All of It: Steely Dan's 'Two Against Nature' at 25 – A Deep Dive into Timeless Precision

Release Date: February 26, 2025
Host: Alison Stewart
Podcast: All of It by WNYC

Introduction: Celebrating a Musical Milestone

In this episode of All of It, host Alison Stewart commemorates the 25th anniversary of Steely Dan's iconic album, Two Against Nature. Released on February 29, 2000, the album marked a significant return for the band after a 20-year hiatus since their previous release, Gaucho. Stewart sets the stage by highlighting the cultural landscape of the late 1990s and early 2000s, a period dominated by genres like hip-hop, pop, and the rise of bands such as Radiohead and Beck. Despite these seismic shifts in the music industry, Steely Dan's Two Against Nature not only resonated but also garnered critical acclaim, including multiple Grammy Awards.

Steely Dan's Return: Navigating a Changed Musical Landscape

Steely Dan, known for their perfectionist jazz-rock fusion, faced a vastly different musical environment upon releasing Two Against Nature. Alison Stewart narrates, "From the perfectionist jazz rock fusion band, rock had opened up for acts like Radiohead and Beck. ... and hip hop had taken over. Eminem was at the height of his powers" [02:26]. This context underscores the album's remarkable success despite the band's unwavering commitment to their unique sound.

Insights from Amanda Petrasich: A Music Journalist's Perspective

Steely Dan enthusiast and New Yorker staff writer Amanda Petrasich joins the conversation to provide her insights. Introduced at [03:35], Petrasich shares her late introduction to Steely Dan, contrasting her background in punk rock with the band's "incredibly cerebral, formally sophisticated" music. She reflects on the album's lyrical depth, describing it as "sort of perverse... dark, ...mean" [04:41]. Petrasich emphasizes the album's timeless quality, noting, "it was sort of specifically not of its time" [20:15], which contributes to its enduring appeal.

Notable Quote:

"Steely Dan is Steely Dan, and that's it."
— Amanda Petrasich [20:15]

Behind the Scenes with Elliot Shiner: The Engineer's Tale

Elliot Shiner, a veteran recording engineer who worked on Two Against Nature, shares his experiences at [07:35]. Shiner recounts his long-standing friendship with band members Donald Fagen and Walter Becker, highlighting the collaborative and meticulous nature of Steely Dan's recording process. He describes the band's perfectionism, stating, "they were obsessive in the studio" [14:24], and the intense demand for sonic precision that characterized the album's production.

Notable Quote:

"What I had been doing before was something they wanted."
— Elliot Shiner [09:39]

Shiner also narrates an anecdote about how his personal life inadvertently influenced the songwriting, leading to the creation of "Haitian Divorce" [10:35].

The Art of Perfection: Steely Dan's Recording Philosophy

The episode delves into Steely Dan's renowned perfectionism. Petrasich comments on the band's "massive supporting cast" and their ability to fulfill Donald and Walter's "idiosyncratic vision for music" [12:45]. Shiner echoes this sentiment, explaining how Steely Dan valued every track's quality, often requiring numerous takes to achieve the desired sound. This relentless pursuit of excellence is both a hallmark of their music and a testament to their influence in the industry.

Notable Quote:

"Steely Dan is Walter Becker and Donald Fagan. Everyone else is an instrument."
— Amanda Petrasich [14:12]

Grammy Glory: A Night to Remember

Two Against Nature not only impressed critics but also triumphed at the Grammy Awards. Shiner reminisces about the awards night, detailing the unexpected victories and the mixed reactions from the audience, particularly in contrast to Eminem's popularity [20:36]. Despite the boos from some attendees, Shiner expresses pride in the band's achievement, emphasizing the significance of their first Grammy win in their career [22:01].

Notable Quote:

"This was the first time that Walter and Donald ever won... I was proud for both of them."
— Elliot Shiner [22:01]

Musical Highlights: Exploring Key Tracks

The episode features in-depth discussions of several standout tracks from Two Against Nature:

1. "Gaslighting Abby"

   • Snippet Played: [00:37]
   • Discussion: Amanda Petrasich highlights the song's "uncanny" lyrics and introduces the concept of "gaslighting" as used in the track, reflecting the album's intricate and sometimes dark storytelling.

2. "Almost Gothic"

   • Snippet Played: [05:46]
   • Discussion: Shiner praises the song's "extraordinary" sound engineering, emphasizing the seamless blend of Steely Dan's musicality and production finesse.

3. "West of Hollywood"

   • Snippet Played: [16:27]
   • Discussion: Shiner describes the track as reminiscent of Gaucho, maintaining Steely Dan's lyrical and musical sophistication without succumbing to contemporary trends.

4. "Cousin Dupree"

   • Snippet Played: [23:46]
   • Discussion: Petrasich warns listeners about the song's provocative lyrics but encourages appreciation of its musical composition, commending Shiner's engineering work that brings the song's complexity to life.

Notable Quotes:

"It's the first time I ever heard the word gaslight used as a verb."
— Amanda Petrasich [04:52]

"Cousin Dupree is a pretty wild song... listen to just the extraordinary way that this song sounds."
— Amanda Petrasich [23:22]

Cultural Impact and Timelessness

Amanda Petrasich underscores the album's ability to transcend its release period by maintaining a sound that doesn't anchor it to the early 2000s. This timelessness is attributed to Steely Dan's unwavering dedication to their artistic vision, unaffected by prevailing musical trends [20:15].

Notable Quote:

"This album always feels really timeless to me, I think, in the sense that it was sort of specifically not of its time."
— Amanda Petrasich [20:15]

Conclusion: A Legacy of Precision and Innovation

As All of It wraps up the celebration of Two Against Nature, Alison Stewart reflects on Steely Dan's enduring legacy. The album's combination of lyrical depth, musical sophistication, and impeccable production continues to influence and inspire listeners and musicians alike. Through conversations with Amanda Petrasich and Elliot Shiner, the episode offers a comprehensive exploration of what makes Steely Dan's return album a landmark achievement in modern music.

Notable Closing Quote:

"Thank you so much, Amanda and Elliot, for sharing your insights today."
— Alison Stewart [24:05]

Additional Notes:

• Guest Contributions:

  • Amanda Petrasich: Music journalist providing analytical perspectives on Steely Dan's work and its place in music history.
  • Elliot Shiner: Recording engineer sharing firsthand experiences from the studio and insights into the album's production.

• Engagement:
  Stewart encourages listener participation through calls and interactive elements like the Oscars Bingo card, fostering a sense of community around the show's cultural discussions.

• Support and Sponsorships:
  While advertisements are present in the transcript, they are acknowledged but excluded from the summary in accordance with the provided instructions.

This detailed exploration of Two Against Nature not only celebrates its 25-year legacy but also provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of Steely Dan's enduring influence on the cultural and musical landscape.