Podcast Summary: All Of It – "Red Flags to Spot Scammers, Grifters and Thieves"

Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Guest: Jonathan Walton – Investigative podcaster ("Queen of the Con"), author ("Anatomy of a Con Artist: The 14 Red Flags to Spot Scammers, Grifters, and Thieves")
Air Date: September 18, 2025

Overview

In this insightful episode, Alison Stewart interviews Jonathan Walton, a former reality TV producer and investigative podcaster who became a scam-busting expert after losing nearly $100,000 to a con artist. Walton unpacks why scams are so convincing, what makes us vulnerable, and offers practical advice drawn from both his personal misfortune and years of research into hundreds of scam cases. The episode combines stories, expert tips, and listener calls to map out the “red flags” everyone should look for to avoid becoming a scam victim.

Key Discussion Points & Segments

1. Jonathan Walton’s Personal Scam Story (00:50–06:20)

• Meeting the Con Artist: Walton shares how he met “Mayor Smith,” a neighbor who offered to help and quickly developed what felt like a deep friendship.
• "If I knew then what I know now, I could have spotted her in the first 10 minutes of meeting her."
  (Jonathan Walton, 02:33)
• Mayor Smith used props (e.g., a framed “Irish constitution”), fabricated dramatic origin stories, and fake digital correspondence to create a compelling, but false, persona.

2. Why Scams Work: The Psychology of the Con (03:47–06:20)

• Stories from Faraway Places: Con artists exploit the human tendency to accept unverifiable stories.
• Use of Technology: Scammers use emails and texts from fake personas or manipulated digital accounts to add legitimacy.
• Walton addresses his own assumption:
  "I always thought I could never get conned... but con artists like Marianne Smith, they're everywhere."
  (Jonathan Walton, 05:43)

3. The Painful Realization and Law Enforcement’s Response (06:20–07:42)

• Discovery often happens late, Walton notes:
  “Lies are like rats. When you spot one, it means there are a thousand others hiding.”
  (Jonathan Walton, 06:25)
• Police often dismiss scam cases unless the evidence is overwhelming; victims must present a strong, well-documented case.

4. Listener Call-In Stories: Spotting Red Flags in Action

• Eisha (Children’s Librarian) (08:11–09:45): Describes a “social engineering” scam that attempted to extract personal details for identity theft.
  Walton’s Analysis: “Drama and scarcity – scammers create a fake sense of urgency and emotional drama to throw you off.”

  • “Con artists don’t outsmart you... Con artists out-feel you.” (09:53)

• Victor (Cruise Scam) (11:39–12:54): Nearly fell for a fake cruise-line call; the scammer even used the name “Valerian Steel,” a nod to Game of Thrones.
  Walton explains: scammers double down if they sense a target, and warns that leaked personal information via data breaches makes everyone vulnerable.
  Actionable Tip: “Freeze your credit” at all three credit bureaus to prevent fraudulent accounts (13:02–15:37).

• Richard (Real Estate Fraud) (20:29–21:28): Someone tried to “sell” his vacant lot through hijacked online ads.

• Janine (Pig Butchering / Romance + Crypto Scam) (21:35–23:57): Lost $500,000 to a scammer on Words With Friends, combining romance and crypto investment scams.
  Explains “pig butchering”: gradually luring victims to invest more by faking returns.
  “They just wanted to help. That’s red flag number one.” (Jonathan Walton, 24:07)

• Carol (Computer Pop-Up Scam) (25:49–26:54): Receives a fake “tech support” warning, then is berated for not sharing financial info.

5. Key Red Flags According to Walton’s Book (Selected & Paraphrased)

• Helper Persona: Con artists offer to help or play the “hero” as an entry point.
• Overly Dramatic Stories & Urgency: Emotional emergencies designed to pressure for quick decisions.
• Stories from Faraway or Unverifiable Places: Excuses that can’t be checked easily.
• Use of Technology to Fabricate Reality: Texts, emails, or “proof” shown on a screen.
• TMI (Too Much Information): Scammer discloses fake personal secrets to evoke reciprocal trust (16:45–19:48).
• Beak Wetting: Early, small returns on “investments” to create false trust and encourage bigger risks.
• Secrecy, Isolation Tactics: Scammer requests secrecy, keeping the victim emotionally dependent and silent.
• Shame Targeting: Scammers rely on social stigma to keep victims quiet.
• Data Leaks Fuel Scams: Stolen data from corporate breaches is now widely traded, so no one is immune.

6. Advice for Reporting and Protecting Yourself (27:14–28:23)

• Collect Evidence:
  "Try and gather as much evidence as you can before you let the scammer know you know what’s going on... get them to repeat the scam in writing or on record." (Jonathan Walton, 27:14)
• Present a Strong Case: Prepare your report for law enforcement thoroughly, like pitching a TV show: it needs to be clear, organized, and persuasive.
• Legal Reality:
  “Taking money from someone based on a lie is grand theft or grand larceny. If you can prove it, that is a crime.” (Jonathan Walton, 27:14)

7. Jonathan Walton's Pursuit of Justice (28:26–29:25)

• Walton describes tracking and testifying against his own scammer, leading to two convictions (one in the US, one in Northern Ireland).
• “It took me eight years. Extraditing an American citizen is a tall order... but I kept pushing.” (Jonathan Walton, 28:26)

Notable Quotes

• “Con artists don’t outsmart you. Con artists out-feel you.”
  (Jonathan Walton, 09:53)

• “If I knew then what I know now, I could have spotted her in the first 10 minutes of meeting her.”
  (Jonathan Walton, 02:33)

• "Lies are like rats. When you spot one, it means there are a thousand others hiding."
  (Jonathan Walton, 06:25)

• "Freeze your credit. Because what scares me about this... is how did he know they were going on a cruise? That info is out there."
  (Jonathan Walton, 15:25)

• "[Con artists] use your emotion to scam you. Because when you’re making decisions based on emotion with your heart and not your head, you’re going to get scammed."
  (Jonathan Walton, 09:53)

Selected Timestamps of Major Segments

• 00:50: Introduction of Jonathan Walton & his story
• 03:47: How and why con artists create false origin stories
• 06:25: Realization and police response (“Lies are like rats...”)
• 09:53: Emotional manipulation & caller support (“You are not stupid...”)
• 13:02: Data breaches and advice to freeze credit
• 16:45: The TMI red flag
• 21:35: “Pig butchering” romance-crypto scam explained
• 24:07: Beak wetting and red flag #1 (“They just wanted to help…”)
• 27:14: Advice for scam reporting: gathering and presenting evidence
• 28:26: Jonathan’s pursuit of justice and extradition story

Key Takeaways

• Scammers rely far more on emotional manipulation than intelligence or sophistication.
• The major “red flags” can be spotted if you know what to look for: rushed urgency, unverifiable backstories, offers to help, requests for secrecy, or rapid over-sharing.
• Technology adds a layer of believability (fabricated texts, emails), but also enables scam scale.
• Data breaches have put nearly everyone’s information at risk.
• Reporting a scam requires preparation—gather and present evidence like building a case for trial.
• Freezing your credit is now basic personal security.
• Remember: kind, trusting people are most often targeted—and falling prey to a scam is NOT a sign of stupidity.

For more practical tips and Jonathan’s full list of red flags, his book "Anatomy of a Con Artist" is recommended as a supplement to this episode.