Solo Music From MUNA's Katie Gavin

Summary

All Of It: Solo Music From MUNA's Katie Gavin – Episode Summary

Release Date: April 23, 2025 | Host: Alison Stewart | Guest: Katie Gavin

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Introduction to Katie Gavin and Her Solo Journey

In this episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart, listeners are introduced to Katie Gavin, renowned as a member of the critically acclaimed band Muna. Alison highlights Katie's significant contributions to Muna, including co-writing the hit song "Silk Chiffon" and touring alongside prominent artists like Taylor Swift and Phoebe Bridgers. Transitioning to her solo career, Katie has released her debut album, "what a Relief," which Alison describes as "stripped back and has a confessional feel," focusing deeply on various facets of love—ranging from romantic highs and heartbreaks to the simple love of a dog and familial bonds (00:47).

Live Performance: "Casual Drug Use"

The episode features a live performance by Katie Gavin of her song "Casual Drug Use." The track delves into personal struggles with substance use, framed within the context of a 2016 breakup. Katie introduces the song by stating, “We're gonna do a song called 'Casual Drug Use.' Here we go” (01:49), delivering an emotionally charged performance that captures the complexity of coping mechanisms in relationships.

The Story Behind "Casual Drug Use"

Post-performance, Katie discusses the origins of "Casual Drug Use," revealing that it was initially intended as a Muna song but didn't fit within the band's album. She shares, “It kind of came back out on the table” when she embarked on her solo project (05:43). This decision was influenced by the pandemic, which provided the space and time for Katie to explore her individual artistic expressions alongside support from friends and collaborators.

Navigating the Pandemic and Record Label Changes

Katie reflects on Muna being dropped by RCA in 2020 and subsequently signing with Phoebe Bridgers' label. This period marked an existential crisis for the band, prompting introspection about their future and reaffirming their commitment to their music and community. Katie remarks, “We were very lucky that leaving a major label...refocused us as a band” (07:08), emphasizing the resilience and supportive network that helped them navigate this transition.

Exploring the Album Title: "what a Relief"

The title "what a Relief" encapsulates the theme of personal accountability and the relief that comes with recognizing one's own role in personal growth. Katie explains, “It's like... taking accountability for your own... flaws and things that you're working on is a relief” (07:53). This concept is woven throughout the album, embodying the therapeutic aspect of self-awareness and change.

Lilith Fair Influence and Community Collaboration

Discussing the Lilith Fair connection, Katie draws parallels between her album's vibe and the collaborative, introspective spirit of the original festival. She states, “There's so much introspection...seeing women and queer people...writing songs that are about their own...internal worlds” (08:39). This influence underscores the importance of community and collaboration in her creative process.

Collaborative Performances and Production Insights

The album features collaborations, including the song "As Good As It Gets," which features Nana Ajoa on vocals. Katie credits Phoebe Bridgers for initiating the duet and praises her for being a supportive A&R figure. Additionally, producer Tony Berg played a pivotal role in shaping the album’s sound, pushing Katie to explore beyond traditional songwriting structures. Katie shares, “He really pushes you to, like, make interesting choices that serve the song” (14:38), highlighting the collaborative effort in refining her music.

Songwriting: Muna vs. Solo Projects

When discussing the difference between writing for Muna and her solo work, Katie notes that while she continues to write with Muna in mind, solo projects allow her to explore “B sides” and personal expressions that may not align with the band's collective vision. She articulates, “These are, like, ultimately, these are B sides. These are Muna reject songs. And that's completely fine with me” (16:19). This distinction enables her to maintain a balance between her role in the band and her individual artistry.

Emotional Expression and Healing Through Music

Katie emphasizes the therapeutic role of songwriting in processing emotions. For instance, her song "Sweet Abby Girl" was written during a period of grief after adopting two senior dogs, one of whom passed away. She explains, “I wrote that song while I was really grieving...it really helps me to create stuff, share it, and then be able to talk about those feelings with other people” (17:14). This connection underscores the album's overarching theme of navigating and healing through personal experiences.

Venturing into Directing Music Videos

Expanding her creative repertoire, Katie has taken on directing music videos for her singles "Casual Drug Use" and "Aftertaste." Collaborating with photographer and director Alexa Vicious from Chicago, Katie describes the process as a means to realize her detailed visual fantasies. She remarks, “I was like...that's what directing kind of was for me” (18:30), showcasing her growth as a multifaceted artist.

Performing Solo: Intimacy and Connection

Katie discusses the nuances of performing solo, highlighting the intimate connection with the audience without the barrier of in-ear monitors. She shares, “I can just hear people talking to me. And we're having like a conversation the whole show” (19:29), illustrating how solo performances foster a more personal and engaging experience for both her and her audience.

Final Performance: "Inconsolable"

The episode concludes with Katie performing "Inconsolable," a song with a distinct country feel that explores themes of emotional resilience and vulnerability. The track received positive feedback from listeners, including a YouTube comment appreciating its heartfelt expression. Katie collaborated with Eric Radloff on this song, who contributed to the pre-chorus, enhancing its emotional depth. She notes, “A lot for me was, like, learning to trust my own instinct” (15:23), encapsulating the album’s journey of self-trust and authenticity.

Conclusion and Upcoming Events

Alison wraps up the episode by reminding listeners of Katie Gavin's upcoming performances, including her shows at Radio City Music Hall and a DJ set at the Market Hotel. The episode highlights Katie's evolution as an artist, her dedication to exploring personal and communal themes, and her commitment to connecting with her audience through honest and introspective music.

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Notable Quotes:

• “What a relief to know that some of this was my fault and I'm not a victim after all.” – Katie Gavin (07:53)
• “He really pushes you to, like, make interesting choices that serve the song.” – Katie Gavin on producer Tony Berg (14:38)
• “A lot for me was, like, learning to trust my own instinct.” – Katie Gavin (15:23)

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This episode of All Of It offers an in-depth look into Katie Gavin's transition from Muna to her solo career, exploring the emotional and creative processes that define her music. Through live performances, heartfelt interviews, and personal anecdotes, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of Katie's artistic journey and the profound themes that resonate throughout her album "what a Relief."

Transcript

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[WNYC Studios]

Listener supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Katie Gavin is best known as a member of the critically acclaimed band Muna. With Muna, Gavin wrote the hit song Silk Chiffon and she's toured with Taylor Swift and Phoebe Bridgers. But now Katy has struck out on her own. She released her debut solo album, what a Relief. The album is stripped back and has a confessional feel. The core of the project seems to be love. The highs of love, the lows of heartbreak, the love of a dog, the love of a mother for her daughter and the everyday romance of doing life together.

[Katie Gavin]

Even.

[Alison Stewart]

Even if every moment doesn't feel exciting. What a Relief is out now. Katie Gavin is performing in our area this week. Today and tomorrow she's opening for Lucy Dacus at Radio City Music Hall. You can also catch her DJ set tonight at the Market Hotel after the show. But first, we're going to hear from Katie performing live. She joined us last December to discuss the album and I'll let her introduce the first song we're going to hear.

[Katie Gavin]

We're gonna do a song called Casual Drug Use. Here we go.

[WNYC Studios]

She's got plastic flowers on her dashboard and her wardrobe in her trunk. I'm not sleeping tonight. I know, I know. I did not meet that last one on San Vicente. I was apprehensive about taking this trip. Some days you do your best. Some days you do what gets you out of bed. She was smiling and I was thinking it's a little unnerving how fast I fall back into fixing my issues with casual drug use. But I'm not gonna lose it cause we're not going to get wherever we're going right this moment. I know she had a reason that she wanted to go find a mountain. I don't feel any kind of need to her cause I've got a good one. I'm just happy she's around. When I start thinking it's a little unnerving how fast I fall back into fixing my issues with casual drug use. But I'm not gonna lose it. Cause we're not going to get wherever we're going right this mom and I. I feel like nothing is ruined I feel like nothing is. We were looking over across the freeway downtown. She said, sometimes it's harder to come back home than to come. And for some strange reason I found that very hysterical. And I thought maybe I'll change tomorrow, but if I don't, I, I, I feel like it's a little unnerving how fast I fall back into fixing with casual drug use. But I'm not going to lose it. Cuz we're not going to get wherever we're going right this moment. And I, I feel like nothing is ruined. I feel like nothing.

[Nana Ajoa]

That was Katie Gavin with a live performance. Casual drug use. So just in case the Internet's wrong, but I'm going to. That. That was actually written about a 2016 breakup.

[Katie Gavin]

Yeah, it was written while I was going through a 2016 breakup and it was written about some real life experiences related to that.

[Nana Ajoa]

Now you wrote the song. Was it for you to put on a solo album sometime, Somewhere, or was it for Muna?

[Katie Gavin]

No, actually the original version I made on a session on Ableton Live and it was like meant to be a Muna song and it just didn't fit in the world of that record. So I kind of kept it in my back pocket. And then when I realized I was making a solo record, it, it kind of came back out on the table.

[Nana Ajoa]

When did you know it was time to make a solo record?

[Katie Gavin]

It kind of happened during the Pandemic. I was talking to a few friends and songwriters of mine. It started with two friends of mine, Eric Radloff, who has a project called Okudoxage, Try and spell that if you can, and my friend Scott Heiner. And when the Pandemic hit, we just didn't have that much else to do. And they really loved these songs and said what if we just started arranging them? And then Muna got dropped in 2020 from RCA and we got resigned to Phoebe Bridger's label. And I was working on these songs, so I showed them to her and she said, I would like to put out this record as well.

[Nana Ajoa]

What did it feel like when you got dropped?

[Katie Gavin]

You know what, we were kind of already having an existential crisis as a band and just as like, like queers in our late 20s, I think, you know, as you do. But I think it really made us like refocus on why we do this and whether it felt right for us to keep going. And it also put us in touch with the fact that we have so many people in our community who believe in us. So we were very lucky that leaving a major label. We had other people who wanted to continue to support us and work with us, but I think, like, refocused us as a band.

[Nana Ajoa]

What does the title mean? What a relief.

[Katie Gavin]

What a relief. It's on. It's a song. It's in a song that we're not playing today called Keep Walking. But the larger line is, like, what a relief to know that some of this was my fault and I'm not a victim after all. It's. It's kind of this idea of, like, actually taking accountability for your own, like, flaws and things that you're working on is a relief because it means that you have agency and there's, like, possibility to change. But I also just thought it sounded good.

[Nana Ajoa]

What a relief.

[Katie Gavin]

What a relief.

[Nana Ajoa]

My guest is Katie Gav, and we're talking about her new album. What a relief. I read that this was Lilith Fair core. That's sort of the vibe of the record.

[Katie Gavin]

Yes.

[Nana Ajoa]

So when you think about Lilith Fair.

[Katie Gavin]

Yes.

[Nana Ajoa]

What adjectives would you use to describe the artist who played at Lilith Fair? I remember it well.

[Katie Gavin]

Yeah. I think they. I mean, I think they're my favorite musicians. And there's so much brilliant songwriting going on there. There's so much introspection. And I really think about the importance, for me of seeing women and queer people, like, seeing themselves as just the subjects in their own lives and writing songs that are about their own kind of, like, internal worlds. So. And I also think about the community. I remember, like, watching the documentary and hearing about the Indigo Girls bringing everybody together and trying to encourage, like, collaboration on the road. And that is. Has been really important to me as an artist and has, like, kept me going. So it's a good time. Yeah. Oh, my God, I wish I was there. We would like. I want to do it again. I think we should do it again.

[Nana Ajoa]

Why not? Yeah, why not? Is there any song from that period, that Lilith Faire period that really sings to you?

[Katie Gavin]

I think it would probably be closer to Fine. The Indigo Girl song is really important to me. I got to sing it with them at the Greek in September, which was amazing. And I also have to give a shout out to Sarah. Building a Mystery was like my. On Spotify wrapped. It was like, my top listened to song for, like, a couple of years. Yeah. I kind of just internally, I'm staying in that universe.

[Nana Ajoa]

Let's hear another song from your new album. What a relief. What are we gonna listen to?

[Katie Gavin]

We're gonna play a song called as Good As It Gets and featuring my Talented colleague Nana Ajoa on vocals here.

[Nana Ajoa]

This is Katie Gavin.

[WNYC Studios]

Do I disappoint you? Am I not what I seemed? I get disappointed too when love is.

[Katie Gavin]

Not what I dreamed.

[WNYC Studios]

You only understand.

[Katie Gavin]

Me.

[WNYC Studios]

80% of our days.

[Katie Gavin]

The sex.

[WNYC Studios]

Can be amazing and otherwise it's okay But I think this is as good as it gets My love I think this is as good as it gets Pray to God that you think that it is enough I think this is as good as it gets I think this is as good as it gets Want you to disappoint me on an earth two we're old I'm inside for the laundry you're outside fixing the hose I think this is as good as it gets my love I think this is as good as it gets Pray to God that you think that it is enough I think this is as good as it gets Yes, I think this is as good as it get I think it is as good as it gets? As good as it gets? As good as it gets.

[Nana Ajoa]

That's Katie Gavin from her new album. What a relief. She also on that song. You heard Nana Adoja performing on the record, though. It's Mitsky.

[Katie Gavin]

Yeah, it is.

[Nana Ajoa]

How'd that collaboration come about?

[Katie Gavin]

I had her phone number. I just texted her. It was Phoebe's idea, actually, that it should be a duet, and Mitskee's my favorite songwriter, so I just. I wanted to have her. She was my first choice.

[Nana Ajoa]

Yeah, you're on Phoebe Bridger's label, and I have to imagine that she's a good creative soundboard.

[Katie Gavin]

Yeah, she's a really good A and R person. I'm a lucky girl. And I also worked with Tony Berg, who produced the record and works with Phoebe a lot. So it was nice to have them both as kind of like, sounding boards.

[Nana Ajoa]

What advice did Tony Burr give you?

[Katie Gavin]

He worked with me a lot, actually, on what's called pre production. Like, I played him. I just went to his house a bunch of days in a row and played him, like, 40 demos, and we, like, restructured certain songs and change certain chords. He really pushes you to, like, make interesting choices that serve the song. I can be, like, a bit of a classicist in terms of songwriting. Like, I just stick to, you know, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus. And he pushes you outside of the box a little bit.

[Nana Ajoa]

I was going to ask you, do you ever get precious about your. Your songs? And then somebody comes in and just says, hey, guess what? We're gonna move this. We're gonna move this over here. And you're like, whoa.

[Katie Gavin]

No, for sure. Yeah. I mean, it's never really like that. I feel. I feel that I've. I'm. I mean, I'm about to be 32, so I've been working in music for a really long time, and it. And I feel like I've learned how to advocate for myself in a certain way and say, like, hey, I'm a precious baby creative, and I have to be treated really delicately in order to not shut down in the studio. Um, but, yeah, I mean, we had certain, like, points of contention, actually in the. In the last song we're going to play for you. There's a line in it that was questioned because it's kind of just. It's just a weird line, but sometimes, you know in your heart that you know it's right. And ultimately, you know, that's what this solo project was about. A lot for me was, like, learning to trust my own instinct.

[Nana Ajoa]

What was the. What is the. The difference between writing a song for Muna and writing a song that's just for Katy?

[Katie Gavin]

Right. I think, actually I do kind of write without a destination in mind, or I write. I'm constantly writing for Muna. And if really, it's like, that is my primary relationship, and if they don't feel that a song is right for them, then it will go to me. But these are, like, ultimately, these are B sides. These are Muna reject songs. And that's completely fine with me. I really want, you know, my legacy to be like, what would I do with Muna? But this is. This is all great on top. This is a cherry on top.

[Nana Ajoa]

My guest is Katie Gavin. The new album is called what a Relief. So many of these songs are about love. I love the one about the dog being next to you in bed. It's just. It's really sweet.

[WNYC Studios]

Thank you.

[Nana Ajoa]

Does writing a song help you deal with those kind of emotions, even if it's about a dog?

[Katie Gavin]

Yeah, actually, there's a song you're talking about, Sweet Abby Girl. And I. I wrote that song right after I had adopted two senior dogs, and one of them passed away. And I wrote that song while I was really grieving. I was really struck by the grief. It was intense. And I had posted it on actually, like, my story on Instagram, and I got a ton of people, like, responding with their own experiences, and that moment was really pivotal for, like, moving my grief. I just feel like it really helps me to create stuff, share it, and then be able to talk about those feelings with other people. It's just I'm lucky to have that tool.

[Nana Ajoa]

So you think you have a different relationship, whatever, with whatever emotion it is after you've written a song about it?

[Katie Gavin]

I think. I don't know if it's that I have one after a different one after writing, but after sharing, I think because it just opens up. I need to talk about these things with other people and, like, know that I'm not alone in what I'm experiencing.

[Nana Ajoa]

You've been directing your videos. A couple of videos, we should say.

[Katie Gavin]

Yeah.

[Nana Ajoa]

For casual drug use and Aftertaste. Has that always been an ambition for you to direct?

[Katie Gavin]

No, but it is really fun.

[Nana Ajoa]

And I say take another take.

[Katie Gavin]

Yeah. Like, I think I realized I was very lucky. I worked with this photographer and director, Alexa Vicious, who's based in Chicago, which is where I'm from, and it was just really beautiful. I got to go back to my city to do the video for Aftertaste and she handled a lot of the logistics, but I kind of got to just have a very detailed fantasy, like that's what directing kind of was for me. I was like. And then I do this at this point in the song and I like made a shot list for her. And, you know, I've been doing that. I've been having detailed fantasies to pop songs since I was like, you know, 8 years old. So it's actually, if you think about it like that, it's not that hard.

[Nana Ajoa]

Is her name really Alexis Vicious?

[Katie Gavin]

Alexa Vicious. Yeah. Yeah. She's the coolest.

[Nana Ajoa]

What's it been like being on stage by yourself?

[Katie Gavin]

Well, I'm not by myself. It's really nice to have Nana Joa with me, but I think it has been. It's been really fun not having. The biggest difference is that I don't have in ear monitors in when we're playing a Munichow. I have things in my ears that keep me from hearing what people in the audience are saying. I can just hear the tracks we're playing with these monitors, so I can just hear people talking to me. And we're having like a com. We're having a conversation the whole show. So I. I feel very much not alone.

[Nana Ajoa]

We're gonna play your last song for us is inconsolable and it's got this country feel to it. One YouTube comment said, I didn't know how badly I need to yee haw Katie until now. And you co wrote this with Eric Radloff?

[Katie Gavin]

Yeah, I did. Yeah. He wrote. Yeah, he wrote some of the pre chorus helped me like fill in the blanks in this song.

[Nana Ajoa]

Let's listen to Inconsolable from Katie Gavin.

[WNYC Studios]

Said stay with me and we'll fall asleep I was sitting on the couch and I put my hood up Couldn't let it be couldn't let you see if I could have done better than you know I would've Wanna say it first but I don't have the words we're from a long line of people we describe as inconsolable we don't know how to be helped yeah we're from a whole lot of households full of beds where nobody cuddled we don't know how to be helped I seen baby lizards run into the river when they open their eyes no no one taught them how or what maybe when you kiss me I can let you see me cry if we keep going by the feeling we can get by you do it too when you're in a mood you go hiding in your house trying to be your own savior why can't you see I love you Even when you're acting out on your worst behavior But I know why you won't let me inside we're from a long line of people we describe as inconsolable we don't know how to be helped yeah we're from a whole lot of households full of beds where nobody cuddled we don't know how to be helped I've seen baby lizards running near the river when they open their eyes Even though no one taught them how we're W maybe when you kiss me I can't let you see me cry if we keep going by the feeling we can get by if we keep going by the feeling we can get by.

[Nana Ajoa]

That was Katie Gavin from Muna, performing from her debut solo album, what a Relief. Katie Gavin is performing tonight and tomorrow at Radio City Music Hall. You can also catch Katy's DJ set at the Market Hotel tonight at 11:30pm.

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