Songs that Explain the 2000s with Rob Harvilla

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – "Songs that Explain the 2000s with Rob Harvilla"

Release Date: January 8, 2025

Introduction

In the premiere episode of the 2000 series of WNYC's All Of It, host Alison Stewart delves into the vibrant and transformative music landscape of the early 2000s. Joining her is music writer and podcast host, Rob Harvilla, renowned for his podcast 60 Songs that Explain the 90s. Together, they explore the defining songs, artists, and cultural shifts that characterized the decade often referred to as the "Aughts."

Setting the Scene: The Music of the 2000s

Alison Stewart opens the conversation by framing the first quarter-century as comparable to the final weeks of freshman year, signaling the end of an era. She highlights the transition from 90s boy bands to contemporary R&B artists like Missy Elliott and Usher, the continuation of the Britpop wave with Oasis and Blur, and the emergence of electronic genres such as dubstep and grime. Iconic hits from the decade mentioned include:

• The Killers – Mr. Brightside
• System of a Down – Chop Suey
• Avril Lavigne – Complicated
• Eminem – Outcast
• Jay-Z – Empire State of Mind

Rob Harvilla’s Perspective: Redefining the Decade

[02:44] Rob Harvilla shares his discomfort with the term "Aughts," describing it as "arbitrary" and "rudely phrased." He emphasizes his preference for simply referring to the 2000s without the moniker, stating, “I can’t like it. It just doesn’t sit right in my mouth.”

Reflecting on his role as a professional music critic, Rob discusses how his relationship with the music of the 2000s differs from his teenage years. He mentions engaging critically with genres like nu metal and artists such as Britney Spears and Avril Lavigne, noting the shift from personal enjoyment to analytical appreciation.

Defining the Era: "Mr. Brightside" as an Anthem

[04:47] Alison asks Rob why he selected The Killers' Mr. Brightside as a representative song for the 2000s. Rob responds, “I really do think, has come to define the Aughts. It is the Don't Stop Believin’ of the 2000s, if that means anything to you.” He highlights the song's pervasive presence, with over two billion plays on Spotify, and its universal appeal across diverse settings—from hockey arenas to weddings.

Rob praises the song's enduring quality and its ability to resonate with multiple generations, attributing its success to elements like its compelling percussion. Alison adds, “[05:36] I think it's the percussion,” noting the drums are "high up and placed forward," making the beat accessible to all listeners.

Avril Lavigne’s "Complicated": The Anti-Pop Icon

[07:22] The discussion shifts to Avril Lavigne's Complicated, which Alison introduces, prompting Rob to explore the song's cultural significance. He explains how Avril was marketed as the "anti-Britney Spears," aligning her with artists like Michelle Branch and Vanessa Carlton who were portrayed as more authentic and musician-driven compared to the polished pop image of Britney.

Rob delves into the media narratives of the time, describing Avril and her contemporaries as a backlash against the dominant teen pop scene. He emphasizes the media's role in framing these artists as "real and more authentic,” thereby shaping public perception and influencing the musical landscape.

The Impact of 9/11 on Music Perception

A listener calls in at [08:50] to inquire about how the September 11 attacks influenced the music of the 2000s. Rob acknowledges that 9/11 served as a significant filter through which he interprets the decade's music. He discusses how even songs not directly related to the events were perceived differently, citing examples like System of a Down's Chop Suey and Jimmy Eat World's The Middle.

Rob mentions the restrictive measures taken by organizations like Clear Channel, which advised against playing certain songs that could be considered insensitive or too utopian in the post-9/11 context. He reflects on how this period led to a blend of pop songs that were joyful yet carried an unintended ironic undertone due to the nation's collective trauma.

Listener Contributions: Diverse Musical Memories

Listeners share their personal connections to the 2000s music scene:

• Mike from Huntington ([11:29]) reminisces about listening to Wilco’s Summerteeth, Ben Lee, Ryan Adams’ Post 9/11, and Nelly’s Country Grammar.

• Natalie from California ([23:47]) reflects on the transition from the MySpace to Tumblr era, enjoying tracks like Them Franchise Boys' Lean Would It Rock and Vampire Weekend's Oxford Comma.

Rob engages with these anecdotes, highlighting the diverse tastes and regional influences that shaped the decade's music.

Political and Social Commentary in Music: "Paper Planes"

Alison introduces M.I.A.'s Paper Planes, prompting a deep dive into its political and social undertones. Rob explains that the song critiques immigrant stereotypes, portraying immigrants in a satirical, gangster-like manner. He discusses M.I.A.'s role as a provocative political artist and her ability to maintain her edge despite mainstream success, referencing her controversial actions like referencing conspiracies and selling unconventional merchandise.

Rob underscores the significance of Paper Planes in representing the decade's intersection of pop culture and political discourse, noting its widespread acclaim and critical acclaim.

The Rise of Indie Rock and Its Enduring Legacy

Rob elaborates on the rise of indie rock in the mid-2000s, particularly in Brooklyn, New York. He cites bands like MGMT, TV on the Radio, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Grizzly Bear, Animal Collective, and Arcade Fire as the vanguard of this movement. Rob remarks on the enduring appeal of songs like MGMT's Kids, emphasizing their ability to transcend generations and remain relevant.

He reflects on the cultural shift from college rock in the 80s to alternative in the 90s and then to indie rock in the 2000s, highlighting how these genres encapsulated the mood and aspirations of the era.

Green Day’s "American Idiot": A Political Rock Anthem

Discussing Green Day, Rob points out the band's rare ability to maintain popularity from the 90s into the 2000s. He highlights American Idiot as a standout album that serves as a potent anti-war statement, contrasting it with the less widespread protest music of the time. Rob praises Green Day for their "second act," where American Idiot became as emblematic of the band as their earlier work, Dookie.

Amy Winehouse’s "Back to Black": Celebrating a Singular Talent

A listener requests a discussion on Amy Winehouse, and Rob eagerly complies. He describes Back to Black as a monumental album featuring Winehouse's "distinctive, most majestic voice of the early 2000s." Rob emphasizes his intent to celebrate Winehouse's musical genius rather than focus solely on her tragic personal struggles. He praises her ability to blend jazz phrasing with hip-hop elements authentically, placing her alongside legendary artists like Tony Bennett and Ella Fitzgerald.

Rob expresses a desire to honor her legacy through her music, stating, “I want to celebrate what made her so unique,” highlighting the profound impact she had on the music world despite her untimely death.

Final Reflections and Listener Engagement

As the episode wraps up, Alison Stewart plays Jimmy Eat World's The Middle, allowing listeners to reflect on the discussed themes. Rob shares his admiration for the song's enduring message of self-acceptance and perseverance.

The episode concludes with listener interactions, where fans express their nostalgia and personal connections to the music of the 2000s, reinforcing the decade's lasting influence on contemporary culture.

Notable Quotes:

• Rob Harvilla [02:44]: “I cannot like it. It just doesn’t sit right in my mouth.”

• Rob Harvilla [04:47]: “Mr. Brightside, I really do think, has come to define the Aughts. It is the Don't Stop Believin’ of the 2000s.”

• Rob Harvilla [07:28]: “I really dig just going back and seeing how these people were framed and sort of sold to us, you know, and how that marketing sort of holds up now.”

• Rob Harvilla [12:46]: “Mia has one of the most fascinating, you know, most frustrating arcs of any pop musician, you know, of this century so far, I think.”

• Rob Harvilla [21:52]: “I want to celebrate what made her so unique… The albums that really helped people process and heal and sort of come together.”

Conclusion

This episode of All Of It offers a comprehensive exploration of the 2000s music scene, highlighting the era's defining songs and artists while contextualizing them within broader cultural and social shifts. Through insightful discussions with Rob Harvilla and engaging listener contributions, Alison Stewart provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of how the music of the 2000s continues to resonate and influence today’s cultural landscape.

Transcript

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[Rob Harvilla]

Listener Supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of It. I'm Alison Stewart. The beginning of 2025 also represents the end of the first quarter of the century. If you think about the first 100 years of the millennium, like a four year school, we're basically in the final weeks of freshman year. So to close out today's show, we're going to time travel back 25 years. A look at some of the music of the early two when the boy bands of the 90s gave way to contemporary R and B like Missy Elliott or Usher, the Brit wave of artists like Oasis and Blur continued their heyday as electronic genres like dubstep and grime came into being. It was a decade of hits like Mr. Brightside by the Killers, Chop Suey by System of a Down, and Complicated by Avril Lavigne in hip hop. The decade began with outcast Ms. Jackson and ended with Empire State of Mind. So call this era the Aughts. Although my next guest for this conversation refuses to. Music writer Rob Havila hosts the podcast 60 Songs that Explain the 90s, which, despite its name, is now taking a look at the music of the 2000s.

[Rob Harvilla]

Hey, Rob, how you doing? It's so great to be back. Thank you for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

So glad to have you. When you think of this era, what aesthetic artistic impulses would you say define the music of this era?

[Rob Harvilla]

The pants are very large. That's honestly the first thing that just popped into my head. Okay, so I am no longer a teenager. I am a young adult. I am working for an alt weekly in Columbus, Ohio. I am a professional music critic. So the first thing that strikes me about the music of the 2000s is I have a different relationship to it now. You know, I'm no longer a teenager, like in love with the music I'm in love with now. I am analyzing it as a professional critic. Right now. I am reckoning with nu metal, you know, and Britney Spears and Avril Lavigne and Chop Suey. And I just, it's, it changes completely the way I hear the music almost. I don't know if anything like that ever happened to you, but that was my experience.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, yes. I want to point out that in your sort of a Mini episode of your podcast where you're going to explore the music from the years 2000 to 2009. You refuse to call it the Aughts. Why not?

[Rob Harvilla]

I do. It just bothers me. The phrase just bothers me. It's arbitrary. It's rude to the phrase. But I just. I cannot. I don't like it. It just doesn't sit right in my mouth. And that is the reason that the full title of my podcast is now 60 songs that explain the 90s. Colon. The 2000s. I prefer to say colon, but you can do what you want. But that's just. This is the. This is the stand that I am taking, you know, this is the hill I am going to die on.

[Alison Stewart]

Listeners, we want to hear from you. Which artists or bands were you listening.

[Listener]

To in the early 2000s?

[Alison Stewart]

What is a song that describes a decade in a nutshell for you?

[Listener]

Do you have any stories about music.

[Alison Stewart]

That serve as a good snapshot for. Hold your ears for the Aughts?

[Listener]

Give us a call at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. You can call in and join us on the air.

[Alison Stewart]

You can text to us at that number, or you can hit us up.

[Listener]

On social media at all of itNYC. Okay. In the premiere episode of the 2000 series, you covered the killers. Mr. Brightside, let's take a listen.

[Song Lyrics]

She's touching his chest now he takes off her dress now let. And I just can't look it's killing me and taking control Jealousy turning sinks into the sea Swimming through sick lullabies Choking on your alibi but it's just the price I paid Destiny is calling me Open up my eager eyes cause I. Mr. Brightside.

[Alison Stewart]

Okay, Rob, why do you choose that song as your entry point to the music of the 2000s?

[Rob Harvilla]

I can't quite explain it, and I spent 9,000 words trying. But that song, Mr. Brightside, I really do think, has come to define the Aughts. Right? I. It's. It's got, like, 2 billion plays on Spotify. It is apparently a song where you play it in any environments. You know, at a hockey arena, at a bar mitzvah, at a funeral, like any environment. You put on that song and everyone freaks out. They jump up, they start singing along like, this is. It's the Don't Stop believing of the 2000s, if that means anything to you. Like, that's. That's just the way it is. And I was fascinated by that. It's a great song, but I was fascinated by how that song has endured as the anthem of that era. I really do think that's true, and I don't quite know why, but I'm not mad at it.

[Alison Stewart]

I think it's the percussion.

[Rob Harvilla]

Sure, the percussion that's interesting. I've never heard that. You really. You dig the drums, huh?

[Alison Stewart]

And they're. They're high up. They're high up and they're placed forward, which I think everybody can find a beat.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's right. All right. It's good to have a fresh perspective on that because I just talked way too long about the lyrics. The first half hour of my episode on Mr. Brightside was like the crudest half hour of content I have ever generated. I hope my mother didn't listen to it, but the beat is a way better way of explaining the appeal. So thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

Your episode covered on Avril Lavigne's Complicated. Let's hear it and we can talk about it on the other side.

[Song Lyrics]

Chill out. What you yelling for? Lay back. It's all been done before and if you could only let it be you would see I like you the way you are when we're driving in your car and you're talking to me one on one but you become somebody else round everyone else. You're watching your back like you can't relax you try to be cool you look like a fool to me Tell.

Me why the hell you go and.

Make things so complicated I see the.

Way you're acting like you're somebody else gets me frustrated.

Life's like this.

[Rob Harvilla]

You.

[Song Lyrics]

You fall and you crawl and you break and you take what you get and you turn it into honesty Promise me I'm never gonna find you again.

No, no, no.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, Rob. It's all so complicated. What's complicated?

[Rob Harvilla]

You know what's complicated about this is I remember this song being ubiquitous in real time, like, on the radio. But I forgot the way that Avril Lavigne was specifically framed as the anti Britney Spears. Everything, you know, it's that era. You had Avril Lavigne, you had Michelle Branch, who had Everywhere. You had Vanessa Carlton, you know, A Thousand Miles, the piano. Like these. These artists were specifically marketed as, like, not teen pop, right? They play their own instruments, they write their own songs, and they're the anti Britney. Like, I'm really interested in sort of the media narratives at that time and the way teen pop like boy bands and Britney Spears were so dominant coming out of the 90s and into the 2000s. And this was like the backlash Right. At least the media generated backlash. I don't think Avril cared for the term at all. But just this idea that we had this new wave of female singer songwriters who are, like, real and more authentic, you know, and not fabricated. Like all of that sort of generality. Like, I really dig just going back and seeing how these people were framed and sort of sold to us, you know, and how that marketing sort of holds up now.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, it's sort of interesting. On a serious note, you're talking about sort of authenticity.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

And you have to really think that a lot of culture, for time being.

[Listener]

Was defined by the terror attacks of 9 11.

[Rob Harvilla]

Of course. Of course.

[Listener]

How did it change the music world?

[Rob Harvilla]

That's the filter through which I hear all this music, you know, and I try and go light on that on the show. But like, everything, even a song, like Complicated, even a song like Jimmy Eat World's the Middle. Right. Like these joyful, happy, poppy radio songs. Like, I Hear Them through the prism of 9 11. Absolutely. I mean, I did an episode you mentioned on Chop Sui by the metal band System of a Down. And what I remember most vividly about the terror attacks in 911 afterward, Clear Channel, which owned all these radio stations, hundreds if not thousands of radio stations at the time, they had this memo, this leaked memo of songs that you shouldn't play on the radio right now because it just wasn't the right environment. And it's such a bizarre mix of really heavy metal songs that are a little too intense. Like any songs that mention planes in any context, like Fly Away by Lenny Kravitz and then stuff like Imagined, you know, or what a Wonderful World. Like songs that are too pretty or too utopian, like, they scan as ironic suddenly in this context. Like, of course, the Dixie Chicks, now the Chicks, of course. But just, you know, the backlash, you know, to the statements they made about the Iraq war. Like I. You know, the country music boom of really jingoistic, you know, let's go get em sort of radio songs, you know, Toby Keats, you know, Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue, for example. Like, I. I hear even music that isn't explicitly about that moment and a reaction to that moment and the culture and the time and the mood. I still all hear it through the prism of 9 11. I really wish I couldn't, you know, some things, like U2's all that you can't leave behind, like Bruce Springsteen's the Rising. Like, these albums that I think really helped people process and heal and sort of come together, you know, and it really, there was kind of a utopian feel to some of the rock and pop of that time, that it really was trying to unify us and heal us in some, you know, abstract sense. But I hear all the music like this. I wish I didn't, but I do. I don't know about you.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, for sure. Let's take some. This is from X. Time for Heroes by the Libertine summarizes a feeling of being part of a new wave of music that was happening in the moment. It had lots of brash and cool attitude with a textbook definition of classic rock and roll ego bravado. Listening from Mexico. Thanks for calling in. Let's talk to Mike in Huntington. Hi, Mike, thanks for calling, all of it. What do you gotta say?

[Mike]

I think the first thing is kind of I'm going from memory here, so, you know, I'm not wikiing what I was actually listening to in 2000. But, you know, I know that I was then and still am listening to Wilco. They have an album, 99 Summerties, which I think is often overlooked as a real pop gem in their catalog. I think 2000. I was probably also listening to a lot of Ben Lee, Dwayne probably. Oh, crappy human being, but big musician at the time, Ryan Adams, he had that album post 911 with the American flag on the COVID with the song New York. So that was, that was kind of. Yeah, there you go.

[Alison Stewart]

Thanks for calling, Mike. We really appreciate it. We are talking about the music of the 2000s with music journalist and podcast host Rob Harvila. We'll have more after the break. You can call in and join us. 212-433-9692. Your favorite song of of the early 2000s. After a break this week on the.

[Rob Harvilla]

New Yorker Radio Hour, the problem of Alice Munro, a revered artist who chose to hide a terrible secret in her family.

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Her writing makes you think about, like, art. At what expense? Like it felt so literal, like, you know, trading your daughter for art.

[Rob Harvilla]

Rachel Leviev on Alice Monroe. That's the New Yorker Radio Hour from WNYC Studios. Listen, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alison Stewart]

You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Rob Harvila. He's host of the podcast 60 songs that explain the 90s colon the 2000s. We are talking about the music of the 2000s. I want to play a little bit of Mia's paper planes. Let's take a listen.

[Song Lyrics]

If you come around here, I'll make Them all day I get one down in a second if you wait I fly like paper get highlight planes if you catch me at the border I go Visas in my name if you come around hey, I make them all day I get one down in a second if you wait Sometimes I think sitting on trains Every step I get I'm clocking that game everyone's away.

[Rob Harvilla]

All.

[Alison Stewart]

Right, that's great to dance to, but it's also a critique of the international drug trade. How did the music world approach political and socially poignant music?

[Rob Harvilla]

It's interesting because your caller mentioned Wilco, right? And the Wilco album, Yankee Hotel Foxtrot became another one of these albums that help people process, you know, the 911 attacks and the American mood, despite being released and recorded, of course, before the attacks. Right. Like, it was sort of. That was projected onto it. That mood and that analysis of the record was projected onto the record. Whereas I think mia, I think easily one of, you know, the most popular and also most political. Like, it's a buzz, like incendiary political artists of our time. I mean, Paper Planes, to my mind, has always been a song about immigrants. You know, just the public perception of immigrants is just people coming to our country to take our money, you know, and so she's personifying that, and she's blowing it up to this cartoon, like, gangster sort of appeal. She's. She's sampling a Clash song, of course, Straight to Hell, that had a similar sort of theme. I mean, this Mia, to me, was somebody who was hugely, critically popular, you know, like, big on critic, critics, polls, things of that nature. But Paper Planes was her huge crossover song. Right. It was in the trailer for that movie, Pineapple Express, like the stoner comedy with Seth Rogen and James Franco. And, like, suddenly she's a pop artist. Suddenly she's on stage at the Grammys with, like, Jay Z and Lil Wayne and Kanye West. But she's. She's keeping, you know, this ferocity, this edge, this provocation. You know, I just. The Mia saga is just so fascinating. Just her press coverage. If the words truffle fries mean anything to you in context with Mia, like, if you don't know what I'm talking about, stay out of it. But, like, Mia, just the political statement she would make. You know, she flipped the bird at the super bowl with Madonna a couple years later. Like, nowadays, you know, she's tilted a little bit into conspiracy thinking. She's selling tinfoil hats for a hundred dollars on her website, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not really endorsing that, but I'm just letting you know it's available. I. You know, MIA has one of the most fascinating, you know, most frustrating arcs of any pop musician, you know, of this century so far, I think.

[Listener]

Got a text. I was in high school in New York city in the 2000s. Two albums that define that period for me were Operation Doomsday by MF Doom and let's Get Free by Dead Prez. Also remember listening to a lot of Dashboard Confessional when I was feeling emojis. This one says what a scope. I know.

[Alison Stewart]

Love it.

[Listener]

In high school, my best friend and I traveled to Philly to see one of our favorite bands, incubus. For my 40th birthday this year, we traveled to Austin to see them play again. We sang along with Brendan and had such a great time. I remember a very dance based hip hop like Nellie's country grammar, Midwest rap, that sort of Midwest rap. What do you make of that?

[Rob Harvilla]

There wasn't a lot of it. Nelly was from St. Louis, you know, and so Nellie was representing for St. Louis, which is nice most pizza and the like. And so yeah, Hot in Here is one of the most, you know, an emblematic 2000 songs for me, for sure, you know, produced by the Neptunes, you know, of course you produce songs by, you know, the Clips, you know, and Snoop Dogg and I. I'm trying to think if there were other huge Midwestern artists at the time. I'm gonna blank on somebody obvious. But yeah, Nelly. Nelly was an outlier there in Houston and I love him for it. St. Louis, sorry.

[Listener]

Let's listen to MGMT management. Let's listen to kids.

[Song Lyrics]

You were a child cry. I was so proud. But your voice is too loud.

[Listener]

So Rob, what do you remember about the music scene that accompanied this rise of indie pop rock sound?

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, I mean, very broadly speaking, you know, the arc, like in the 80s it was college rock, and in the 90s that became alternative rock. And in the 2000s it became indie rock. Right? It just sort of such a broad term as to be meaningless. But by this time, mid-2000s, I'm living in New York City, right? I'm living in Brooklyn, you know, and I'm as cool as I'm ever going to be in my entire life. And MGMT are suddenly huge. Along with all these other Brooklyn bands, you know, TV on the radio, the yeah yeah Yeahs, you know, if you brought it out a little bit, like Grizzly Bear, like Animal Collective, like this is. These are the cool new rock bands. Arcade Fire of Course, like this, this is the vanguard now as far as guitar rock and beyond. And it seemed very cool, you know, and I was. I was too large a human to shop in American Apparel, but I was aware of the fact that everyone around me was, you know, I was going to free pool parties at McCarran Pool in Brooklyn, you know, and I was. I was just trying to fit in and probably not doing a very good job. But there was this sense that like, this was the cool stuff. But MGMT and that song, maybe particularly kids, is another one like m Bright side that has endured, you know, and I feel that keeps picking up a new, new generations of listeners and now stands, you know, as if you're picking like the 3 to 5, you know, broadly speaking, rock songs, pop songs, indie rock songs of that era. Like, you gotta have MGMT in there. I wouldn't have guessed that at the time, but they've, they've really, really held up.

[Alison Stewart]

This text says Green Day, American Idiots.

[Rob Harvilla]

Absolutely. I mean, it's. I think a lot about the bands that were popular in the 90s, you know, Pearl Jam, you know, Nirvana, Nine Inch Nails, etc. And how few of them maintained that popularity into the 2000s. And sometimes there are very good reasons for that, personal reasons. But Green Day is one of the few who I'd say made like an album emblematic of the 90s dookie, of course. But then American Idiot was huge. Absolutely huge. It's probably the highest profile, you know, if you want to say like political, like anti war statements made by a major rock band. It's not that nobody did it, but there wasn't a huge wave of protest music necessarily like people thought or hoped, you know, coming out of, you know, 9, 11 and the Iraq War, et cetera. But American Idiot stands out as a huge exception. And for young people now, I think American Idiot is every bit as emblematic of Green Day as Dookie, you know, as what came before. It's really impressive the way that you can have a second act like that. It's pretty rare.

[Listener]

This one says, okay, how you gonna not mention Back to Black? Like I said, we're on it. Let's listen.

[Song Lyrics]

Me.

Am my head high and my tears dry get on without my gu.

[Listener]

Rob, as you look back on the decade, how do you think about Amy Winehouse's impact and what her story tells us about the musical impulses of the early 2000s?

[Rob Harvilla]

Amy Winehouse was my second episode after Mr. Brightside. You know, I had to do her immediately, but I really worried about it because I didn't want her to be merely, you know, a tragic story. Right. Like, for me, like, she's. It's one of the huge, biggest musical tragedies of the decade, you know, and partly, you gotta lay that at the feet of the tabloid culture of the time, just how horribly she was written about. You know, this cycle we go through with Britney Spears, you know, where we make a bunch of documentaries apologizing to her for her treatment back then, you know, it's a similar thing, but Amy Winehouse had one of the most distinctive, most vivid, most majestic voices of the early 2000s, you know, and what I really tried to do with my episode on Back to Black is like, not just make it about how it ended, you know, and what she went through, you know, and just the tragic hero, you know, 27 club of it.

[Alison Stewart]

All.

[Rob Harvilla]

Right. Like, I really wanted to celebrate what made her so unique, like, where she came from, you know, the jazz phrasing, you know, that she was able to update, you know, to mix with hip hop, but not in a way that seemed cloying or unnatural. Just she was her own person, and you could tell where she came from and you could tell the artists that she loved. But she belonged in that. In that pantheon with those artists, you know, the Tony Bennett's, the Ella Fitzgeralds. From the beginning, you know, it's just such a. For just two albums, it's just such an incredible body of work. And what I'm always trying to do with the show, you know, when I have to talk about somebody who died tragically, you know, I don't want it to be like a very special episode of the podcast. Right. Like, I want to keep the tone not light, but just. I want it to be celebratory. I want to celebrate the music that she made more than I want wallow in, you know, how her story ended.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's get these really quick. Natalie in California, Go for it.

[Progressive Insurance Ad]

Hi, Allison. I just wanted to mention I grew up in the MySpace era, graduated to Tumblr era. So for me, it was really a funny mix. Like, in middle school, we would be dancing to Lean Would It Rock with it by Them Franchise Boys. And then all of a sudden, we'd be singing Oxford Comma by Vampire Weekend. Shout out to them. Just saw them last year on their tour, and it was amazing. Got to relive some old memories from the 2000s.

[Alison Stewart]

Love hearing that. Thank you so much. And thank you to Rob Harvilla. The podcast is 60 songs that explain the 90s colon the 2000s thanks for joining us, Rob.

[Rob Harvilla]

Thanks for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's go out on the Middle by Jimmy Eat World, huh?

[Song Lyrics]

Hey, don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left out or look down on. Try your best everything you can and don't you worry what they tell themselves when you're away. It just takes some time, little girl and a little out the ride Elba thing Elvison will be just fine. Elthon Elverton will be.

[Listener]

And that is all of it for today. I appreciate you listening. I appreciate you. I'm Alison Stewart. I'll meet you back here next time.

[Song Lyrics]

You know you're doing better on your own so don't buy him live right now. Yeah, just be yourself. It doesn't matter if it's good and not enough for someone else. It just takes some time.

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[Ira Flatow]

This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been report high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.