All Of It – Roxane Gay on Gun Ownership

Host: Alison Stewart, WNYC
Guest: Roxane Gay, writer and professor
Date: September 6, 2024

Overview

This episode features writer and professor Roxane Gay discussing her latest essay, “Stand You’d: A Black Feminist Reckoning with America’s Gun Problem.” Gay and Stewart explore the complexities of gun ownership, examining intersections of race, feminism, personal safety, and the contradictions that arise for marginalized people navigating America’s gun culture. The episode is timely, referencing a recent mass shooting in Georgia, and contemplates broader societal questions around who gun rights really serve, the discrepancies in legal protections, and what real safety means.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Meaning Behind “Stand You’d”

• Context: The essay’s title alludes to “stand your ground” laws and their origins in the Castle Doctrine.
• Gay’s Perspective: Such laws theoretically grant the right to protect oneself at home, but, in practice, legal self-defense isn’t applied equally across racial lines.
  • Quote: “A lot of NRA rhetoric is about protecting your family, but really it’s about protecting the white family. Because when black people try to protect themselves, all of a sudden it’s a problem.” — Roxane Gay (03:13)
  • References: Cites cases like Marissa Alexander and Philando Castile, legal gun owners harmed by the system.

2. Personal Motivations and Contradictions of Gun Ownership

• Safety vs. Principles: After receiving credible death threats, Gay decided to purchase a gun, though she acknowledges discomfort with the decision.
  • Quote: “For me, it was more about protection. After receiving quite a lot of death threats ... when people start trotting out pictures of your home ... I tend to take that seriously.” — Roxane Gay (04:49)
• On Responsibility: Gay stresses she keeps her firearm securely stored and only considered ownership due to the lack of children in her home and increased, specific threats.
• Ambivalence: Gay feels both “capitulation and empowerment.”
  • Quote: “On the one hand ... law enforcement can’t really do anything without probable cause ... and everything I stand for, everything I believe in, you know, I would love to believe that there’s a way that does not involve violence. But ... I’m not going to be a sitting duck.” — Roxane Gay (10:21)
• Does She Feel Safer?: Gay says the presence of the gun itself doesn't make her feel safer—her 9-pound maltipoo, Maximus, acts as her home’s warning system (11:00).

3. Cultural and Personal Roots in Gun Ownership

• Family Experience: Her brother Joel was an avid gun enthusiast, but she grew up in a household without firearms; Gay attributes Joel’s interest more to personal passion than regional culture (07:50).
  • Quote: “When he started collecting guns, we were just like, what is going on here? Because we’re not a gun family ... it was very curious.” — Roxane Gay (07:50)
• Gay’s Stance on Normalization: Cautions that normalizing civilian gun ownership makes violent events more likely and rejects inevitability arguments for mass shootings.

4. Gender, Race, and Shifting Demographics of Gun Owners

• Observations: Noted a significant increase in Black women arming themselves, challenging traditional notions of who is a “gun owner” (14:25).
• Caller Cheryl’s Insight: She suggests widespread Black and female gun licensing might prompt the NRA to embrace more restrictions.
  • Quote (Cheryl): “If it were droves of [Black people] applying for their license, I'm just wondering how that might affect how they look at how they regulate gun and gun usage.” (12:56)
• Historic Context: Gay points out the NRA has only supported restrictions when the size of gun-owning Black populations increased.

5. Intersection With Abortion Rights

• Insight: Gay draws a provocative contrast between gun rights and women’s autonomy.
  • Quote: “I have more rights as a gun owner than I do as my gender ... that is alarming.” — Roxane Gay (16:50)
• Critique of Permissiveness: Notes absurdities in U.S. gun regulation: “We have to do more rigorous things to get a pet, to get a car ... but not a gun.”

6. Reflections on Civil Rights, Self-Defense, and Nonviolence

• Historical Recap: The civil rights movement employed diverse strategies, from nonviolence (e.g., ACT UP) to armed self-defense (e.g., Black Panther Party).
  • Quote: “One of the key things that I think has endured is that we need to take multiple approaches to effecting real change ... we cannot rely on any one strategy.” — Roxane Gay (22:46)
• Community Strength: Ultimately, collective, not individual, power is most effective.

7. Media, Messaging, and Gendered Narratives

• Revisiting “Janie’s Got a Gun”: The song’s story of empowerment and revenge over sexual assault resonated with Gay as a young survivor, sparking thoughts on vigilante fantasy and gendered violence (06:06).
• BoJack Horseman Clip (24:36): Satirizes gender panic over armed women; Gay and Stewart discuss how it cleverly highlights America’s gender and gun paradoxes.
  • Quote: “I can’t believe this country hates women more than it loves guns.” — BoJack character, referenced by Gay (25:37)

8. Public Policy, Accountability, and Recent Events

• Recent Georgia Shooting: Gay supports prosecuting the adult who enabled teenage shooter access to a firearm.
  • Quote: “The culpability begins and ends with the father. The son is of course also responsible, but he was clearly raised in an environment where this sort of egregious behavior was enabled.” — Roxane Gay (19:44)

9. Audience Participation and Community Experience

• Calls: Listeners share experiences and views, ranging from cautious ownership for business protection to symbolic gun licensing as political action.
  • Example: Richard recalls an ACT UP proposal for queer people to mass-apply for gun licenses as protest (20:52).

10. Policy & Political Hopes

• Gay’s debate question: She would challenge Kamala Harris specifically on foreign policy and advocate for her to forge her own path (26:00).

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “A lot of NRA rhetoric is about protecting your family, but really it’s about protecting the white family.” — Roxane Gay (03:13)
• “There’s simply no way to responsibly consider owning a gun and not think about the potential repercussions.” — Roxane Gay (04:09)
• “For me, it was more about protection. After receiving quite a lot of death threats … when people start trotting out pictures of your home… I tend to take that seriously.” — Roxane Gay (04:49)
• "The gun doesn’t make me feel safer … what makes me feel safer [is] our dog, Maximus Toretto Blueberry Millman Gay… a ferocious maltipoo.” — Roxane Gay (11:00)
• "If it were droves of [Black people] applying for their license, I'm just wondering how that might affect how they [NRA] look at regulations." — Cheryl, caller (12:56)
• "I have more rights as a gun owner than I do as my gender … that is alarming." — Roxane Gay (16:50)
• "We have to do more rigorous things to get a pet, to get a car ... but not a gun." — Roxane Gay (17:28)
• "The culpability begins and ends with the father." — Roxane Gay (19:44)
• “I can’t believe this country hates women more than it loves guns.” — BoJack Horseman character, highlighted by Gay (25:37)
• “We need to take multiple approaches to effecting real change ... we cannot rely on any one strategy.” — Roxane Gay (22:46)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:37] Stand your ground laws, racial inequalities, essay title
• [04:09] Personal deliberation on gun ownership and safety
• [06:06] “Janie’s Got a Gun” and narratives of feminine revenge
• [07:50] Familial background and brother’s enthusiasm for firearms
• [10:21] Contradictory feelings: capitulation and empowerment
• [11:00] Personal safety: dogs vs. guns
• [14:25] Observing more Black women at gun ranges; shifting demographics
• [16:19] Gun rights vs. abortion rights
• [19:44] On charging adults for enabling youth-perpetrated shootings
• [22:46] Multiplicity of strategies in civil rights work
• [24:36] BoJack Horseman on gender, gun ownership, and U.S. society
• [26:00] Political question for Kamala Harris

Conclusion

Roxane Gay’s appearance on “All Of It” is a nuanced exploration of gun ownership’s personal and societal complexities, particularly as they relate to Black women in America. Gay’s candor around her own contradictions—empowerment and unease, personal security and systemic insecurity—makes the conversation resonant. In a moment of continuing crisis around guns and gun violence, the episode challenges listeners to rethink whose rights are protected, who gets to be safe, and how social movements can balance collective power with individual decisions.