B (3:20)

Yeah.

C (3:20)

So we want, we want to be that class, you know, and so we decided let's make, let's make teaching fun again for, for students. And we basically, through music, through contemporary music and connect the dots, you know, between the arts and the science, technology, engineering and math that, you know, the basic curriculum requires. We didn't want to be an after school thing. We wanted the art to be integrated into science and math. That's what we do. So that was our main goal. Our other goal was to keep the arts in the DNA of the public education system. And the third goal was just create a new methodology for this, for this generation, because it's a whole different generation. I mean, I thought our generation gap would be the biggest ever. This one may be maybe even bigger because it's the technological, you know, revolution has, I think, affecting their brains and their actual physically. And they need a reason to be in that classroom. You know, they can get an answer to any, anything on, in 30 seconds on a device. You know, so why are we, why are we here? You know, so we give them a reason to be in that classroom and make it fun.

B (4:35)

You know, when you were a kid, do you have a teacher that you remember?

C (4:39)

Yeah, my music teacher, which is Mrs. Wojahowski.

B (4:43)

All right, Mrs. Wojciehowski, for a shout out. What was, what was special about her or the way she taught me?

C (4:51)

Well, now this is way back in the dark ages, so. So rock and roll was still kind of a new thing. So she let us play our rock and roll records in class, which was radical. You know, I remember playing the first who album for the classroom.

B (5:06)

Oh, really?

C (5:07)

Yeah. You know, she just was very, very, very progressive that way. And, you know, I remember her because of that, you know, because in those days there was no rock and roll integrated into the mainstream. You music in those days was the, the football band and the halftime, you know, of the, you know, halftime of the football game or something like that, you know, more classical maybe or something. But rock and roll wasn't on every commercial on tv. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't like, you know, completely integrated into our society yet. So that was a radical move on.

B (5:43)

Her part, you know, that was in Jersey.

C (5:45)

Yeah, yeah. Middletown, New Jersey.

B (5:48)

Love it. You take a sip of your coffee and I'll reintroduce you. I'm speaking to Stevie Van Zandt about his music education charity Teach Rock and their new campaign celebrating teachers and students. Listeners, call in and tell us about a teacher who changed your life. Maybe they were a music teacher or an art teacher. Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. We have a good call. This is Steliani from Brooklyn. Hi, thanks for calling all of it. Tell us about your teachers.

D (6:21)

Hey, Alison, I just want to say we love you. We listen to you every day. I want to shout out my teachers, two teachers, Allison Roach and Gail Maravich. Gail Maravich was my ceramics teacher and we had a ceramics program in Blind High school, which is in the Woodside Astoria area in Queensland. Without them believing in me and pushing me, I wouldn't even have stayed in school. Gail showed me ceramics, and not only that, she helped me get into my university to, like, continue ceramics. And now we work. I own and operate Noble Plateware, which provides dinnerware to restaurants all over the world. It's like ceramics is still part of my life as a 40 year old person, you know? Yeah, that's it.

B (7:15)

That's so great. Thank you so much for shouting out your teacher. That was interesting what you said about one of your goals was keeping the arts in the DNA of the public school system. What would you say to a school board member or someone who wanted to. To cut arts?

D (7:31)

Just.

B (7:32)

That's it. We got to cut it.

C (7:33)

I know, I know. It's the first. That's why, first of all, our thing is free. So we eliminate that excuse, you know, so then go to Teach Rock and get it for free. And I'm talking about, you know, 300 lessons, lesson plans that are really good. Well, what I would tell them is art is not a luxury. We're the only country in the world that thinks art is a luxury. It is. It is an essential part of our quality of life. And everybody needs to understand that and understand that it connects the dots. I mean, that's what we use. We use it for. There's no, you know, we want to make the students comfortable before the teachers are able to teach. So, you know, in art, there's no wrong answers. You know, who's your favorite artist? Whatever you say is the right answer. You Know, so we use that. You know, we use. You know, we'll say to the students, okay, who are you listening to? You know, and they'll say, you know, Beyonce. And we say, well, you know, she comes from a woman named Martha Franklin, you know, and we talk about her and Detroit, where she comes from, and gospel church, where she comes from, and civil rights, which she was involved in. And a student pays attention. They're compelled. Compelled by the fact that you're on their turf. You know, you got to go to them these days. That's what we learned. You know, we can't do the old method of learn this now and someday you'll use it. You know, I mean, it ain't gonna work anymore. So, you know, instead of dragging them to our old methodology, we. We decided we need to create a new one and go. Go to them so they're comfortable, and they need something that's practical that they can use right now.

B (9:05)

Yeah.

C (9:06)

You know, give them something useful, you know, because that's how they. That's how they think now. I mean, so different. It's a different generation than ours. You know, they think the world started yesterday. You know, it's very, very different. So, you know, and so you got to go. You got to go to them and figure that stuff out, or else we're going to lose a whole generation here, you know?

B (9:24)

Yeah. You said Teach Rock is free to teachers and to schools. How do teachers opt in? What resources are available to them through Teach Rock?

C (9:32)

That's the whole point. We make all the video and all the masters of all the songs free. They're all licensed worldwide. We already took care of that. So they get all that. All the tools we can give them to help their job, because can you imagine how difficult it must be to get kids attention these days? You know, so we. We want to, like, again, we want to make it fun and make it. And make it fun for the teachers, first of all. You know, we figure if we take care of the teachers, they'll take care of the students. You know, that's our philosophy.

B (10:02)

What was your inspiration for the program back in the day?

C (10:05)

Well, I. You know, I didn't. I didn't really think of it until a friend came to me and said that the no Child Left behind legislation has canceled all the arts classes in America. And the Music teachers of America asked me to go down and see what I could find out. I went down. I talked to Teddy Kennedy at the time. That's how long ago it's been, and Mitch McConnell. Both sides of the aisle. And I said, you know, look what you guys have done. And. And they were like, yeah, that was kind of unintended consequence, you know, because we're so hung up on testing now because our science and math classes, you know, our scores have been so low. I say, well, you realize that kids who take music class do better in math, science. I mean, you know, and Teddy Kennedy was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. And, and the Greeks, he gave me a whole rap on how the Greeks always included the arts in there in the school system. Anyway, I realized it ain't going to get fixed, you know, and I came back, I said, man, I got, I got. I'm trying to think of something good to tell the music teachers because, you know, it's kind of depressing. And I said, okay, how about this? We're not going to put instruments in kids hands for a minute. We have to find other ways to do that. And we have, you know, but I got an idea. Why don't we make it a history class instead of, you know, this way it could be, first of all, for all the students, not just musicians. And if we make it flexible enough, it could be cross curricular, you know, music class, English class, history class, social studies. We'll connect those dots with the arts, you know, and they endorsed the idea. And off we went. You know, I just, I outlined like 250 lessons and brought in educators to write the lesson plans and got some friends to support me. And off we went.

B (11:58)

You know, Steve, let's take some more calls. Yeah, let's talk to Tanya, who's calling in from Bay Ridge. Hey, Tanya, thanks for making the time to call. All of it. You're on the air.

D (12:08)

Hi. Yeah, thank you so much for taking my call. I wanted to sort of give credit to a teacher of mine named Mr. Randolph Swire. And this was in Ontario, Canada. At first, he was my geography teacher in grade seven. And pretty abruptly in the middle of grade seven, I moved cities under some family circumstances. And fast forward, I get into a specialty arts high school and I show up in grade nine. And there's Mr. Swire. He is my drama teacher. And for the next four years, he was my biggest mentor. He really fostered a culture in our class of support that we could try new things, that we could fail and there's no judgment and we could all work together. And he always seemed to have a quiet understanding of me and my family situation without knowing too much or prying. But he was always such a huge support to me. And I think he ultimately ended up became becoming the head of the drama department at that high school. This was 20 years ago, and I still think about him very fondly. And he was a really, really important figure in my life.

B (13:13)

Love hearing that. Lucinda is calling in from Patterson, New Jersey. Hey, Lucinda, thank you for calling all of it. You're on the air. Hi.

D (13:23)

I'm going to try and turn the conversation a little bit. I was a good acquaintance of Gil Scott Heron, and he told me about Stevie tracking him down because he wanted him to be a part of the Sun City protest and the song that he created, and that was from way back in the day. So he's been an activist for a long time. And I just wanted to say hello and how much I always loved his spirit and good to hear him.

C (13:54)

Well, thank you.

B (13:55)

Thank you so much. I was listening to that this morning. I was all. I was all into it back in 83. Let's talk to. I think it was Pat. Is that who we're going to talk to? Hang on a second. Pat, are you there? Hey, you're on the air.

D (14:09)

Okay, let me turn my. Down my volume. Hey, I just wanted to give a shout out to. This was not in high school, but I had a professor in college that I took an art history class sort of by mistake. And I learned more about the history of the world than I have learned. Didn't understand it before that. And it took you through time and the way people saw things differently. So I agree with Steve. Like art so important. You don't only learn how to draw beautiful paintings or make beautiful music. You learn things. So thank you, Steve. Thank you, Alison. And that's what I have to say.

C (14:45)

Interesting. Every one of them is talking about their art teacher, aren't they?

B (14:49)

You know, it's kind of amazing. You know, recently we've talked to a lot of artists and musicians. We had the cast from Ragtime in yesterday. And then we had these two gentlemen who've done a musical about the Underground Railroad going down into Mexico. It's called Mexicus, playing at the Mineta Theater. And I'm curious, do you think about a piece of history, cultural history, political history, that you think music has benefited from, that music has taught people about? Is it Hamilton? Have you thought of some piece of music that you've heard of? And you thought, wow, that really is a history lesson in that song.

C (15:30)

Well, that's a good example right there. I mean, I must say it was a wonderful show and so creative the way he did it, you know, that it really did make you think, you know, but, you know, we. Everything we grew up with had that to some extent, you know, I mean, everything Bob Dylan was doing, especially his first, you know, the second, second, third, fourth albums when, you know, when he was talking about basically things going on, you know, politically in society and that stuff, which he didn't stay with too long, he would revisit with Hurricane later and a few things. But certainly Bob Dylan comes to mind. And, you know, and there would be, you know, once in a while, Buffalo Springfield, for what it's worth, or Jefferson Airplanes, Volunteers of America or, you know, and of course, the ultimate one was Neil Young and Crosby Stills National Young's Ohio, you know, with the tragedy it. You know, at the college, when they. National Guard. Yeah. When they shot the shot those kids. So, you know, those kind of things were very, you know, contemporary in terms of the news, you know, and then. And then hip hop, you know, was that for me. That's why we endorsed it. And we were very. We were the very earliest people to endorse it when we put them on the Sun City album. You know, people do not understand it. You know, why are you putting these. These new rappers next to Miles Davis and Bob Dylan? And, you know, and I said, because what they're doing is important. You know, they're talking about. And. And the black population, the black artists were not encouraged the way white artists were to talk about politics. You know, to be personal, you know, for the white artists, it was a requirement if you were wanted to be considered a serious artist, you know, you had to. And as political as he, as you wanted to be in those days. But the black artists, you know, I mean, Barry Gordy did not want to put out Marvin Gaye's what's Going On. I mean, he. You know, I think they held it for like a year or something, thinking that it's going to end Marvin Gaye's career and ruin Motown, you know, and.

B (17:47)

Nobody'S gonna end Marvin Gaye's career.

C (17:49)

It turned out to be like the greatest, you know, most important record ever, you know, so that was. But that was the temperature, you know, that was the atmosphere and, you know, and so. So when here comes the rappers, man, you know, talking about reality. And I just wanted to embrace it and support it and, you know, those kinds of things. I think, you know, that's why we connect Kendrick Lamar with Marvin Gaye, you know, to make that connection to civil rights. You know, we're doing that now. And. And that's what kids respond to because, you know that's what they're into. You know, go. Go to them. Go to what they're into, and we'll connect the dots for you. And before you know it, they're learning history without even realizing it.

B (18:29)

We'll have more with Stevie Van Zant after a quick break. This is all of it. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. I'm speaking to Stevie Van Zant about his music education charity, Teach Rock. We got a great text here. It says, thank you, Stevie. I'm an artist with two boys who are musicians. Names whose musicians we can't name. But we can't afford music lessons. But we have a drum kit and a pile of guitars. And during COVID I discovered Teach Rock. I set them loose on it at 3 and 6, and they still love it. I can't thank you enough. This sign three times. This many times. This many times. Give him the emoji.

C (19:21)

Nice.

B (19:22)

You've reached this milestone of a million stars. Students. What kind of. What does that tell you about the growth of the program?

C (19:29)

Yeah, that's our whole thing, man. You know, that's where all the donations go. That's why we. We're always, you know, you know, hoping that those donations keep coming in. We, We. We expand it. We. I mean, we're getting testimonials. Like, we. We get students saying, you know, I. I visit classrooms all the time. And even during COVID we were doing zoom classes and students, you know, a girl came up to me, you know, and said, you know, I. I hate all my classes except this one, you know, and this is the one I look forward to. We've had parents saying, you know, they were. They were taking their kids out of school and moving to another place because it just wasn't getting along. And now they're not going to do that because of our. Because of our curriculum. You know, we've had teachers that were going to retire who decided not to retire because of our curriculum. I mean, we're getting those kind of really significant testimonials from people. It was not only the content, which we worked on for 10, I don't know, 10, 15 years before we went public with it, but also now our new. Our new Harmony program, which is. Which is fascinating. We. The last, I don't know, two years or so, we realized that not only do we need to teach kids in a different way, but we have to actually prepare kids to be educated now, which is a whole new sort of wrinkle. Having to do with this ironically called social media. Okay. Which is the opposite of what social, you know, and there's an epidemic of alienation and isolation and increasing suicide, you know, and we realize, wow, we gotta do something. We gotta address this, right? So we now have this thing, Harmony, the harmony program in homeroom before they get to class. And we form a circle, like, you know, the Native American circle, and put your device away and talk to the person next to you. You know, it sounds ridiculously simple. Okay, but putting your device down and talking to somebody is like a radical idea these days. Right. And the teachers are saying we are getting an unbelievable response about this because now maybe the kid's a little bit shy or maybe it's a. It's an immigrant or maybe it's from out of state. Now they're going into class with a coup up on new friends. It changes their entire outlook, you know, their entire ability to then receive input, to be educated, you know, so that's been a really. A revelation to us how well that worked, because it was just a thought we had, but it's really, really working. So we're getting those kind of. Those kind of responses. So, yeah, the more this thing can. I think if we can expand this thing, we could really transform the whole education system. I believe that.

B (22:13)

Let's talk to Ben. Hey, Ben, thank you for calling in.

E (22:19)

Oh, hi.

B (22:20)

Hey, what's up?

E (22:21)

How's it going? Steve, thank you. Thank you for everything. You do love your music.

C (22:27)

Thank you.

E (22:28)

Yeah, so I'm the drummer for 80s Town, but I wouldn't be the drummer doing this, among other things, if I hadn't gone to Music and Art high school in New York City. And my teacher, Justin De Chocho. Sorry, I was just running up the stairs.

C (22:52)

What was the teacher's name again?

E (22:55)

Justin De Chocho. He taught at Music and Art for. From the 70s up into maybe the late 80s, 90s, and then he went to teach at Manhattan School of Music. But, like, he taught so many kids from New York City. It's an endless list of, like, who's who in the music business that were under his tutelage that music and art. I mean, the list, I can't even begin is Buddy Williams, Omar Hakeem, Marcus Miller.

C (23:29)

Wow.

E (23:30)

Bob Frances, Bobby Broom. You know, you guys can look it up.

C (23:35)

But was it a specific. Was it a specific arts school? You know what I mean?

E (23:43)

Yeah, yeah. It's music and art. LaGuardia.

C (23:46)

Oh, yeah. Okay.

E (23:47)

New York City, you know, it's. It's a magnet for. For all of us. But, yeah, you know, it's great that you're bringing it to all schools. It should be. Music should be an all school.

C (23:57)

Yeah, it used to be, you know, it used to be. I mean, I went to a regular public school and we had a music class, you know. Know, most of us did in our generation, and that's just gone, you know.

B (24:07)

So, Ben, you are the. The professional drummer for Hadestown. Is that the case?

E (24:12)

Yeah, I'm the drummer on Hadestown. You know, I have subs, but I'm the main drummer, and I'm gonna be on your show next week.

B (24:18)

You're coming? It was my next question. We'll see you next Thursday, October 30th. Thanks for calling in, Ben.

C (24:27)

Very cool show, by the way. Very cool.

B (24:30)

Okay, I have to ask you about Born to run turning 50 this year.

C (24:34)

No. Is that your Time Flies?

B (24:36)

Was that your first. That was your first album, right?

C (24:38)

No, no, no, no, no. You mean once I joined the Easter. Erm, no, I actually wasn't on it. I visited those sessions.

B (24:45)

Okay.

C (24:46)

For Bruce. That's Bruce's third record and very critical record in his career. Of course. It kind of helped start to break them through. So, yeah, we went to a. There was a bit of a seminar thing done at the New Bruce archives down in Monmouth College, and we had a fun thing. We reunited all of the people involved with Born to Ryan, which is quite a funny group, and a lot of funny stories on that record, but very important, you know, the record holds up wonderfully well, is all I can say. This is really, really, really terrific album.

B (25:20)

And today is the release day for Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere, which chronicles the making of Nebraska. And in your memoir, Nebraska is among the most uncompromising and uncommercial recordings any major artist has ever released.

C (25:36)

Yeah.

B (25:36)

Do you still believe that? Yeah.

C (25:37)

Oh, absolutely. Because he didn't intend to release it. You know, it was in his mind at the time. It was demos for the Born in the USA album, you know, and the minute I heard it, I was like, man, these ain't no demos. I'm sorry. You know, this is like something extraordinary. And he was quite surprised, you know.

D (25:54)

Yeah.

C (25:56)

And. And, you know, it. It took. Took them months to realize it was an album, but I. I knew it. Right. I knew it right away. Which, you know, that part of the story is, you know, it sort of. It takes some of the drama out of the story, you know, so. But the mov. The movie is just terrific. It's an absolutely wonderful. A masterful work of art. And I. And I mean, you know, it's focused in a way that I'm hoping this younger generation can. Can get a chance to see this, because it's a different kind of movie in the sense of. It's like a. It's like an independent early 70s type of movie in that old school way of. The pacing is. Is very deliberate, meditative, you know, so it requires a bit of an adjustment from the modern world of, you know, cartoons and comic books and video games and special effects that most, you know, young people are seeing in the movies now, which is all wonderful and a lot of fun, but this is like old school filmmaking, and I hope young people get a chance to see this thing and. And just adjust to this, to the pace. It's a little bit slower than they used to, but the reward emotionally is enormous.

B (27:14)

Oh, it's a beautiful movie.

C (27:15)

I thought you saw it. You saw it? Yeah. I mean, it's just the most, you know, I mean, if you're not crying at the end of this movie, you're a zombie. I'm sorry. You know, it's the most. One of the most emotional things I've ever seen. And I don't think you have to even be a Bruce Springsteen fan or know anything about his work.

B (27:31)

It's about an artist trying to figure things out and figure himself out.

C (27:35)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. In spite of an initial success, you know, it's like, whoa, you know, am I losing control? You know, am I losing control of my. Of my destiny? I think that's part of what, you know, what Bruce had to be concerned with, you know, at the time, because, you know, things start to move quickly all of a sudden, after, you know, very slow. I mean, we didn't break through for, you know, 15 years. Yeah, right. You know, that's quite late, you know, in terms of a craft, you know, so at that point, you know, all of a sudden, it starts going 100 miles an hour, and, you know, he'll get a hold on with both hands. But anyway, I thought the movie was just fantastic, and I hope everybody gets a chance to see it and really enjoy real filmmaking. You know, that that's what filmmaking is all about. This Scott Cooper did a terrific job.

B (28:23)

Let's see if we can slide one more call in. This is Rocco calling in from Brooklyn.

C (28:27)

Hey, Rocco, my man.

E (28:29)

Hey, good afternoon. How are you?

C (28:32)

All right.

E (28:33)

I. I love you. And this is Prano. Man, you changed so much. It's unbelievable.

C (28:38)

Thank you, man. Thank you.

E (28:40)

Anyway, I come to the United States in 1971. No speaking no English. My English teacher, Mr. McAnella, which I never got to thank him while I was in high school, after school took me, my sister and two other kids from Cuba, I believe, and taught us English from, from flashcards, you know, it was just, it was just amazing. And he continued for like three, four years, even after we spoke English somewhat well. And luckily at the 45th high school reunion, he came and I got to thank him, you know.

C (29:21)

Oh, nice, nice.

E (29:23)

This is regular, I always say, with something special.

C (29:26)

Regular public school, right, or what?

E (29:29)

East Rockaway High School.

C (29:30)

Yeah, yeah. Nice, nice.

D (29:32)

Yeah.

E (29:32)

Was seventh grade through 12th grade.

B (29:36)

Rocco, thanks for calling in and shouting out your teacher.

C (29:39)

Yeah, we salute them.

B (29:40)

Are you working on anything new?

C (29:43)

Good question. I'm thinking about getting back on tv.

B (29:48)

Okay.

C (29:49)

I got five scripts of my own, five different pilot shows. And it doesn't have to be one of my scripts, but you know, if a good acting thing comes along, I'm gonna take it. So I'm just, just kind of having some meetings now and talking about that. So I think we're taking a break musically for a while. So, you know, in the music world and so, you know, I'm anxious to get back on tv. We'll see.

B (30:11)

Can you tell us maybe what one of them is about?

C (30:16)

Well, some of them, I play gangster, which people like, like me as a gangster. So, you know, I'm, you know, some of them involve that sometimes I'm a detective on a couple and I'd watch.

B (30:27)

You as a detective.

C (30:30)

You know, there's various different kinds of which. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens, you know.

B (30:38)

We shall see.

C (30:39)

Yeah.

B (30:40)

In the meantime, please support Teach Rock. It's by Stevie Van Zandt. It is a music education charity. Steve, thanks for coming to the studio.

C (30:49)

Really nice talking to you. They can find it@teachrock.org everything's there and it's all free. It's all free.

A (30:56)

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