All Of It — Poet Patricia Smith Wins the National Book Award

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: David Fuerst (in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Patricia Smith
Air Date: December 15, 2025

Overview of the Episode

This episode features poet Patricia Smith, newly awarded the National Book Award for Poetry for her collection The Intentions of Thunder: New and Selected Poems. The conversation explores Smith’s journey as a writer from performance poetry in jazz clubs through academic recognition, her roots and influences, the evolving nature of her work over decades, and the power of witnessing and sharing lived experiences through poetry. The episode includes readings of both early and recent poems, and an intimate discussion of Smith’s family, teaching, and the responsibility poets hold today.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Winning the National Book Award & Bridging Poetic Worlds

• Performance and Academic Divide:
  Smith describes her entry to poetry through live performance, long being labeled a “performance poet,” and the longstanding division between “academic poets” and “street or performance poets.”
  • “For a long time I was considered a performer...there was always this imaginary chasm between the so called academic poets and the street or performance poets...until I realized that we were all doing the same thing.” (02:13)
  • She reflects on the emotional arc of moving from smoky Chicago jazz clubs to sharing the stage with "premier poets" she once only admired.

2. Looking Back: Evolution of Her Work (1991–2024)

• Beginnings and Early Community:
  Smith recounts a formative experience at a five-hour poetry program in Chicago, surprise at discovering the city's literary community, and being encouraged by luminaries like Gwendolyn Brooks.
  • “I went to this thing and...I found out that there was this amazing community. Gwendolyn Brooks...was there, and she was encouraging the younger poets.” (04:00)
  • The Green Mill jazz club became her creative home, shaping her ideas about poetry and audience.
    • “I've never thought, well, I'm the poet, you are the audience...I'm kind of trying to grow the community of witnesses.” (05:04)
• From Spontaneity to Structure:
  Smith tracks her evolution from free-form, stream-of-consciousness writing to mastering technique and poetic form.
  • “In the beginning I was just trying to get it on page so I could get up on stage...I knew nothing about line breaks...When I decided that I wanted to learn the mechanics of poetry, I went to an MFA program.” (05:24)
  • “You learn everything, so you can learn to break rules. That's what it's all about.” (06:23)

3. Revisiting Joys and Wounds: The Curatorial Process

• Emotional Excavation:
  Reflecting on assembling a collection spanning 30+ years, Smith describes the emotional labor of revisiting both painful and joyous moments:
  • “Going back in was like...opening a wound, but in some instances, it's revisiting something that was happier. But I did have to go back in...I remembered how I wanted to feel when I was done.” (06:48)

4. Poetry Reading: “Doing the Louvre”

• Introduction (08:06):
  A poem from her early years depicting her first trip to Paris and the wonder of discovery, “before you got jaded and numb to it.”
• Notable Excerpts:
  • “We're of simpler stock, city and country dust, collard greens, moon pies, bullet holes and basement slow dances. We are shamelessly American rough street girls with rusty knees, the flip side of Parisian wisp...But you're a junkie just like I am. Too long denied access to official beauty. We walk these streets with our mouths open and faces tilting up.” (08:49)
  • “How can the world help but love us? We would give Venus our arms...Knowing she's a junkie just like we are. She longs for our wild voices, our naive accidental beauty.” (12:09)

5. On "Junkie" and the Collectors of Experience

• Metaphor of “Junkie”:
  The refrain, “you're a junkie, just like I am,” is explained as a hunger for experience, beauty, and art:
  • “A junkie, like a lover of things. A collector, you know, I want all of it. And I want it right now.” (13:42)
  • Smith relates this mindset to her ongoing pursuit of artistic collaboration, underscoring how the arts “are always speaking to each other.” (13:52)

6. The Power and Influence of Teachers

• Dedication and Personal Anecdote:
  The book is dedicated to her teachers; Smith recalls tracking down her fifth grade teacher, the first adult to believe in her literary potential:
  • “I went to a school where we were expected to fail...For the first time, I had a teacher look at me and look at something that I had written and tell me, you were meant to do this.” (14:38)
  • “If it had not happened, it would be so easy to talk me into, okay, your life is preordained...so just face it, you're not going to make it.” (15:58)
  • Parental influence: Her mother was skeptical—“Only white men do that”—but Smith persisted, finding in writing a sense of autonomy and hope.

7. Advice for Aspiring Poets

• Universal Storytelling:
  Smith encourages writers to see themselves as storytellers and to value their stories:
  • “Poetry is something that belongs explicitly to you. No one has to see it. It could make you move from one place in your head to a safer place to a stronger place...Don't think of yourself as a poet, think of yourself as a storyteller.” (16:49)

8. Poetry Reading: “What Daughters Come Down To” (2010–2024 Section)

• Introduction (18:18):
  Smith chooses to read this late-stage poem, hinting at its personal significance.
• Notable Excerpts:
  • “For what I'm sure is the fifth time, my mother plugs in a flat mournful hum where the words I love you too should be. Then she hangs up without saying goodbye...” (18:28)
  • “Her rugs are faultless. The purpled tulips I have sent for her birthday are insistent, feral beauty, a blood in the room like her daughter, they have bloomed in the clutches of vapor. I love you too, she thinks out loud, but can't.” (19:53)
• On Vulnerability and Community:
  • “When I tried to address [family things, heartbreak] earlier, I didn't have the tools or the courage to do so...We tend to clutch our secrets. And the minute you bring something out into the air, it's like, 'Oh, I didn't have a great relationship with my mom'—other people come up and say, 'me too.'” (20:27)
  • Smith remarks on poetry’s rising importance as a place of “truth in such short supply.” (21:31)

9. Closing Reflections

• On Family, Music, and the Arc of a Career:
  The collection is lauded for its coverage of music, history, parenthood, and its emotional range.
• Lasting Message:
  Poetry, for Smith, is both personal therapy and collective power—the ultimate act of witnessing and connecting.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On her beginnings and the poetry community:
  “I found out that there was this amazing community. Gwendolyn Brooks...was there, and she was encouraging the younger poets.” (04:00)
• On evolving as a poet:
  “In the beginning I was just trying to get it on page so I could get up on stage...When I decided that I wanted to learn the mechanics of poetry, I went to an MFA program.” (05:24)
• On artistic hunger:
  “A junkie, like a lover of things. A collector...I want all of it. And I want it right now.” (13:42)
• On the power of teachers:
  “For the first time, I had a teacher...tell me, you were meant to do this.” (14:38)
• Advice to new writers:
  “Poetry is something that belongs explicitly to you...Don't think of yourself as a poet, think of yourself as a storyteller.” (16:49)
• On family in poetry:
  “I love you too, she thinks out loud, but can't.” —from “What Daughters Come Down To” (20:24)
• On poetry as lifeline:
  “Truth is in such short supply lately that people are now turning to the poets...when we're writing about serious things, we owe it to those people to give them a lifeline.” (21:31)

Poetry Readings Feature

• “Doing the Louvre” (08:49–12:09):
  A vibrant, humorous, and poignant depiction of first-time wonder in Europe, woven with American cultural roots and a hunger for beauty.
• “What Daughters Come Down To” (18:28–20:24):
  A later piece that navigates maternal relationships, distance, love withheld, and the quiet drama of aging and memory.

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introduction of guest/Smith’s background – 02:06
• Reflections on poetic identity and community – 02:13–05:16
• Poetry evolution & artistic tools – 05:16–06:23
• Emotional challenge of curating the collection – 06:28–07:57
• First poem reading: “Doing the Louvre” – 08:49–12:09
• Insights on artistic hunger (“junkie” metaphor) – 12:47–13:50
• Dedication to teachers and teacher’s influence – 14:21–16:37
• Advice for aspiring poets – 16:37–17:52
• Second poem reading: “What Daughters Come Down To” – 18:28–20:24
• Responsibility and vulnerability in poetry – 20:25–22:51
• Closing gratitude and wrap-up – 23:05–23:27

Episode Takeaway

Patricia Smith’s conversation and poetry illuminate the breadth and depth of a poetic career rooted as much in lived experience as in literary tradition. Her arc from “rough street girl” to National Book Award winner models the power of storytelling, the necessity of vulnerability, and poetry’s crucial role in building community, truth-telling, and healing. Her words encourage would-be poets and listeners alike to claim and cherish their own stories—because, as Smith insists, “poetry is something that belongs explicitly to you.”