The Cronut Inventor's Newest Culinary Adventure - All Of It with Alison Stewart

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[00:08]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. Coming up on the show, actor Wunmi Mosaku is here to talk about her role as Annie, a spiritual healer in the vampire movie Sinners. It's so good. Authors Adrian Miller and Deborah Chang join us to discuss their book about the history of chefs with Asian heritage in the White House. And poet and author Ocean Vuong has a new novel. The Emperor of Gladness is about an unlikely friendship between a young man and an elderly woman at the fringes of society. It just came out and Ocean is here to discuss. That is our plan. But let's get this hour started with Dominique Ancel. Joining us now is Patience Chef Dominique Ansel. Ancel trademarked the cronut back in 2013, but now he continues his tradition of culinary mashups with a blend of French and Asian baking traditions. His new bakery is called Papa de Mort and it opens on May 22 in the village. It's a special project for him because this particular mashup is meant to honor his family, his Taiwanese wife and their kids. Joining us now is Dominique Ansel. Dominique, it's nice to meet you.
[01:34]
Dominique Ansel
Nice to meet you. How are you?
[01:35]
Alison Stewart
I'm doing fine. The name of the bakery, Papa de Moore, it's about fatherhood and love. What does it literally translate to?
[01:42]
Dominique Ansel
It translates to loving dad. It's actually what my kids call me when they want something from me. So they call me Papa d' Amour because, you know, they want something so they want to make sure I give it to them.
[01:53]
Alison Stewart
How do they play a role in how you're thinking about developing new recipes for your new bakery, Papa d' Amore?
[02:01]
Dominique Ansel
My, you know, my, my family is my life. Like most people, you know, we have, we build a family, we have kids. My wife is from Taiwan, so we've traveled through Taiwan and Asia all together. And I've always like, love the flavors, the, the culture and it's part of my kids heritage Now. I want to make sure we, you know, we keep the roots and the French, all Asians, and that they know where, you know, where the parents are going from.
[02:30]
Alison Stewart
The idea of blending French pastry skills and baking traditions from around Asia, how does blending these traditions bring out the best of both worlds?
[02:42]
Dominique Ansel
It's, you know, it's a vision, it's a point of view. It's not common for sure. You know, French people are pretty traditional where their skills were, their techniques, where their flavors and Asian pastries. I think, you know, a lot of it is all focused on ingredients, but also there's a. You'll find a lot, like, French techniques in Asian baking. So it kind of, like, makes sense from my point of view. I think the. The beauty of. It's like, really, like, embracing both. I mean, all the cultures and bring them together to create something new.
[03:22]
Alison Stewart
Listeners, we have pastry chef Dominique Ansel. He is taking your questions. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Are you looking for a good recipe recommendation? Or maybe you have a dessert you're trying to perfect? Or maybe have a question about his new bakery, Papa de Amor? Our phone lines, they are open to you. 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. Or you can hit us up on socials. Olivenyc. By the way, how is it going with the bakery? It's right around the corner of the opening.
[03:57]
Dominique Ansel
Yeah, it's going well. Obviously, we can start feeling the pressure. We're like, eight days away from opening, so the team has been training for quite some time now. I've been working on menu for almost a year. It's finally coming together. It's good to see. I can't wait to peel the paper off the window and let the light through and let people through to show a little bit what we've been working on.
[04:23]
Alison Stewart
You've been working on the menu for a year?
[04:25]
Dominique Ansel
About a year, yeah. So it takes time, you know, from thinking of the concept to, of course, building the. Physically building the shop to testing the menu, you know, sourcing the right equipment, hiring the staff. It takes some time. Actually, we've been working on this concept for close to two years now, altogether.
[04:46]
Alison Stewart
On one of your websites, there's this pull quote from you that says, don't let the creation kill the creativity. What do you mean by that?
[04:55]
Dominique Ansel
Well, that's something that, you know, that I actually talk about. When I created the cornet, a lot of people were telling me to just to sell out, just to, you know, build factories and ship it all across the world, and I refused. I didn't want my creation to kill my creativity, so I wanted to make sure I could stay relevant and creative because this is who I am. This is what I like to do. I like to create new pastries. I like to create new experiences and share it with the world and to make sure that, you know, stay true to who I am, to myself as a chef, as a creator.
[05:28]
Alison Stewart
So you created The Cronut. You trademarked it in 2013, but your stores still carry different flavors of Cronuts every month. So after all these years, do any particular flavors really stand out to you? And you think, oh, that was a good one.
[05:45]
Dominique Ansel
That's a good question. Now, we have, since the beginning, changed the flavor every single month, and we have never, ever repeated the same flavor. So altogether, I think we've created over 800 flavors of Connaught. So it's. It's a lot. It's challenging. I think the one that resonates to me the most, it was all. It will always be the first one. It will always be, like, a moment in time where, like, you know, that. That. That means something to me. It's definitely, like, engraved in my memory. It was rose and vanilla. It was created for Mother's Day, and it was something we're supposed to do just for the weekend. We put on the menu, and by day three, we had over 150 people waiting outside before we even opened the door. And think about this. It was like 12 years ago. 12, 13, I don't count anymore. It was a long time ago, before the era of social media and the way it is now.
[06:39]
Alison Stewart
It's interesting because so many people would say, I did that. It's over. It's kind of the way rock bands won't play their greatest hits.
[06:45]
Dominique Ansel
But.
[06:46]
Alison Stewart
But you haven't walked away from the Cronut. Why not?
[06:49]
Dominique Ansel
No, I mean, the Kronut is still here. We still sell out every single day. And then we've kept quality, creativity within the product. We've kept the consistency. And that's the most important for me. It's not about, like, you know, how many, like, more you can sell, but, like, how much more exciting can you make it, how much more different can you present it? And, like, keeping the quality is, like. It's also a challenge every single day to make sure that we. We serve a high quality product.
[07:16]
Alison Stewart
My guest is Dominique Ansel. He is a pastry chef. He's the inventor of the Cronant. He's a restaurateur, and he is our guest. He's also willing to take your calls. You looking for a recipe recommendation? Maybe you have a dessert you're just trying to perfect? You can ask Dominique Ancel. The lines are open. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. We have Andrew, who is calling in from Syracuse, New York. Hi, Andrew. You're with Dominique Ansel.
[07:48]
Andrew
Hi. Hello. How are you today?
[07:50]
Alison Stewart
Good, thank you good.
[07:52]
Andrew
I just wanted to ask Mr. Ansell what kind of advice would he give young people that are using baking as a self care technique. I work with a lot of young people in high school as a mental health clinician and I try to emphasize the need for that. And some of them do speak about baking and their use of it to take care of themselves. And so just in general though, I would like to, to know what Mr. Ansell's thoughts are on the subject.
[08:20]
Dominique Ansel
That's a great question. Actually never been asked this question. Thank you, Andrew. I think you know, a lot of people when I see like Becky at home, like beginners or even people that, that do it at home for, for the weekend, they all like bring back the same fact. The fact that baking is actually like very soothing, very relaxing, something that calms them down, something that like recenters them. And I believe, you know, baking has this kind of power and I think it's great to use it in that sense. You know, baking sometimes, sometimes people are afraid of baking. They think it's like, it's like scary or they don't know what they're going to do, what are they going to get. But so long you follow the recipes and you have someone to like guide you through the steps. I think it's a great way of like engaging with people, re centering people and like you know, also like sometimes relaxing too.
[09:14]
Alison Stewart
What drew you to becoming a pastry chef?
[09:17]
Dominique Ansel
I'm sorry?
[09:18]
Alison Stewart
What drew you to becoming a pastry chef?
[09:20]
Dominique Ansel
Oh, me. It was like I think my mom, she was a terrible cook. She was really bad. She was really, really bad. Many, many times I ended up like in the kitchen trying to serve dinner with my dad. And the thing I will do, I'll pull a recipe book, look through the recipe and see how to prepare like food. And I think at the time I was very young. I was probably like you know, 12 to 15. And I was like okay, I guess I like, I like being in kitchen. I like cooking. And while I left school at age of 16, either age of 15, I decided I want to be a chef. I didn't know much what I want to do. I didn't know like that cooking was going to be something I want to do. So I, you know, I found a school. I went to Kilo school. While walking I did the apprenticeship and I, I kind of like, like it. The first year was tough, but it was really tough.
[10:14]
Alison Stewart
What was tough?
[10:15]
Dominique Ansel
Everything. I was a chef in a restaurant, you know, I was not treated well. I was not careful. I was not shown or taught anything. There was the. You know, 30 years ago in France. It was rough, actually. Like, hated the first year. I didn't like it at all. But then, you know, little by little, I met people who taught me, who showed me the right people to. To care for me, and I started appreciating what I was doing. And, you know, having people around that. That show you and teach you, I think is. Is important.
[10:48]
Alison Stewart
That first year of being a chef where you didn't like it, it must have taught you how to treat other people.
[10:52]
Dominique Ansel
Absolutely. I promised myself this is exactly what I never wanted to be, what I never want to do in the kitchen. So everyone that comes to our kitchen, you know, is truly, like, fairly very well careful if they have any question. There's no silly question. Even if it's something very simple that, you know, I tell my chef, you have done and you have repeated, like, 100,000 times. Do it one more time. Do it one more time for this person. It'll make a difference for the life. It can make a difference for the life of the carrier.
[11:21]
Alison Stewart
Dominique, we have a question for you. This is coming in via text. The question is, how will you integrate traditional Taiwanese pastry, like mochi and pineapple cake, in your creations? That is from Jen.
[11:34]
Dominique Ansel
It's a good question. I think it's a. You know, I obviously, like, fell in love with Taiwan, with the food there. It's not about. For me, it's not about replicating the traditional Taiwanese flavors or Asian flavors. It's about being inspired by it. So I'm creating pastries that are, you know, somehow like French techniques, French ingredients sometimes mixed with some Asian or Taiwanese flavors or inspiration. But it's. It's a. They're all, like, unique creations. They're not like a replicate of what already exists. So, yes, pineapple. I'm working on something to. To be inspired by. By the pineapple cake, you know, and some. Some of the flavors as well. Mochi is definitely something I'm working with as well. Let me know which side is bad. I'm working on this, actually, this Tao puff donut. So it's inspired by the dim sum, the tower puff dim sum. It's like a very thin, delicate, beautiful lace batter that's usually served with, like, pork and a stew inside. So we're gonna. Differently. We're doing a mochi, but with that less butter. So we're doing a vanilla mochi with strawberry and guava jam. And this is, like, kind of like, wrapped around that lace batter and fried to order. So it's gonna be crispy, like chewy. It's gonna be like a nice, like creamy, like jam inside. A little bit of acidity, a little bit of chewiness. Very exciting one.
[13:04]
Alison Stewart
We have another question. This one is via text. It says, I've been trying to perfect a cream cheese Italian meringue, buttercream. The emulsion tends to break even if there's enough cream cheese to impart flavor. Any tips to prevent that, that the emulsion tends to break?
[13:24]
Dominique Ansel
That's a very specific question. Obviously, I will have to see the recipe to demonate what will work. But I can tell you that if you add too much cream cheese to Italian meringue, it will split because you have a fat and water content that is mixed together. So most likely put less cream cheese anytime.
[13:44]
Alison Stewart
Let's talk to Brent. Hi, Brent. Thanks for calling, all of it. You are on the air with Dominique Anzel.
[13:50]
Andrew
Hi, thanks for taking my call. I live right in the neighborhood 11th in university. And I've just been watching over the past 25 years, new restaurants and coffee shops and cafes coming in and revitalizing the neighborhood. And I just wanted to officially welcome you to the neighborhood. It looks like it's going to be a beautiful shop and a beautiful building, and you're a wonderful operator. So welcome. We wish you all the best.
[14:16]
Dominique Ansel
Thank you. Thank you so much, friend. I'm really excited. I know University street up to Union Square has changed a lot between Union Square and Washington park, it's definitely moving a lot. There's a lot of food businesses. You know, we come very humble. We're very excited, super happy to meet all the neighborhood. You know, like, hopefully we'll have long lines in the beginning, but I wish to, to welcome everyone and, and personally greet everyone. I think that before anything, a bakery is a neighborhood business and we have to cater to the, to, to our neighbors and make sure that, you know, we're part of the community. So thank you for your warm welcome and looking forward to meeting you.
[14:58]
Alison Stewart
It's interesting. Bakeries are kind of having a moment right now. Long lines, people walking away. People wouldn't touch carbs four years ago. Now they're walking away with bags full. Why do you think bakeries are having this moment?
[15:12]
Dominique Ansel
It's true. I think the last, probably last five to 10 years. I will say, like this. There's more and more bakeries in the city, and I am super excited about it. You know, when people think like, oh, it's competition, like, I think we're all different, different types of bakery, different type of businesses, and there's. Obviously, there's room for everyone. You know, like, it's still, like, competition. You still have to, like, you know, mark yourself from. From the competition. But it's a healthy one, I think. I think bakeries are more accessible than restaurants. After Covid, probably a lot of people don't want to sit down for a full meal or have changed. A lot of people have changed their lifestyle to. To eat dinner earlier, to wake up earlier and work out a little bit more, or working from home. So a lot of habits have changed, for sure. You can feel it. I can see it. A lot less people go to restaurants, sadly. I wish it was the other way, but, you know, the bakeries is still, like, a quick, accessible type of business where you can grab something and go home with it. And I think a lot of, like, you know, talented chefs have, like, come up with, like, cool concepts, comfortable places, good food, and that makes a difference.
[16:25]
Alison Stewart
Talk to Vicki, who's calling in from Tudor city. Hi, Vicki. Thanks for calling all of it. You're on the air with Dominicanso.
[16:32]
Andrew
Oh, good morning. Thank you for taking my call. I just wondered if the chef could share any time that he may have laughed at himself for a spectacular baking failure. I've had a couple of those, and baking is such a science, and it actually caused me to give up baking, and I could cook almost anything else. So does he have anything like that that he could share?
[16:58]
Dominique Ansel
Vicky? It's a great question here, too, of course, about my failures. Of course, we all had it, you know, especially in the beginning of my career. You know, now I. My feelers are smaller, so they're more, like, calculated. They're more like anticipated when they happen. But we all have had some. I remember, like, being a young chef in Paris in my 20s and working at Fon Forchon, which is one. Was one of the best at the time, Best bakery in Paris. And, you know, as was my first year, I was doing a recipe with another chef where I was mixing probably about 80 pounds of chocolate mousse or building, like, cakes. So it's a lot.
[17:39]
Alison Stewart
It's a lot.
[17:39]
Dominique Ansel
You have your arm, like, deep inside the mixing bowl, like, you know, mixing that creamy chocolate ganache with the whipped cream. And I was mixing and mixing. And my chef comes, he looks at the. The chocolate mousse, he looks at me, and he asked me the question. You put the gelatin right? And I had this, like, split second of, like, oh, my God. I had this institution because I work with someone else. On it and didn't bring all ingredients. And that bowl of gelatin was sitting on the counter. And I realized that it was, you know, it was left out. So the whole, the whole time I was like, I think I turned all white and pale. Like, I have never done a mistake like this. So trust me, like, I, I panicked. I freaked out. I did it once, only once. And I remember to this day what it was to make sure, to make sure before you mix and combine everything together that you have all ingredients in front of you. And I said, that's a mistake. That, that taught me a lot. Macaria for sure. And I use it, you know, to train my team. Make sure you have all ingredients in front of you before you start mixing so you know you're not missing anything.
[18:46]
Alison Stewart
All right. To help out Vicki, in your book, you have this new book, Life Sweet Moments. Simple, Stunning recipes and their heartwarming stories. What is the simplest recipe in this book that maybe will get her back into baking?
[19:00]
Dominique Ansel
I mean, there's, there's a lot of simple recipes. I would say, like, the cookie is definitely one of them. You know, it's a simple recipe that doesn't really, like, fail. Yeah. I think also the cookie will be a good step to begin.
[19:18]
Alison Stewart
Thank you so much for calling in, Vicki, and thank you so much for Dominique Ansel. We look forward to your new bakery, Papa d' Amore. It's opening on May 22nd. Thanks for your time.
[19:30]
Dominique Ansel
Thank you so much. Exciting to be on the show.
[19:33]
Alison Stewart
I'm Ira Plato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, our team has been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine. News you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7, our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, climate change, genetic engineering, childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.

Summary5 min read

Episode Summary: "The Cronut Inventor's Newest Culinary Adventure"

All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart on WNYC, delves into the vibrant world of culture and its creators. In this episode, released on May 14, 2025, Alison converses with Dominique Ansel, the renowned pastry chef celebrated for inventing the Cronut. Ansel shares insights into his latest culinary venture, Papa d' Amore, blending French and Asian baking traditions to honor his family's heritage.

Introducing Dominique Ansel and Papa d' Amore

The episode opens with Alison Stewart introducing Dominique Ansel, highlighting his iconic creation, the Cronut, trademarked in 2013. Ansel announces his new bakery, Papa d' Amore, set to open on May 22 in the Village. This establishment represents a heartfelt fusion of French pastry techniques with Asian flavors, a tribute to his Taiwanese wife and their children.

Dominique Ansel explains the meaning behind the bakery's name: “It translates to loving dad. It's actually what my kids call me when they want something from me. So they call me Papa d'Amour because, you know, they want something so they want to make sure I give it to them.” (02:00)

Blending French and Asian Baking Traditions

Ansel discusses his passion for integrating French and Asian baking traditions, emphasizing the uniqueness of this culinary mashup. He notes, “French people are pretty traditional with their techniques and flavors, while Asian pastries focus a lot on ingredients. Combining these makes sense from my point of view,” highlighting the creative synergy that arises from embracing diverse cultural influences. (02:42)

The Journey to Opening Papa d' Amore

As the bakery’s grand opening approaches, Ansel shares the extensive preparation involved. From developing the menu over a year to training his team, every detail is meticulously planned to ensure a seamless launch. “We're like eight days away from opening, so the team has been training for quite some time now. I've been working on the menu for almost a year. It's finally coming together,” he states with palpable excitement. (03:57)

Maintaining Creativity: "Don't Let the Creation Kill the Creativity"

Ansel reflects on his career philosophy, emphasizing the importance of staying creative. He recounts his decision to protect the Cronut from mass commercialization to preserve its uniqueness: “I didn't want my creation to kill my creativity, so I wanted to make sure I could stay relevant and creative because this is who I am.” (04:45) This mantra underscores his commitment to innovation and quality in his new ventures.

The Enduring Legacy of the Cronut

When asked about the longevity of the Cronut, Ansel expresses pride in its lasting appeal. “We have never repeated the same flavor. Altogether, I think we've created over 800 flavors of Cronut,” he reveals. He reminisces about the first Cronut flavor, rose and vanilla, which garnered immense popularity even before the rise of social media. “It was a moment in time... we had over 150 people waiting outside before we even opened the door,” he recalls fondly. (05:28) Ansel emphasizes the importance of continual innovation and maintaining high standards to keep the Cronut relevant. (06:38)

Audience Engagement: Listener Questions

1. Baking as Self-Care

A listener, Andrew from Syracuse, inquires about using baking as a self-care technique. Ansel wholeheartedly supports this idea, stating, “Baking is very soothing, very relaxing, something that calms them down, something that recenters them.” He encourages following recipes and seeking guidance to make baking a comforting and therapeutic activity. (07:52)

2. Integrating Traditional Taiwanese Pastries

Jen asks about incorporating Taiwanese pastries like mochi and pineapple cake into his creations. Ansel explains his approach is not to replicate traditional flavors but to draw inspiration from them. He describes a new creation, the Tao puff donut, which combines mochi with a delicate lace batter and a creamy strawberry and guava jam filling: “It's gonna be crispy, like chewy. It's gonna be like a nice, creamy jam inside.” (11:21)

3. Perfecting Cream Cheese Italian Meringue Buttercream

Another listener seeks advice on preventing the emulsion from breaking in cream cheese Italian meringue buttercream. Ansel suggests reducing the amount of cream cheese to maintain a stable emulsion, highlighting the balance between fat and water content as crucial. (13:03)

4. Welcoming to the Neighborhood

Brent from the neighborhood extends a warm welcome to Ansel, appreciating the revitalization brought by new food businesses. Ansel responds with gratitude and a commitment to being an integral part of the community: “We're very excited, super happy to meet all the neighborhood... a bakery is a neighborhood business.” (13:49)

5. The Resurgence of Bakeries

Ansel discusses the growing popularity of bakeries, attributing it to their accessibility compared to restaurants. Post-COVID lifestyle changes have led to increased demand for quick, high-quality bakery items. “Bakeries are more accessible than restaurants... you can grab something and go home with it,” he explains. (15:11)

6. Baking Failures and Learning from Mistakes

Vicki shares her struggles with baking, leading to Ansel recounting his own failures. He narrates a memorable mistake from his early career in Paris, where forgetting to add gelatin to a chocolate mousse taught him the importance of preparation: “I remember to this day what it was to make sure... you have all ingredients in front of you.” (16:31) Ansel uses such experiences to train his team, fostering a supportive and meticulous kitchen environment. (17:39)

7. Simple Recipes to Reignite Baking Passion

Jen, referencing Ansel's book Life Sweet Moments: Simple, Stunning Recipes and Their Heartwarming Stories, asks for a beginner-friendly recipe. Ansel recommends cookies as an ideal starting point due to their simplicity and reliability: “The cookie will be a good step to begin.” (18:46)

Conclusion: Anticipation for Papa d' Amore

As the interview wraps up, Alison expresses excitement for Papa d' Amore’s opening on May 22. Ansel conveys his eagerness to serve the community and personally welcome customers to his new bakery: “I'm really excited... we're part of the community.” (19:32)

Key Takeaways:

Cultural Fusion: Dominique Ansel’s Papa d' Amore embodies a harmonious blend of French and Asian baking traditions, celebrating his family’s diverse heritage.
Commitment to Creativity: Ansel remains dedicated to innovation, ensuring his creations evolve while maintaining quality and uniqueness.
Community Focus: Emphasizing the importance of being a neighborhood business, Ansel aims to create a welcoming and integral part of the local community.
Supportive Kitchen Culture: Drawing from his challenging early career, Ansel fosters a kitchen environment that prioritizes learning, support, and meticulousness.

Notable Quotes:

“Don't let the creation kill the creativity.” – Dominique Ansel (04:45)
“Baking is very soothing, very relaxing, something that calms them down.” – Dominique Ansel (07:52)
“The cookie will be a good step to begin.” – Dominique Ansel (19:00)

This episode offers an inspiring glimpse into Dominique Ansel’s culinary journey, highlighting his dedication to cultural fusion, creativity, and community engagement. Whether you're a baking enthusiast or simply curious about the art of pastry, Ansel’s insights provide valuable lessons on innovation and passion in the culinary world.

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Transcript52 lines

[00:08]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. Coming up on the show, actor Wunmi Mosaku is here to talk about her role as Annie, a spiritual healer in the vampire movie Sinners. It's so good. Authors Adrian Miller and Deborah Chang join us to discuss their book about the history of chefs with Asian heritage in the White House. And poet and author Ocean Vuong has a new novel. The Emperor of Gladness is about an unlikely friendship between a young man and an elderly woman at the fringes of society. It just came out and Ocean is here to discuss. That is our plan. But let's get this hour started with Dominique Ancel. Joining us now is Patience Chef Dominique Ansel. Ancel trademarked the cronut back in 2013, but now he continues his tradition of culinary mashups with a blend of French and Asian baking traditions. His new bakery is called Papa de Mort and it opens on May 22 in the village. It's a special project for him because this particular mashup is meant to honor his family, his Taiwanese wife and their kids. Joining us now is Dominique Ansel. Dominique, it's nice to meet you.
[01:34]
Dominique Ansel
Nice to meet you. How are you?
[01:35]
Alison Stewart
I'm doing fine. The name of the bakery, Papa de Moore, it's about fatherhood and love. What does it literally translate to?
[01:42]
Dominique Ansel
It translates to loving dad. It's actually what my kids call me when they want something from me. So they call me Papa d' Amour because, you know, they want something so they want to make sure I give it to them.
[01:53]
Alison Stewart
How do they play a role in how you're thinking about developing new recipes for your new bakery, Papa d' Amore?
[02:01]
Dominique Ansel
My, you know, my, my family is my life. Like most people, you know, we have, we build a family, we have kids. My wife is from Taiwan, so we've traveled through Taiwan and Asia all together. And I've always like, love the flavors, the, the culture and it's part of my kids heritage Now. I want to make sure we, you know, we keep the roots and the French, all Asians, and that they know where, you know, where the parents are going from.
[02:30]
Alison Stewart
The idea of blending French pastry skills and baking traditions from around Asia, how does blending these traditions bring out the best of both worlds?
[02:42]
Dominique Ansel
It's, you know, it's a vision, it's a point of view. It's not common for sure. You know, French people are pretty traditional where their skills were, their techniques, where their flavors and Asian pastries. I think, you know, a lot of it is all focused on ingredients, but also there's a. You'll find a lot, like, French techniques in Asian baking. So it kind of, like, makes sense from my point of view. I think the. The beauty of. It's like, really, like, embracing both. I mean, all the cultures and bring them together to create something new.
[03:22]
Alison Stewart
Listeners, we have pastry chef Dominique Ansel. He is taking your questions. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Are you looking for a good recipe recommendation? Or maybe you have a dessert you're trying to perfect? Or maybe have a question about his new bakery, Papa de Amor? Our phone lines, they are open to you. 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. Or you can hit us up on socials. Olivenyc. By the way, how is it going with the bakery? It's right around the corner of the opening.
[03:57]
Dominique Ansel
Yeah, it's going well. Obviously, we can start feeling the pressure. We're like, eight days away from opening, so the team has been training for quite some time now. I've been working on menu for almost a year. It's finally coming together. It's good to see. I can't wait to peel the paper off the window and let the light through and let people through to show a little bit what we've been working on.
[04:23]
Alison Stewart
You've been working on the menu for a year?
[04:25]
Dominique Ansel
About a year, yeah. So it takes time, you know, from thinking of the concept to, of course, building the. Physically building the shop to testing the menu, you know, sourcing the right equipment, hiring the staff. It takes some time. Actually, we've been working on this concept for close to two years now, altogether.
[04:46]
Alison Stewart
On one of your websites, there's this pull quote from you that says, don't let the creation kill the creativity. What do you mean by that?
[04:55]
Dominique Ansel
Well, that's something that, you know, that I actually talk about. When I created the cornet, a lot of people were telling me to just to sell out, just to, you know, build factories and ship it all across the world, and I refused. I didn't want my creation to kill my creativity, so I wanted to make sure I could stay relevant and creative because this is who I am. This is what I like to do. I like to create new pastries. I like to create new experiences and share it with the world and to make sure that, you know, stay true to who I am, to myself as a chef, as a creator.
[05:28]
Alison Stewart
So you created The Cronut. You trademarked it in 2013, but your stores still carry different flavors of Cronuts every month. So after all these years, do any particular flavors really stand out to you? And you think, oh, that was a good one.
[05:45]
Dominique Ansel
That's a good question. Now, we have, since the beginning, changed the flavor every single month, and we have never, ever repeated the same flavor. So altogether, I think we've created over 800 flavors of Connaught. So it's. It's a lot. It's challenging. I think the one that resonates to me the most, it was all. It will always be the first one. It will always be, like, a moment in time where, like, you know, that. That. That means something to me. It's definitely, like, engraved in my memory. It was rose and vanilla. It was created for Mother's Day, and it was something we're supposed to do just for the weekend. We put on the menu, and by day three, we had over 150 people waiting outside before we even opened the door. And think about this. It was like 12 years ago. 12, 13, I don't count anymore. It was a long time ago, before the era of social media and the way it is now.
[06:39]
Alison Stewart
It's interesting because so many people would say, I did that. It's over. It's kind of the way rock bands won't play their greatest hits.
[06:45]
Dominique Ansel
But.
[06:46]
Alison Stewart
But you haven't walked away from the Cronut. Why not?
[06:49]
Dominique Ansel
No, I mean, the Kronut is still here. We still sell out every single day. And then we've kept quality, creativity within the product. We've kept the consistency. And that's the most important for me. It's not about, like, you know, how many, like, more you can sell, but, like, how much more exciting can you make it, how much more different can you present it? And, like, keeping the quality is, like. It's also a challenge every single day to make sure that we. We serve a high quality product.
[07:16]
Alison Stewart
My guest is Dominique Ansel. He is a pastry chef. He's the inventor of the Cronant. He's a restaurateur, and he is our guest. He's also willing to take your calls. You looking for a recipe recommendation? Maybe you have a dessert you're just trying to perfect? You can ask Dominique Ancel. The lines are open. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. We have Andrew, who is calling in from Syracuse, New York. Hi, Andrew. You're with Dominique Ansel.
[07:48]
Andrew
Hi. Hello. How are you today?
[07:50]
Alison Stewart
Good, thank you good.
[07:52]
Andrew
I just wanted to ask Mr. Ansell what kind of advice would he give young people that are using baking as a self care technique. I work with a lot of young people in high school as a mental health clinician and I try to emphasize the need for that. And some of them do speak about baking and their use of it to take care of themselves. And so just in general though, I would like to, to know what Mr. Ansell's thoughts are on the subject.
[08:20]
Dominique Ansel
That's a great question. Actually never been asked this question. Thank you, Andrew. I think you know, a lot of people when I see like Becky at home, like beginners or even people that, that do it at home for, for the weekend, they all like bring back the same fact. The fact that baking is actually like very soothing, very relaxing, something that calms them down, something that like recenters them. And I believe, you know, baking has this kind of power and I think it's great to use it in that sense. You know, baking sometimes, sometimes people are afraid of baking. They think it's like, it's like scary or they don't know what they're going to do, what are they going to get. But so long you follow the recipes and you have someone to like guide you through the steps. I think it's a great way of like engaging with people, re centering people and like you know, also like sometimes relaxing too.
[09:14]
Alison Stewart
What drew you to becoming a pastry chef?
[09:17]
Dominique Ansel
I'm sorry?
[09:18]
Alison Stewart
What drew you to becoming a pastry chef?
[09:20]
Dominique Ansel
Oh, me. It was like I think my mom, she was a terrible cook. She was really bad. She was really, really bad. Many, many times I ended up like in the kitchen trying to serve dinner with my dad. And the thing I will do, I'll pull a recipe book, look through the recipe and see how to prepare like food. And I think at the time I was very young. I was probably like you know, 12 to 15. And I was like okay, I guess I like, I like being in kitchen. I like cooking. And while I left school at age of 16, either age of 15, I decided I want to be a chef. I didn't know much what I want to do. I didn't know like that cooking was going to be something I want to do. So I, you know, I found a school. I went to Kilo school. While walking I did the apprenticeship and I, I kind of like, like it. The first year was tough, but it was really tough.
[10:14]
Alison Stewart
What was tough?
[10:15]
Dominique Ansel
Everything. I was a chef in a restaurant, you know, I was not treated well. I was not careful. I was not shown or taught anything. There was the. You know, 30 years ago in France. It was rough, actually. Like, hated the first year. I didn't like it at all. But then, you know, little by little, I met people who taught me, who showed me the right people to. To care for me, and I started appreciating what I was doing. And, you know, having people around that. That show you and teach you, I think is. Is important.
[10:48]
Alison Stewart
That first year of being a chef where you didn't like it, it must have taught you how to treat other people.
[10:52]
Dominique Ansel
Absolutely. I promised myself this is exactly what I never wanted to be, what I never want to do in the kitchen. So everyone that comes to our kitchen, you know, is truly, like, fairly very well careful if they have any question. There's no silly question. Even if it's something very simple that, you know, I tell my chef, you have done and you have repeated, like, 100,000 times. Do it one more time. Do it one more time for this person. It'll make a difference for the life. It can make a difference for the life of the carrier.
[11:21]
Alison Stewart
Dominique, we have a question for you. This is coming in via text. The question is, how will you integrate traditional Taiwanese pastry, like mochi and pineapple cake, in your creations? That is from Jen.
[11:34]
Dominique Ansel
It's a good question. I think it's a. You know, I obviously, like, fell in love with Taiwan, with the food there. It's not about. For me, it's not about replicating the traditional Taiwanese flavors or Asian flavors. It's about being inspired by it. So I'm creating pastries that are, you know, somehow like French techniques, French ingredients sometimes mixed with some Asian or Taiwanese flavors or inspiration. But it's. It's a. They're all, like, unique creations. They're not like a replicate of what already exists. So, yes, pineapple. I'm working on something to. To be inspired by. By the pineapple cake, you know, and some. Some of the flavors as well. Mochi is definitely something I'm working with as well. Let me know which side is bad. I'm working on this, actually, this Tao puff donut. So it's inspired by the dim sum, the tower puff dim sum. It's like a very thin, delicate, beautiful lace batter that's usually served with, like, pork and a stew inside. So we're gonna. Differently. We're doing a mochi, but with that less butter. So we're doing a vanilla mochi with strawberry and guava jam. And this is, like, kind of like, wrapped around that lace batter and fried to order. So it's gonna be crispy, like chewy. It's gonna be like a nice, like creamy, like jam inside. A little bit of acidity, a little bit of chewiness. Very exciting one.
[13:04]
Alison Stewart
We have another question. This one is via text. It says, I've been trying to perfect a cream cheese Italian meringue, buttercream. The emulsion tends to break even if there's enough cream cheese to impart flavor. Any tips to prevent that, that the emulsion tends to break?
[13:24]
Dominique Ansel
That's a very specific question. Obviously, I will have to see the recipe to demonate what will work. But I can tell you that if you add too much cream cheese to Italian meringue, it will split because you have a fat and water content that is mixed together. So most likely put less cream cheese anytime.
[13:44]
Alison Stewart
Let's talk to Brent. Hi, Brent. Thanks for calling, all of it. You are on the air with Dominique Anzel.
[13:50]
Andrew
Hi, thanks for taking my call. I live right in the neighborhood 11th in university. And I've just been watching over the past 25 years, new restaurants and coffee shops and cafes coming in and revitalizing the neighborhood. And I just wanted to officially welcome you to the neighborhood. It looks like it's going to be a beautiful shop and a beautiful building, and you're a wonderful operator. So welcome. We wish you all the best.
[14:16]
Dominique Ansel
Thank you. Thank you so much, friend. I'm really excited. I know University street up to Union Square has changed a lot between Union Square and Washington park, it's definitely moving a lot. There's a lot of food businesses. You know, we come very humble. We're very excited, super happy to meet all the neighborhood. You know, like, hopefully we'll have long lines in the beginning, but I wish to, to welcome everyone and, and personally greet everyone. I think that before anything, a bakery is a neighborhood business and we have to cater to the, to, to our neighbors and make sure that, you know, we're part of the community. So thank you for your warm welcome and looking forward to meeting you.
[14:58]
Alison Stewart
It's interesting. Bakeries are kind of having a moment right now. Long lines, people walking away. People wouldn't touch carbs four years ago. Now they're walking away with bags full. Why do you think bakeries are having this moment?
[15:12]
Dominique Ansel
It's true. I think the last, probably last five to 10 years. I will say, like this. There's more and more bakeries in the city, and I am super excited about it. You know, when people think like, oh, it's competition, like, I think we're all different, different types of bakery, different type of businesses, and there's. Obviously, there's room for everyone. You know, like, it's still, like, competition. You still have to, like, you know, mark yourself from. From the competition. But it's a healthy one, I think. I think bakeries are more accessible than restaurants. After Covid, probably a lot of people don't want to sit down for a full meal or have changed. A lot of people have changed their lifestyle to. To eat dinner earlier, to wake up earlier and work out a little bit more, or working from home. So a lot of habits have changed, for sure. You can feel it. I can see it. A lot less people go to restaurants, sadly. I wish it was the other way, but, you know, the bakeries is still, like, a quick, accessible type of business where you can grab something and go home with it. And I think a lot of, like, you know, talented chefs have, like, come up with, like, cool concepts, comfortable places, good food, and that makes a difference.
[16:25]
Alison Stewart
Talk to Vicki, who's calling in from Tudor city. Hi, Vicki. Thanks for calling all of it. You're on the air with Dominicanso.
[16:32]
Andrew
Oh, good morning. Thank you for taking my call. I just wondered if the chef could share any time that he may have laughed at himself for a spectacular baking failure. I've had a couple of those, and baking is such a science, and it actually caused me to give up baking, and I could cook almost anything else. So does he have anything like that that he could share?
[16:58]
Dominique Ansel
Vicky? It's a great question here, too, of course, about my failures. Of course, we all had it, you know, especially in the beginning of my career. You know, now I. My feelers are smaller, so they're more, like, calculated. They're more like anticipated when they happen. But we all have had some. I remember, like, being a young chef in Paris in my 20s and working at Fon Forchon, which is one. Was one of the best at the time, Best bakery in Paris. And, you know, as was my first year, I was doing a recipe with another chef where I was mixing probably about 80 pounds of chocolate mousse or building, like, cakes. So it's a lot.
[17:39]
Alison Stewart
It's a lot.
[17:39]
Dominique Ansel
You have your arm, like, deep inside the mixing bowl, like, you know, mixing that creamy chocolate ganache with the whipped cream. And I was mixing and mixing. And my chef comes, he looks at the. The chocolate mousse, he looks at me, and he asked me the question. You put the gelatin right? And I had this, like, split second of, like, oh, my God. I had this institution because I work with someone else. On it and didn't bring all ingredients. And that bowl of gelatin was sitting on the counter. And I realized that it was, you know, it was left out. So the whole, the whole time I was like, I think I turned all white and pale. Like, I have never done a mistake like this. So trust me, like, I, I panicked. I freaked out. I did it once, only once. And I remember to this day what it was to make sure, to make sure before you mix and combine everything together that you have all ingredients in front of you. And I said, that's a mistake. That, that taught me a lot. Macaria for sure. And I use it, you know, to train my team. Make sure you have all ingredients in front of you before you start mixing so you know you're not missing anything.
[18:46]
Alison Stewart
All right. To help out Vicki, in your book, you have this new book, Life Sweet Moments. Simple, Stunning recipes and their heartwarming stories. What is the simplest recipe in this book that maybe will get her back into baking?
[19:00]
Dominique Ansel
I mean, there's, there's a lot of simple recipes. I would say, like, the cookie is definitely one of them. You know, it's a simple recipe that doesn't really, like, fail. Yeah. I think also the cookie will be a good step to begin.
[19:18]
Alison Stewart
Thank you so much for calling in, Vicki, and thank you so much for Dominique Ansel. We look forward to your new bakery, Papa d' Amore. It's opening on May 22nd. Thanks for your time.
[19:30]
Dominique Ansel
Thank you so much. Exciting to be on the show.
[19:33]
Alison Stewart
I'm Ira Plato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, our team has been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine. News you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7, our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, climate change, genetic engineering, childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.