Remembering David Lynch

Summary

All Of It: Remembering David Lynch – Detailed Summary

Hosted by Alison Stewart and featuring film and TV critic Matt Zoller Seitz

Introduction

In the January 23, 2025 episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart on WNYC, the show pays tribute to the late David Lynch, a seminal figure in both television and film. The episode delves deep into Lynch’s enduring legacy, exploring his unique artistic vision, influence on the entertainment industry, collaborations, and the profound impact of his work on audiences and creators alike.

David Lynch’s Legacy and Influence

Matt Zoller Seitz on Lynch’s Unique Style and Influence

Matt Zoller Seitz, a distinguished film and TV critic, leads the conversation on David Lynch's unparalleled influence. Seitz emphasizes Lynch's ability to captivate a mainstream audience despite his avant-garde approach. He remarks, “There’s nobody who can be Lynchian except Lynch” (03:16), highlighting the difficulty in defining what "Lynchian" truly means—a testament to Lynch’s unique and eclectic style that melds surrealism, darkness, and unconventional humor.

Seitz further discusses Lynch's revolutionary impact on both television and film. He notes Lynch's role in shaping the modern television landscape through Twin Peaks, which became a cultural phenomenon by blending mystery, horror, and surreal storytelling. Seitz reflects, “...Lynch was absolutely sincere... an extension of his own personality and values” (05:21), underscoring how Lynch’s personal ethos permeated his creative works, making them resonate deeply with audiences.

Collaborators and Actors

Lynch’s Relationship with Actors and Collaborators

The episode explores Lynch's distinctive approach to casting and collaboration. Seitz points out, “He would use people like Robert Loggia, Bill Pullman, Patricia Arquette, Jack Nance, and Dean Stockwell...” (14:27), illustrating Lynch’s preference for actors who brought a unique, often off-kilter presence to his projects. This preference fostered a repertory-like relationship, similar to Wes Anderson’s ensemble casts, creating a cohesive and mutually understanding creative environment.

A notable highlight is Lynch's final on-screen appearance in Steven Spielberg's The Fabelmans, where he portrayed John Ford. Seitz marvels, “It's so great, the idea of David Lynch playing John Ford... he’s a hero. He’s an American cultural hero...” (12:00), symbolizing the mutual respect and artistic synergy between Lynch and his contemporaries.

Use of Music in Lynch’s Work

Collaboration with Angelo Badalamenti and Impact of Musical Choices

Music plays a pivotal role in Lynch’s storytelling, with his long-standing collaboration with composer Angelo Badalamenti being a focal point of discussion. Seitz recounts, “Lynch was able to essentially give Angelo Badalamenti a handful of words... and Badalamenti would come back with this completed piece of music that was perfect” (29:48). This seamless integration of music and narrative is exemplified in iconic moments like Laura Palmer’s theme from Twin Peaks, where the juxtaposition of Roy Orbison’s “In Dreams” with haunting visuals creates an unforgettable emotional resonance.

Seitz elaborates on the transformative power of Lynch’s musical choices, stating, “The use of music was great. He’s right up there with Scorsese and Spike Lee” (25:56). Lynch’s ability to manipulate soundscapes not only enhances the surreal atmosphere of his films but also leaves a lasting imprint on the audience’s perception of the narrative.

Listener Interactions and Questions

Addressing Audience Perspectives on Lynch’s Work

The episode incorporates listener feedback, addressing diverse viewpoints on Lynch’s portrayal of women and recommendations for newcomers to his filmography.

1. Treatment of Women in Lynch’s Work

   • A listener expressed concerns about the representation of women in Lynch’s films. Seitz responds thoughtfully, “It’s complicated... opinions differ as to that... I personally have found there are a number of people who appreciate the way he delved into trauma” (13:13). He emphasizes that Lynch’s work often explores deep and complex emotional landscapes, sometimes involving themes of trauma and violence, which can be interpreted in various ways.

2. Recommendations for Starting with Lynch’s Films

   • For those new to Lynch’s oeuvre, Seitz recommends starting with The Elephant Man over the more abstract Mulholland Drive, noting its emotional depth and accessible narrative. He states, “I think the Elephant Man has all of the hallmarks that we associate with David Lynch...” (20:41). This recommendation aims to provide newcomers with a foundational understanding of Lynch’s thematic and stylistic preoccupations.

Conclusion and Reflections on Lynch’s Impact

As the conversation draws to a close, Seitz reflects on the profound influence David Lynch had on his own career and the broader cultural landscape. He expresses a desire for Lynch to be more widely recognized and honored, proposing, “There should be parades in honor of him... he’s a hero. He’s an American cultural hero...” (30:20). Seitz envisions Lynch’s legacy continuing to grow, inspiring future generations of artists and audiences to explore the depths of surreal and emotionally charged storytelling.

Notable Quotes

• Matt Zoller Seitz: “David Lynch rearranges your brain” (00:35)
• Seitz on “Lynchian”: “There’s nobody who can be Lynchian except Lynch” (03:16)
• On Lynch’s Emotional Depth: “Lynch was absolutely sincere... an extension of his own personality and values” (05:21)
• On Collaboration with Badalamenti: “Lynch was able to essentially give Angelo Badalamenti a handful of words... and Badalamenti would come back with this completed piece of music that was perfect” (29:48)

Final Thoughts

All Of It masterfully encapsulates David Lynch’s multifaceted legacy through an engaging and insightful conversation with Matt Zoller Seitz. The episode not only honors Lynch’s contributions to culture and art but also invites listeners to reflect on the enigmatic and transformative nature of his work.

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Note: Timestamps correspond to the points in the transcript where the quoted statements were made.

Transcript

[David Fuerst]

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[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Listener supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of It. I'm David Fuerst in for Alison Stewart. Coming up on today's show, we'll brainstorm some hearty cold weather meals and we want to hear about your favorite recipes. We'll hear about a groundbreaking exhibit at the Whitney focused on the late choreographer Alvin Ailey. Plus we'll get caught up on the Oscar nominations which came out this morning. And hey, head to our Instagram at all of ITNYC for links to some of the conversations that we've had with some of the nominees. That's the plan. So let's get this started. And no, that is not all of it theme song. But if you had a TV between 1990 and 91, chances are you will recognize it as the theme to Twin Peaks, the seminal and surreal horror mystery series from the late David Lynch. Lynch passed away on Wednesday of last week. In 2024, he announced he'd been diagnosed with emphysema. He would have been 79 this past Monday. He leaves behind the legacy of a hugely influential artist, just as important to the modern television landscape as he was to the world of film. He was a surrealist who found broad appeal creating a hit TV show and several commercially and critically successful films. In an article about the 2017 Twin Peaks sequel, the return of film and TV critic and Pulitzer finalist Matt Zoller, Seitz opened with the line David lynch rearranges your brain following his death. Seitz has written for Vulture about the life and legacy of the director and about how his films themselves considered death. Matt Zoller Seitz joins us now. Welcome to all of it.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Thank you for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

And listeners, we'd love for you to get involved with this conversation too. What did David lynch mean to you? Do you remember the first Lyn that you watched? Do you have any stories or connections to his work? Call in 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. Or message us on socials at olivenyc. Matt, you're both a TV and a film critic. You've written books about Mad Men and Wes Anderson. As someone covering both worlds, what made David lynch special in each of them?

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Well, I Guess for starters, it seems in retrospect, remarkable to me that he ever found any kind of popular audience at all, let alone that there were various points where everybody knew his name, you know, different points in his career. And he's certainly one of a handful of, of filmmakers to have inspired an adjective, Lynchian, which I guess nobody can really quite agree on what that means. I mean, it seems to be sort of a catch all for unusual, weird or not what you expected, I guess. But there's nobody who can be Lynchian except Lynch. And unfortunately he's no longer with us. But he leaves an incredible body of work that.

[Alison Stewart]

Impossible to define that though. Lynchian.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Right.

[Alison Stewart]

It's like a surreal thing, a tone that puts you on edge. There's also humor and involved. It's. It's hard to define it.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Well, one of the things that I, I thought was most interesting about that was that the period when David Lint started to have a popular breakthrough, which I think was roughly the period from Blue Velvet through the end of the, the Twin Peaks, the original twin peaks, like 86 to 91, he was on the COVID of Time magazine. And you know, Twin Peaks, it's easy to forget was it was a legitimate hit. I mean, at least at the beginning it was until people realized that they weren't going to solve the mystery of Laura Palmer for quite some time and, and that it wasn't what interested the people who made the show, you know, But I, I think, you know what, what strikes me the most is that everybody understood that the David Lynch's name meant darkness, surrealism, violence, something disturbing, perhaps a kind of humor that was off balance and that you might laugh at, ironically. But they thought that he was making fun of innocence and light and goodness. And over time it became clear. No, no, he was absolutely sincere about that and it was an extension of his own personality and values.

[Alison Stewart]

Your 2017 article about the Return, the Twin Peaks sequel begins with that line, David lynch rearranges your brain. Did rearrange your brain and.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And you know, I think the first, the first movie of his that I saw was probably Eraserhead. No, actually I think it might have been the Elephant man on cable. And I wasn't aware of directors. I didn't think about film in that way. I was too young. But there was something different about that. Like it wasn't. I had seen biographies of famous historical figures before, but I'd never seen one like that. That felt like I was having a dream about a historical figure. And I think it was Blue Velvet, like a lot of other people probably would say this, that. That made me go, oh, this is a. This is a personality. This is a brand. This is a distinctive way of seeing the world in the manner of somebody like Hitchcock or Spielberg. And nobody was ever able to 100% capture what lynch was able to do. And I think he strikes beyond the rational mind. He's able to plug into that in just the way he tells a story or in the way that he tells around a story.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, the Oscar nominations are out this morning. And let me just touch on that for a moment. David lynch was nominated for several Academy Awards, but aside from an honorary award, he never won an Oscar. Did he care about things like this? And what are your thoughts about that?

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Well, I'm sure he cared very much about it as a way to get attention and from that funding. He always struggled to get funding for his movies. And, you know, except in that really brief window that I mentioned where he was hot. But, you know, he didn't do anything. The Twin Peaks third season was kind of a miracle that that happened. It was a weird confluence of events that allowed it to exist. And he didn't do anything after that. No feature films, no television shows. And the fact that somebody as major as him struggled with funding is really a really sad indictment of. Of the industry, such as it is. But I. I just felt like, you know, going back to your original thing about lynch rearranging your brain. Lynch was, for a lot of people and certainly for me, one of the first directors who, who. Who showed me, not just told me, but showed me that there was something to send beyond telling a story, that it wasn't just abc. You know, you start at the beginning, you go to the end, and everything is all wrapped up neatly. But the digressions, the side alleys, the dreams, the images that were lingered on for their own sake, the dissonant use of sound, the contrarian use of music, all of these things opened my mind and I'm sure a lot of other people's minds as well.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, if you'd like to join this conversation about David lynch, give us a call. 212-433-9692. That's. Excuse me, 212-433. WNYC or message at all of it. WNYC. And let's hear from Joshua, joining us from the Upper west side. Welcome to Olivet.

[Joshua]

Hey, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. I teach transcendental meditation. I've been teaching since 2005, which is the start of the David Lynch Foundation. And I feel that no conversation about David lynch and his legacy would be complete without some discussion of his interest and passion for bringing Transcendental Meditation to at risk groups. And I work for the David lynch foundation as well.

[Alison Stewart]

Thank you so much for, for adding that comment, Matt.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

I was going to say good for you. I mean that's, that's, that's terrific. And, and in fact, lynch, in an interview that he gave for Vulture about, gosh, I GUESS it was 2018 when his, his memoir came out, he talked about that and he often talked about that. And the idea that, you know, whether you get at it through Transcendental Meditation or through some other means, the idea that you kind of go beyond the surface, that you go beyond your set patterns and, and sort of open yourself up to the possibility of something else is really important, not just for artists, but for everyone. And, and I do believe that's true. And I think that he had, he had a really, really rare ability to access those things, to go beyond the, the often limiting lessons that are taught in the systematized way that we understand film school, such as it is. You know, he's a painter. He was a painter. He was always a painter, you know, at heart and a musician. And you know, what do non representational painting and music and multimedia installation, what do these things all have in common? They're not necessarily linear narrative based art forms. They're about experiences, sensations and emotions. And to introduce that into a format like feature filmmaking where there's this kind of tyranny of narrative, you know, and of neatness and of explaining things. He stood in opposition to all of that, but in a gentle kind of, kind of kidding, at times almost silly way.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, David lynch died at his home in Los Angeles, but he was born and grew up in Montana. What is important to know about where he came from, to understand him as a filmmaker?

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

I mean, that's about, you know, that's literally right in the middle of the coasts. I think probably if you measured the, the geography of it, truly, genuinely a middle American and also a little bit up north, you know, like, it's not like he was from, you know, Missouri or something. And people who come out of that, that world, particularly in, in the, the middle part of the century. Remember he was a kid in the 50s. That's a very, very different sensibility than you get if you say, grow up in a showbiz family, multi generational, that's based out of Hollywood, you know, or if you're the son of a stockbroker from New York City or something like that. Like he was just like an apple pie, boy scout type of mentality. And interestingly, so was Spielberg. And you know, we think of them as being in opposition to each other, but I think they probably have more in common than we might think. But both of them were not. They were not creatures of the coast. They were not sophisticated as kids, although they later became that way. And I think that made them immune to a lot of the received wisdom about what made a good movie, what made a good TV show.

[Alison Stewart]

And wasn't David Lynch's final on screen appearance in a Steven Spielberg movie.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

It absolutely was. He played John Ford, which I just think is so.

[Alison Stewart]

Just in the fablements.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Yes, in the Fabelmans and John Ford, like there's a John Ford. There's a direct line from John Ford to Steven Spielberg. And Spielberg in some ways is maybe the last living major practitioner of that kind of classical narrative filmmaking that was exemplified by John Ford. And even his compositional sense is similar. David lynch is totally the opposite of them in a lot of ways, except maybe his interest in Americana to some degree. But it's just so great, the idea of David lynch playing John Ford. I can't even think of what would be the equivalent of like maybe John Cage playing Aaron Copland or something.

[Alison Stewart]

Interesting comparison. Well, we have a question for you. We're speaking with film and TV critic Matt Zoller Seitz and we have a text from someone saying, I've watched Twin Peaks multiple times over the years. I am a huge fan of David Lynch. However, I do find his treatment of women to be troubling and I have had to suspend my disbelief over the years. What is your take on his treatment of women?

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Well, you know, I don't want to speak for the entire human race here, but, you know, I would say it's complicated. And that to say that he was reductive or misogynistic or something is just not borne out by the evidence. And I have. You can't see it because this is radio, but I'm sitting in front of a bookcase. My partner and I have a bookstore called MCS Press. It's all arts books and we have a dedicated section to David Lynch. And a good number of these are not only about women and they're about feminist readings of his work. And many of them are written by women, female film scholars. And I think at the very least we could say that opinions differ as to that. I personally have found there are a number of people who are survivors of gender specific or sexual violence, who really appreciated the way that he delved into that kind of trauma, particularly in Twin Peaks, Fire Walk With Me, which was the feature film continuation of the original series. And I think there's something to be said for that. I think he certainly was on a lot firmer ground than, say, Hitchcock.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's take another call. Mario in Brooklyn. Welcome to all of it.

[Joshua]

Hi, Matt. I'd like to ask you about how David lynch used most, a lot of times, a troupe of actors in the same way as Wes Anderson, and how he may have influenced many directors by using people like Laura Dern over and over again. And he's used actors like Brad Douriflan, Jack Nance and Dean Stockwell even. And how that kind of important influence it was to have like a troupe.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Well, I think a lot of them, a lot of filmmakers assemble what are essentially repertory companies. You know, they're people who speak to them and that they're easy, they can communicate with easily, and so they tend to work with them again and again. You know, we mentioned John Ford. You know, John Ford certainly had a number of people that he went back to again and again, including John Wayne. So it's not unprecedented, but certainly the types of people that David lynch chose were very much plugged into his sensibility. There weren't a lot of cases where he used really big stars. He often seemed to gravitate towards people who were not quite big stars yet, and people who were either veteran character actors or had been stars at one point or on the verge of it. You know, he would use people like Robert Loggia, Bill Pullman, Patricia Arquette, Jack Nance, who was mentioned, and Dean Stockwell, you know, was like a kind of a quiet MVP in the early part of his career. It was always somebody who was a little off kilter, who didn't seem to have gotten the memo, whatever that was. Those. Those were the people he responded to. And McLaughlin and Dern, probably more any two lead actors. It seemed like he was communicating with them on an almost molecular level. I interviewed McLaughlin a few years ago, and he said that David lynch would direct him and say things like, more like the wind or. Or more Elvis or something like that, like.

[Alison Stewart]

Or Elvis, turn up the Elvis.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

And he would know. He would know. Just McLaughlin would just know. And he said that one of the most satisfying things that would happen when they were shooting was they would get done with a scene. And while they were setting up for the next scene, he and David lynch would go and stand next to each other, side by side. And not talk and just stand that way for like a minute. And he said it was really profound, peaceful feeling.

[Alison Stewart]

Wow. I mean, yeah. Kyle MacLachlan and Laura Dern actors he used a lot. And I have to mention Dennis Hopper, he did not become a regular performer in David lynch films, maybe because the character that he played in Blue Velvet was a one and done kind of a character, but one 100% revived his career.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, in fact, a lot of people, not just me, believe that Dennis Hopper's Academy Award nomination in 1986 for Hoosiers, well, certainly deserved, was actually a nomination for Blue Velvet, which was so scary that nobody even wanted to touch it.

[Alison Stewart]

We are speaking with film and TV critic Matt Zoller Seitz about David lynch, who died last Wednesday. We will continue this conversation in just a moment here on WNYC on all of it. And you can join the conversation. Here's that phone number once again. 212-433-9692. That's 212-433 WNYC. Be right back.

[David Fuerst]

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[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Do you have a car, truck, boat, motorcycle or RV that is no longer of use to you, no matter what shape it's in? You can donate it to WNYC even if it's 100 years old, donating is easy, the pickup is free and you'll get a tax deduction. Learn [e-mail] Car American TikTokers are hoping.

[Alison Stewart]

For a last minute reprieve for their favorite app ahead of the impending ban this weekend. But maybe they need the app more.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Than the app needs them. When TikTok was banned in India in 2020, there were 200 million Indian users on there.

[Alison Stewart]

Almost double, let's say, the amount of Americans on there. This is not their first rodeo. Don't miss this week's on the Media from wnyc. Find on the media wherever you get your podcasts. This is all of it on wnyc. I'm David Fuerst in for Alison Stewart. We're talking about David lynch with film and TV critic Matt Zoller Seitz. And we're gonna get to more of your phone calls and comments. And Matt, I wanna read this one. Someone texting in to say, I'm 55 years old and I completely missed the David lynch boat. As I was going through my teens and early adulthood. If I wanted to take a deep dive, what would be your suggestion as a place to start?

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Well, you know, it's funny, I've been asked that by a number of people since David lynch passed. And my impulse originally was to say Blue Velvet because that's where I really became aware of David lynch as David Lynch. But now I've changed that and I think I would say the Elephant Man. I think the Elephant man has all of the hallmarks that we associated with David lynch as a, as a stylist. You know, there's the dissonant sound, there's the unexpected use of music, there's the odd rhythms, like he gets into and out of a scene in places you wouldn't necessarily expect. It's in black and white. It's quite frightening and confusing at times. But there's this emotional, this deeply emotional backbone of a story of a, of a, of a man who doesn't fit into his society because of these physical attributes of his and who is exploited but who never loses his essential goodness and is a gentle soul, you know, and trying to survive in a harsh universe. And it's really, really moving. I think people who might not necessarily enjoy some of the harder edge stuff like say, Wild at Heart or Lost Highway, I think that's a good gateway. And I also think it's appropriate for kids, like not really young kids, but like 10 or 11. It could be their first adult Movie. And I don't mean adult in the way that people usually mean. I mean when I say an adult movie, I mean a movie that only adults would understand. I saw that when I was 10 or 11 and it made me realize that there was more to cinema than what I was allowed to see.

[Alison Stewart]

You saw that at 10, maybe 11 years. That's what made you a film critic right there.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

No, there were other ones before that, but certainly I think that might have been my first filming exposure to surrealism, actually.

[Alison Stewart]

And I'll throw out another recommendation here. Someone else texting in to say Mulholland Drive was his first David lynch film he saw and it sold him 100% my favorite film of all time. I've seen almost everything else he did and now feel that I have to see the last few films that I haven't says an absolute genius on another level.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Yeah, well, you know, anybody, if anybody, anybody who started David lynch with Mulholland Drive, I, I don't even know what to say. And that's like your first drink of alcohol, it's like moonshine brewed out in, you know, the, the hinterlands or something. Like the kind where, like in Looney Tunes where they take the sip at the bar and the cowboy's hat flips on top of his head. I mean, that's 100% uncut David lynch right there. And you know, the progression is really fascinating to me and I've written about this lynch, it's almost like there was like a bell curve of how responsive he was to the idea of giving people a linear narrative with relatable characters that they could latch onto. Like, he started out very much out of the mainstream and then that Blue Velvet early Twin Peaks period, he was about as accessible as he was ever going to get. And then after the failure of the Twin Peaks movie, I feel like with the exception of the Straight Story, which is a very sweet, it's his only G rated movie, he moved away from that and he became more and more aggressively abstract to the point where when he did season three of Twin Peaks, people who tuned in expecting like a nostalgia fest, you know, with fan service and lots of apple pie and with lots of cherry pie and coffee. Boy, were they confused. They didn't even know what they were saying the first couple of episodes. I mean, even I was going, what the hell? You know?

[Alison Stewart]

Well, Matt, I. To ask you a little bit more about sound and music and Gretchen. Unfortunately, we lost Gretchen. She was calling in from Jersey City, but she was talking about watching David lynch as a young 20 something, she says, the music moved me in a nostalgic way. His music and composition gave her nostalgia for a time that she didn't even experience.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Yeah, I certainly understand that. And you know, his movies were so strongly shaped by his childhood and adolescence in the 50s and early 60s. And as a result, you know, you get to a movie like particularly something like, well, Twin Peaks is an example, but so is Blue Velvet and Lost Highway. Really, all of them, they seem to be set in this time that is no time and this place that is no place. And the only time that he gets really super geographically specific in his later career is Los Angeles. He was very much a poet of Los Angeles and an interpreter of the idea of Los Angeles. But really every David lynch production takes place in dream space, right? Well, but the music, you know, I love them. The use of music was great. I mean, I think he's right up there with Scorsese and Spike Lee among modern film directors. And in that there's never an. He's never using the music in an obvious way. Like the fact that he uses something like Roy Orbison's in Dreams and Blue Velvet. And he has it being performed by Dean Stockwell singing into a work lamp. Well, Dennis Hopper's character is off to the side acting like he's squeaky from. And. And Dean Stockw, you know, I mean, he's like crying. He's so moved by this lip syncing. And there's no explanation of what this is about. You're just presented with it.

[Alison Stewart]

And it certainly changed our perception, changed the way we heard that song, if we saw that movie from that point forward.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Yes, exactly. I want to lock my doors now every time I hear it.

[Alison Stewart]

My goodness. Well, we have a call. Tom from Staten island also wants to talk about David lynch and his use of music. Hey, Tom.

[Joshua]

Yes, hello. I agree about the Roy Orbison song was very interesting. And at first Roy Orbison was somewhat confused, but then the juxtaposition of the song and the new visuals, it did reignite Roy Orbison's career. And so he did appreciate that. And in the age of mtv, he gave a different twist on, you know, non typical. I mean, you wouldn't pull that clip out of the film and make it an MTV rotation video. But it was very interesting and different. And at one point he said something about, you know, the lyrics of In Dreams are. You can interpret a dream a different way. And that's kind of how it was. A inexplicable video is interesting. Like you say Manson and Squeaky from. Most people wouldn't think of that. But lynch, lynch took Apple American Pie and made it a little bit, you know, surreal. So it was. Plus he had his own music and he always made an interesting soundscape for his films. It was a very important part of his films.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, at the risk of forcing Matt to lock his doors, let's hear a little bit of Roy Morbison in Dreams right now.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

A candy colored clown they call the Sandman Tiptoes to my room every night Just a sprinkle stardust and a whisper Go to sleep, everything is all right I close my eyes Then I drift away into the magic night I softly sing.

[Alison Stewart]

Just a little bit of the great Roy Orbison right there. And since we're talking so much about the music, there's so many other things I want to get to. But I have to mention the long standing relationship that David lynch had with the composer Angelo Badalamenti.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Yeah, he boy was, you know, the death of Angelo Badalamente really, really hit him hard. And he talked about this. And that was another case where, like his relationships with people like Laura Dern and Kyle McLaughlin, there seemed to be an understanding that went beyond words. And the story that he tells about the music for Twin Peaks, how he was able to essentially give Angela Battlemente like a handful of words. It's like a couple of nouns and a verb. And Badalamente would come back with this completed piece of music that was perfect. And lynch was like, okay, no notes. You know, that's really unusual. And again, I keep going. It's weird that I keep going back to Spielberg. But I think about the story of how Spielberg and John Williams came up with a five note theme to Close Encounters, which was. It was originally seven notes. And John Williams invited him over to the house and just played seven note combinations for him. And he said, none of these are working. They said, well, why don't we try fewer notes? Let's do five. And he just played a combination after combination of five notes until finally they got to da da da da da. And Spielberg said, that's it. There's no way you can quantify that. You can't explain something like that. It's just two people that click for some reason. And lynch and Badalamente clicked. Absolutely.

[Alison Stewart]

And if you've never seen the clip of Badalamenti talking about the way they worked on music together, it's very, very widespread online. It's really incredible. I'll just read one more text. Someone writing in saying they Saw Eraserhead at Cinema Village in 1977. Blew me away. It falling asleep, having this dream, then waking up. It really impacted me. And by the way, they say Montana is not in the middle of the country.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Okay.

[Alison Stewart]

What else can you say? Okay. Any final thoughts? David lynch at this moment.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

I know you're playing that song you're playing In Dreams, that little section. Was that the acoustic, I think, right? Yeah. Really, really touched me. Really touched me. And you know, I think coming out of Blue Velvet for the first time when I was in high school, I don't think I ever could have imagined that David lynch would be somebody whose death would, would move me. And, and you know, lynch, like a lot of great American artists, was, was a, a prophet without honor in his own country. There were always people here who loved him. He had a small but adoring fan base. And there were people who maybe appreciated him because his name meant something, even if they didn't understand it. But like, there should be parades in, in honor of him. He should have memorials. You know, it should be the kind of thing where like, once they rebuild Los Angeles, the first thing they should do is have a tribute to David lynch and, and let him walk down Hollywood Boulevard. You know, it should be like, you know, he's a hero. He's an American cultural hero the likes of which we'd never seen before and that we're never going to see again. And boy, do I hope that his legend continues to grow and that more and more people appreciate him.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's finish with some music. This is Laura Palmer's theme from Twin Peaks, composed by Angelo Badalamente. Matt Zoller Seitz has written about David lynch for Vulture, written about the life and the legacy of the director. Thank you so much for joining us today.

[Matt Zoller Seitz]

Thank you for having me.

[David Fuerst]

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