'The Brutalist' Cinematographer Lol Crawley

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – Episode: 'The Brutalist' Cinematographer Lal Crowley
Host: Alison Stewart
Release Date: February 28, 2025

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All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart on WNYC, delves deep into the intricacies of culture and the creative minds that shape it. In this episode, part of the Big Picture series, Alison interviews Lal Crowley, the Oscar-nominated cinematographer behind the acclaimed film "The Brutalist." The conversation explores Crowley's innovative use of vintage technology, his collaborative process with director Brady Courbet, and the artistic challenges faced during the film's production.

Introduction to "The Brutalist"

Alison Stewart sets the stage by highlighting the film's ambitious narrative and its technical prowess. "The Brutalist," which follows Hungarian architect Laszlo Toth through his tumultuous career, stands out not only for its expansive storytelling but also for its unique cinematographic approach. The film has garnered 10 Academy Award nominations, including Best Picture and Best Cinematography for Lal Crowley.

Collaborations and Creative Synergy

Crowley's collaboration with director Brady Courbet is a cornerstone of the film's success. Reflecting on their partnership, Crowley states:

"He's incredibly assured, but also very pragmatic... he's a fantastic collaborator to work with. It's a real honor." (03:04)

This mutual respect and understanding have allowed them to push creative boundaries, particularly in their choice to utilize VistaVision, a film technology from the 1950s revived for this project.

Embracing VistaVision

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the decision to shoot "The Brutalist" using VistaVision. Crowley elaborates on the creative freedoms this technology afforded:

"VistaVision was not an affectation or a gimmick, that it really earned its place with the Brutalist." (05:45)

Unlike modern digital formats, VistaVision offers a horizontal shooting format akin to still photography, providing a larger negative area and a wider field of view. This was pivotal in capturing the sprawling architectural landscapes central to the film's narrative.

Nick Emerson, the film editor, echoes the enthusiasm for VistaVision:

"If you have this wider field of view, it meant that you weren't forced onto a wider angle lens... So you can photograph it without distorting it." (05:50)

This technology enabled the team to authentically portray the 1950s setting without compromising the integrity of the architectural designs.

Artistic Techniques and Lighting

Crowley emphasizes the importance of lighting in storytelling, particularly in "The Brutalist." He shares insights into their meticulous approach:

"Light within this film is incredibly important... it's about sort of being devoid of light and then sort of reaching for the light." (07:30)

Collaborating closely with production designer Judy Becker, Crowley ensured that the lighting complemented the austere brutalist architecture, enhancing the emotional depth of Laszlo Toth's character.

Overcoming Production Challenges

One of the standout moments discussed is the filming of a pivotal scene where characters traverse a fading light landscape. Crowley recounts the logistical hurdles:

"We managed to achieve it in that time. And it was extraordinary. It was a very exhilarating but stressful scene to shoot." (12:53)

The team had to synchronize their shots precisely within a narrow window of natural light, relying on the expertise of their Steadicam operator and the dedication of the cast to deliver a seamless performance.

Adrien Brody’s Magnetic Performance

A highlight of the conversation is Crowley's admiration for Adrien Brody's portrayal of Laszlo Toth:

"He just has this arresting quality, magnetic quality... there's this real sense through his expression of what this character has been through." (15:01)

Brody's nuanced performance, combined with Crowley's lighting techniques, brings a palpable depth to the character, making Laszlo's journey both compelling and relatable.

The Film's Critical and Commercial Success

Reflecting on the film's reception, Crowley expresses his pride and hopes for its lasting impact:

"I really firmly hope that this film will be also some inspiration to other filmmakers that want to shoot on film... the reception has been incredible." (16:52)

"The Brutalist" not only achieved critical acclaim but also resonated with audiences, becoming a cultural touchstone that champions the continued use of traditional film techniques in modern cinema.

Conclusion

Alison Stewart wraps up the interview by commending Crowley's exceptional work, underscoring his nomination for Best Cinematography. The episode transitions to the next segment, promising insights into film editing with Nick Emerson's upcoming discussion on Conclave.

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This episode of All Of It offers a profound exploration of cinematographic artistry, showcasing how Lal Crowley's dedication to his craft and innovative techniques have elevated "The Brutalist" to a standout film in contemporary cinema.

Transcript

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[Nick Emerson]

Listener supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. The Oscars are this weekend and it's shaping up to be a very unpredictable year in the major categories. Who will take home Best Picture? Will the drama around Emilia Perez tank Zoe Saldana's chances at snagging that Best Supporting Actress winning? And speaking of Best Actress, it still seems like anyone's game. But today we're going to take a break from those categories and shine a light on some of the talented Oscar nominees who worked behind the camera to make great movies in 2024. We call this series the Big Picture. Later this hour we'll discuss how editing can help make a papal election feel like a thriller with Oscar nominated film editor Nick Emerson. And we'll hear about the detailed decisions that went into creating period accurate costumes for Nosferatu designer Linda Muir. But first, let's get this started with the Brutalist. Part of the magic of the movie, the Brutalist is in its ambition. That ambition is in the size and scope of the story. It follows Hungarian architect Laszlo Toth over the course of many years. The highs and the lows. But that ambition is also the technology used to shoot the film. Technology handled by my next guest that's Oscar nominated cinematographer Lal Crowley. Lal and director Brady Courbet used Vista Vision on the Brutalist. The technology was invented in the 1950s and used by Alfred Hitchcock before eventually falling out of use. The Brutalist is the first American film in more than 60 years to shoot with VistaVision to achieve epic scenes. Lal worked with this technology to shoot in Italian marble quarries, rainy work sites and empty furniture stores. The Brutalist has been nominated for 10 Academy Awards, including Best Picture. Lal is nominated for Best Cinematography for.

[Lal Crowley]

His work on the film and earlier.

[Alison Stewart]

This month he took home the prize for Best Cinematography at at the BAFTAs. This is Lal's third time working with Brady Courbet, so I began our conversation by asking what made them good collaborators.

[Nick Emerson]

From the very first time I worked with him, I realized what an assured filmmaker he is. He has, he's very, he's, he's incredibly assured, but also very pragmatic and sort of as long as the themes of the scene within the scene come across. He's very happy to. He's very strong collaborators, very happy to find different ways of achieving it. So he's not overly precious, you know, and as he would say, he, he kind of moves the sand around in the sandbox, you know, in order to sort of, you know, put the budget where he feels it needs to be to tell the story. Yeah, he's a fantastic collaborator to work with. It's a real honor.

[Lal Crowley]

All right, we're going to talk VistaVision for a while. What was your reaction to learning that Brady Courbet wanted to shoot this film on VistaVision?

[Nick Emerson]

I was incredibly excited. I mean, we've always shot 35 Milo on, on, on the three films each. Each of the, each film is a period film, obviously in different periods. And Vox Lux, the last film we made was a more recent period. But, you know, we've always felt that film help to, to, to serve that purpose and tell that story. And we've always been interested in larger formats. And so when, when Brady invited me to shoot the Brutalist, he. He was very excited about the idea of VistaVision. Yeah. And, and so I had worked with the VistaVision cameras as a camera assistant on a Star wars movie a long time ago, 25 years ago, if not more. It could be that that same camera that I loaded was the same camera that I shot. No, there aren't. There aren't that. There aren't that many of those cameras around. So. Yeah, and also I think for a movie like this, you know, the VistaVision camera system, even though it's still 35 mil, it essentially shoots horizontally like a stills camera would. So you end up with a larger negative area and, and a. Subsequently a larger field of view to capture, as you said, the vistas and the, and the architecture that Laszlo Toth creates, you know, so I firmly believed from the very beginning that VistaVision was not an affectation or a gimmick, that it really earned its place with the Brutalist.

[Alison Stewart]

What did it allow you to do creatively as a cinematographer?

[Nick Emerson]

Yeah, so essentially, traditionally, if you were trying to photograph. If you were trying to photograph architecture, you'd work with a system called swing and tilt or swing and shift lenses, which is basically a way of not distorting the true lines of the architecture. Now, obviously, filming the Institute and filming these architectural spaces, when we used VistaVision, because you have this wider field of view, it meant that you weren't forced onto a wider angle lens in order to photograph it, if that makes sense. So you can work on a longer lens, but still see far more of the space. So therefore, with Judy Becker's designs, which were obviously, you know, Laszlo's designs, and these concrete spaces, these brutalist spaces, these wonderful spaces of architecture, it meant that we could photograph it without distorting it by being forced onto a wider lens, you know. And so that was along, along with the side, the fact that Brady wanted to use a camera system from the 1950s to tell story that is largely. That largely takes place in the 1950s. They seem two incredible reasons to me to shoot the movie that way.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Law Crowley. He is cinematographer. He is nominated for best cinematography in this year's Oscar race. It's part of our Big Picture series.

[Lal Crowley]

I think people don't realize this, but a cinematographer, part of your. Your job is lighting a scene. It's not just taking a picture of a scene or going after it. Tell people why it's important, the lighting.

[Nick Emerson]

Well, I mean, certainly within this film, it's incredibly important because the more I talk about this film and the more. The more distance I have from it in many Subway Gods, I mean, it. It. The whole movie is about light and dark. It's kind of extraordinary. Like the. Even when. Even when Laszlo seems at his kind of most hedonistic or sort of joint, you know, sort of. Sort of joyful or having these kind of moments, he's actually kind of in a very, very dark space. So there's lots of, you know, scenes within a jazz club or scene early on where he's at a brothel or, you know, obviously at the beginning of the ship, the beginning of the scene where he's in the ship. So it's all about sort of being devoid of light and then sort of reaching for the light in some regards. So. So light within this film is incredibly important. And I had to work very closely with Judy Becker, our production designer, because all of those scenes kind of reflect the design of the institute that Laszlo eventually, eventually constructs in the second half of the movie. But. But talking about light, as a cinematographer, I'm also somebody who. I learned early on that some of the time I'm booked as a. I'm employed as a cinematographer to leave the lighting truck doors closed. You know, it's not always about imposition. I. You know, in some regards, it's almost like insurance policy, having a lighting truck I don't always have to use. You know, don't always have to make a claim. And I think part of my job is to recognize when it's appropriate to the scene to to use available light, you know. But I've also been very heavily influenced by a lot of cinematographers that work the same way, like Robbie Mueller and Robbie Ryan, and people like. It's to, you know, sometimes the. The way the light is behaving, the natural daylight is. Is more than enough, you know.

[Lal Crowley]

Let's talk about the opening scene. Well, people have seen it on the poster in the Statue of Liberty is upside Down. I love this scene in the movie. First of all, what did it look like on paper? And how did you trans transfer that to. To cinema?

[Nick Emerson]

Yeah, well, I mean, again. Again, it was a sort of evolution. I mean, it was definitely scripted in this way. I mean, the reality, as we all know that is if you. Oh, you know, all of us. But if you've been lucky enough to sort of see the Statue of Liberty from New York harbor, you'll know it's a very specific thing. And so if we had shot it in a way that had been a literal way and a. And a continuation of what is quite a literal scene, handheld, following Adrian Brody's character up to the. To the deck of the ship, that literal continuation would have been. Possibly. Would have been slightly underwhelming in the sense that you're seeing the Statue upon a plinth, upon an island, you know, and. Sure, of course, but it's. It's not as arresting as, I think, what we ultimately came up with. And the idea also of this. I mean, I was talking about it last night, but it's interesting because there. If you. I know this seems like a strange reference, but if you look at Ghostbusters or Planet of the Apes, the thing about those. And Brutalist. The thing is the three. Those three movies. The strangest thing is the way that the. The Statue of Liberty has been sort of reinterpreted, you know, and something is very much amiss when, you know, we. It's. I mean, I didn't grow up in America, and yet the Statue of Liberty represents such. Such a firm thing, you know, such a. Something that cannot be sort of like, ripped out from its moorings and cannot be upturned and end up in a beach in California or be untethered in the way that we did, you know, and. But it's so. I mean, it can't. You know, Brady sort of the idea evolved, and then David Jancho, our editor, sort of flipped and rotated the image and. And, you know, so between us, we kind of had this idea, but it. But what's. What's interesting is that it's not A literal representation of what Laszlo would see. But it represents. You know, I mean, people have different theories of it, but, you know, it could represent. You know, it could be seen to represent that to an immigrant. The solidity, the. The. The. The hope, the. The stoic liberty that she represents is. Is not necessarily what will evolve for Laszlo.

[Alison Stewart]

You told the Hollywood Reporter that one of the most difficult scenes for you to shoot was the scene where Van Buren is showing the group the property that he wants to turn into this community center that he wants Laszlo to design. And they're walking up this big hill, and it's. It's. Well, people can't see my hands, but they're walking up a big hill. What was challenging about getting this scene right so that people could understand where they were and what was happening?

[Nick Emerson]

Yeah, I mean, the. The. The. The. Well, I mean, it wasn't necessarily anything geographically disorientating for the viewer, but the tricky thing. So the scene that precedes it, basically, it's, you know, the. The. The light is fading. The light is fading. And, you know, we're in this winter time. So it's kind of half an. In reality, it would be half an hour to 45 minutes of available light, you know, between sunset and darkness. Right. And then the group, Will Van Buren just says an announcement and they all leave the house. And so there's this one shot of them crossing the bridge, which we shot actually as the light was fading. Because you can. If it's one shot, you. You can. You can. You know, you can achieve that. It's very difficult to shoot a scene that. That follows in available light because there's lots. You know, there's lots of shots to achieve it. You know. However, in this one instance, we actually did. I mean, it's quite remarkable. We had an amazing Steadicam operator called Attila Feffer in. In. And a really amazing camera. Camera assisting team and fantastic performers that nailed this. I mean, the supporting actors. But, you know, obviously Guy. Guy Pierce and Adrian Brody nailed this scene under. Under Brady's direction in 45 minutes. So it was a rare thing where, had we not achieved it, we would have had to come back and the weather may have been different or, you know, but we managed to achieve it in that time. And it was extraordinary. It was a very exhilarating but, you know, stressful, stressful scene to shoot.

[Lal Crowley]

There are just all these beautiful, beautiful setups in the film. Whether it's the marble mines in Italy, whether it's a reunion scene, whether it's the gorgeous library But I'm curious about Adrien Brody's face. What is it about Adrien Brody's face that a cinematographer loves?

[Nick Emerson]

I think, I mean Brady has alluded to this and I would completely agree. Like there's one of the. I think it's. I think it's an image that is on a lot of the press and the posters in the cinemas, but the moment where Adrian steps up in this kind of shower of sparks from his welded modernist furniture, you know, and he steps forward in the glow of that Brady has said, you know, he, he looks like a. A 50s icon. You know, he. He looks like that. And I think it's, it's an absolute pleasure to shoot. He just has this. I mean he also has this arresting quality, magnetic quality and I think. And obviously he, he. Yeah, he's. He just feels like Laszlo Toth. I mean, it's funny, I can't divide the two now. I mean, even though Laszlo is a fictitious character, which is also quite remarkable because it's such an incredibly well rounded performance and well rounded piece of direction and writing from Brady and Mona. Yeah, it's just, it's just extraordinary. He just has incredible feature and I think there's a. He has wonderful features, but he also just this, there's this real often sort of pathos or a kind of melancholy and just the torture, the sort of. You really get a sense through his expression really what this character has been through.

[Alison Stewart]

The film has been beloved by critics, beloved by audiences. It's three plus hours with an intermission. What has it been like seeing a film like the Brutalists become such a success?

[Nick Emerson]

It's been extraordinary. I mean. Yeah, it's been so many things. I mean the awards and the nominations are one thing in themselves and of course they are wonderful to achieve. I've never experienced anything like this, but I really firmly hope that this film will be also some. An inspiration to other filmmakers that want to shoot on film, to other filmmakers that want to make a longer film, to. You know, I hope it'll be easier for Brady on it, on his, on his next film. You know, I, I think I'm really, really proud of that. You know, that it, that hopefully it will be. It will. It. You know, we love shooting film and there have been times, as we all know, over the last sort of 15 years or so, that film has really, really had a tough time. And we've had wonderful filmmakers like Tarantino and Christopher Nolan and Paul Thomas Anderson, you know, and Brady who have all really, you know, have really kind of tried to shoot film. And the way to, to keep shooting, the way to keep film alive is to shoot film. Right? You know, use it or lose it, as they say. So, yeah, I hope that, I mean, yes, the reception has been incredible.

[Alison Stewart]

That was my conversation with cinematographer Law Crowley. He is Oscar nominated for his work on the Brutalist. Up next, we learn how to make a papal election have the pace of a thriller with Nick Emerson. He's Oscar nominated for editing Conclave. That's next.

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