Remembering Tabla Prodigy Zakir Hussain

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Remembering Tabla Prodigy Zakir Hussain"

Podcast Information:

• Title: All Of It
• Host: Alison Stewart
• Episode Title: Remembering Tabla Prodigy Zakir Hussain
• Release Date: December 19, 2024
• Description: A tribute to the legendary tabla maestro Zakir Hussain, exploring his illustrious career, his contributions to Indian classical music, and his influence on global musical collaborations.

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Introduction and Tribute

[00:17] Alison Stewart:
Alison Stewart opens the episode by acknowledging the recent losses in the music world, including the passing of Zakir Hussain due to chronic lung disease at age 73. She highlights Hussain's status as a child prodigy from Mumbai, lauded as the greatest tabla player of his generation. The introduction sets the stage for an in-depth conversation with Hussain, recorded in October 2024, just two months before his passing.

Notable Quote:

"2024 saw the loss of many musicians including Quincy Jones, Cissy Houston, Phil Les, Kris Kristofferson, and this past Sunday, the Grammy Award winning tabla player Zak, who passed away from chronic lung disease at the age of 73."
— Alison Stewart [00:17]

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Understanding the Tabla and Its Role in Music

[01:11] Zakir Hussain:
Hussain elaborates on the distinction between Western drummers and the tabla in Indian music. He explains that while Western drummers often serve as solo performers and band leaders, the tabla functions both as an accompanying instrument and as a solo instrument with a rich repertoire developed over 300 years. He emphasizes the tabla's versatility in harmonizing with various drum types and its ability to provide both harmonic and rhythmic elements.

Notable Quote:

"One thing about tabla is that it's an instrument that lends itself well to being able to fit in with technical abilities of any other drums... it allows for that harmonic experience as well as a rhythmic experience."
— Zakir Hussain [01:11]

[03:03] Zakir Hussain:
Discussing improvisation, Hussain draws parallels between Indian classical music and jazz. He notes that while jazz improvises over a set of chords, Indian music improvises over a single melodic raga, fostering a different yet complementary form of spontaneous creativity.

Notable Quote:

"In Indian music you set up a melody in a raga mode like say one chord. And then the whole song is based in that one chord more melodic form as opposed to a harmonic form."
— Zakir Hussain [03:03]

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Early Life and Musical Foundations

[03:35] Zakir Hussain:
Hussain recounts his early introduction to rhythm through the "kanakal," a traditional method where rhythmic patterns are sung and exchanged like a conversation. This foundational practice ingrained in him the importance of storytelling and emotional expression in music, distinguishing the tabla from other percussion instruments.

Notable Quote:

"We learn it as a language. And so when we play we think about it as something that we are telling. It's a story, it's a happening."
— Zakir Hussain [03:41]

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Grammy Achievements and Collaborations

[05:18] Alison Stewart:
Stewart congratulates Hussain on his three Grammy wins earlier in the year, acknowledging his ongoing influence and success in the global music scene.

[05:27] Zakir Hussain:
Hussain humbly attributes his success to collaborations with other talented musicians, mentioning his 50-year partnership with John McLaughlin in the band Shakti and his recent work with banjo virtuoso Bela Fleck.

Notable Quote:

"I ended up connecting with some incredible musicians and, and, and, and, and you ride on their shoulders."
— Zakir Hussain [05:27]

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Creating Award-Winning Music During the Pandemic

[07:10] Zakir Hussain:
Hussain shares the story behind the creation of the album that won the Best Global Music Album. Amid the pandemic, he and John McLaughlin exchanged musical ideas remotely, utilizing digital tools to collaborate. The project culminated in a live recording in Monte Carlo, encapsulating their five-decade-long musical journey.

Notable Quote:

"We were sitting in our own little homes dealing with the Pandemic and just kind of talking with each other, connecting... That's how the album was born."
— Zakir Hussain [07:10]

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Exploring Cultural Fusion in Music

[09:03] Zakir Hussain:
Discussing his Grammy-winning track "Pashto," Hussain explains its homage to his father's friend who blended Northern Indian folk music with Celtic influences. He highlights the historical cultural exchanges between British military musicians and Indian folk traditions, showcasing music's power to transcend social and political barriers.

Notable Quote:

"Even at that time, with such violence around us, there were these musicians who crossed over all those hindrances and made music together that had something positive to say."
— Zakir Hussain [09:03]

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The Art of Listening in Music

[10:28] Zakir Hussain:
Hussain emphasizes the critical role of active listening in musical improvisation. He shares an anecdote involving David Niven and Charlie Chaplin to illustrate that true musical conversation depends on attentive listening, allowing each musician to contribute meaningfully without overshadowing others.

Notable Quote:

"If you are not listening, you're not aware of the conversation. In improvised form of music, that is an essential part."
— Zakir Hussain [11:35]

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Mentorship and the Evolution of Music

[13:38] Zakir Hussain:
Highlighting the importance of tradition, Hussain observes that modern musicians adeptly blend ancestral musical forms with contemporary innovations. He praises the younger generation's confidence in maintaining traditional integrity while embracing progressive elements, fostering a dynamic and evolving musical landscape.

Notable Quote:

"The young people of today realize the importance of tradition... making it acceptable in present day or even in the future, and still maintaining the facade that has been laid out before us hundreds of years ago."
— Zakir Hussain [13:38]

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Learning from Younger Generations

[15:02] Zakir Hussain:
Hussain expresses gratitude for the support and inspiration drawn from younger musicians. Their fresh perspectives and enthusiasm reinforce his commitment to his craft, ensuring the continuity and relevance of Indian classical music.

Notable Quote:

"It gives me confidence to be able to keep doing what I'm doing and to have that support from the youngsters."
— Zakir Hussain [15:02]

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Cross-Cultural Collaborations in Film

[15:21] Alison Stewart:
Stewart introduces a segment featuring director Dev Patel discussing his collaboration with Hussain for the film "Monkey Man."

[15:41] Dev Patel:
Patel describes his inspiration to incorporate the tabla into the film, aiming to blend Indian classical music with cinematic storytelling. He envisions a dynamic interplay between Hussain's tabla and his own musical creations, enhancing the film's cultural depth.

Notable Quote:

"You're gonna speak to me with your instrument and help me tune mine. And, and, then it's gonna kind of explode and get bigger and bigger."
— Dev Patel [15:41]

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The Universality of Percussion and Modern Connectivity

[17:02] Zakir Hussain:
Hussain reflects on how modern technology fosters global musical exchanges, making diverse cultural expressions more accessible. He explains that instruments like the tabla can metaphorically connect with universally recognized elements, such as characters from popular culture, enhancing cross-cultural understanding and appreciation.

Notable Quote:

"The young people understand that the acceptance of what somebody does in Japan or in Indonesia or in India, in Africa, in any part of the world is now a natural progress in being able to speak it, speak that language in a universal form."
— Zakir Hussain [17:02]

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Legacy and Mentorship Through Generations

[18:26] Zakir Hussain:
Hussain discusses his long-term collaboration with Rahul Sharma's father, a pivotal mentor in his early career. Continuing this legacy, he works with Rahul Sharma, appreciating the fresh perspectives and challenges brought by younger musicians. This intergenerational collaboration fuels his creativity and keeps his musical journey vibrant.

Notable Quote:

"It keeps the fire burning and keeps things more present and more fun."
— Zakir Hussain [18:26]

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Continued Evolution and Adaptation

[19:47] Zakir Hussain:
Addressing the ever-evolving nature of music, Hussain acknowledges that today's musicians integrate diverse global influences, pushing the boundaries of traditional forms. This continuous innovation keeps him engaged and motivated, ensuring that his music remains relevant and dynamic.

Notable Quote:

"When I played with Ravi Shankar... things have changed since then. Sit down and stay current with so many layers of incredible harmonic influences... keeps me on my toes."
— Zakir Hussain [19:47]

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Closing Remarks and Live Performance

[21:13] Alison Stewart:
Stewart concludes the interview with heartfelt gratitude to Zakir Hussain, acknowledging his monumental contributions to music. She announces that listeners will soon hear Hussain's live performance in the WNYC studios.

[22:42] Alison Stewart:
The episode closes with Hussain's live performance of "Dunkir Hua" with Rahul Sharma, showcasing his enduring virtuosity and emotional depth.

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Performance Highlight: "Dunkir Hua" with Rahul Sharma

[23:52] Zakir Hussain Performing:
Hussain delivers a mesmerizing rendition of "Dunkir Hua," collaborating with Rahul Sharma. The performance exemplifies the seamless blend of tradition and innovation, capturing the essence of their musical synergy.

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Conclusion:

This episode of All Of It serves as a profound homage to Zakir Hussain, celebrating his legacy and exploring the intricate tapestry of Indian classical music. Through engaging discussions and evocative performances, Alison Stewart offers listeners an insightful glimpse into Hussain's artistic journey, his dedication to tradition, and his role in fostering global musical dialogues.

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Additional Resources:

• Performance Video: To watch Zakir Hussain's performance of "Dunkir Hua" with Rahul Sharma, visit newsounds.org.
• Related Interview: For more insights, explore John's interview with Zakir Hussain available on Newsounds.

Transcript

[WNYC Studios]

Listener support WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. 2024 saw the loss of many musicians including Quincy Jones, Cissy Houston, Phil Les, Kris Kristofferson, and this past Sunday, the Grammy Award winning tabla player Zak, who passed away from chronic lung disease at the age of 73. We talked to him in October of this year, just two months ago. He was a child prodigy, born in Mumbai in 1951 and considered the greatest tabla player of his generation. He brought the instrument and Indian classical music to the world. The New York Times described Hussain in his obituary as, quote, a tabla virtuoso who fused musical traditions. This fall, Zakir joined us in the studio while on tour following his three Grammy wins earlier this year. I started by asking him how he would explain the difference between tabla and the kind of drums Western audiences might be more familiar with.

[Zakir Hussain]

Well, to put it in a nutshell, I mean, you talk about drummers in the Western world, but then you have drummers in the Western world who are band leaders like Buddy Rich or somebody like that, and they play solos, they perform, and they are featured drummers who do things. And so where tawla fits in in Indian music is ex exactly that. It's not only an accompanying instrument, but also has a solo repertoire and a tradition that has existed for over 300 years. And so that therefore has developed an immense cache of repertoire that can be performed on the instrument. In fact, in India, it's normal to have a one hour or a 90 minute tabla concert or a rhythm concert where aficionados, thousand, two thousand people will come and sit there and listen to a concert, enjoy it, appreciate it. So that's how it works in Indian music. And one thing about tabla is that it's an instrument that lends itself well to being able to fit in with technical abilities of any other drums because of its muscular tradition and fingers like piano interacting together. You can be a bongo drum, you can be a conga drum, you can be a drum set drum and do all that and transpose all that information onto the tabla and provide a harmonic element as well, where the low drum acts as a bass and the high drum acts as a rhythm, like a bongo or something, but with a tone and a pitch. So therefore it allows for that harmonic experience as well as a rhythmic experience.

[Interviewer]

Is it good for improvising?

[Zakir Hussain]

Yeah, it's amazing for improvising because that's what Indian music is all about. I mean, you set up a Melody and a bridge and then you improvise a la jazz. The difference is in jazz you improvise over a set of chords called the foam. But in Indian music you set up a melody in a raga mode like say one chord. And and then the whole song is based in that one chord more melodic form as opposed to a harmonic form.

[Interviewer]

You don't have a tabla in front of you right now. I'm hoping you can give us a little demonstration with your voice. Have you heard of this? The kanakal?

[Zakir Hussain]

Oh yeah, the kanakal, which is what we first learn. I remember when I was 2 days old and I was brought home from the hospital and my father, I was handed to my dad. And the tradition is that the father would recite a prayer in the child's ear. The first words that the child should hear is that. And so my father took me in his arm and sang rhythms in my ear. Cause he's, you know, he was a rhythmist. And so my mother was of course very upset about it. But he said, but this is my prayer and this is what he's going to do. So after that the tradition was that he would just sing rhythms to me. And at the age of three or four when I started to Dirk, he would take me to a shrine that was near the house and we'd sit there and we'd sing rhythms with each other. And he would say, okay, here's one. And I had to reply to that and I had to make things up to be able to further the conversation, advance the conversation. And that's how it is. We learn it as a language. And so when we play we think about it as something that we are telling. It's a story, it's a happening. And so you try to induce the instrument into making emotional content into the performance. And so that's one of the advantages that tabla has over other percussion instruments.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Akir Hussain, he is a world renowned tabla player. Okay. Earlier this year you won three Grammys.

[Zakir Hussain]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Congratulations for sure. Thank you very much.

[Zakir Hussain]

I was lucky.

[Alison Stewart]

You were lucky.

[Zakir Hussain]

I mean you end up connecting with some incredible musicians and, and, and, and, and, and you ride on their shoulders. I was on this album with my friend of 50 years, John McLaughlin, who's a jazz guitarist. And we had, we formed a band in 1970s called Shakti and it didn't quite get that recognition but this year it won, you know, the best world music album award. And I made another album with Bela Fleck, the banjo.

[Alison Stewart]

We'll get There, we'll get there. First, let's hear a little bit from the album that won Best Global Music Album. This is a song bending the rule this moment.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay.

[Alison Stewart]

Awards aside, what. What were your goals for recording this record? That song?

[Zakir Hussain]

We were sitting in our own little homes dealing with the Pandemic and just kind of talking with each other, connecting. And we started sending music to each other, MP3 files or whatever. And then John started putting them together and he said, wait a minute, guys. I mean, this sounds like we could actually put all this together and make an album. And so that's how it began. And then we got seriously involved in it and we figured out softwares which would allow us to interact on zoom and audio movers and whatnot, different things. And so this is how the album was born. And then finally, when Pandemic was done, me and the other rhythmist, Selva, got together in Monte Carlo with John and laid down the rhythm track and to give it a live feel. And so that's how it came together. And also, I mean, while we were making an album, one of our friends called us and he said, hey, guys, do you realize by the time this is done and it comes out, it will be 50 years that you've been together? And then John and me, that is. And 50 years since it was first founded the band. So it felt just right. I mean, it was just perfect. And it allowed us the time we needed to be able to reminisce and put this together in the way so we could, you know, put a concoction of all those 50 years into this album. And that's what happened.

[Alison Stewart]

That's lovely. You also won best Global Music Performance for your contribution to a track called Pashto.

[Interviewer]

Who will we hear on this when we hear this?

[Zakir Hussain]

Well, Bela Fleck, Edgar Meyer, myself, and this Indian flautist, Rakesh Chaurasia. We were on the album. Pashto was something that was my nod to actually an old friend of my dad who was a keeper of this tradition, which actually kind of put together Indian, Northern Indian folk music with Celtic music.

[WNYC Studios]

That's interesting.

[Zakir Hussain]

It turns out that the British army had these musicians who played the bagpipes and whistles and whatnot, and they got together with the Northern Frontier musicians of that time 200 years ago and interacted and instruments were exchanged and so on. And in recent times, when I was growing up, there were still bands in India which played a very hybrid form of music with bagpipes and whistles and bowderons and so on and so forth. And so this gentleman was my father's dear friend. And so, just to give a nod to, even at that time, with such violence around us, there were these musicians who crossed over all those hindrances and made music together that had something positive to say. And so that's what Pashto was all about.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's listen. My guest is Saqir Hussain. He is a world renowned tabla player. We're talking about his Grammy wins, his current tour, his long career of collaborating and bringing all the sounds of India to our ears. You've talked about listening and the importance of listening to the musicians that you're playing with. What happens when you listen?

[Zakir Hussain]

You react more naturally and inject that which is important for the conversation. I must give you a little example of it. There was an actor called David Niven at one time in Hollywood, and he, as a young actor, released a movie. And so in those days, the tradition was to show the movie in private, in a party, on a screen in Hollywood, in somebody's home. So he did that, and there was everybody coming up to him and saying, oh, that was great, that was great, that was great. But there was this one senior actor who just sat in the corner without saying anything. Finally, David approached him and said, Mr. Chaplin, you have anything to say about this? And Mr. Chaplin said, young man, don't just stand there waiting for your turn to speak, learn to listen. So the question is, if you are not listening, you're not aware of the conversation. In improvised form of music, that is an essential part. Without listening, you're not able to put things together. And when someone like Miles Davis says too many notes, it basically means that you're just taking over so much time that you're invading someone else's space and not allowing for the conversation to be a collective. And so that's listening and the most important seed in the plant called improvisation.

[Interviewer]

You make a point of working with younger artists and musicians, kind of a mentor relationship. And as you're passing down the musical importance of Indian music to these younger.

[Alison Stewart]

Artists, what would you describe as the.

[Interviewer]

Most important innovation in the way music is made now?

[Zakir Hussain]

Well, technologically there has been great advances which has allowed for the music to be able to be projected in a more, I would say, present way than it would have been before. But having said that, the most important advance is that the young people of today realize the importance of tradition. They realize that it is actually possible to be able to ride on the shoulder of tradition and make it valid in the time of progress and make it acceptable in present day or even in the future, and still maintaining the facade that has been laid out before us hundreds of years ago. And so having that kind of confidence in that which you represent is, I think, the great. I wouldn't call it innovation, I would call it an acceptance level that the art form has reached where pride is expressed in being able to be associated with that which your forefathers represented than it ever was before.

[Interviewer]

What have you learned from the young folks?

[Zakir Hussain]

I have learned to appreciate that. And because of that, it gives me confidence to be able to keep doing what I'm doing and to have that support from the youngsters and knowing that for them, it is important that I do what I do.

[Alison Stewart]

Zakir, you have a film, you have a cameo in the film Monkey man, which came out earlier this year directed by Dev Patel. And we have a piece of an interview that Dev did talking about why he wanted you for this role and why he wanted the tabla for a particular scene. Let's hear.

[Dev Patel]

For me, it's like our cinema, our culture is rooted in music and, you know, Indian classical music. So it's kind of overlooked by the youth. And you know, my best friend Raghu, you know, he, he's an ardent Indian classical fan. I went to dinner with this man, Zakir. I was like, I went to dinner with this dude, he's like, you know who that is? That's Zakir Hussein. He's like the greatest to ever play the drums, the tabla ever. Like, he's one of one. And that led me down a path of just watching all of his videos. And then I reached out to him and I was like, look, I've, I've done this sequence. I want to do a musical kind of jazz thing. In India, they call it a jugglebandi, a call and answer. But you know, you, you tear up the drums and I'm gonna be on this dusty rice sack and you're gonna kind of be my Mr. Miyagi or R2D2. And you're gonna not speak, but you're gonna speak to me with your instrument and help me tune mine. And, and then it's gonna kind of explode and get bigger and bigger.

[Alison Stewart]

It's so interesting all the different cross cultural milestones that he mentioned in that clip. When you think about the tabla, why do you think music, maybe percussion, is good at bringing out these similarities in cross cultural reference, R2D2 to Indian classical music.

[Zakir Hussain]

It just harks to the time we live in. Everything is available to us at our fingertips. It's there. We step out of our home and there is a Cinemax, or we open up our computer and there's Netflix or whatever. And so we are able to keep abreast of what's happening at the other half of the world and on the other side of the planet and at the same time. And that's why the young people understand that the acceptance of what somebody does in Japan or in Indonesia or in India, in Africa, in any part of. Of the world is now a natural progress in being able to speak it, speak that language in a universal form. And then that's why you can associate tabla with an R2D2 or associate it with a character like Mr. Miyagi. And it will make total sense to have whoever is listening to that conversation and put two and two together.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Saqir Hussain. As we heard earlier, you're gonna be touring with Raul Sharma, whose father was.

[Interviewer]

A musician as well, as you have mentioned about your own father, but he's.

[Zakir Hussain]

Your friend as well. Yes, yes. I played for 40 years with Rahul Sharma's father. And in fact, I consider him as one of my mentor in my young age, helping me, you need to have some kind of a black boat to throw things in and be accepted. And he was that who allowed me to be me on stage and gain that confidence. And so, yes, we did play together so much. And his son Rahul, who's a worthy successor of his father's legacy. And so to have him there and to hear that music in a younger hand and through a younger mind and that musicology and that musicality, if I may, is a challenge for me to be able to find a new way, to be able to advance that conversation that I used to have 30 years ago with his father. So it's fun to be able to discover nooks and corners in my music, which Rahul and his way of playing that music requires for me to express through. And so that keeps the fire burning and keeps things more present and more fun.

[Interviewer]

You can still be challenged at this career, really?

[Zakir Hussain]

Yeah, I can be challenged because today's young musicians are not just married to this one way of looking at music. They have a universal understanding of music. An Indian musician playing a raga structure, for instance, is not only experiencing that raga in an Indian mode, but also finding similarities of what it is in Japan or what it is in Indonesia or what it is in a jazz concert or in an African ensemble, and tie it all together into giving a projection of that particular mode in a more worldly manner. And so for me it has now become like when I played with Ravi Shankar. My first concert in America was with Ravi Shankar at the Fillmore east in 1990. 1970. And things have changed since then. I mean sitar players today are much more, much more how would panoramic in their understanding of music. And so to have that challenge and hear the same music but with so many layers of incredible harmonic influences, something to react to is just keeps me, you know, on my toes.

[Alison Stewart]

Zakir, thank you so much for being here today. That was my conversation with the Grammy award winning musician Zakir Hussain. Considered the greatest tabloid player of his generation. He died on Sunday at the age of 73. Coming up, we'll hear him performing live in the WNYC studios. Stay with us.

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Claudine Gay is now gone.

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Much more to come.

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. We'll close this hour by hearing more of Zakir Hussain's playing. When he joined me in the WNYC studios earlier this fall, he also performed on New Sounds with John Shafer. You can find John's interview with Zakir and videos of the [e-mail] Here he is playing the song Dunkir Hua with Raul Sharma.

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