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This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. When Thornton Wilder's play the Skin of Our teeth opened in 1942, it was a bold new work that was not afraid to challenge audiences. It won the Pulitzer Prize for drama. And now at the Public Theater, you can see a brand new adaptation of Wilder's play. And as a musical, that adaptation was led by Ethan Lipton, who wrote the music and lyrics to this new show. It's called the Seat of Our Pants. The story of Wilder's allegorical play remains the same. At the center is the Antrobus family. George and Maggie Antrobus have been married for, oh, thousands of years. Mrs. Antrobus is dedicated to her two children, Henry and Gladys. She's assisted by a maid, Lisa Byna, and she needs all the assistance she, she can get because when the play opens, it's the end of the world. Throughout the play, we see the Antrobus family navigate a series of crises, from moving sheets of ice to a torrential flood. It's a story of human failure and resilience. A funny story and a tragic one. And now it is set to great music. The Seat of Our Pants is running at the public theater through November 30th. And we are here for a treat in the studio because the cast is here for a special live in studio performance. Tony winner Ruthie Ann Miles, who plays Maggie Antrobus. Tony nominee Michaela diamond, who plays Lisa Bina. Tony nominee Damon Duano, who plays Henry Antrobus. And Ally Bonanno, you might remember her from Suffs. And multi instrumentalist Michael Lepore, who plays various characters throughout the show. I'm tired. But before we hear some music, we're gonna kick things off with Ethan Lipton, who wrote the music and lyrics for the show and adapted it from. From the original Thornton Wilder play. Ethan, it is nice to speak with you.
B
It is great to be here.
A
And we should also mention there's a fabulous, fabulous musicians here as well, an.
B
Amazing portion of our band.
A
What was your first exposure to Thornton Wilder?
B
I think I saw Our Town when I was a kid and later I remember seeing the Skin of Our Teeth in a college production, which I wasn't sure I totally got, which I think is an experience that a lot of people have with that play for the first time. And then, you know, I think I like so many great writers, you just revisit it over time and keep re encountering it and finding new things in it.
A
When did you decide this could be a musical?
B
I was approached by A guy named Jeremy McCarter at the Public about 12 years ago. And he was a huge Wilder fan. So much so that he is now the executor of the Wilder estate. And he knew my work as a songwriter and a playwright. And he reached out and said, would you have any interest in doing this? He was working at the Public at the time where I had a relationship. And I think he thought my sensibility might work with it. And I remembered the Play and I was like, God, isn't that that bonkers play? And then I read it again with like my grown up brain. And I was just so touched by it. You know, it's so. It's ambitious and epic and it's really playful about serious things. And I like to be playful about serious things. And I felt like I couldn't say no. This was a playground I wanted to play in.
A
How do you decide the kind of music that you would like to write for a play like that?
B
For me, I try to listen to the play. I mean, the play is so grand structurally, but it also so provocative about these human archetypes. And I knew that with the music I wanted to try to get at the individuals within the archetypes. I wanted to kind of create a little bit of intimacy with these people. And, you know, I'm such a weird, idiosyncratic songwriter. I don't notate music. I don't play any instruments. I kind of write songs like a five year old, which means I sing them until they have a form. And I do that dozens or hundreds of times, whatever it takes. And then I bring them to my collaborators. But really I was trying to listen to the play and find out what it wanted.
A
How did you figure out where to put a song in the play?
B
Well, sometimes I've musicalized text by Wilder, just sort of found the music that wanted to be with that text. And sometimes I've turned a single idea or line in the play into a song. And it's really kind of probing and pushing it around. When I started doing this adaptation, I was very polite with the play. You know, I didn't.
A
You're very polite with it. Yeah.
C
Yes.
B
Thornton Wilder, he's kind of a fancy guy. And I wanted to be respectful. And then at some point I was like, well, you can't be reverent and respectful with such an irreverent play. And then at that point I really just had to trust my own intuition about what spoke to me as a song and what kind of a song that wanted to be in Relationship to the other songs that were around it.
A
We're going to bring in Ruthie Ann Miles now, who stars as Mrs. Ms. Antrobus. So the Antrobus family is presented as a real family, but they're also part of a bigger symbolic story, a biblical story. They've been married for thousands of years. As we learn at the moment we meet her, what's important to Maggie Antrobus.
D
When we very first meet Mrs. Antrobus at the top of act one, her children are playing outside, and their maid has just let the fire go out. Now, we know that it's cold outside. Mr. Antrobus is not yet home, and we don't have any food or fire until he comes back home. So the thing on her mind is getting her children warm. What are we gonna eat tonight? And make sure when my husband comes home, he's not in a bad mood. So we have to, collectively, as a family, get together, be good. We're gonna put our best faces on for dad.
A
She has an interesting relationship with her children. How would you describe it?
D
Mrs. Antrobus is every mom all the time. We have to wear 10 different hats all the time. And so she has to, you know, listen to them and give them confidence and feed them and. Yes, yes, honey, of course. But also, you drive me absolutely crazy if you ask me that question one more time.
C
Ooh.
D
And if I don't, you know, I hope I don't raise my hand at you today, but she's constantly wearing these hats. And so, yeah, it's complicated, but it's also real life, isn't it?
A
Is she maternal?
D
She is maternal. I think she's maternal. But she's also. She's a woman. She's got. She needs quiet. She needs her mental health back. She needs sleep. And she. She would really love. The kids would just cooperate. They would be on my team. Kids.
A
Hey, Michael, can you come up to the microphone? This is Michael Lepore. We're gonna hear a song that happens in Act 1, and you are playing the telegram boy.
E
That is correct.
A
What have you come to communicate to the Antrobus home?
E
I've come to communicate a message from her husband, Mrs. Antrobus, which is actually not quite important or helpful to any of the world. Ending situation that is happening. But then before I head back out into the cold, I ask her for some advice on how to survive the end of the world.
A
And can you describe your outfit for us?
E
Imagine, just like a Wes Anderson yellow.
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And blue telegram boy.
E
Like, my suspenders are super high up and I have sweet little hat, and it's amazing.
A
So the song we're about to hear is Stuff It Down Inside. Ruthieann, she's the one advocating that we kind of stuff it down inside. Why does she think that is the best thing to do in this moment?
D
Because if you let the cap off at all, you're gonna blow. And the best way to keep everyone moving forward, everyone safe, everyone happy, everyone fed, is to you know what? Keep your emotions in check. Better yet, push it so far down, you don't even see it.
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This is Ruthie Ann Miles, Michaela diamond, and Michael Lepore with Stuff It Down Inside from the new musical, the Seat of our pants.
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Mrs. Antrobus. Can I ask you one other thing? I have two sons of my own. If the cold gets any worse, what should I do?
D
What does one do about anything these days? Just keep as warm as you can.
E
And gather all your fears. Fold them in a pie. Seal it with your tears and bake that thing on high. And when it's done, my dear boy, don't even bother looking for a knife. Just open up right here, boy. And eat the whole thing in one bite. And stuff it down inside. Stuff it down inside. Keep it from your children. Keep it from your bride. You could share it with them. But there's a reason God gave us pride. So all those awful feelings could have a safe place to hide. Pack all of your sorrow into a suitcase every night. Think about tomorrow. Is everybody gonna be all right? Find some hope to borrow.
A
From the.
E
Faintest little ray of light. Then grind it up real fine. Pour it in a glass of wine and stuff it down inside. Stuff it down inside. Stuff it down inside side. Keep it from your children, Keep it from your bride. I could share it with them. No, there's a reason God gave us pride. So all those scary feelings could have a cozy place to hide. If you're having trouble dealing, Just stuff it down inside.
A
You're hearing a live performance from the cast of the Seat of Our Pants. Mikael, let's bring you in. You play Sabina, the maid for the Antrobus family. You worked on another musical that was sort of out there. Sondheim's. Here we are. How did working on that project help you with this project?
F
Yeah, I do have an existential thing happening, I guess, in my career. Well, you know, Sondheim is, I would say, the best we have. And there's so much in his music that are clues or little roadmaps. You know, I was listening to Ethan talk about how he was trying to listen to the play. And I think sometimes that's what happens with Sondheim is you just. You have to listen to the music and let it inform something inside of you, and sometimes you have to push against that, and sometimes you float on that river. And that's something that happens with Ethan's music. For me, as soon as I heard his music, I was like, this is so special. It fits my voice in such a beautiful way. And I feel like there are moments when it's really informative and when it's actually the opposite. It's the subtext or the thing that's deep down in the core of me that I would never say aloud.
A
Your character frequently breaks the fourth wall telling us, I don't really understand what's going on in this play at all. What do you see as the importance of your relationship with the audience?
F
Well, yeah, I have a privileged relationship with the audience. I get to be their speaker. They're my jury. And that's one of the best parts of this whole experience for me, is that I get to have, you know, this kind of secret thing with them. And when they feel confused, I also feel confused. And I flat out say to them, don't try and understand this play, for the love of God. And I think I felt that way when I first read Skin of Our Teeth, I was like, I'm confused, too. And I think what's amazing about theater is you can see something and let it kind of wash over you, let it kind of enter your subconscious, and suddenly you're shifted somehow, and it's this secret way of getting to the heart of a person. And I think that's why I love my role so much, is because I can say, don't think about it. And then maybe they have a dream that night from a song or from an image they saw on stage, and they're moved.
A
That's an interesting point, Ethan, because so much of this play, it seems topical. I mean, you're talking about the climate crisis and hunger and refugees. How do you think Thornton Wilder's work speaks to our current moment?
B
He's so prescient in so many ways, and I think it's because he likes to look at our species from, like, 30,000ft away, you know, from. And reveal what is playful and tragic and hopeful about us. But he's always sort of taking this long view of us. And that's something that I like to do in my work, too. You know, I had a show about a guy whose job is outsourced to Mars. I'm looking for big metaphors and ways to kind of view myself and my fellow humans in our world. And he is really an expert at doing that and showing us ourselves.
A
We're having a special live performance from the new musical the Seat of Our Pants. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of it. You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. We are hearing a special live performance from the new musical the Seat of Our Pants. I'm speaking with the man behind the music, lyrics and adaptation, Ethan Lipton. Plus a very talented cast, Ruthie Ann Miles, Michaela Diamond Damon. Let's see if I get it right. Dono. Yes. Ally Bonino and Michael Lepore. The Seat of Our Pants runs at the public theater through November 30th. Okay, Ally, you are up. You play a few characters in the show. We're about to hear a song that comes from a fortune teller. It's the top. Act two. What's going on? The scene before we hear this song from the fortune teller.
G
Yeah, this song comes at a really fun moment. We're a little bit into Act 2, and it's a completely different setup from where we were in Act 1. Act 1, we are in the antrobus house. And Act 2, we are transported to a boardwalk that is simultaneously in, like, the 1920s, the 1950s, and sort of out of time altogether. And we are at a convention where we see the evolution of mammals in a very fun way, which I will not divulge here because come and see the show and see it for yourself. It's very fun, but it's kind of this. We have a big tone shift from where we end at Act 1 into Act 2, and time has passed. We have. We have moved on. We have come back stronger, and it's very jovial. The theme at the top of Act 2 is enjoying yourself. And we're at the boardwalk. There are games. There are shining sparkling lights everywhere. And then you have Esmeralda, the fortune teller, who is just this sort of walking void of truth and sort of like holding the mirror up to a society that wants to look anywhere but in that mirror.
A
This is Allie Bonino with the future.
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I can see the future on your faces. I can see what happens when you sleep. If I were you, I would avoid high places. Cause someday you're gonna wanna take a leap. Keep an eye on things in Kansas City. Your partner will deceive you on a deal. I describe your termites as a pity. But the termites Think your house is matzo meal? Watch out for your posture, ease upon the wine. Cirrhosis of the liver and sclerosis of the spine. Bright's disease. Shin splints. You're going to have 18 grandkids and they're all going to move in with you. Don't believe the charlatans of history. No one knows a thing about the past. Your own youth has now become a mystery after you swore you'd find a way to make it last. The future is the only game to count on and I'm the only one who knows the score. Someone here is gonna hurt your feelings. And someone else will wish they'd hurt them even more. Watch out for your posture, ease upon the wine. Cirrhosis of the liver and sclerosis of the spine. Bankruptcy, apoplexy. Death by regret, type Y. You'll try to be angry, but no, just a whimper and then finny. Watch out for your posture, ease upon the wine. Cirrhosis of the liver and sclerosis of the spine. Sclerosis. Very uncomfortable. And what, you ask, will happen to old Antrobus? Well, what becomes of any great man's rise? He'll huff and puff and puff and blow away from us Until a bolt of lightning strikes him from the skies. And the rains will wash it all away. And then the rains will wash it all away.
E
And then the rains will wash it all away.
G
And then the rains will come. And then the rains will come. You will see shameful things before the deluge. And some of you will say, let him drown, he's not worth saving. But you're wrong. Keep your doubts to yourself. Again there will be a narrow escape. The survival of few from destruction. From total destruction. And then the rains will come. And then the rain will come.
E
Rains will come.
G
And then the rains will come. And then the rains will wash it all away.
A
That was Ally Bonanno. Bonanno. Singing from the seat of our pants. It's so interesting in the show, Lethan. The show has deep roots in the Bible, from Noah's Ark to Cain and Abel. Let's talk about you coming up next. How did you think about composing music for the show while keeping the idea of the Bible in the back of your mind?
B
Oh, gosh, I don't know that I had the Bible in the back of my mind.
A
What was in the back of your mind then?
B
I was just trying to serve the play. You know, I like 20th century American music. And so the show has country and folk and rock and roll and jazz, Tin Pan Alley and Then a kind of smudge of a lot of different things in there. And then I spent about a year this past year with Dan Kluger, our orchestrat, turning the songs into the music that we now have in the show, trying to make sure that it felt dynamic from song to song, but also that it felt like a cohesive whole. And hopefully that that swath of music and genres would feel epic in the way that the play does and in the way that the Bible does, that it would give it a kind of scale.
A
At the microphone, we have Damon Dano.
B
Hello.
A
Plays Henry Antrobus. We learned that your character Henry used to go by the name Cain.
C
That's right.
A
He has some very violent tendencies.
C
Indeed, to the chagrin of my mother, father, I suppose.
A
What's going on with Henry internally?
C
That's a loaded question, Alison. I think what's going on with Henry internally is an absolute void of love. I think he just wants to be a part of the crew, part of the. You know, to be held and seen and cared for and nurtured like everyone else he sees happening in his world. It's too late, Mom. This is Ruthie Ann Miles hugging me from behind. Listeners can't tell. Little too late. Yeah, No, I think that, you know, as the potentially one of the resident antagonists of some of the drama that happens, I always think that to empathize with a character to, you know, find out what is in their heart and not sort of judge them as the bad guy or the guy who's evil or does murdery things, those are all very result sort of oriented in these ways. And actually, it's way more complicated than that, isn't it? Much like life, much like Ethan Lipton's brain. And so I think that he represents a lot of the intensity of life. You know, there is a yang to it all, isn't there? And so there has to be a Malvolio. There has to be someone that reminds us the other side of the coin is still the same coin, and so we're quick to shun. But I think he's there to say you can't necessarily get rid of it in life.
B
He's still part of the family.
C
Thank you, Ethan. I am part of the family.
A
You're gonna sing Cursed with Urges?
C
That's right.
A
When does this come on in the play?
C
Well, this happens in Atlantic City on the boardwalk, and boy Henry just wants to bust out, and he just can't. He lives his life in a proverbial straight jacket and just can't seem to get anything right. His natural tendency, though, is very passionate. And sometimes that means violent. Most of the time it means violent. And so when he's told not to follow his gut instincts, he's constantly raging against his own impulses. And he wants to be free and just live and honor his impulses just like everyone else. And so this is a moment where, much like in life, where we win imaginary arguments, you know, we sort of replay a moment and boy, we could have let him have it this way, you know, and like, everyone around us supports you. And it's like a really good. This is one of those moments in Henry's head where we see him really speaking from his heart.
A
Finally, this is Cursed With Urges from the new musical by the Seat of Our Pants.
E
Why can't I ever enjoy myself? Why must I always deny myself? Tell me why, tell me why I can't do what I like. You say I gotta control myself. You don't know what a power surge is.
C
You never seen a person cursed with urges.
E
I decide how to employ myself. I can't lie, I gotta be myself. When I die, I'm gonna free myself. What can I tell me why I can't take what I like. You say I gotta contain myself. You don't know what a power surge is.
C
You never seen a person cursed with urges.
E
I decide how to remain myself.
B
I go like.
E
Tell me why, tell me why I can't go where I like. You say I gotta control myself.
C
You don't know what a power surge is.
E
You never seen a person cursed with urges. I decide how to deploy myself.
B
My design, how to deploy my shine.
A
The Seat of Our Pants is running at the public theater through November 30th. Thanks to everybody for coming to the studio. We really appreciate it.
B
Thank you for having us, Allison.
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Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Alison Stewart
Date: November 5, 2025
Episode Theme:
This episode explores Seat of Our Pants, an ambitious new musical adaptation of Thornton Wilder’s absurdist classic The Skin of Our Teeth. Host Alison Stewart welcomes Ethan Lipton (music, lyrics, and adaptation), and the cast—including Ruthie Ann Miles, Michaela Diamond, Damon Daunno, Ally Bonanno, and Michael Lepore—for a lively conversation and live in-studio performances. The episode dives into the musical’s creative process, thematic resonance, and emotional heart, connecting Wilder’s allegory to our present moment via music, performance, and thoughtful dialogue.
In the Words of Michaela Diamond:
“Don’t try and understand this play, for the love of God … let it kind of wash over you, let it enter your subconscious, and suddenly you’re shifted somehow.” (13:48)
For those interested in contemporary musical theatre, adaptation, or the enduring power of allegory, this episode offers rich, first-hand perspectives and a warm invitation to see the story—and ourselves—with new eyes and open ears.