J.T. Molnar (3:09)

It's, you know, it hasn't been quite as hard as you'd think because. And excuse me, I've been talking a lot the last few days since, since the movie premiered, I imagine.

Kousha Navadaraman (3:20)

We appreciate your time coming here.

J.T. Molnar (3:22)

Yeah, no, no, no. But sorry about my voice. Yeah, it's been interesting because the, the film, we wanted to make sure that even though there are shocks and surprises in the movie for some people, that if, you know, the, the surprises happen there. There are a number of them and they. And the biggest ones happen sort of in the middle so you can live in the reality of the movie and, and really go along for the ride of the movie in earnest, for, For a good portion of it. And even though I love the. Highly influenced by the works of Rod Serling and Alfred Hitchcock and, And you know, those great twisty movies, the early Shyamalan films that really have a great, you know, films like the others that have these great twists at the end, since that's been done so well before by so many great filmmakers and writers, we didn't want to attempt to go up against those sort of movies. We wanted to make sure this was about these two characters, what they're going through and the ride they take you on. And if you, you know, if you're surprised by the. The narrative, the narrative, the jarring narrative, narrative twists, then that's an extra. Added bonus. But we're hoping that. And it seems so far that, that, that the movie doesn't. You don't have to. Those don't have to surprise you for the enjoyment to, to still be there.

Kousha Navadaraman (4:57)

Right.

J.T. Molnar (4:57)

So I've been able to talk about the film with people like you and talk about this final girl archetype, you know, that, that I wanted to sort of deconstruct and find a different angle, a different approach to give her more nuance and just see a different perspective of her than I'd seen in some of my favorite classic horror films over the years.

Kousha Navadaraman (5:21)

Giovanni, you shot this movie on 35 millimeter film and the movie begins, I thought it was interesting with a giant message advertising that. That fact. Why that big message right at the top? And why is it getting a laugh?

Giovanni Ribisi (5:37)

Well, no, 35, you know, celluloid and film were, I think, the first thing that JT And I bonded on when we first met each other. We met in the context of the ASC Awards and the. The president of Kodak at the time, Steve Bellamy, introduced us. And, and, and I think that was about that. I think the five or six years ago or. I don't know when it was. We. Yeah, we go back and forth. Yeah, it's just something that, that for. For us and with this story specifically. But really kind of overall, there. There's just no other option. There's just something that over the last 150 years we got right with film and celluloid. And it's just something that we're drawn to. And that's not to say that great movies haven't been made on digital formats. It's just for this. That was just part of the whole. The fabric of the movie really.

Kousha Navadaraman (6:50)

What is it, about 35 mil? Yeah, go ahead. We're going.

J.T. Molnar (6:52)

Could I just add one thing there? I think obviously, Giovani did just beautiful work and, and the, the visuals were so, you know, clearly realized. I think I'm just incredibly impressed with what he was able to achieve, obviously. But I wanted to. I wanted to just mention that card at the beginning of the movie. It's. It. I think nowadays there are people, sometimes some people. It's actually not for. A lot of people think that that announcement of 35 millimeter is for like, cinephiles, people who appreciate celluloid. It really. The. The goal of it was sort of to. It was for people who are more casual movie watchers, you know, relatives of mine back east who like to go to movies but aren't obsessed with movies 24 hours a day, like, like Vonnie and I are. So they'll go to a film and they'll feel something. The look will make them feel something and it'll make them feel something special. And I want them to know why, you know, because I, you know, we love film so much and like Vonnie said, I totally respect and admire. There's so many great movies that I've liked over the last, you know, couple decades that were shot digitally. However, there's just something so special about film on so many levels. And if there's other people who have a similar sensibility and it gives them a good feeling, a comforting feeling when they're watching the film, I'd love them to know why and what the difference is and what sort of paint we used. I just think it's a nice thing, is that.

Kousha Navadaraman (8:37)

Yeah, go ahead, Siobhan. Yeah, go ahead.

Giovanni Ribisi (8:39)

Also. Yeah, there's also just something to be said that, that, you know, there's something that's really not, you know, in the context of the digital filmmaking environment, but also just maybe perhaps the general zeitgeist. There's something about shooting film that's not convenient. And it's, it's, it's a little bit more challenging. And you have to put a little bit more thought into the creative process. And I think that's something that we respond to. And you can see that there's a sort of desperation there in the fabric of the film. And I don't know, it's just, again, there really wasn't another option for us.

Kousha Navadaraman (9:28)

Yeah. We're gonna take a quick break. We're talking with J.T. molnar, the writer and director, and Giovanni Ribisi, the cinematograph from the new movie Strange Darling, which is in theaters today. When we come back from the break, we're gonna go into more of the archetypes that you were talking about, jt and also what it's like to be an actor turned director of photography. For you, Giovanni, let's, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Kousha Navadar, and we are talking about the new film Strange Darling, which is out in theater today. We're talking with the writer and director, J.T. molnar and Giovanni Ribisi, who is the cinematographer. Before the break, jt, we had talked about archetypes that you were trying to play with. And actually during the break, we got a call which we're not going to take. I want to avoid spoilers here, but the caller was touching on some of the archetypes on the female lead that you had mentioned. Questions about race, questions about assumptions, which we're not going to go into. But I think it's a great tee up for you to talk a little bit more about the archetypes you wanted to play with in a serial killer film as much as you can. Can you go into that a little bit more?

J.T. Molnar (10:49)

Sure, sure. Yeah. It felt, it felt like, in a way, fertile ground. I had this image that came to me very early on, before any of the story came. And it was a woman in distress running through the woods. I could hear music in slow motion in hospital scrubs. And she just was the, she was a trope, essentially, that she was the quintessential final girl, Laurie Strode from Halloween. And I was wondering why this image was so compelling. And it kept coming back to me. Because I thought, well, that's traditional. What is there to this image that's going to be interesting and why should I write this? And so as it continued to develop, I realized that, you know, what if there's another angle? Because once again, there's almost no reason to do. There's been. There have been so many great horror films, you know, and why, why. Why do. Why try and go up against those movies and do the same thing? The same reason I probably would never make a gangster movie because Goodfellas is sitting right there, you know, And. And so with this, I didn't really become obsessed with writing it until the rest of the story came to me and I realized, wow, what if there's more to our version of the Final Girl? And what if we start creating an exercise in subverting expectations and playing with people's assumptions and stereotypes? You.

Kousha Navadaraman (12:32)

And, you know, sorry, finish. Finish your thought.

J.T. Molnar (12:35)

No. And so then it became really fun to, you know, create these characters that seemed like they were one thing and these situations that seem like they're one thing, but then there's so much more to them, you know, when we go back and see what got them there. And that became very compelling to me. And I felt like it was a. It's hard to find sometimes, but I felt like it was a fresh angle to show very familiar, very familiar scenarios from. And if you can find a fresh angle and a new vantage point, then to me, it's worth telling the story. And so it's been a great joy telling the story.

Kousha Navadaraman (13:16)

You know, you mentioned music being key to the movie. We have the clip of the COVID of Love Hurts to Open the Film, which is what you're referring to. Let's take a listen to that cover from Zeeberg and Keith Carradine made specifically for this film.

J.T. Molnar (13:48)

Love Scars.

Giovanni Ribisi (13:51)

Love Wounds and Marks.

J.T. Molnar (13:58)

Any other.

Kousha Navadaraman (14:03)

Jt, why that song?

J.T. Molnar (14:07)

When I'm working on a screenplay and it's going well. And by the way, I don't mean going well like the audiences or critics are going to like it. I just mean it's going well for me in that vacuum, when it feels like it's going well and it's working, it's because I'm going by instinct and feeling. Because it's much more important for me to convey a feeling to an audience than some message or deliberate, you know, deliberate narrative point. And so with this, everything was about a feeling. I was listening to a lot of Chopin during the process, and it just. It invoked the feeling of what I was trying to get across in those gear shifts between chapters. And then for some reason, this song that the. The original Emmylou Harris version, I think is a beautiful song. Graham Parsons and Emmy Lou, but it's not necessarily my favorite song. I think I. I was just hiking one day and thinking about this story, and it just started playing. I had earphones in, and I knew that it meant so much to the narrative. Like this narrative that was developing that had a lot to do with relationships. You know, I also knew that Z Berg was going to be key, and she was going to be kind of the life's blood of our movie. Her. Her. Her vocal sound, her songwriting. And so I thought, you know, we had. The goal was to have Z Berg do a single artist soundtrack for this and write original songs for the movie. So once the. The specific. But I knew there was this specific idea to have Love Hurts over this run. And I said, how's that fit in with the flavor we're going to create? And. And I called Z and I was like, I know how this works. You know, we need to have Love Hurts in this movie. Hopefully Miramax will. Will pay for it, but why don't you cover it? And then she had the idea to bring in Keith Carradine, who had done a movie for Robert Altman's Nashville or done a song for Robert Altman's Nashville last time he did a song for a movie. And they just did this beautiful cover, and it really, really worked for the movie, in my opinion.

Kousha Navadaraman (16:13)

We're talking to J.T. molnar and Giovanni Ribisi from Strange Darlings, a new film that's out in theaters today. Giovanni. The use of color and contrast in this film really stuck out to me, and I'd love to talk about that a little bit. Let's about this pivotal scene in the movie between our two leads before things have gone south where they're smoking and flirting in the car outside a motel, and the whole scene is bathed in. In the blue light from this motel sign.

J.T. Molnar (16:43)

It's.

Kousha Navadaraman (16:43)

It's very gripping. How did you and JT Decide that. That blue would be the best color for that scene?

Giovanni Ribisi (16:50)

Well, I. J.T. and I had conversations for, I think, four or five months leading up to production, and it was just so incredible. It was just such a great creative period for me because we were kind of in our own bubble, talking about the film, watching movies, talking about logistics and. And. And establishing concepts that sort of became a foundation or an MO that would inform every other creative decision. And so one of the things that was really important for us was to try to create a world that felt more or less like the darker recesses of a fairy tale. And we had our mission statement, as JT has said before, was blood on the flower bed. And so. And then, and then there was a third factor there for us that I think was really important, was just like the notion of trying to look away from what the, the current creative zeitgeist or whatever that is, whatever's going on that's been sort of generated out of streaming and, and again, sort of like digital psychologies where, you know, filmmaking really, there's a certain, I guess, resulting in homogeny or something that we know. I mean, and so we. Again, not that it's all bad or wrong, it's just. We just wanted to kind of do something different and really use that as a creative impetus to just. Even if it's wrong, just do that. Right?

Kousha Navadaraman (18:35)

Yeah.

Giovanni Ribisi (18:36)

And so I think that, you know, the idea of taking a scene and putting these two people in, what originally was the purpose was making them feel like they were sort of in these black holes, you know, with, with a, a focal point of blue in this, you know, in this dark truck. And the idea of doing that, bathing them in blue light for, you know, this eight page scene or something to that effect in the script just resonated with us. It was just, it almost felt irreverent.

J.T. Molnar (19:14)

Yeah, we really, we were, we were. Watch. There was just a feeling at the time too, and both of us were feeling this way for whatever reason and inspired by, you know, a lot of the films that had weaponized color. You know, movies like Cries and Whispers, Bergman and Blue Velvet and the Devils, you know, and so we knew we wanted to use color as weaponry here and we wanted to use primary colors and, and really push certain emotional, emotional beats and, and, and character. And character beats with those different primary colors throughout the film. And, and that, yeah, that scene had to be blue and we knew we were going to get some, some.

Giovanni Ribisi (20:04)

And it really, you know, I mean, it could have been a completely different scene. Same light, same camera, same lenses, same form. Everything had it. But, but the, the performances and the editing and the direction from JT really made it sing, you know, I mean, that could, that's something that could go really off the rails.

Kousha Navadaraman (20:26)

Well, Giovanni, when you're describing the ways in which you were thinking about having like, for instance, two characters, each stuck in their own black holes, their own, their own voids, it. There's such a clear connection between the visual choices you're making and the Performance choices. And you live on both sides of that. In your career. When you were going into production, was there anything specific you knew you wanted to do as a cinematographer to support the actors that maybe a cinematographer did for you in another project when you were an actor?

Giovanni Ribisi (20:55)

Wow. Yeah. I mean, it's so grateful, sort of for. I mean, really, truly any cinematographer, you know, and what they do for an actor, because it's. It becomes so important, I think, over the last 15 years, you really realize what a. You know, the difference that a 25 millimeter lens can do to somebody's performance as opposed to a 75. But also, you know, editing is. I think, you know, films are made in the editing room. And that's such an understated factor in filmmaking for me, that the difference. I mean, and I don't want to say that because. Because I'm an actor, but I. But even just as a fan of movies, I'm watching a Hero's Journey, and that's an individual. And this becomes the focal point. Usually if there's a person in a movie that were following their story. And so everything comes down to that. And as a result, as an offshoot, as far as the image is concerned with that, there really becomes, you know, only one place to put a camera. And I think part of the. What's so fascinating about photography is trying to discover that and understand what that is. And so I've been saying this to people where, you know, from acting, you start from a subjective perspective and you're building the character from really from the inside out. And cinematography is the inversion of that where it's more of an objective thing. And you're trying to bring it back down to a subjective experiential feeling.

Kousha Navadaraman (22:45)

Oh, it's interesting because I hear. I hear this idea of subversion in some ways that's percolating throughout all of the different ways that we're talking about this movie, which has been so lovely. Unfortunately. Got to put a pin in it there. But suffice to say, this is a movie with a lot going on. It's Strange, Darling. It's in theaters today. We've been talking to J.T. molner, who's the writer and director, and Giovanni Ribisi, the cinematographer. Thank you both so much for your work and for. And for joining us today.

J.T. Molnar (23:12)

Thank you so much for having us.

WNYC Announcer (23:15)

Since WNYC's first broadcast in 1924, we've been dedicated to creating the kind of content we know the world needs. Since then, New York Public Radio's rigorous journalism has gone on to win a Peabody Award and a Dupont Columbia Award, among others. In addition to this award winning reporting, your sponsorship also supports inspiring storytelling and extraordinary music that is free and accessible to all. To get in touch and find out more, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.