Remembering Poet, Musican and 'Cosby Show' Actor Malcolm-Jamal Warner

Summary

All Of It Podcast Summary

Podcast Title: All Of It
Host: Alison Stewart
Episode Title: Remembering Poet, Musician, and 'Cosby Show' Actor Malcolm-Jamal Warner
Release Date: July 22, 2025
Duration: Approximately 22 minutes

---

Introduction and Tribute (00:23 - 02:18)

Alison Stewart opens the episode by acknowledging the tragic passing of Malcolm-Jamal Warner at the age of 54. Warner, best known for his role as Theo Huxtable on The Cosby Show, tragically drowned in Costa Rica while vacationing with his family. Stewart highlights Warner's multifaceted career, emphasizing his dedication to portraying Black Americans in nuanced and positive roles. Warner's creative prowess extended beyond acting; he was also a director, musician, and poet. Notably, in 2015, he won a Grammy alongside Robert Glasper Experiment in the traditional R&B category for the song "Jesus Children" (01:33).

Notable Quote:
"Warner aimed to take roles and to tell stories that depicted black Americans in fully fleshed out, complicated and positive ways." (00:45)

---

Warner's Journey with Poetry (02:18 - 08:08)

The conversation shifts to Warner's deep-rooted connection with poetry, tracing back to his childhood. Warner credits his father, who attended Lincoln University alongside luminaries like Gil Scott Heron and Langston Hughes, for immersing him in poetry from a young age. This early exposure instilled in him a profound appreciation for literary arts and honed his ability to use poetry as a medium for authentic self-expression, free from Hollywood's constraints.

Notable Quotes:
"I've been around poetry, like, my entire life." (02:36)
"My dad was really instrumental in not just, you know, the poetry and the arts, but making sure that I was connected to from whence I came." (04:15)

Warner recounts his first public poetry reading at the Juke Joint in Los Angeles, where he witnessed female poets predominantly critiquing men. This experience inspired him to write "My Woman," a poem exploring the dynamics of relationships and personal accountability. The positive reception from both male and female audiences marked a pivotal moment, affirming the universal resonance of his work (05:04 - 06:47).

Notable Quote:
"It was the first experience for me where realizing, oh, wow, what I'm writing actually resonates with other people." (06:35)

---

Personal and Emotional Outlet through Poetry (06:47 - 10:54)

Warner delves into how poetry serves as a vital emotional outlet, especially during challenging times. He discusses the pressures of the entertainment industry and the importance of diversifying his creative expressions to safeguard his well-being. Engaging in writing and music allows him to articulate aspects of himself that acting and directing do not fully capture. This multifaceted approach not only preserves his mental health but also enriches his artistic repertoire (06:52 - 08:08).

Notable Quote:
"The writing and the music, you know, being a bass player, it all allows me to express myself in ways that I can't as an actor or as a director." (07:14)

---

Creation of "Hiding in Plain View" (08:08 - 20:51)

Warner discusses his Grammy-nominated spoken word poetry album, Hiding in Plain View. Initially conceived during the COVID-19 lockdown, Warner took on the role of producer to gain confidence and experience independently. The album's completion was spurred by his Grammy nomination in the poetry category, driving him to finalize the project despite initial hesitations (08:23 - 10:54).

Notable Quote:
"This is a record for black boys, for black men, for black people, and for non-black people who have the foresight enough to see our self-healing as an invitation to explore their own necessary healing." (09:45)

Warner emphasizes the universal themes of the album, aiming to create a "love letter" not just to Black individuals but to all listeners. He shares excerpts from his tracks "Dope" and "Black Fist," highlighting the album's exploration of identity, societal expectations, and personal resilience.

Notable Quote:
"How we wear these masks and we hide parts of us because we're afraid someone else might not like us." (20:03)

---

Balancing Career and Personal Integrity (16:43 - 19:33)

In discussing the challenges of selective role acceptance, Warner reflects on his career choices post-The Cosby Show. He consciously avoided roles that perpetuated negative stereotypes, initially holding judgment against actors who accepted such parts. Over time, he recognized the financial realities that compel some to prioritize income over idealistic casting, fostering a more empathetic perspective (17:14 - 18:54).

Notable Quote:
"Everything that, you know, I have booked, you know, every role that I have done, have all made up for the work that I didn't get." (18:14)

Warner acknowledges his financial privilege, a realization that reinforces his gratitude and focus on his creative path without dwelling on others' choices or circumstances (18:54 - 19:33).

Notable Quote:
"It's in those moments that you also get very grateful for my path." (19:06)

---

Meaning Behind the Album Title (19:33 - 21:44)

Warner explains the dual significance of Hiding in Plain View. On one hand, it reflects his personal demeanor—being present without overtly asserting himself, much like a bass player who supports without seeking the spotlight. On the other hand, it symbolizes the universal human tendency to conceal aspects of oneself due to societal pressures or fear of judgment. This theme underscores the album's exploration of vulnerability, self-acceptance, and the courage to be authentic (19:43 - 20:51).

Notable Quote:
"The older I get, the more conscious I am of that and, you know, being more comfortable in my own skin and realizing that the more I can be comfortable in my skin and let my light shine, how much of an influence that can have on a young kid who's watching me." (20:20)

---

Closing and Final Thoughts (22:07 - 22:31)

The episode concludes with a brief clip from another track on the album, "Master Magicians," encapsulating the celebratory and empowering spirit of Warner's work. The episode wraps up without delving into advertisements or unrelated content, maintaining focus on honoring Warner's legacy and creative contributions.

---

Key Takeaways

• Multifaceted Talent: Malcolm-Jamal Warner was not only a beloved actor but also a talented director, musician, and poet, using various mediums to express his authentic voice.

• Cultural Impact: Warner dedicated his work to portraying Black Americans in complex and positive roles, challenging stereotypes and enriching cultural narratives.

• Personal Growth through Art: Engaging in poetry and music provided Warner with essential emotional outlets, enabling him to navigate the pressures of the entertainment industry while staying true to his artistic vision.

• Universal Themes: Hiding in Plain View transcends racial boundaries, addressing universal human experiences of vulnerability, self-acceptance, and the courage to be authentic.

• Empathy and Understanding: Warner's reflections on his career choices illustrate a balance between personal integrity and empathy towards others facing different circumstances.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• (00:45): "Warner aimed to take roles and to tell stories that depicted black Americans in fully fleshed out, complicated and positive ways."

• (02:36): "I've been around poetry, like, my entire life."

• (04:15): "My dad was really instrumental in not just, you know, the poetry and the arts, but making sure that I was connected to from whence I came."

• (06:35): "It was the first experience for me where realizing, oh, wow, what I'm writing actually resonates with other people."

• (07:14): "The writing and the music, you know, being a bass player, it all allows me to express myself in ways that I can't as an actor or as a director."

• (09:45): "This is a record for black boys, for black men, for black people, and for non-black people who have the foresight enough to see our self-healing as an invitation to explore their own necessary healing."

• (20:20): "The older I get, the more conscious I am of that and, you know, being more comfortable in my own skin and realizing that the more I can be comfortable in my skin and let my light shine, how much of an influence that can have on a young kid who's watching me."

---

Conclusion

This episode of All Of It serves as a heartfelt tribute to Malcolm-Jamal Warner, celebrating his diverse talents and enduring impact on culture. Through insightful discussions on his poetic journey, creative endeavors, and personal philosophies, the podcast paints a comprehensive portrait of a man dedicated to authentic self-expression and cultural enrichment. Warner's legacy as an artist and advocate continues to inspire, underscoring the profound connection between art, identity, and community.

Transcript

[Apple Card Advertisement]

This message comes from Apple card. Buy the iPhone 16 with Apple Card at Apple and get 3% daily cash back subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and [e-mail].

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on WNYC. Hi, I'm Alison Stewart. We want to acknowledge the passing of the great Malcolm Jamal Warner. At the age of 54, according to the AP, he drowned in Costa Rica while on vacation with his family. Best known for playing Theo Huxtable in the Cosby Show, Warner also brought his directing talents to the screen, where he aimed to take roles and to tell stories that depicted black Americans in fully fleshed out, complicated and positive ways. In addition to his film and TV work, Warner also looked to other mediums to share his thoughts, including music and poetry, which he said gave him some freedom to share his most authentic voice away from the gatekeepers and greenlighters of Hollywood. In 2015, Malcolm Jamal Warner won a Grammy with Robert Glasper Experiment in the traditional R and B category. Here he is with Glasper. Layla Hathaway from the song Jesus. Children.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Cries of young lives sing silly songs of laughter in the life after hurt ego and misguided pride which lead to lies the soul can no longer stand to bear. But I see 20 children standing there beaming bright and angel light as they take flight Together they smile the type sunlight that makes the devil backtrack into his lair. Yeah, these young souls are soothsayers, spiritual players, accelerator graduators of this game called life. Spitting 16s making Biggie break Dance and Frankie seem like Layla's dad with 10,000 other souls watching true love withhold nothing.

[Alison Stewart]

And then in 2022, his own album, Hiding in PL Plain View, was nominated for best spoken word poetry record. He joined me on the show to talk about it when that was released. And I started by asking him to talk about how poetry came to be a part of his life.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

I've been around poetry, like, my entire life. Like my. My dad went to Lincoln University with Gil Scott Heron and Brian Jackson, and my dad went to Lincoln because Langston went to Lincoln. So I was, you know, steeped in poetry, like, you know, in the womb when I was. I know one of my favorite books was Poems on the Life and Death of Malcolm X. And I remember taking. I would take that book to school and put it on, you know, my desk, and kids would tease me and they go, hey, what? Somebody wrote a book about you? Ha ha ha ha. And it occurred to me, like, wow, none of these people know who Malcolm X is. And if they are reading poetry, they're not reading poetry. As sophisticated as what I'm reading. And this was elementary school. Yeah. So my dad was really. Was really instrumental in not just, you know, the poetry and the arts, but making sure that I was connected to from whence I came. You know, I used to go see him on my, My, my summer vacations. And he had this, this thick book, Great American Negroes, and, you know, chapters on Langston, Richard Wright, Mary McLeod Bethune, Marian Anderson. And he would make me read these chapters and write book reports. And this is during my summer vacation where I'm, you know, I'm 6, 7, 8, you know, 9, 10 years old. And it wasn't until, you know, being in class and the Malcolm X book incident that it finally registered. Dad was doing this. He was filling me up with a connection with my history, and he had been doing it through the arts.

[Alison Stewart]

So. Interesting you say. That just made me remember when I was cleaning out my late mother's home, I found a book Langston Hughes signed to her when she was young. And it's just one of those moments. I know, right? It's an oh, wow moment. And it's just one of these prized possessions. And you realize, you know, to me, that is one of hearing Langston Hughes poetry. I know she always loved it, but I never knew that she actually had gotten a book signed by him.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

That's awesome. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

So what was the first poem that you shared that you had. You shared publicly?

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Wow. Oh, that's great. It wasn't until I was in my early 20s, I might have been like 23. It was the. Though I had always written poetry, this was the first time I was introduced to a venue where people were actually reading their poetry in front of other people. And I remember going to this place in la, it was called Juke Joint. And I remember Jada Pinkett was reading a poem, Tichina Arnold was reading a poem. And, you know, all these women were reading poems, but their poems were all male bashing poems. And my buddy and I, we were like, man, you know, we're gonna go write a piece and come back next week and do a piece. So I wrote this piece called My Woman, and it was about the woman side of how relationships go awry. Like, you know, we can be responsible for things as well. And I wrote the poem and I went and I did the poem. And you know, what was. I guess so just what hit me was, of course, all the guys are like, yeah, yeah, Right. But even the women were like, sometimes, yeah, you got a point there. And it was the first experience for me where realizing, oh, wow, what I'm writing actually resonates with other people. And it's not just the guys, because I'm saying guys point of view. It's like everyone is acknowledging what I consider my truth, but it seemed to be other people's truth as well.

[Alison Stewart]

What does writing a poem do for you, personally, emotionally?

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Oh, it's. It's an outlet that I didn't realize I needed until, again, I was in my mid-20s, and I was at a place where, you know, I had a couple experiences at that point that really hit home for me. The politics of this industry and recognizing, well, you know, if I keep all of my basket, all of my eggs in these two baskets, the acting and directing baskets, if that's all I do, this business is going to break my heart. And it was through writing that I realized I needed that outlet. Because the writing and the music, you know, being a bass player, it all allows me to express myself in ways that I can't as an actor or as a director. So I have all these avenues of expression available to me, and I literally need them all.

[Alison Stewart]

And fewer gatekeepers. Yes, right.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Yes. Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

Because you can write a poem, you can create a piece of music, you can put it online, and people who need it will find it.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Yeah. And it's unencumbered by any record label executive telling me what I should be doing.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Malcolm. Jamal Warner. The name of the album is Hiding in Plain View. So you've had other album before. Was there something particular you wanted to accomplish on this one or some particular goal or theme?

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Well, initially, it was. The goal I was trying to accomplish was from a music perspective. It was. I started the album during the pandemic, during the lockdown, and I wanted to. I wanted to put out a record that I produced myself. You know, of course I work with, you know, like, great producers, but, you know, I often found myself in situations where I may defer to another producer because they're more experienced at this than I am. So, of course their idea is going to be better than mine. And this time I was like, well, look, we're in a lockdown. You know, I've been, you know, doing, you know, production myself anyway, but let me, like, take it. I produce stuff for other poets, but I was like, let me. Let me take this time and. And do the production myself, just to kind of see and hear what that would sound like. Not that that's what I would want to do moving forward, but at least it would make me more confident as a producer when I'm working with other producers. So that's really what it. That had really been the, the intent. And I got close to finishing the record and then I got cold feet and I said, well, let me do a couple of more songs. And those songs never got done. And it was easy to let life get in the way of finishing it. So it wasn't until the Grammys opened up the poetry category that I was like, okay, I've got to finish this record. And as I was finishing the songs and putting the pieces together that I was going to do, I realized that just through all this time I was writing a record that was a love letter to what on the surface seems like it's a love letter just to black boys, but it's a love letter to everyone. You know, like I tell like what I say about the record is, you know, this is a record for black boys, for black men, for black people, and for non black people who have the foresight enough to see our self healing as an invitation to explore their own necessary healing. So to get responses from non black people who talk about how much of the album resonated with them makes me realize, ah, mission accomplished. You know, it's a universally themed album that everybody, everybody gets.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's listen to the track Dope, which I really like, which seems a bit autobiographical, a little bit confessional. Let's listen to track we'll talk about on the other side. This is Malcolm Jamal Warner.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Dope. Okay, so today's the day. Okay, okay. Today's the day. Okay, Dope today. Okay, so today, today's the day I declare my determination. I am done duck and dodging the dope description Dope. Hoping humming hymns of humility would keep me humble, when really I've just been hunkered down, hiding in the honeysuckled honeycomb of. I've done that. I've done that already. Often labeling myself as lazy but, you know, self deprecating homie. I've been hibernating honestly and in all honesty, having a hard time honestly rating myself as top notch because honestly, there will always be someone more on top who doesn't have the fame or the 18 letter name that came from a literary hustler from Lansing and a prodigy pianist from Pittsburgh who changed his name to Ahmad when he found God. Honestly, I find it odd to call myself God. I mean, because in all honesty, I've always feared the few People who counter with no, no, no, no, no. I could be in full bloom in a full room full of fans who I prefer to call friends. And I'd gravitate to the odd one at the end who I know specifically is there to hate. I mean, you don't really have to be famous to relate, right? How much love in your life have you overlooked and taken for granted simply because you couldn't stand it that the one you want to love from the most didn't love you the way you hoped? It's like dope, right? Addicted to what you can't have.

[Alison Stewart]

That's Malcolm Jamal Warner. How do you decide how personal to get in poetry that you know a lot of people are going to hear? Or maybe you don't have a choice. Maybe the voice just speaks through you and that's that.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

That's really what it is. You know, you sit down to write and, you know, you always hear writers talk about, oh, you know, God was just using me as the. As the instrument. I was just the vessel. And in a lot of cases, that really is the experience. It's like sitting down, letting the channel open and, you know, what does the universe want me to say or what's really on my heart? And if I'm, if I'm still, if I sit still long enough, it'll just come. And oftentimes it's easy to busy ourself with so many things because we're avoiding sitting still and dealing with some things that we need to deal with.

[Alison Stewart]

I think that's what happened for a lot of people during the pandemic. Yeah, they had no choice but to sit still and really think about their choices. Think about the choices their elected officials were making. Think about their choices at their workplace.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

And their home life.

[Alison Stewart]

Home life. That too.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Yeah, man.

[Alison Stewart]

Were you actually named after a piano prodigy, Ahmad Jamal?

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Yes. Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

Tell people about Imajamal.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

So Ima Jamal is a renowned jazz pianist and quite militant, you know, I mean, here's an instrumentalist where you can feel his militant vibes in his music.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Malcolm Jamal Warner. The name of the album is Hiding in Plainview. It is up for a Grammy. I want to play Black Fist. Beautiful. And it begins with this statement about hip hop's value as an art form. Whose voice is that?

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

That is Dr. Daniel Black. He is an award winning novelist. He's also the assistant professor of African American studies at Clark Atlanta.

[Alison Stewart]

And then after. His voice is a child's voice.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Yes, that's my daughter.

[Alison Stewart]

Now, is that a honey? Come on. In Dad's making a record. Or is she one of these people who's always sort of underfoot and in your stuff?

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

That was a honey. Come on in.

[Alison Stewart]

Okay.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

But I think because of that experience, now she's in my studio quite often. Touching stuff.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's hear a little bit. Black is beautiful.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Black is beautiful. Black is so beautiful. Sometimes my daughter sees spirits in her sleep I see boogeymen when I try I close my eyes and see images of step and fetch it and Amos and Andy Damn these visions that keep me awake at night Visions like airplanes from above Spraying the sky with ignorance like pesticide and the repressive residential red lines make it too hard to hide for too long and all these beautiful black bodies are scared because we don't know how bare we must become not to succumb to the heat of the hovering sun that keeps closing in and aren't you tired of running for shade? And aren't you tired of being hustled and played? And aren't we all tired of crying about how hard it is to be black in America? Even if it looks like we've got it made but freedom has its limits so here we are tear streaked and salt stained faces Traces of trauma and pain lace our DNA like our black pride is cut and laced with self hate and we still think it's dope Just like the music we're programmed to celebrate. Can you tell me the fates of a people who consciously take the bait and embrace the very traits placed upon them by their captors who by design are inclined to keep them believing they're second rate? I'll wait.

[Alison Stewart]

That is Malcolm Jamal Warner from the album Hiding in Plain View. I'm curious. You said earlier on about this industry possibly breaking your heart if you hadn't found the outlet of poetry. And a lot of that portion we picked talks about a lot of the imagery we see and a lot of the language that we used. As you were coming up as an actor and as a performer, how often did you have to say no to roles because you're like, I'm.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Yeah. I mean, that's been my whole career. Just, you know, coming from the experience of Cosby and everything that that show represented, I knew that I couldn't go from that and, you know, do work that would continue to perpetuate negative stereotypes of who we are. And for a long time I held judgment against actors who would take some of those roles that I turned down because they were, you know, they were. They were. They're going against the work we're trying to do. And then at some point, it occurred to me that everyone didn't necessarily have the financial wherewithal to turn work down. And it made me. Made me really grateful for that blessing and less judgmental because, you know, bills have to get paid. And it just made me. Well, let me just focus on my work to be done. Don't focus on what other people are doing and how they feed their kids. Let me focus on my path and my lane and be grateful for the blessings that I have to be able to do the work that I do. And I have to say that between the work that I've turned down, work that I have gone out for and didn't get, there have been longer stretches of unemployment than I may have liked. But at the same time, everything that, you know, I have booked, you know, every role that I have done, have all made up for the work that I didn't get.

[Alison Stewart]

That's. It's interesting. Do you remember that moment when you realized when you acknowledged your financial privilege? You know, it's sort of funny, sometimes we don't think about are privileged. Then something like, oh, snap.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Yeah, yeah, I have that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a constant reminder because it's. It's something that's easy to take for granted. And I think in being. Being thoughtful and being mindful, which is something that I'm always striving to be. You know, it's in those moments that you also get very grateful for my path.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Malcolm Jamal Warner. The name of the album is Hiding in Plain View. When you think about the title, what does it mean to you?

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

I think about two things. What you kind of hinted at the very beginning is kind of how I've always seen, how I kind of live my life kind of hiding in plain view. You know, I'm not the person who will walk into a room and be like, hey, I'm here. Just kind of hang out and. And just be there. Like, you know, I. I know my presence, I know my aura, I know my vibration, and I can just hang out and I'm just. I'm just there. It's kind of. It's also like. Like the temperament of a bass player, right? Like bases, you know, they can be up front, but, you know, for the most part, they'll lay back and kind of be the support. So there's that. And then also, you know, the other angle of Hiding in Plainview is something that we all do. How we wear these masks and we hide parts of us because we're afraid someone else might not like us.

[Alison Stewart]

Paul Orange Dunbar, masks.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Alison Stewart]

Just gotta throw it down.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

A poet.

[Alison Stewart]

Continue on, sir. Yes, yes.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

And actually, I'm sure I thought about that when I was writing his poem, when I was writing that piece. And, and, and that's just such a universal thing. I mean, you know, it's something that I've done, but I'm, you know, the older I get, the more conscious I am of that and, you know, being more comfortable in my own skin and realizing that the more I can be comfortable in my skin and let my light shine, how much of an influence that can have on a young kid who's watching me, who is hiding parts of him. But if you can see, let their light shine, they're comfortable in their skin. You know, you get exposed to those kind of people enough, then you kind of go, yeah, it can be safe. It can be a safe place to just be me.

[Alison Stewart]

That was my conversation with actor, poet and musician Malcolm Jamal Warner, who died at age of 54. We're talking about his Grammy nominated spoken word poetry album, Hiding in Plain View. Now let's go out on a track from the album. This is Master Magicians.

[Malcolm Jamal Warner]

Throw your hands in the air Wave them like just don't care, care Throw your hands in the air Wave them like you just don't care Throw your hands in the air Leave them like you just.

[Apple Card Advertisement]

Since WNYC's first broadcast in 1924, we've been dedicated to creating the kind of content we know the world needs. In addition to this award winning reporting, your sponsorship also supports inspiring storytelling and extraordinary music that is free and accessible to all. To get in touch and find out more, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.