Loading summary
Transcript67 lines
- [00:09]
A
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. The new Broadway play Punch shows how life can change in an instant. A young man dies because of a single punch to the head. And it's based on a true story. Jacob is a brash, jumpy, amped up kid living in low income housing in Nottingham, England. He has troubles at school, but he seems to be drawn to the troubles in the streets. Booze, drugs, fights, all of it. When Jacob is told about a fight outside a pub, he arrives without thinking, throws just one punch, one fatal punch. The parents of the man who has killed James are devastated. But then something astounding happens. They reach out to the young man who has killed their son. They want answers and maybe something more. Punch was adapted by by playwright James Graham from the real Jacob Dunn's memoir. It's running now at the same FRIEDMAN the through November 2nd. I'm joined in studio by actor Will Harrison who is making his Broadway debut as Jacob. It's nice to meet you.
- [01:11]
B
Nice to meet you too. Thank you for having me.
- [01:13]
A
And hopefully on zoom. Fingers crossed. From England we have playwright James Grand. James, do you hear me?
- [01:19]
C
I do, yeah. Nice to be here. Thank you.
- [01:21]
A
Nice to meet you. I'm gonna turn on my camera in a second. You just hold on there for a second. James, how did you come up with the idea to turn Jacob Dunn's memoir into a play?
- [01:32]
C
I think honestly it's one of the most moving real life stories I've just ever come across. It concerns a guy who goes into the criminal justice system and the prison system and comes out the other side and you expect it to be that very familiar cycle. He was absolutely going to go back into that reoffending cycle. And then this extraordinary thing happens that the parents of the person who he harmed, the person who he killed, reach out to him and basically, basically they save him. And it's that very, very unusual example of a very hopeful story set in a very, very bleak world. And it just kind of, it broke my heart so I think I had to tell it.
- [02:12]
D
Will, it is such a challenging role. You are so up for the challenge. You were great in this play. I don't say that very often to people who come in like right off the bat, but you were amazing in this role.
- [02:22]
B
Thank you, that's very kind.
- [02:24]
D
What made you interested in the part? Because it is you on stage a lot.
- [02:29]
B
It is non stop. Yeah, it is an unrelenting one to play, but it's such a, such a joy. And they don't come along like this very often. So it was a, a no brainer in terms of jumping at the opportunity. And I was just so moved by the, the script, you know. You know, these things come into your inbox and it's not often that you're moved to tears on the first read. It really is such an amazing piece of writing. Credit to James for that and Adam, who is our director, they worked on the show together and developed it in Nottingham. And yeah, it was just so moving and it's a pleasure to work on.
- [03:12]
A
What part of the play really caught you the most on the first time you read it, it really just caught you in your throat.
- [03:21]
B
There's a scene towards the end where the parents of James Hodgkinson meet Jacob and it's just wonderfully written and there is such a tension and such a nervousness that they all go into this meeting with and they find a really, really heartwarming resolution and they are able to express their feelings and kind of come to terms with this tragedy. And that one got me.
- [03:58]
A
James, you had conversations with the parents of the young man who died. What did they share with you that was helpful in your writing process? What was something that you wanted to make sure you captured when you were writing this play?
- [04:12]
C
Yeah, that's a great question. I feel like there probably is a lot of skepticism when audiences come in to see this show, which is essentially about a process that is very unfamiliar to people. And I know in the UK and I think in the us, there was an assumption that what the real life Jacob and David and Joan went through with some kind of soft, easy, woolly, liberal thing, rather than something incredibly powerful, effective, difficult for the people who undertook this mission. And I think I wanted to show that just how extraordinary, almost how superhuman it was for these parents to reach out to the person who killed their son, and how extraordinary it was for Jacob the offender to go on that incredibly vulnerable, difficult process where he had to. You know, when you think about what, what, what prisoners mostly have to deal with, they very often don't really have to confront the people they've hurt. Jacob was willing to sit opposite the people whose son he took. And I just thought that was so remarkable and I kind of wanted to stay just kind of take the audience through how remarkable that was. And I'm glad you think Will's extraordinary. I think what he does on stage is just. It's just remarkable. And we're so lucky to. Will came across to Nottingham, my hometown, to see the environment where the play takes place. He Met the real Jacob. He's, you know, he's a real dedicated actor to this part, and we're very lucky to have him.
- [05:45]
A
Well, so much of the play is in Jacob's voice, and it's from his perspective. How did you go about finding that voice and that personality as you developed the character?
- [05:56]
B
Well, as James said, I had the wonderful opportunity of going over to Nottingham and spending some time with him, which was a invaluable resource just to kind of take in some of his mannerisms and, you know, just the way he. He carries himself. And I brought a lot of that to it. And then also you have the fact that it spans such a long period in his life, and he is, I think, very different from how he was when he was in those early teenage years. So finding. Finding that was a really fun dance as well, because there's a lot of energy and volatility. And it was really important to me that, you know, this. It doesn't feel it was a. It was a tragic event, but that it doesn't feel like an accident. In a way, he was on. On a path where this was a constant possibility and. And that there's a sense of danger that you feel coming off of him in that first part of the play. Before we get to the resolution was really important to me to flesh out.
- [07:10]
D
Let's listen to a little bit of you and punch. This is from the beginning of the show, and you're giving a monologue and you're sort of frenetic and you're jumping around the stage and we get to listen to a little. The people around you and the pace of what we're talking about. This is Jacob in the aftermath after he has punched the young man.
- [07:31]
A
This is from the play at the Punch Run.
- [07:36]
E
I run through the city in a blind panic and I don't look back. I just know it feels bad. Like I've thrown enough fists. I know the feeling in the form, a sixth sense, the way he went down, but I don't think about it. Punches and smacks and twats to the face. Common occurrences. Ten a penny. Like I just want to get out of the center and back to the safety of the meadows. The feeling of my home. And I know this place. This is my place, my city. Same old game. Avoid cameras. Know the route this way and that. Up there, round there and down there. My feet can't feel the pavement. Like I'm walking on water floating on air. Not looking back, don't look back. And I'm halfway home when I take a beat, catch my breath.
- [08:24]
A
You're not British.
- [08:26]
B
I'm not. Wow, that's wild to listen to. I've never. Never heard that back.
- [08:31]
D
Oh, really?
- [08:32]
B
No.
- [08:33]
D
What was that like to hear?
- [08:34]
B
It's really. It's fascinating. And also knowing what, you know, what the physicality of it is and just how much running around I've done to that point. Yeah, that was cool to hear.
- [08:45]
D
What was your process for nailing the dialect? Because that's a specific dialect.
- [08:49]
B
It's such a specific one. Yeah. I mean, we had a wonderful coach who was in the room and keeping us on task with all of those little vowel changes. And then I also have to say that I've just been so obsessed with. You know, I grew up obsessed with movies like Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels and In Bruges and Trainspotting, and, you know, those are not this specific accent, but it's always been something that's been in my ear and that I've loved attempting to imitate. So I jumped at the opportunity to do such a specific UK dialect, and it was so satisfying to work on.
- [09:28]
A
My guests are actor Will Harrison and playwright James Graham were discussing their new Broadway play, Punch. It's based on the true story of reconciliation between a young man who made a terrible mistake and the family he harmed. It's running now through November 2nd. James the Beast. The beginning of the play is all about establishing Jacob's life and his experiences and explains how he got to the point where he just throws this punch, as he said he was probably gonna end up doing this at some point in his life. What was the challenge of setting up all this exposition without making it feel like, here's the exposition?
- [10:03]
C
Sure. Well, I'll let audiences judge whether I did that successfully or not. But I think you're right. It is about building a whole environment that this character lives in. And I think that's partly because the play kind of tells a story that believes that these things don't happen in isolation. There's always a context to why people commit crime. It might be poverty. It might be cultural. I certainly think that masculinity and the questions that we're all having at the moment about aggression and toxic masculinity features into this. Jacob was a young guy who had no father, no positive male role model. All of his male role models were exploitative. They wanted to get something out of him. And Jacob's entire system and his value system was about showing, earning validation through violence and through harming people. It took, you know, it Took the mother of the person he killed to tell him there was another value system. And so I think, yeah, it was about building a whole environment, a whole system, a whole culture. And also slightly, you wouldn't think it, but slightly celebrating my home city of Nottingham. It's a post industrial place. I guess it's what Americans would call these left behind communities, which feel very angry, very resentful, very part of the political conversation at the moment. So actually understanding people from this background and understanding what makes them tick, which was a privilege, to be honest.
- [11:30]
A
How did you want to explore class dynamics in the play, James?
- [11:35]
C
Yeah, class is huge. I mean, I think I know you guys love Downton Abbey over there and that's like the upstairs, downstairs, the classes, English class system. It's not quite like that anymore, but it is. You know, we still, we still wrestle with class as a, as an identifier in this country. Probably way more than other people, but it is still true. Really sadly, really frustratingly is still true in the uk, much like in the us that where you're born and who you're born to still determines a lot of your opportunities. And we never want to excuse what Jacob did. There's lots of people, myself included, who grew up in a working class community. Single mum who didn't make his choices. But I'm also aware that I was very lucky myself. I found hobbies, I had an amazing school and drama teachers who fueled my passion. Jacob didn't have that. And I think if you're born to working class parents still in the UK to this day, you've got to fight on your hands.
- [12:34]
A
Well, physicality is such a big part in this role. Can you tell us about your conversations with the director of the play? How you use your body to tell part of Will's story? It's not just the words. Your body tells the story as well.
- [12:52]
B
Yeah, there's such a. You know, we find Jacob in so many different scenarios throughout the story. And I think that using your body to tell and paint pictures of what those different environments feel like is such a device that's specific to theater and is so helpful in this one. You know, the early parts of his life where there's this looseness and this bravado and this muscular way that he's moving through spaces and then, you know, when he finds himself in, in places that he's uncomfortable and he's, you know, he struggles with talking about his emotions and, and facing up to this crime that he's committed, he, you know, he freezes up and you watch his body, you know, become something totally different. And that was something that we chasing all the time and always wanting it to feel very intentional and kind of plotted out. That's been a really helpful thing throughout the whole process is how does the body tell the story just as much as the words?
- [14:01]
D
James, you're following two arcs in the story. You're following Jacob's part of the story. But also there's the journey of Joan and David, the parents. How did you want to make sure that you gave each the right amount of weight?
- [14:16]
C
Yeah, that was really hard because we took the decision to frame the whole story around the actions of Jacob, the person who commits the crime, rather than. Rather than the victims, because Jacob goes on this extraordinary journey. But, you know, you want to honor what those parents went through, and you also want to honor James, the victim, who is not present physically on stage. But it was very important that he felt like he was all the way through it. So what you do is you ask. I'm a big believer in collaborating, and I worked hard with the parents on what they felt they wanted, included what they didn't, how they wanted to be treated. For the first time ever in my life, I sent pages of the script to the people I was representing so that they could comment. And I listened to those comments and was really respectful of that. It's incremental, that process. You learn, you make mistakes, you improve. And I think and hope and believe and that. Actually, David and Joan came to see the show with Will in New York, and I think they were very pleased with it. So you check in all the time. But they were very moved by what Will was doing.
- [15:22]
D
Let's listen to another clip from the play. This is Joan and David deciding whether they might want to reach out to Jacob. This is from Punch.
- [15:33]
F
I looked at myself in the mirror this morning and I was like.
- [15:38]
C
Where.
- [15:38]
D
Did.
- [15:41]
F
I'm becoming someone James wouldn't know, wouldn't even maybe like. So then for James, I've been wondering if we tried something else.
- [15:58]
E
Something else?
- [15:59]
F
Every step of the way, the things I thought would help. I thought, once he's convicted, that'll help. But then it didn't. Not really. And then when he was sentenced, and then this appeal, and then, and then, and then. But we are just stuck here with these feelings. So I wonder if we should write to him, ask him things.
- [16:27]
A
Who? Him.
- [16:30]
C
Why?
- [16:31]
A
He's.
- [16:32]
E
We saw him in court. He wouldn't look at us.
- [16:35]
C
He's just a thug.
- [16:37]
E
A helpless, hopeless, nasty, sodim thug.
- [16:42]
F
Evil David. Nothing Else is working.
- [16:48]
D
That's from Punch. You are on stage with some veteran actors.
- [16:53]
B
Yeah.
- [16:54]
D
Victoria Clarke, obviously, remember, from Kimberly Akimbo, won the Tony. Sam Robards, what have you. What do you learn from them, Will?
- [17:02]
B
They have been such amazing cast members and collaborators, and they. They bring a, you know, a base of knowledge and just sense of calm to the room. It's really. It's been a pleasure to work with them. And, you know, Victoria is such a. Such a veteran of the stage and has been doing it so long and she has been so amazing in taking care of me and making sure I have, you know, the right tea to keep the voice right. Oh, yeah. She's been so kind and, yeah, it's really. It was a wonderful, wonderful room to be in. The cast across the board is incredible. And we all took such care with, you know, how to tell this story. And I think it really. It shows on stage.
- [17:49]
A
James, you know, there's a. There's a movie out now which deals with restorative justice, and it has sort of the opposite outcome. Urchin. Right. The meeting goes horribly wrong in the film. How much research did you do into restorative justice and what can happen so that a positive outcome could happen? Because they are very different films. They're both. The film is very different. They're both really good pieces of work.
- [18:15]
C
Honestly, I was so impressed by the people who lead these processes. And actually, so much care goes into making sure that there is a positive outcome that actually, no disrespect to that film, but it's very, very unlikely that it won't end well. In our story, they took two years before they decided to put the real Jacob with the real family because of all the care, the evidence, the psychological basis that made sure that they were going to get something out of it. And we want to advocate for it. We want to advocate for the positive aspects of restorative justice. And I think it benefits all those involved. I couldn't speak more highly of it.
- [18:54]
A
Well, how do you hope this show changes the way people think about punishment, about forgiveness?
- [19:00]
B
Yeah, we talked a lot about that in the room and I knew next to nothing about the restorative justice process going in, but learning about it has been so eye opening, and now I really can't imagine that we are doing it any other way. Obviously, there needs to be, you know, checks and balances and people need to be held to account. But the asking the question of who was harmed and what did they need to heal and how can we make that happen for all parties involved is really just such a human way to move through events like this. And I think that people coming and seeing the show and hopefully looking into restorative justice more and learning about it, I hope that it reaches a, a wider audience in that way because I think it's really transformative work that these people are doing.
- [19:56]
A
James, what do you hope people walk.
- [19:57]
D
Away from this show thinking about and.
- [20:00]
C
Talking about exactly as Will said? I think, you know, forgiveness is not given much currency in our current political climate. You know, in both our countries we are celebrating cruelty and boasting and crushing your opponent. And I think restorative justice is an example that kindness, compassion and forgiveness can have evidence based benefits to society, to the people involved, to the taxpayer. You know, you spend in the UK, you spend £1 on restorative justice and it saves £14 in locking these people up. It's, you know, it's, I feel like forgiveness, exactly as we all described very beautifully, is as a subject matter we should all be trying to restore into our lexicon.
- [20:48]
D
We've been talking about the new Broadway play Punch. My guests have been playwright James Graham and actor Will Harrison. It's running now through November 2nd. Thank you for joining us. We really appreciate you being here, we.
- [21:01]
A
Appreciate you being in studio.
- [21:03]
B
Thank you for having me.
- [21:04]
C
Thanks Allison.
- [21:06]
D
And that is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I'll meet you back here next time.
- [21:17]
G
Our state has changed a lot in the last 140 years. We know because Multicare has been here guided by a single purpose, making our communities healthier. That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering with local communities to grow programs and services and expanding health care access to those who need it most. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@mycare.org.
- [21:48]
H
It'S cybersecurity awareness Month and Lifelock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice. Lifelock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe and stay protected. With a 30 day free trial at LifeLock special offer terms apply.