Podcast Summary: All Of It – Rachel Maddow's Podcast Examines a Far-Right Movement in the U.S.

Host: Alison Stewart, WNYC
Guests: Rachel Maddow (host of Rachel Maddow Presents: Ultra), Michael Yarvitz (executive producer)
Date: December 28, 2023

Overview

This episode of All Of It centers on Emmy-winner Rachel Maddow and the acclaimed investigative podcast, Rachel Maddow Presents: Ultra. The podcast uncovers a little-remembered, yet deeply resonant, chapter of American history: the 1930s and ’40s movement in which far-right extremists—some with the backing of members of Congress—attempted to align the U.S. with Nazi Germany’s ideas and disrupt democracy from within. Through an engaging conversation with Maddow and executive producer Michael Yarvitz, the episode explores the origins of the series, the connections between radicalism and political power, the forgotten “heroes” who resisted, and the haunting relevance for contemporary American politics.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Seed of the Story: An Overlooked Plane Crash

• The podcast begins with a dramatic 1940 plane crash that killed Senator Ernest Lundin of Minnesota, federal agents, and others—a “deadliest civilian crash in U.S. history up until that point” ([02:00]).
• Lundin, as revealed in Ultra, used congressional mechanisms and Nazi-written propaganda to spread Hitler’s agenda domestically, in collusion with other politicians like Rep. Hamilton Fish ([03:37]).
• Alison Stewart highlights the historical stakes: “Well, it seems there was already an investigation underway. Also in that plane were federal agents and that senator, Mr. Lundin, was a Nazi sympathizing propaganda super spreader...” ([02:00]).

2. From Holocaust Denial to Fascist Plots: Following the Threads

• Maddow and Yarvitz initially set out to investigate the roots of American Holocaust denial in the post-war era, but unearthed a deeper, earlier story centered on the so-called “sedition trial” and the events that led to it ([05:35]).
• Yarvitz recalls their shift in focus: “It was this mysterious plane crash...that became this fascinating window into America right before World War II...with Ernest Lundin and his involvement with a paid agent of the Nazi government” ([06:32]).

3. The Political and Personal Fallout

• The episode delves into Senator Lundin’s state before the crash, evidenced primarily through his secretary Harriet Johnson’s testimony. Lundin was “an emotional basket case” because his Nazi connections were about to be exposed ([07:52]).
• The mystery, drama, and tension of the time are palpable, and both Maddow and Yarvitz stress their astonishment at how underreported these episodes are: “Did you know about this? I didn’t know about this. No. Did you know about this? I didn’t. And then you have this feeling like, wait a second. Does everybody know this?” (Maddow, [07:25]).

4. Radicalism and Power: Dangerous Proximity

• Maddow identifies two critical threads: “One of them is the crazy radicalism and the pro-Nazi, pro-German stuff that was going on...the other wire that touches to it that makes this incredible spark is power...” ([16:09]).
• The resonance for today is emphasized: “Radicalism is always with us. And people with power are always with us. And when they get close, that is when some crazy and very dangerous things can happen” ([16:09]).

5. Norma Lundin: ‘Stand By Your Man’ and Beyond

• After her husband’s death, Norma Lundin publicly defended him and attacked the press. But her later associations with far-right and anti-Semitic figures raise questions about her own political alignment ([10:58], [12:10]).
• Maddow speculates: “Her Nazi sympathies and sort of fascist ideology of her own makes it sort of hard to believe that she's outraged by any intimation that her husband had far right views” ([12:10]).

6. Who Were the Resistors?

• Maddow elaborates on the diverse “good guys”: Catholic activists opposing fascist Catholics, crusading journalists, FBI prosecutors, Jewish groups creating private spy rings, and even sympathetic German-American WWI veterans ([17:34]).
• Maddow expresses admiration: “The heroes are forgotten by name. But they're everywhere in the story. I felt, I mean, by the end of it, I was half in love with all of them” ([17:34]).

7. Investigative Process and Keeping Focus

• Both Maddow and Yarvitz grappled with narrative choices, striving to present a full, unvarnished truth, not just the triumphalist version of WWII history ([14:03]).
• Yarvitz: “…the touchstone was always to try to help better understand that history. And in doing so, you know, seeing how it can instruct the moment that we are living in today” ([14:10]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On historical ignorance:

  • “Did you know about this? I didn’t know about this… This seems like something people should know.”
    —Rachel Maddow ([07:25])

• On radicalism and institutional power:

  • “You need to touch two wires together in order to make the spark here… when they get close, that is when some crazy and very dangerous things can happen.”
    —Rachel Maddow ([16:09])

• On the spectrum of resistance:

  • “The good guys are myriad… the heroes are forgotten by name. But they're everywhere in the story.”
    —Rachel Maddow ([17:34])

• On today’s relevance:

  • “I think that that is not a full history... there was a movement in this country that very much was sympathetic to the fascist cause and that was arming itself, and that had allies in Congress..."
    —Michael Yarvitz ([14:10])

Timestamps for Essential Segments

• Opening/episode theme and Maddow intro – [00:48]
• Historical plane crash, Lundin and Nazi alignment – [02:00]-[05:35]
• Origin of podcast & pivot from Holocaust denial – [05:35]-[07:25]
• Lundin’s mental state before crash, aftermath – [07:52]-[08:58]
• Norma Lundin’s defense and political activity – [10:58]-[13:38]
• Process, touchstone for podcast – [13:38]-[16:09]
• Dynamic between radicalism & power – [16:09]-[17:22]
• Unsung heroes who resisted – [17:34]-[18:48]

Conclusion

This episode delivers a captivating account of the making and meaning behind Rachel Maddow Presents: Ultra. Through newly uncovered accounts of Nazi infiltration, political radicalism, hidden resistance, and eerie historical parallels, Maddow and Yarvitz invite listeners to reconsider how “triumphant” American WWII history really is—and to recognize the ongoing threat of extremist movements when they intersect with political power. The conversation is both a history lesson and a cautionary tale, told with Maddow’s trademark clarity, wit, and sense of urgency.