D (3:12)

Yeah, so it's, it's an Interesting time 250 years ago tomorrow because we're, we're several months out from the vote for independence and the, in the signing of the Declaration of Independence. And the, the nation is really wrestling with the complexities of the moment. So there's increasing frustration and increasing sense that we are heading toward a fracturing with Great Britain, but also a sense of fear, a sense of that being an impossibility and also a sense of what comes after that. And that feeling incredib, overwhelming. And because of that, what Paine is able to do so clearly and so persuasively for people who aren't already part of the political elite who are fighting for independence, it just makes what he did so critical for really galvanizing support amongst the general public.

E (4:21)

So Thomas Paine was in England until 1774 when Ben Franklin invited him to Philadelphia, when what was he like as a politician, as a leader?

D (4:33)

So he was not a political leader, not a colonial insider, as you said. He didn't get here until 1774. He was a struggling English tradesman. He had a series of modest jobs, very little formal education. I think that's probably pretty difficult for people to conceive of given the rhetorical power that Common Sense still has. And you know, the fact that we're celebrating this pamphlet 250 years later as one of, you know, the very early historical milestones that we'll celebrate in our nation's semi quincentennial year probably would have been a pretty extraordinary thing for a younger Thomas Paine to conceive of for himself and for his future.

E (5:19)

What did conversations about independence look like before Common Sense?

D (5:25)

It was pretty wide ranging, right. And we know this up until and through the Revolutionary War, that there were still loyalists to, to the Crown. And so, you know, you have people who are very much so agitating for separation. And then you also have a not insignificant size of the population that wanted reconciliation and wanted to stay united with Great Britain.

E (5:54)

We're talking about Common Sense, the revolutionary pamphlet by Thomas Paine that made the case that the 13 colonies that they should declare independence from Great Britain. It was published 250 years ago tomorrow. My guest is Julie Silverbrook, Vice President of Civic education at the National Constitution center in Philadelphia. So let's get into the body of Common Sense. I'm sure many people have heard of it. Some people have read it in college and read it in high school. But you Picked out a little section to read. Could you set up this excerpt for us?

D (6:28)

I can, but I cheated. I have two. They're short and I. One I picked because it really sets out what Payne's goal was and why he wrote the way that he did. And the other is a message that I think the nation would really benefit from hearing at this moment in our nation's history. So if you'll permit me. They're short. I will read both.

E (6:55)

Go for it.

D (6:57)

All right. So the first one is. In the following pages, I offer nothing more than simple facts, plain arguments and common sense, and have no other preliminaries to settle with the reader than that he will divest himself of prejudice and prepossession and suffer his reason and his feelings to determine for themselves that he will put on, or rather, that he will not put off, the true character of a man and generously enlarge his views beyond the present day. That's the first passage. The second, which really sets up what he's trying to do in Common Sense, is he wants you to set aside your prejudices, listen to his facts and plain arguments, and use your common sense to arrive at support for independence. And that's what he does, and he achieves that. The second is, I think, just an enduring message from common sense that is so important. And I think it's just a great passage for us to reflect on at this moment in our nation's history and really thinking about some of the goals for our nation's semiquincentennial year. It says, wherefore, instead of gazing at each other with suspicious or doubtful curiosity, let each of us hold out to his neighbor the hearty hand of friendship and unite in drawing a line which, like an act of oblivion, shall bury in forgetfulness every former dissension. Let the names of Whig and Torrey be extinct, and let none other be heard among us than those of a good citizen, an open and resolute friend, and a virtuous supporter of the rights of mankind and of the free and independent states of America.

E (8:42)

Thank you for reading that passage, by the way.

B (8:45)

I wanted to talk about something that he said early on in Common Sense. He says that government, by its nature is, quote, a necessary evil. So what did he think about the way we should be governed?

D (9:02)

Yeah, this is a great point. So he was a proponent of self government, and he believed, as all of the great political thinkers of our nation's founding believed, that in order for us to govern ourselves as a collective, we have to start by governing ourselves as individuals. So he believed very deeply in the virtues of good citizenship. That's part of why I read the second passage that I read. And so as you know and as you noted in your intro, very firmly rejected monarchy. But another reason that he creates some emotional distance, I suppose you can say from government is because part of the anxiety people are feeling in this moment is that if government is by divine right or hereditary monarchy, that seems insurmountable to change. But if government is in fact a necessary evil or an instrument right for the greater good, then that means that we actually can change government to be a more effective instrument for the public good. And that's a really important not only rhetorical point, but philosophical point about government. Because what, what the colonists are about to do is not just declare independence, but to set itself on a course for creating an entirely new system of government. One, by the way, that through Article 5 of the US Constitution allows for us to change right that governing document through the amendment process.

E (10:52)

I am talking to Julie Silverbrook, Vice President of Civic Education at the National Constitution center in Philadelphia. We are talking about Common Sen. Which was published 250 years ago tomorrow in the pamphlet, second section page turns from secular arguments to religious ones. Why was it important to make a faith based argument for independence?

D (11:20)

So this is a pretty religious country now and especially back then. And actually not only do you see, see this sort of, and you see this natural rights language in the declaration itself, you know, the laws of nature and nature is God. And that's really important and resonant that these are rights that predate any government right. These are rights given to you by nature or by God. And so that really won't makes self government central. And I think it also combats this notion of monarchy that any one person or family could be designated by God to have the right to rule over other people. And how could that be if all people are created equal by God? There's another reason, and you see this, is that there was quite a bit of discussion of the revolution in places of religious worship, primarily churches at the time to help galvanize public support. So there was a real feeling that making this a divinely inspired cause, also making it a cause not just for the colonists but for the world, gave a sense of weight and purpose to what the colonists were trying to achieve through independence. And there is an incredible amount of rhetorical and emotional power to making that argument.

B (13:07)

One of the foundational principles of the United States is one of freedom of religion and also freedom from religion. So how did the political minds of the day square those two arguments, secular versus religious grounds.

D (13:24)

It wasn't so neat back then. The, you know, while there was a very, you know, important commitment to freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, and there was this anti establishment, so the rejection of the establishment of an official religion or an official church like they had in England, there wasn't this sense that these worlds had to be totally separated at that time. There is a sense that if you allow any one religion to effectively become an established religion, that in fact impairs religious liberty. But the idea that you can't use religious language to persuade on a secular pursuit, you'll be hard pressed to find very much from this period that does not use religious language in pursuit of secular political aims.

B (14:37)

The pamphlet Common Sense became one of the most widely circulated pieces of writing in America at the time. How did Common Sense get from Penn's mind and his pen out into the.

A (14:51)

Public.

D (14:53)

So he publishes the, the pamphlet? We don't know exactly. There's some debate over exactly how many pamphlets end up getting printed and distributed. But we do know that it was one of the most popular pieces of political writing at the time. And some of the success does have to do with the fact that some influential people recognize that this was a very powerful piece of political rhetoric that was written in terms that could be understood by less well educated people. And so it was sort of the combination of this being promoted and the fact that people who were not part of the political elite could read this and understand it. Right. It resonated with them, it made rational sense and it also made them feel less afraid of pursuing independence and more inspired by the promise, not just for them personally, but for the world and for posterity.

E (16:07)

What was the direct response from the Brits or from Loyalists?

D (16:13)

You know, you might imagine that an attack not just on the King of England, but on the idea of monarchy. Right. He rejects monarchy itself. He doesn't really pull any punches. Right. He's saying this is irrational and unjust, that no person or family has a natural right to govern others. This is pretty harsh language challenging the legitimacy of kingship. Not really one that goes down easily for monarchists at the time.

E (16:54)

What ideas about American identity today would you associate with Thomas Paine's common sense?

D (17:02)

I want to start with the, with the first one. And it's one that's so resonant for me and the work that we do at the National Constitution Center. It's why I love that this is an early celebration for the country in 2026. It's because for me, it reminds us that our nation's ideals actually matter most when they're accessible, resonant and relevant to everyday Americans. And this is what we try to do at the National Constitution center is help people engage with those ideas in a meaningful and enduring way. And so I just want to start with that. The idea that political ideals and decision making and government is something that should be accessible and relevant and important to you, no matter who you are and where you live, is a very important message to be shared for all generations of Americans, and one that I just want to underscore and that I'm very glad is helping us kick off this year. The other is really the idea that society and government is for the common good, that self government, the consent of the governed, is the most legitimate form of government. And as I said earlier, that self government requires first and foremost government of the self, that we be virtuous people, and that we have a country that through the generations it creates virtuous, informed, engaged citizens who are self consciously governing themselves in a constitutional democracy. And it doesn't get. You don't wake up just because you're born here in the United States. With all of the knowledge and wisdom of this generation or any generation in American history, we have to teach it. Whether you're a parent, you're a teacher, you're doing it right now, today. And in the work that you do every day, we have to self consciously do that. And this is a tough moment, right, because there's so much noise, there's so many places for people to get information. We have to do it in a resonant and relevant way. And so each generation, our challenge is, is to do it well, to do it. How do you become the next Common Sense? You had the great Schoolhouse Rock playing earlier, which is such an earworm. I'm going to be singing that song for the rest of the day with my kids. It's just, we just have.

B (19:34)

We just have to do it.

D (19:36)

We just have to do it. We have to break through. And you have to be, you have to be creative in your arguments and you have to be persuasive and you have to be thinking about everyday people, not just the people who are already heavily invested.

B (19:47)

Julie Silverbrook is the Vice President of Civic Education at the National Constitution center in Philadelphia. Thank you so much for your time and listeners. Tomorrow, beginning at 12:30, our friends at Fraunces Tavern in lower Manhattan, they're hosting a reading of, of Thomas Paine's Common Sense. It's open to the public and free with museum admission. And if you happen to be more local to New Rochelle, the Thomas Paine Historical association is housed there and we'll also be holding a reading, free and open to the public at 2pm Since.

A (20:18)

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