Recapping This Year's Cannes Film Festival

Summary

All Of It

Episode: Recapping This Year's Cannes Film Festival
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Kyle Buchanan, New York Times
Release Date: May 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of All Of It, Alison Stewart delves into the highlights of the 78th Cannes Film Festival with special guest Kyle Buchanan from the New York Times. The discussion covers standout films, notable directors and actors, the prestigious Palme d'Or award, and the unique atmosphere that makes Cannes a pinnacle event in the global cinema landscape.

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Overview of the Cannes Film Festival

Alison Stewart opens the conversation by setting the stage for Cannes, emphasizing its status as the "world's most glamorous film festival" and a launchpad for cinematic careers.

Kyle Buchanan ([02:10]): "It's kind of considered the world's biggest film festival, certainly the world's most glamorous film festival. You know, the images of people on those gigantic red steps leading up to the Palais. It's a gorgeous platform for excitement, glamour, all those things that you go to the movies for..."

He highlights the festival's role in spotlighting international talent and mentions that recent Palme d'Or winners have often gone on to become major contenders during the Oscars.

Kyle Buchanan ([02:54]): "The last several Palm winners have all gone on to be pretty major Oscar contenders..."

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Featured Films at Cannes

1. Highest to Lowest

Director: Spike Lee
Stars: Denzel Washington, Jeffrey Wright, A$AP Rocky
Genre: Crime Drama / Remake of Akira Kurosawa’s High and Low

Spike Lee returns to the Cannes stage with his fifth collaboration with Denzel Washington since Inside Man. The film is lauded for being "smart, hugely entertaining, and profound" without slipping into sentimentality.

• Plot Overview: Denzel Washington portrays David King, a music mogul whose son is kidnapped, mirroring the storyline of High and Low.

• Performance Highlights: A$AP Rocky takes on the role of the antagonist, showcasing a "freshness" that electrifies his interactions with Washington.

Alison Stewart ([04:10]): "Well, let's listen to a little bit of highest to lowest..."

Denzel Washington ([04:19]): "There's more to life than just making money. It's integrity. That's what you stand for..."

Kyle notes the vibrant chemistry between Washington and Rocky, adding a dynamic layer to the narrative.

2. Phoenician Game

Director: Roman Coppola
Stars: Benicio Del Toro, Tom Hanks, Scarlett Johansson, Riz Ahmed, Michael Cera
Genre: Drama / Wes Anderson-Inspired

"Phoenician Game" is described as a "remake" or homage to the stylings of Wes Anderson, featuring an ensemble cast navigating the complexities of a fictional country’s redevelopment.

• Plot Overview: Benicio Del Toro's character, Zsa Zsa Korda, a business mogul, attempts to rally other powerful figures to invest in Phoenicia's redevelopment, reminiscent of Roman Coppola’s reflections on his father’s ambitious projects.

Alison Stewart ([07:29]): "Let's listen to a little clip of the trailer for the Phoenician Game."

The film is praised for its "incredibly ornate production design" and unique storytelling techniques, including characters moving only at 90-degree angles.

3. Chronicles of Water

Director: Kristen Stewart
Stars: Imogen Poots
Genre: Drama / Autobiographical

Kristen Stewart makes her directorial debut with "Chronicles of Water," adapted from Lydia Yukhanovich's memoir. Stewart was deeply inspired by the story of a woman using swimming to overcome a traumatic childhood.

• Directorial Insights: Stewart expresses her passion for the project, emphasizing her role in shaping every aspect of the film.

Kyle Buchanan ([09:42]): "She's been obsessed with this story since she read it... she wanted to make this movie because it just spoke to her."

The film employs a montage-like narrative that mirrors Stewart's personal connection to the story.

4. Eleanor the Great

Director: Scarlett Johansson
Stars: June Squibb, Mia Threapleton
Genre: Comedy-Drama

Directed by Scarlett Johansson, "Eleanor the Great" follows a 95-year-old woman navigating life in New York City, leading to unexpected and heartfelt adventures.

• Plot Overview: Eleanor, portrayed by June Squibb, decides to move to New York City to live with her daughter, leading to a series of misadventures that blend humor with deeper societal themes.

June Squibb ([14:49]): "Taking a trip. Eleanor moving home, actually, to New York..."

The film received heartfelt standing ovations at Cannes, notably for featuring an elderly lead in a prominent role.

5. Die My Love

Director: Lynne Ramsey
Stars: Jennifer Lawrence, Robert Pattinson
Genre: Psychological Drama

"Die My Love" centers on Jennifer Lawrence's character, a new mother grappling with postpartum depression and personal turmoil.

• Performance Highlights: Lawrence delivers one of her most nuanced performances, capturing the emotional descent of her character with exceptional depth.

Kyle Buchanan ([18:18]): "Jennifer Lawrence just has this great one to one connection with the camera..."

Robert Pattinson co-stars, delivering a grounded performance that complements Lawrence's intensity, marking a significant step from his previous roles.

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Actors Turned Directors

The episode explores the trend of prominent actors transitioning into directing roles, using Kristen Stewart and Scarlett Johansson as prime examples. Both directors have chosen not to star in their films, aiming to create projects that reflect their unique visions without overshadowing their roles behind the camera.

Kyle Buchanan ([11:53]): "One of them has a small role. But you know, I think that sometimes when we think of actors turned directors, we think vanity projects and these really weren't those."

This shift highlights a desire for creative control and storytelling that aligns closely with their personal artistic aspirations.

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Palme d'Or Winner: "It Was Just an Accident"

Director: Jafar Panahi
Genre: Drama / Political Thriller

The Palme d'Or was awarded to Iranian filmmaker Jafar Panahi for "It Was Just an Accident," a politically charged film produced clandestinely amid governmental restrictions.

• Plot Overview: The film explores the moral dilemma faced by a group of former prisoners who believe they have identified their torturer and must decide whether to seek revenge.

Kyle Buchanan ([21:41]): "It was just an accident... it's extremely smart taught moral drama..."

• Director’s Achievement: Panahi, despite being banned from filmmaking and having faced imprisonment, successfully crafted a film that resonates deeply without feeling constrained by external pressures.

Denzel Washington ([21:32] – likely a timestamp reference error, but likely in Panahi's context): "He threw his hands up in the air and then instead of getting out of his seat, he just sat there and took it in for about almost 20 full seconds..."

Panhai's subdued yet profound reaction to winning the Palme d'Or underscores the personal and professional hurdles he has overcome, making the victory deeply meaningful.

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Standing Ovations and Audience Reactions

Kyle Buchanan offers a critical perspective on the prevalence of lengthy standing ovations at Cannes, suggesting that they may not always accurately reflect a film's merit.

Kyle Buchanan ([20:33]): "No. I mean, sure... So you shouldn't completely believe what you read when you see those ovation headlines."

He explains that the mechanics of standing ovations—where audience members are individually acknowledged—can artificially extend applause duration, making it an unreliable indicator of genuine appreciation.

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Alison Stewart and Kyle Buchanan reflecting on the diverse range of films showcased at Cannes, the emergence of actor-directors, and the significant achievements of filmmakers like Jafar Panahi. The discussion highlights Cannes' enduring influence on the global film industry and its role in elevating both established and emerging talents.

Alison Stewart ([23:12]): "Kyle Buchanan writes for the New York Times. Thanks for walking us through the Cannes Film Festival."

Kyle Buchanan ([23:18]): "Anytime, Alison."

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This comprehensive recap offers listeners an insightful overview of the Cannes Film Festival's latest edition, capturing the essence of the films, the dynamics of the industry veterans and newcomers, and the cultural significance of the event.

Transcript

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you're here. On today's show, author Florence Knapp joins us to talk about her debut novel, the Names. We'll hear from Taffy Brutuser Akner about her novel Long Island Compromise, which just came out in paperback. And we'll talk with artist Nanette Carter about her new exhibit at the Montclair Art Museum. That's the plan. So let's get this started with the one and only Cannes film festival. For 12 days, cinema descends on the southern coast of France for the Cannes Film Festival, now in its 78th year. The films are judged in categories like cinematography, documentary and even student films. For the main competition, the president this year was French actress Juliette Binoche, along with nine other international filmmakers, including Halle Berry and Jeremy Strong. The big prize, the Palme d' or, went to an Iranian film, a kidnapping revenge movie called It Was Just an Accident. But there was so much more, big directors with big actors, big actors taking over their turns as directors, matchups of talent, brand new names. And on the final night, there was a blackout, a real little, a real life drama. Joining me right now is Kyle Buchanan from the New York Times. He was in Cannes. He's now in la. Hi, Kyle.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Allison.

[Alison Stewart]

So before we start talking about the movies, what makes the Cannes festival unique?

[Kyle Buchanan]

A lot. I mean, it's kind of considered the world's biggest film festival, certainly the world's most glamorous film festival. You know, the images of people on those gigantic red steps leading up to the Palais. It's a gorgeous platform for excitement, glamour, all those things that you go to the movies for, even if ironically, sometimes you're watching movies that are, you know, slow world cinema. But it's where careers are made and launched. The last several Palm winners have all gone on to be pretty major Oscar contenders, including last year's Anora. That's where it launched. It won the Palm, eventually won the best picture Oscar Wilde. So if you love movies at all, you always want to keep an eye on Ken.

[Alison Stewart]

All right. Let's dig into it. Let's talk about Big directors first, highest to lowest. It's a new Spike Lee joint. It stars Jeffrey Wright, A$AP Rocky, and Denzel Washington. It was described as a smart, hugely entertaining, and profound in a way that's anything but sentimental. All right, what's the plot? Who does Denzel play?

[Kyle Buchanan]

It's a remake of the Akira Kurosawa film High and Low. Denzel is playing a music mogul whose son is kidnapped.

[Alison Stewart]

And.

[Kyle Buchanan]

And it's the fifth film he's made with Spike Lee. It's honestly been a long time since the last one, Inside Man. So to see both of them together, to see an extremely spike film made with a big budget in New York, is part of the pleasure. But Also, also, also A$AP Rocky, kind of a little revelation in this movie. He's playing the bad guy. He's famously known as a rapper. He's married to Rihanna. Denzel is activated in their scenes together. I mean, Denzel has good chemistry with Jeffrey Wright and all these, but there's something about A$AP Rocky's freshness that has Denzel extremely plugged in. And it's electric to watch their scenes together.

[Alison Stewart]

So asap, Rocky, his charisma really translates to film.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You can tell that even Denzel is beguiled by that. And Denzel is one of the most charismatic stars we've got.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, let's listen to a little bit of highest to lowest. This is a little bit of Denzel's character, David King, so you can get a sense of what he's about.

[Denzel Washington]

There's more to life than just making money. It's integrity. That's what you stand for.

[Kyle Buchanan]

It's what you actually believe in.

[Denzel Washington]

Hey, man, do you believe in yourself? Do you believe you'll be successful? The hard times will come from the good times. The hard times will come from the success. The hard times will come from the money. And the mayhem follows you. So can you handle the mayhem? Can you handle the money? Can you handle the success? Can you handle the. Can you handle the lovers? Can you handle the memes? Can you handle everything that there is in between? That's the question I have for you. Can you handle it?

[Alison Stewart]

Is this character different from other things that we've seen Denzel do?

[Kyle Buchanan]

In a way, he's just having a lot of fun. You know, you can kind of tell that this is the Denzel who just came off the set of Gladiator 2 where he's having a ball. So even though the stakes are very life and death in this movie, just even listening to the cadences of that clip of Denzel that we heard. You can tell he's like exulting in this material. And I think that as Denzel has been sort of discussing potential retirement on the horizon, he wants to make sure that the projects he's taking, he's having a blast. And that's contagious in this movie.

[Alison Stewart]

And does it have the Spike Lee signature?

[Kyle Buchanan]

It has a million spikely signatures. But yes, that dolly zoom, you've absolutely got that. But then also the funniest thing to me is, you know, Spike Lee, obviously huge Knicks fan. There are, there are moments where the film stops dead in its tracks. So it can just be pro nix propaganda, anti Boston propaganda. At one point, someone looks straight into camera and like hurls an expletive at Boston just so he can keep that sports rivalry going. Like filmmaking is obviously important to Spike.

[Alison Stewart]

But secondary to basketball, that one's called highest to lowest. The Phoenician Game is about a globe trotting man who survives several assassination attempts. Benicio Del Toro plays that man. I couldn't get the name of his character right. How do you say it?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Zsa Jsa Corda.

[Alison Stewart]

Zsa Ja Corda. How would you describe Zsa Jsa Corda?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Zsaza Kurda is a business mogul. The premise of the movie is that he's trying to get all these other characters played by people like Tom Hanks, Scarlett Johansson, Riz Ahmed, to invest in this like boondoggle of a dream project where he would redevelop Phoenicia, a fictional country. And the interesting thing to me about this movie is it's co written by Roman Coppola. And if you consider this kind of like a lightly veiled idea as to what Roman Coppola might have felt when he watched his dad, Francis Ford Coppola, invest all of his money in a boondoggle called Megalopolis, which people might have seen last year or at least might have heard of if they didn't see it. It kind of takes on a new dimension that was. It's a fun way to watch this movie, which is in all other ways traditional. Wes Anderson.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's listen to a little clip of the trailer for the Phoenician Game.

[Kate Winslet]

At this moment, rescue workers are laboring to recover and identify the remains of Zsa Zsa Korda, international businessman, maverick in the fields of armaments and aviation, among the richest men in Europe. This was Korda's sixth recorded airplane crash. He is survived by 10 children, nine boys, one nun, his daughter Liesel, I've appointed you sole heir to my estate, which you may come into sooner rather than later.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Why? It's been six years since our last meeting.

[Denzel Washington]

I have my reasons.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Which are what?

[Denzel Washington]

My reasons.

[Kate Winslet]

I'm not saying.

[Alison Stewart]

Okay. Liesel is the daughter of Kate Winslet.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Yeah, she's pretty fantastic. Her name's Mia Threapleton. This is the first big thing that I've seen her in, and she's basically the second lead after Benicio Del Toro. Very impressive stage presence. Does not get blown off the screen by him whatsoever. And I'm interested to see where. Where she goes as an actress. And then the third main part of this trio is Michael Cera, which it's hard to imagine that he was never in a Wes Anderson film before this, and easy to imagine that he'll be in everyone going forward. They're a natural fit for each other.

[Alison Stewart]

I was gonna ask you, what's Wes Anderson Y about this film?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Literally everything.

[Alison Stewart]

Everything.

[Kyle Buchanan]

The incredibly ornate production design, the fact that people only move in 90 degree angles. They either cross straight in front of the camera or they go straight front and back. You know, I think that sort of ornate dollhouse diorama vibe is something that he's been increasingly leaning into. But I do think that, you know, around the margins of it, like, little bits of. Of real feeling managed to sort of leak out.

[Alison Stewart]

We are talking about the Cannes Film Festival with Kyle Buchanan, who covered it for the New York Times. Let's turn to actors turned directors. Chronology of Water. This is based on Lydia Yukonovich's memoir about a woman who used swimming to escape her childhood. Kristen Stewart is directing. You interviewed Kristen Stewart?

[Kyle Buchanan]

I did.

[Alison Stewart]

Why does she want to direct?

[Kyle Buchanan]

She's been obsessed with this story since she read it. She read this memoir, I think, about seven or eight years ago. And as she tells it, she got 40 pages in and immediately, like, tracked down the writer. She hadn't even finished this book and said, I need to make this movie. It just spoke to her. There's just something about this character. You know, it's a memoir again, so this is something that really happened to the writer. But, you know, this character who had a very traumatic childhood and then tries to put the pieces of her life back together as an adult out in the world. And it's an interesting approach that Kristen has taken to making this movie. You know, when I say putting the pieces of her life back together, it's told in that way. Like, it feels like all these small pieces, almost like a. Like a montage. And it's got a lot of attitude. It's got a lot of that feeling that you associate with Kristen Stewart herself, not just as an actress, but as, but also as a celebrity. So I'm really interested to see, you know, as is she, what is she going to be like now as a director. She's been wanting to make this movie, talking about trying to make this movie for several years. So where does she go from here?

[Alison Stewart]

She said that she thought that reviewers were being too nice.

[Kyle Buchanan]

She.

[Alison Stewart]

Right, or she.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Yeah, she, she. I asked her about that. I mean the day that I met her was the day after it premiered and she said it was the best day of her life that she'd finally gotten to show people this thing that she cared so much about. And she could just answer questions about that. Not as an actor for hire and can, but as someone who had their fingers, you know, their fingerprints on every aspect of this movie. But yeah, she said she was reading the letterboxd reviews, the critics reviews and she thought that she was making something that was a little more countercultural, a little more punk, that was a little aggressive. Honestly, she was ready for people to not like it and she was almost excited about that in a rebellious way to say, see, you don't like this like, you know, strong, tough female movie, that's indicative of something. It's indicative of the exact thing I'm pushing against. And then she didn't get it. So I don't know, maybe that's progress. Question mark, question mark.

[Alison Stewart]

Who stars in it?

[Kyle Buchanan]

The star is this British actress, Imogen Poots, who's fantastic. And actually it's sort of surprising, and I talked about this with Kristen, that she didn't want to star in it herself, but she's really interested in the feeling that she's had on set where you have that incredible dynamic, that incredible bond with your director. And she wanted to feel that as a director herself. And also, you know, I mean, we're about to talk about, I think another one of these debuts, but there were three debuts by actors who turned to directing and none of them star in their own movies. One of them has a small role. But you know, I think that sometimes when we think of actors turned directors, we think vanity projects and these really weren't those.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. Our next one is Eleanor the Great. It stars a 90something June Squibb who's heading to New York City for an adventure and strikes up a friendship with a 19 year old. And it's directed by Scarlett Johansson. What is at the heart of the friendship Between Eleanor and Nina, the 19 year old girl.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Well, okay, so when you describe it, Alyson, it seems like this fun, jaunty movie about like a 95 year old who gets to the city and has misadventures. The kind of wacky thing about this movie is, and I saw a tweet call it this. Dear Evan Hansen, for the Holocaust. Oh, I know you're talking about cute old 95 year old June Squibb pretending a little white lie about being a Holocaust survivor. And then that completely upturns and overwhelms her life. So I just wanted to see her have a good time in the city. And then she gets embroiled in this like insane, you know, farce that she's got to keep up, you know, a farce with some real, real world resonance to it. So it's an interesting movie with a lot that it's trying to juggle. Tonally and fascinating that it's made by Scarlett Johansson.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. She said in an interview, she read the script and she said, I immediately called my producing partner and was like, I can direct this. I know how to make it.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Did you see that? Yeah, I did. And it's an interesting thing again, because there's not really any. If you think of Kristen Stewart's actress mystique or her star mystique, you feel that in her movie, Scarlett's movie, it's a different kind of vibe. But what she also really wanted when she started making this movie, she said, the ideal version of this movie plays at Cannes and we get to watch June Squibb have her big Cannes premiere. And honestly, that was my favorite part of the whole experience, that after it was over, you have this, you know, incredibly lengthy standing ovations, as they often are in Cannes. And it's for 95 year old June Squibb, like that is not the traditional leading lady that you would see get feted at Cannes. So that was moving, honestly, to see.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, here's a clip from Eleanor the Great. This is Eleanor giving a little sass to her neighbor as she's leaving Florida for New York.

[June Squibb]

Taking a trip. Eleanor moving home, actually, to New York. You. Well, you know, my daughter's been begging me to move in with her for the longest time. You mean the kid who's hooked on Adderall or the one who doesn't talk to you? Nice knowing you, Clarice. Oh, say goodbye to Melvin for me.

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Oh.

[June Squibb]

Oh, we had such a wonderful time the other night. He's very strong. You're so full of Eleanor.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, it Sounds like June Squibb is having a blast in this role.

[Kyle Buchanan]

She definitely is. Even when she's lying about the Holocaust.

[Alison Stewart]

Good point. We are talking about the Cannes Film Festival with Kyle Buchanan, who covered it for the New York Times. Let's talk about awesome pairs. Eddington, Ari Aster directs. It's been described as a covert western. Two of my favorite actors. Joaquin Phoenix as a sheriff in Eddington. Pedro Pascal as Ted Garcia, a man running for mayor. You said that the film was polarizing. What, has people taken sides?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Well, I mean, honestly, just even the setting of this film, you know, Ari Aster has made horror movies like Midsommar and Hereditary. And in some ways this is his most unnerving movie ever because it takes place during COVID era 2020 with masks and, you know, conspiracy theory paranoia and all those things that I think we all hoped to move past and were plunged there. Again, Ari Aster sort of, you know, re situating this idea of the western in a place where the social fabric of our society really broke down and probably has not recovered. But yeah, it's really up to the viewer to decide if this is a milieu that you're anxious to revisit.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm curious about Joaquin Phoenix. Cause he's known for inhabiting his roles to the point of being scary. Sometimes for the best of the film and sometimes for the worst of the film. Does his portrayal as this conservative sheriff seem scary or just almost far too real?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Honestly, it's not as scary as you might think if you're reading that character description. You know, I think that the movie, it's interesting because it kind of tries to poke both sides. It's making fun of sort of liberal shibboleths and the sort of self serious attempts to dismantle privilege. And the teen activist characters in the movie are kind of going about things for the wrong reasons. And it's sort of also poking the conservative characters too. But I think one of the things that I heard from a lot of people in Cannes is that they felt that it went a little too easy on the conservative characters compared to the liberal ones. So if you're imagining this like, you know, dragon of a conservative sheriff that Joaquin's playing, it's not quite that it's a more sympathetic, even somewhat muted at times portrayal.

[Alison Stewart]

Die My Love stars Jennifer Lawrence and Robin Pattinson. A lot's been written about Jennifer Lawrence being in this role as a new mother dealing with postpartum depression. She's been working on this film for a really long time, right?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Yeah, I Had profiled her a couple years ago, and she said that this is a movie that she really desperately wanted to make. And she pursued the director, Lynne Ramsey, even when she got a no, saying no, you would be absolutely perfect for this. And whatever instincts she had were absolutely right. At least when it comes to her own performance. This is one of the best performances she's ever given. It's one of those things where, you know, Jennifer Lawrence just has this great one to one connection with the camera. She can appear to not be doing very much, but you understand innately what she is thinking and feeling. And that last part is so important because this is a. Yeah. A new mother who's feeling extremely adrift, stuck in a marriage that's going nowhere. And as she starts to spiral and lash out in increasingly upsetting ways, you're there on that journey with her. And it's not an easy journey, but it's the sort of journey where if any other actress but Jennifer Lawrence was playing this character, you might lose the thread. And instead you're just, you know, you're marveling at what she can do and what she is brave enough to let us see.

[Alison Stewart]

Does Robert Pattinson hang in?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Robert Pattinson hangs in. It's kind of interesting though. Cause I feel like for the last couple movies, Pattinson has kind of had this thing of I'm gonna do a wacky voice. I'm gonna do something that almost sort of subverts the idea of me being in this movie and this film Die My love really requires him to play a normal person for once. There were times when I thought to myself, is he, you know, frustrated by the fact that he just has to do a normal voice and seem like any type of guy? But it's good. I mean, it's a real sort of clash of the titans to see the two of them together. You know, these are two people who became extremely famous doing these young adult franchises, Twilight and the Hunger Games, and then really established themselves as bonafide actors. So to see them paired, it's a smart pairing.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, let's talk about the big winners. The film Sentimental value received a 19 minute standing ovation. It's the story of a filmmaker, his daughters, and a Hollywood starlet. So are we to believe the ovations, that that actually means something?

[Kyle Buchanan]

No. I mean, sure. Like, obviously, if people enjoy the movie, they're more moved to clap for it. People always ask me, how do those ovations go on so long? So what happens after a movie wraps is there is a cameraman in the audience with his camera trained on the actors and the director and their reactions are beamed up to the movie screen. And each person gets their moment in close up and they're applauded, then they move on to the next person. So already that's favoring a large ensemble. And it's also about how willing are people to milk this. You know, if the director's willing to milk it and not cut it off to make a speech, then it can go longer. If the actors start pairing up, it can go longer. And also, nobody really knows how to time these things. I've watched, I've watched other reporters time these things. There is such a widespread, such a wide discrepancy in how long these things last. So you shouldn't completely believe what you read when you see those ovation headlines.

[Alison Stewart]

The Palme d' or, the winner was, it was just an accident. The film was, I believe, filmed without permission by the Iranian government.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Yeah, yeah. So the director, Jafar Panahi, he's been imprisoned twice by the government, he's been formally barred from making films, but he still figures out ways to make them in secret, including this new one. And it's honestly astonishing what he's gotten away with because it's not, it doesn't feel like a hemmed in film at all, you know, and it's, it's extremely smart taught moral drama. It's about this group of formerly imprisoned Iranians who believe they found the man who used to torture them in prison. And there they have to decide are they going to stoop to his level, to exact revenge? Because they all want it. But, but does that make them as, as bad as, as, you know, as he is. And it's funny too, surprisingly, given, you know, that log line. So there's just, it's, it's a real full meal of a film. And it was amazing to see that win. You know, Panahi has obviously been through a lot. You know, I just gave you a hint of it. And when they called the name of his film as the winner of the Palme d' Or, I was moved by his reaction. He threw his hands up in the air and then instead of getting out of his seat, he just sat there and took it in for about almost 20 full seconds, just taking in the weight of winning this thing after it being so difficult for him to make a film like this in the first place. You know, people sometimes rush to the stage after they win something and it's all a whirlwind that they can't remember. So to see somebody say, no, I'm. I'm. I'm placing myself in this moment. I'm savoring this moment. You know, considering what he's been through, he's earned it.

[Alison Stewart]

Kyle Buchanan writes for the New York Times. Thanks for walking us through the Cannes Film Festival.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Anytime, Alison.

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