Podcast Summary: ALL OF IT – "Rashid Johnson Leaves No Medium Uncovered to Pursue His Art"

Episode Overview In this episode of ALL OF IT, host Alison Stewart delves into the vibrant and multifaceted world of artist Rashid Johnson. Joined by Johnson himself and Naomi Beckwith, the Guggenheim Museum’s Deputy Director and Chief Curator, the conversation explores Johnson's extensive survey exhibition, "A Poem for Deep Thinkers," currently on display at the Guggenheim. The discussion navigates through Johnson's artistic journey, his relationship with the Guggenheim, the interplay between his work and music, and the thoughtful integration of performances within the exhibition space.

1. Introduction to the Exhibition

Alison Stewart opens the episode by highlighting the grand opening of Rashid Johnson’s exhibition at the Guggenheim. Titled "A Poem for Deep Thinkers," the survey showcases over 90 artworks spanning various mediums, including painting, mosaic, photography, sculpture, and film. The exhibition uniquely occupies the entire Rotunda of the museum, enhanced by hanging plants and live performances that contribute to a dynamic and evolving atmosphere.

Alison Stewart [00:37]:

"A Poem for Deep Thinkers opens today at the Guggenheim, occupying the entire Rotunda. You'll see works from as early as 1998... to more recent pieces like his Soul Painting series, and even work that was newly created this year."

2. The Challenge of a Mid-Career Survey

Rashid Johnson discusses the inherent challenges of a mid-career survey with Alison and Naomi Beckwith. He expresses concern that such retrospectives can act as a "stopping point" for artists, forcing them to reflect on and present their earlier, less evolved works alongside their mature creations.

Rashid Johnson [02:38]:

"The danger of it is that it often can feel like a stopping point for an artist... to stop, put your pencils down and look at what you did when you were in your early 20s."

Naomi Beckwith adds that the term "survey" was deliberately chosen over "retrospective" to emphasize that this exhibition marks a midpoint rather than an end, allowing Johnson's evolving narrative to continue.

Naomi Beckwith [03:49]:

"We were very careful to use the word survey, which is to say a retrospective implies an end. And we wanted to say this is not the end. This is really the midpoint."

3. Curating the Exhibition: Collaboration and Catalog Creation

The collaborative process between Johnson and Beckwith is highlighted, particularly their emphasis on the exhibition catalog. They aimed to create a catalog that not only showcases Johnson's visuals but also incorporates diverse voices and ideas that underpin his work.

Rashid Johnson [04:57]:

"We really started with the idea of how do you make a great book? And from there, we felt like the exhibition would evolve."

4. Engaging with the Guggenheim’s Rotunda

Johnson elaborates on his vision for utilizing the Guggenheim’s Rotunda, a space often perceived as complex due to Frank Lloyd Wright's architectural design. Instead of seeing the space as a challenge, Johnson embraces its unique angles and elements to enhance the emotional and soulful presence of his artwork.

Rashid Johnson [07:19]:

"The rotunda is a fascinating space... it's not a building you want to approach with a tape measure. It's a building you want to approach with a more soulful understanding of how you can occupy it and how your work kind of lives and sings in the space."

Naomi Beckwith concurs, noting Johnson's dedication to integrating his art with the architecture, ensuring that his pieces resonate within the living, dynamic environment of the Guggenheim.

Naomi Beckwith [08:48]:

"Rashid was so dedicated to dancing with the architecture... how do we make cogent some of the grains of ideas that were there during the younger days that are still here with Rashid's work in mind."

5. Highlighting Key Artworks

The conversation shifts to specific artworks featured in the exhibition. Naomi Beckwith describes "Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos," an outdoor sculpture that intertwines multiple layers of meaning, from references to hip hop and graphic design to commentary on violence and cultural symbols.

Naomi Beckwith [10:14]:

"Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos... it's a reference to Public Enemy... it's also a reference to printing culture, visual culture, and Jasper Johns."

Another significant piece, an extensive mosaic titled "Untitled," is discussed, showcasing Johnson's use of varied materials like ceramic tiles, glass, and bronze to create ethereal, floating figures that embody themes of spirituality and transcendence.

Naomi Beckwith [16:02]:

"It's broken shards of ceramic tiles that come together in the pattern of three figures... a symbol that arose in the Byzantine era and it was a symbol of the divine."

6. The Influence of Music on Artistic Practice

Johnson delves into the profound impact music has on his life and work. He traces his artistic inspirations from hip hop to jazz and rhythm and blues, illustrating how music serves as both a background and a driving force in his creative process.

Rashid Johnson [12:06]:

"Music is such an enormous part of my life... Public Enemy led me to jazz, and in some ways, jazz led me to rhythm and blues."

He shares a personal anecdote about his first encounter with Public Enemy, highlighting the transformative power of music in shaping his worldview and artistic direction.

Rashid Johnson [12:54]:

"The idea that music can become an anthem for how you live and is not necessarily only the background of your experience, but also kind of foregrounds your experience and lead you down different pathways."

7. The Significance of the Exhibition’s Title

The title "A Poem for Deep Thinkers" is inspired by Amiri Baraka’s work. Johnson explains how Baraka's poetry encapsulates the duality and depth of his own artistic objectives—balancing the ethereal and aesthetic with critical thought and contemplation.

Rashid Johnson [14:04]:

"Amiri Baraka is just a fascinating man through the transitions that he experienced in his life... captures the duality of my project... the idea of making a space for deep thinkers and a space for contemplation."

8. Interactive and Performative Elements

Beckwith outlines the interactive components of the exhibition, emphasizing the incorporation of a stage and piano within the garden setting. These elements facilitate performances, poetry readings, classes, and seminars, fostering a vibrant community engagement and making the exhibition a dynamic cultural hub.

Naomi Beckwith [24:07]:

"Inside the garden, there is also a piano where people can perform... we want the show to be a place for young people, that we want to see teenagers, youth in the space."

Johnson expresses pride in these initiatives, highlighting the museum's commitment to diversifying its audience and creating welcoming spaces for younger generations to engage with art.

Rashid Johnson [25:34]:

"This is something that I think is just really exciting and can be really fun... make this great invitation."

9. The Interplay of Written Word and Visual Arts

The discussion touches on the integration of literary elements within Johnson's sculptures. Books by influential thinkers and artists are incorporated into his works, symbolizing the weight and significance of written knowledge in shaping his artistic narrative.

Rashid Johnson [20:21]:

"The written... are kind of signs and signifiers because I couldn't unpack the content, you know, at a young age... as I got older, I became a really, you know, really a big reader and someone who continues to kind of pour through text, literary and critical."

Johnson recommends contemporary literature that aligns with his themes, underscoring the continuous dialogue between his visual art and literary influences.

Rashid Johnson [22:14]:

"If you're reading something now and you want something really contemporary, Danzi Senna, Color Television... it's incredible."

10. A Personal Reflection on Legacy and Transition

Towards the end of the conversation, Johnson shares his personal project, the film "Sanguine," which features himself, his father, and his son. The film encapsulates the themes of legacy, care, and the cyclical nature of life, emphasizing the interconnectedness of past, present, and future.

Rashid Johnson [28:22]:

"The film consists of myself, my father, and my son performing different acts of care and spending time together... the transition... where I'm both a father to a son and the son to a father."

Conclusion

Alison Stewart wraps up the episode by thanking Rashid Johnson and Naomi Beckwith for their insightful discussion. The episode not only provides an in-depth look into Rashid Johnson's artistic endeavors but also underscores the importance of community engagement and the enduring influence of cultural and intellectual exchanges in the art world.

Alison Stewart [29:36]:

"We're talking about the new survey of Johnson's work that is at the Guggenheim right now. Thanks for making the time to come and talk to us. We really appreciate it."

Notable Quotes:

• Rashid Johnson [02:38]:

  "There's this idea of that kind of equal footing, equal platforming of different versions of your evolution is complicated and in a lot of ways dangerous."

• Naomi Beckwith [03:49]:

  "We wanted to say this is not the end. This is really the midpoint."

• Rashid Johnson [12:06]:

  "Music is such an enormous part of my life... rhythm and blues."

• Rashid Johnson [14:04]:

  "Amiri Baraka... captures the duality of my project."

• Rashid Johnson [22:14]:

  "Danzi Senna, Color Television... it's incredible."

Final Thoughts This episode of ALL OF IT offers a comprehensive exploration of Rashid Johnson’s "A Poem for Deep Thinkers," highlighting the intricate balance between personal growth, artistic expression, and cultural commentary. Through thoughtful dialogue, Johnson and Beckwith illuminate the layers of meaning within the exhibition, inviting listeners to engage deeply with the art and the rich cultural contexts it embodies.