'The Brutalist' with Adrien Brody and Brady Corbet

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – Episode: 'The Brutalist' with Adrien Brody and Brady Courbet

Release Date: December 17, 2024
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest Speakers: Adrien Brody (Actor) and Brady Courbet (Co-Writer and Director of 'The Brutalist')

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Introduction to 'The Brutalist'

In this episode of All Of It, host Alison Stewart delves into the intricate world of The Brutalist, an acclaimed new film that has captured the attention of critics and audiences alike. With Adrien Brody delivering a standout performance as Laszlo Toth, the protagonist, and Brady Courbet co-writing and directing the film, the discussion provides an in-depth exploration of the film's themes, production challenges, and artistic significance.

Plot Overview

The Brutalist tells the story of Laszlo Toth, a renowned architect trained at Bauhaus, who emigrates to the United States from Budapest in the 1940s. Escaping the horrors of World War II and seeking a fresh start, Laszlo arrives at Ellis Island with nothing but a cousin's address. The narrative follows his quest for the American Dream, balancing his professional aspirations with personal integrity amidst societal challenges.

Notable Scene Discussion:

• Opening Sequence: Laszlo's introduction through the dramatic imagery of the Statue of Liberty, initially upside down, symbolizes his disoriented arrival and the tumultuous journey ahead. As Alison describes, "the way that the opening... is so visceral and telling of what that experience must be like" (07:01).

Filmmaking Process and Challenges

COVID-19 Delays: Brady Courbet shares insights into the unexpected delays caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. Originally scheduled to begin shooting in 2020, the pandemic necessitated significant adjustments, altering both the timeline and logistics of production.

Shooting Schedule: Despite the challenges, The Brutalist was completed in a swift 33-day shoot, a testament to the dedicated efforts of the cast and crew. Adrien Brody remarks on the pace, highlighting the intense physical and emotional commitment required to bring Laszlo Toth to life.

Quote:

"Making a movie is a marriage, it's not a one-night stand. And you have to choose material and themes that you're happy to live with for a decade or however long it takes." – Adrien Brody (04:09)

Character Development and Themes

Immigration and the American Dream: The central theme revolves around Laszlo's struggle to assimilate while preserving his identity and values. Alison Stewart emphasizes the universal relatability of Laszlo's journey, drawing parallels to her own family's immigrant experience.

Pride and Personal Integrity: Laszlo's character embodies the tension between professional ambition and personal ethics. His interactions with wealthy patron Harrison Lee Van Buren (played by Guy Pearce) highlight the delicate balance between artistic integrity and commercial success.

Quote:

"It's a profound moment and statement... he has to eat it and eat the comment and eat the many comments." – Alison Stewart on Laszlo's dilemma (19:54)

Actor Insights: Adrien Brody's Portrayal

Adrien Brody brings depth and nuance to Laszlo Toth, portraying his transformation from a weary immigrant to a confident architect. The physical transformation of Brody, from a stooped posture to a more assertive stance, visually represents Laszlo's internal growth.

Quote:

"It's such a beautiful format and essentially what it does, especially for capturing architecture, is that it allows you to be physically close to a building or an object." – Adrien Brody on using VistaVision (21:25)

Filming Techniques: Embracing VistaVision

The decision to shoot The Brutalist using VistaVision, a high-resolution widescreen process, enhances the film's architectural focus. This technique allows for expansive visuals that capture the grandeur of Laszlo's creations without distortion.

Technical Insight: Brady Courbet explains the choice, tying it to the film's mid-century setting and the need for architectural authenticity.

Quote:

"For me, it's really the best tool that we have. And it's important for us to protect it because it's very, very precious." – Adrien Brody on the importance of VistaVision (21:34)

Architectural Influence

Brady Courbet and Alison Stewart discuss the inspiration drawn from real-life architects such as Marcel Breuer, Louis Kahn, and Mies van der Rohe. Although Laszlo Toth is a fictional character, his traits and professional ethos are amalgamations of these architectural pioneers.

Quote:

"Laszlo, how long have you been here now? Four, five years. You have no excuse anymore." – Sample dialogue reflecting Laszlo's personal struggles (19:22)

Community and Cultural Reflection

The Brutalist serves as both a personal narrative and a broader commentary on the immigrant experience and the pursuit of the American Dream. The film's exploration of cultural assimilation, artistic integrity, and personal resilience resonates with diverse audiences, reflecting the podcast's mission to engage with culture and its consumers.

Alison Stewart’s Perspective:

"I strive to find meaningful work like this for that very reason, so that things that feel worthy of discussion... should be recognized because others are enduring that and should be represented." (25:32)

Conclusion and Release Information

As The Brutalist garners critical acclaim, winning Best Picture and Best Actor at the New York Films Critics Awards and earning seven Golden Globe nominations, excitement builds for its nationwide release on December 20th. New Yorkers have the exclusive opportunity to witness the film in its intended 70mm format, offering a unique visual experience that underscores its architectural themes.

Final Remarks: Alison Stewart wraps up the episode by expressing gratitude to her guests, highlighting the collaborative spirit that brought The Brutalist to fruition.

Quote:

"Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us. This was lovely." – Alison Stewart (27:15)

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All Of It continues to be a platform that celebrates and scrutinizes cultural phenomena, bringing listeners closer to the stories and creators that shape our society. This episode exemplifies the show's commitment to deep, meaningful conversations that explore the multifaceted nature of culture.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Adrien Brody on Movie Making:
  "Making a movie is a marriage, it's not a one-night stand..." (04:09)

• Alison Stewart on Laszlo's Dilemma:
  "It's a profound moment and statement..." (19:54)

• Adrien Brody on VistaVision:
  "It's such a beautiful format..." (21:25)

• Alison Stewart on Meaningful Work:
  "I strive to find meaningful work like this..." (25:32)

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For those seeking a comprehensive understanding of The Brutalist and its cultural implications, this episode of All Of It offers valuable insights and engaging discourse.

Transcript

[Alison Stewart]

Listener support WNYC Studios.

[Brady Courbet]

This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you are here. On today's show, we'll speak with actor Michael Fassbender, who stars as a CIA operative in the new series the Agency. Continue our full bio conversation with Peter Ames Carlin, the author of the Name of This band is R.E.M. a Biography. And now onto our week in Film. Yesterday we spoke with Lily Rose Depp and Robert Eggers about Nosferatu. Tomorrow we'll speak with Peter Sarsgaard about September 5th. But today we begin the show with the extraordinary new film, the Brutalist. All right, this is the only real spoiler I will give you from the acclaimed film the Brutalist. And it's from the opening. You see the Statue of Liberty upside down in a frame. And slowly as the camera turns, it turns right side up. And you realize this is how our protagonist, Laszlo Toth is introduced to our country. You see it from his point of view from the ship that he's been in. He is traveling, escaping, really from Budapest in the 1940s, hoping his wife will join him one day. He lands in Ellis island with nothing except his cousin's address. Laszlo was a well known architect, trained at Bauhaus. But now he just wants a place to lay his head. When a wealthy man finds out Laszlo's backstory, he asks him to build a huge community building on a hillside in Pennsylvania. A gift to the community and a monument to himself.

[Laszlo Toth]

It is no coincidence that fate brought us together on the eve of my mother's. I'm good at reading the signs, sir.

[Alison Stewart]

I do not know what the commission entails.

[Laszlo Toth]

Talk about the details at home. But you'll be well compensated. And also you'll be given a place here on the property to live and work. I think that residing here will allow you the time and the space to conceive of it properly. And your family, should they arrive, they're welcome here too. What do you say?

[Alison Stewart]

I would like to draw something and present it to you.

[Laszlo Toth]

You'd like to win the commission? All right, you can do that. It's cold. Let's return inside. Come on.

[Brady Courbet]

The arc of the Brutalist follows Laszlo as he attempts to find his American dream without giving up important parts of himself. His pride, his family, his sense of self. And a country that tells him that he, his wife, doesn't want him. The three hour plus film has been earning extraordinary reviews. It won best Picture and best Actor at the New York Films Critics Award and It's nominated for seven Golden Globes. It's set to open on December 20th, but New Yorkers can catch the film in 70 millimeter on Thursday. I'll explain why. You might want to do that in just a minute. Joining me now are its co writer and director and New Yorker Brady Courbet. Hi, Brady.

[Adrien Brody]

Hi, how are you?

[Brady Courbet]

I'm doing well. Thanks for joining us. And in the role of Laza Loath, Academy Award winner and New Yorker, Adrien Brody. Hi, Adrienne.

[Alison Stewart]

Hey there. How you doing?

[Brady Courbet]

I'm doing well. So, Brady, you were originally supposed to start shooting around 2020. There was Covid delays in shooting. There were many, many changes. What changed for this film in those two or three years?

[Adrien Brody]

Well, you know, I think when my wife and I finished the draft, we suspected it might take a while, if I'm being perfectly honest.

[Brady Courbet]

Yes.

[Adrien Brody]

And you know, of course no one could have antic the shutdowns due to Covid in 2020, but we knew that one way or another it might take a while. And you know, I've always said that making a movie, it's a marriage, it's not a one night stand. And you have to choose material and themes that you're happy to live with for a decade or however long it takes. I mean, look at Francis film. Megalopol has been in the works for 30 something years.

[Brady Courbet]

Adrian, this particular immigrant experience, a talented architect trying first to just survive and then build a life in America. What did the script for the Brutalist say about that experience that you hadn't seen in film before?

[Alison Stewart]

It is a, you know, it's a really telling story, not only of the immigrant experience, but the journey for any artistic person and, and, and their pursuits and you know, and the, the complexities of the American dream. And you know, all of this is it, it just spoke to me. I didn't, I found this incredibly moving and personal to me in many ways, obviously. But my, my mother's journey as a, as a New York photographer and artist began when she and her parents emigrated to New York fleeing Hungary in the 50s during the Hungarian revolution. And all of it speaks to, to all of these things that I think are very relatable to many people in our, in our country. And so I felt it was very, it was both very intimate and extremely grand. And you know, it's a several decades span of this journey of Laszlo's life that we experience. And to be transported through this one individual's Journey into America is really profound.

[Brady Courbet]

And we'll give Sylvia Plahy a shout out there. Brady After Ellis island, the early part of the story takes place in Pennsylvania. Why Pennsylv?

[Adrien Brody]

Oh, simply because many mid century designers at the time were sort of stationed all over the Northeast, so it was just historically accurate. And Guy's character was, you know, at least partially inspired by Barnes or the Barnes foundation. And so that's why the film travels quite a bit.

[Brady Courbet]

How many locations did you shoot in?

[Adrien Brody]

Oh, we shot all over the world, but the film was shot very quickly. It was shot in a total of 33 days, which actually normally on an independent film would, would have been sufficient. But in this case, because the screenplay was about 170 pages long, you know, it was a lot to pack in, but we had skeleton crews in a much smaller footprint when we went to, to shoot in the marble quarries in Carrera, for example. So, you know, some of it was shot like a student film. And then there's other days when, you know, we had 250 people on set.

[Brady Courbet]

Adrienne, it's a long film. A long film requires a lot of you. You're in nearly every scene and very emotional scenes. Even though it was only 33 days. How did you keep yourself sort of engaged that long?

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, I, I have no problem with getting engaged with things that speak to me. And I, I've been really yearning for a collaboration with a filmmaker like Brady for many, many years. Someone who has this tremendous capacity for understanding for so much that is going on in the world and so much history and such a knowledge of film and love of film. So for me, it was a pleasure. There is just sheer physical exhaustion that we all endured because it was a Sisyphean task for all of us, especially for Brady. Just the enormity of, and complexity of the material to be told in such a finite amount of time with limited resources is really just an accomplishment in and of itself. But we were very, we were in the throes of it through the whole time. It was quite immersive.

[Brady Courbet]

Brady there's this intermission and it's a time for us as the viewer to sort of gather your thoughts, gather yourself, think about what you saw, and then you're ready for the next part. When did you realize this was going to be a long movie?

[Adrien Brody]

Well, the, the, the intermission was scripted and, and we knew, you know, our, we only did two drafts and the first draft was already well over 150 pages. And then with the second draft, it, it Grew, grew a little bit. You know, it was just, it was a big story. We, we always knew that it's been, you know, over 30 years in this character's life and, and, and you know, I think that time and the passage of time is a very important ingredient in, in, in the recipe because by, by the time the, you know, film comes to really lived a life with these characters. And, and look, I think we all know that we've, we've all seen films that are 80 minutes long that feel like they're three and a half hours long. And, and so the intent, the intention was, was not to make something which was durational. I mean, you know, like I, there's actually a lot of durational cinema that I really, really love. But the idea with, with this film was to make something quite propulsive. It's just it a big story. And for the intermission, I, you know, I get so stressed out when I go to see long films and I don't want to step out to use a restroom because I don't want to miss anything. But it kind of makes the experience pretty uncomfortable. So I, we had a solution for this, you know, 75 years ago, the intermission. I also think it's great for the communal movie going experience and you know, I'd like to see it come back if a movie's over three hours long.

[Alison Stewart]

Especially you see how considerate he is.

[Brady Courbet]

We are discussing the film the Brutalist, about an architect who emigrates to America and struggles to create a life. I'm speaking with Brady Courbet who co wrote and directed the film, and Adrien Brody who plays Laszlo Toth. He is our protagonist. Adrienne, as you develop the character of Laszlo, what does Laszlo hope for when he gets to the States?

[Alison Stewart]

Well, it's, look, he's, he's, he's fleeing such oppression. Laszlo survives enduring the concentration camps. He's forcibly separated from his wife and you know, he's an established architect and really all, all of everything has been stripped from him. And it's really about beginning again. And so the hopes of, of finding, you know, peace and freedom of persecution and to come to America and assimilate and, and begin again and hopefully find opportunities to find creative fulfillment. They're all the yearnings of anyone fleeing hardship abroad. It's very similar to many people's stories if they're lucky enough to escape something as horrific as that time in history.

[Brady Courbet]

It's really interesting. Early on he's with his cousin and he realizes his cousin has changed his name. And he marries a Catholic girl in that moment. Why does Laszlo seem either confused or confounded by this?

[Alison Stewart]

Well, it is quite confounding. I think it's a complex thing to witness, and there's a degree of humor in it, too. I think it's a bit absurd to Laszlo. I think my feeling is that it doesn't quite understand or relate to the. The need or desire to assimilate in that capacity in. In a land like the United States, where, you know, these freedoms are. Should be our right. And it seems, I feel, that he's reading, he's learning, he just got his feet on the ground, and he's seeing what his cousin is doing and willing to do. And I think it's a moment of contemplation and revelation, and it speaks to the circumstances for immigrants coming to America.

[Brady Courbet]

Adrian, your body changes a lot in the film. In the beginning, you're sort of stooped a little bit. And then once he's in charge, once he's running a site, he sort of strides when he walks. Laszlo, how did you decide how to carry yourself in the film?

[Alison Stewart]

Alison, I really appreciate that question. I don't. Sometimes there is a very intentional choice made, and sometimes it is invoked through material and connection, emotionally to the journey. And, you know, he's so. It's such a harrowing journey to imagine. And it's so beautifully shot by Brady and Lowell Crawley, our wonderful dp. And the. The. The way that the opening. The disorientation of the opening sequence is. Is so visceral and telling of what that experience must be like and to kind of come out of the depths and darkness of this. The hull of a ship and emerge into the light and. And witnessing the. The epic beauty of the Statue of Liberty, even if it's askew and all that symbolism, which is just also beautiful. But I feel like all of that leans into a state of being for me to exist in. And then as moments of, I guess the foundation is rebuilt, then you somehow can stand taller and more erect, and you will have a renewed sense of pride and strength.

[Brady Courbet]

Brady. Guy Pierce plays this wealthy man, Harrison Lee Van Buren, who sort of takes a shine to Laszlo, but it's more like a. See, I have this fancy thing. I have this fancy architect in my world. What were your thoughts on creating Van Buren, and what qualities did you want him to have?

[Adrien Brody]

Well, of course, the entire film is about the sort of dynamic between a patron and an artist and that sort of tug of war between art and commerce, which, you know, anyone that's that's in a creative profession is sort of accustomed to dealing with. I mean, we had extraordinary partners on this film that were really, really good to us. But of course, I've. I've worked on projects, you know, with, with financiers that, that made, you know, my wife's life and my, my life very, very challenging. And, you know, we, we wrote this screenplay as a sort of exorcism, a way for, for us to, to process a lot of our, our own trauma and frustrations with, you know, experiences that we've had in the past. But the thing that's so fantastic about Guy Pearce, and he really understood this from the screenplay, is that the character had to have real charisma. The character has real taste. He had to be interested in modernism for him to finance this project, which Adrian's character helms. And so it was important to us that even though he's very much an antagonist, that feels very of the era. I mean, he belongs in a mid century melodrama, that there's nuance and complexity and many, many, many shades of gray with him. And Guy just understood that intuitively and really delivered on that.

[Brady Courbet]

Let's listen to a clip from the Brutalist. I'm going to describe it a little bit because we're radio. Van Buren has hired him to build this monument to himself. It's a community senator as well. He's. He's brought his wife who's made it over, and he is shocked, shocked to know that she's a woman with a brain. And at the end of this clip, we'll hear him flip a coin in Laszlo's direction and he sort of expects him to pick it up. This is from the Brutalist Ezra Bet.

[Laszlo Toth]

Pardon me, am I pronouncing that correctly?

[Elizabeth]

That's fine. Just fine. Feel free to call me Elizabeth if you prefer it.

[Laszlo Toth]

And your English is impressive.

[Elizabeth]

Thank you. I attended university in England.

[Brady Courbet]

Oh, where?

[Elizabeth]

Oxford. To study English. And I returned home for communications.

[Laszlo Toth]

And did you do anything with that?

[Elizabeth]

Yes, I wrote for a popular national paper at home. Bojourne said.

[Laszlo Toth]

A journalist.

[Elizabeth]

Cultural, foreign affairs.

[Laszlo Toth]

Well, perhaps you can help your husband sound less like he shined shoes for a wage.

[Elizabeth]

Haven't you told them anything about me?

[Laszlo Toth]

Lazlo, how long have you been here now? Four, five years. You have no excuse anymore. I'm sorry, I got a little carried away there. Will you please pass that back?

[Brady Courbet]

Adrian, what does Laszlo see as his options in that moment?

[Alison Stewart]

Well, this is a profound moment and statement and, and as Brady alluded to the Some of the complexities of, of having a patron or benefactor that it lords over you. And, you know, there's a bit of psychological warfare that's at play here. I don't think he has many options, unfortunately, which is he has to eat it and eat the comment and the many comments and all that is not so subtly inferred in his gesture.

[Brady Courbet]

We're discussing the film the Brutalist, about an architect who emigrates to America and struggles to create a life. I'm speaking with Brady Courbet, who co wrote and directed the film, and Adrien Brody, who plays Lazlo Toth. He's our protagonist. Okay, we've talked about it. I know you've talked about it. VistaVision, you used to shoot this film. All right, here's the definition I found and then I'm going to ask you to go for it. It says VistaVision is a high resolution widescreen process that uses 35 millimeter film. Unlike most other types of filmmaking, the VistaVision camera processes involving turning the film stock on its side so that the perforations are at the top and the bottom of the image instead of on the left and right. This allows for an image space two times the size of traditional 35 millimeter. Did I get it right?

[Adrien Brody]

That's exactly right.

[Brady Courbet]

Okay, you nailed it. When did you decide to use VistaVision and where do you think we can see it in the film?

[Adrien Brody]

You know, the. The camera was engineered in the 1950s and so it was a natural choice for a film that's predominantly set in the mid century. And you know, I, I had always wanted to work on a large format and it hadn't worked out for me until this project. It's such a beautiful format and essentially what it does, especially for capturing architecture, is that it allows you to be physically close to a building or an object. But because of its field of view is so immense, you can see from the ground to the sky even with a six or seven story building, without any distortion. So it just. You relate to architecture and landscape and the human face differently than you do with a traditional 35 millimeter camera. And any film shot on celluloid, whether it's 8 millimeter, 16 millimeter, 35, 65, is a precious gift. These days. There are fewer and fewer films that still shoot on celluloid. But for me, it's really the best tool that we have. And it's important for us to protect it because it's very, very precious. And I want to make sure that future generations always have that tool in the kit when they reach for it.

[Brady Courbet]

The movie is titled the Brutalists. A form of architecture. Think like Chatham Towers downtown or the Fashion Institute of Technology in Chelsea. Adrienne, what kind of research did you do into architects, and did you find a detail that you were able to use?

[Alison Stewart]

Well, Brady and I had. I mean, first of all, I have loved brutalist architecture and some of the structures very much, and I always look out for them when I'm traveling abroad. You know, it. It really. It speaks to. It really speaks to the era and of kind of a resilience and a need to rebuild and looking ahead. And I, you know, I think that it's informed so much great architecture beyond. Beyond that, that. That style of work in particular. But, you know, we. Unfortunately, this is an amalgamation of many characters, because in Brady and Mona's research, there were no surviving Bauhaus era, Eastern Central European architects after the Nazi occupation. And so there were none who had endured that and made it to the United States. The ones who have left their mark, like Marcel Brower, who, you know, did the Wit form, formerly the Whitney, but the Mars, the Met Brower, but, you know, they. They left earlier. And, you know, there were many architects like Louis Kahn, Mice Van der Rohe, et cetera, that we were able to, you know, incorporate elements of their work and personalities. But this is a fictional character out of necessity.

[Brady Courbet]

Adrienne, if someone follows you on Instagram, you are always so grateful. You post these great videos. I've seen you on your own town doing it. What makes you so grateful?

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, I am grateful every day. I am kind of in awe of, first of all, the love that I have received from so many people as a result of my work and this communion that I have with so many people, not just members of my community and my city where I grew up and my neighborhood and. But when I travel throughout the world, I encounter people every day who are somehow moved by something that I've shared. And, you know, I strive to find meaningful work like this for that very reason, so that in things that feel worthy of discussion and circumstances that I am fortunate enough to not have to endure should be recognized because others are enduring that and should be represented. And we should all be conscious of that and open to everyone with the same level of respect that we crave ourselves. And I'm grateful because I do receive a lot of respect and love, and I have a great capacity to reciprocate.

[Brady Courbet]

The Brutalist opens nationwide on 1220. I have been speaking with Adrienne Brody and Brady Courbet it was really nice speaking with both of you.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh Alison, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us. This was lovely.

[Adrien Brody]

Yeah, thank you so much for doing this. Appreciate it.

[N/A]

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