to do the same to appreciate “heightened speech.”
  • Quote (Cynthia Zarin, 05:49):
    “Poetry is really so close to song. You know, it's in between song and prose and maybe drama. So it's really a kind of heightened speech.”

Collaboration and Editorial Relationships

• Working with Editor Deborah Garrison:
  • Their longtime partnership underpins Zarin’s publishing journey. Garrison’s belief and gentle nudges have been pivotal in bringing the books to fruition.
  • Quote (Cynthia Zarin, 06:20):
    “She has really just been an ear all along... I really don't think these books would exist... without Deb's belief in my work as a poet and also her understanding of my temperament.”
• On Editorial Disagreement:
  • Zarin is “so hard on myself” that disputes are rare, though occasional feedback from other editors is helpful, often at the level of a “comma.”

On Memory, Regret, and the Poem “Harriet”

• Zarin reads “Harriet,” a concise, haunting poem rooted in childhood guilt and its lasting reverberations (09:01).
• The poem’s honest reckoning of an old unkindness provides a window into Zarin’s recurring theme of self-reproach.
• Quote (Cynthia Zarin, 10:01):
  “You know, when you're a child... you just say something mean... I really carried it around forever.”

Family, Art, and the Book Cover

• Cover Art by Daughter, Rose:
  • The inclusion is emotionally meaningful, continuing a family tradition as the children’s father created her earlier covers.
• Selection Process:
  • The chosen painting wasn’t the obvious pick, but proved perfect, symbolizing unplanned but organic resonance in her creative life.

Poetry and Parenting

• While her children grew up surrounded by poetry, Zarin reflects on the separation between parental and literary identities.
• Quote (Cynthia Zarin, 11:43):
  “Children really like you to be their parent rather than a writer who is perhaps writing about things they'd rather not think about.”

Expanding into Fiction: The Novel "Inverno"

• Zarin describes the evolution of her debut novel, which began as a letter and grew, over a decade, through expansion and ruthless editing (12:21).
• The novel’s compressed final form emerged from hundreds of thousands of words, a process involving outside feedback and perseverance.
• Upcoming Work:
  • A companion novel, Estate, will follow next year.

Title Poem and Literary Influence

• Zarin reads the title poem, “Next Day” (14:00), explaining its nod to Grace Paley’s story collections, evoking continuity, change, and poetic aftermath.
• The poem is dense with imagery—moths, mermaids, woodpiles—evoking both transience and persistence.

On Teaching and Contemporary Poetry

• Zarin teaches at Yale; students primarily write from personal experience, often gravitating toward love poems.
• Notable Student Quote (Cynthia Zarin relaying, 15:45):
  “A poem is an impossible gesture towards a dubious outcome.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Reliving Old Work:
  • “You think, in this day and age... I'm not exactly sure why I ended up retyping the whole manuscript.” (Cynthia Zarin, 02:19)
• On Editorial Collaborations:
  • “Once in a while, she'll say... I think it's time for a book. And I'll say, I don't have anything. And she'll say, yes, you do. I'm putting you on the list...” (Cynthia Zarin, 06:47)
• On the Enduring Nature of Childhood Guilt:
  • “Monster is what the mirror said to me. I opened my mouth and Harriet fled.” (from “Harriet,” Cynthia Zarin, 08:59)
• On Transference in Parenting/Poetry:
  • “Children really like you to be their parent rather than a writer who is perhaps writing about things they'd rather not think about.” (Cynthia Zarin, 11:43)
• On the Work of Craft:
  • “I wrote 700 words a day or a thousand words a day. And after a while you have a lot.” (Cynthia Zarin, 12:30)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:17] Introduction to Cynthia Zarin and her work
• [02:04] Revisiting and curating her entire body of poetry
• [04:01] Reading “The Orchard Dialogue”
• [05:49] On poetry as sound, reading work aloud
• [06:10] Dedication to editor Deborah Garrison; editorial relationship
• [07:49] Types and process of poetic editing
• [08:39] Reading and discussing “Harriet”
• [09:59] Emotional weight and aftermath of childhood cruelty
• [10:45] Discussing the family involvement in cover art
• [12:21] Overview of Inverno, Zarin’s novel-writing journey
• [13:52] Reading the title poem, “Next Day”
• [15:36] Poetry teaching and student interests

Overall Tone and Language

The tone remains reflective, intimate, and gently humorous, rich with the language of someone deeply engaged with the subtleties of experience and craft. Both Alison Stewart and Cynthia Zarin demonstrate warmth, curiosity, and a shared reverence for the written word.

This episode provides an enlightening portrait of Cynthia Zarin—her creative process, influences, and the lived realities behind her poetic voice—making it essential listening for poetry lovers and the culturally curious.