The Historic Discoveries Unearthed By The Gateway Tunnel Project Construction

Summary

All Of It: The Historic Discoveries Unearthed By The Gateway Tunnel Project Construction
Host: Kate Hines (in place of Alison Stewart)
Release Date: July 23, 2025
Duration: Approximately 25 minutes
Podcast: All Of It by WNYC

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Introduction

In this episode of All Of It, host Kate Hines delves into the intricate developments surrounding New York City's transit infrastructure, with a particular focus on the Gateway Tunnel Project. Joining her is Stephen Nessen, WNYC and Gothamist transportation reporter, who provides expert insights into the project's progress, challenges, and broader implications for commuters. The episode also touches upon related topics such as subway flooding, bike lane controversies, and future subway expansions.

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Gateway Tunnel Project: Progress and Discoveries

Timestamp: [01:56] - [09:24]

Stephen Nessen opens the discussion with an overview of the Gateway Program, a monumental $16 billion initiative aimed at replacing the aging Hudson River Tunnel, which was compromised during Superstorm Sandy in 2012. The project addresses the tunnel's deteriorated state, emphasizing the urgent need for its replacement to ensure the safety and efficiency of rail services operated by Amtrak and New Jersey Transit.

• Key Points:
  • The Gateway Program has been in the planning stages for decades, facing numerous delays primarily due to funding and logistical challenges.
  • Recently secured funding has allowed the project to move forward, marking a significant milestone after a year of preparation.
  • Construction is centered around the West Side of Manhattan, particularly near the High Line and Hudson Yards, areas still built on landfill rather than natural bedrock.

Notable Discoveries: During excavation, workers have unearthed remnants of Manhattan's past, including:

• Pig Bones: Found amidst the detritus, likely remnants from the historical meatpacking district where waste was irresponsibly discarded (Timestamp: [04:23]).
• Two-Story Staircase: An enigmatic structure whose original purpose remains unclear (Timestamp: [04:21]).

Kate Hines draws a parallel to the film Poltergeist, humorously noting the discovery of "pig bones" beneath the city to emphasize the hidden histories being uncovered (Timestamp: [05:30]).

Impact on Infrastructure:

• The Gateway Tunnel will significantly enhance rail capacity, potentially doubling the number of trains running from New Jersey into Penn Station from 24 to 48 trains per hour (Timestamp: [06:02]).
• However, Penn Station currently lacks the track capacity to accommodate this increase, necessitating further expansions.
• Discussions about through-running—where NJ Transit trains could extend services into the Long Island Railroad network—are ongoing, spearheaded by Andy Byford, who oversees Penn Station redevelopment (Timestamp: [07:24]).

Community and Traffic Disruptions:

• The ongoing digging is expected to disrupt traffic on the West Side Highway. Stephen anticipates lane shifts and potential slowdowns lasting up to a year (Timestamp: [08:29]).
• Additionally, future impacts on Hudson River Park's bike lanes are anticipated, though timeline specifics are a year out (Timestamp: [08:29]).

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Listener Questions and MTA Policies

Timestamp: [09:13] - [11:13]

Kate Hines introduces a listener concern regarding MTA fare hikes and the transition from MetroCards to the OMNY payment system.

• Fare Increases:

  • The MTA adheres to a structured process for fare hikes, including public hearings and board approvals. However, delays and procedural changes have led to uncertainty about the timing of the next fare increase (Timestamp: [09:37]).
  • The proposed fare hike could see a single ride fare increase to $3, impacting regular commuters, especially those reliant on 30-day unlimited MetroCards (Timestamp: [11:15]).

• OMNY Transition:

  • The OMNY system, set to replace MetroCards by the end of the year, offers a tap-and-go payment method using contactless cards and devices (Timestamp: [10:54]).
  • While convenient for many, heavy users with 30-day needs find the new system costlier, raising concerns about the absence of an unlimited option within OMNY (Timestamp: [09:37]).

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Subway Flooding and Infrastructure Challenges

Timestamp: [11:53] - [14:26]

The conversation shifts to the alarming 28th Street Geyser, a subway platform flooding phenomenon that has garnered significant attention.

• Incident Description:

  • Visually akin to a geyser, water burst forth from manholes, creating hazardous conditions on the platform (Timestamp: [12:04]).
  • While videos depict a dramatic surge of water, on-the-ground experiences reveal the resilience and composure of New Yorkers during such events (Timestamp: [14:14]).

• Causes:

  • The flooding is attributed to Manhattan's historical marshland topography, particularly around 28th Street, which channels heavy rainstorms into the subway system (Timestamp: [12:35]).
  • Urban development has encroached upon these natural water pathways without adequate infrastructure updates, exacerbated by climate change and unusually intense storms (Timestamp: [14:19]).
  • The century-old sewer system was not designed to handle current or future rainfall volumes, leading to overwhelmed drainage systems during extreme weather events (Timestamp: [13:30]).

Stephen emphasizes the cumulative impact of altered landscapes, removal of natural water-absorbing vegetation, and outdated infrastructure as critical factors contributing to subway flooding (Timestamp: [14:14]).

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Bike Lanes and Bedford Avenue Controversy

Timestamp: [16:00] - [23:03]

The episode explores the contentious issue of bike lane usage and recent conflicts on Bedford Avenue in Brooklyn.

• Delivery Bikes in Bike Lanes:

  • A listener named Sky raises concerns about Amazon pedal carts monopolizing bike lanes, impeding actual cyclists’ mobility (Timestamp: [16:02]).
  • Stephen acknowledges the problem, noting the lack of city enforcement and the push from logistics companies for increased delivery options (Timestamp: [17:41]).

• Bedford Avenue Bike Lane:

  • The newly installed protected bike lane, intended to offer a safe passage separated from vehicular traffic, has become a flashpoint in Williamsburg.
  • A tragic incident involving a child being struck by an E-bike rider has intensified opposition from the Orthodox Jewish community, leading to legal battles and calls for the bike lane's removal (Timestamp: [18:26]).
  • Mayor Adams, seeking re-election support, has faced pressure to dismantle portions of the bike lane, but judicial rulings have so far maintained its presence pending further court decisions (Timestamp: [20:44]).

Community Dynamics:

• The controversy highlights the tension between urban planning for cyclists and the concerns of local communities about safety and traffic disruptions (Timestamp: [20:44]).
• The issue remains unresolved as legal proceedings continue, reflecting broader debates on urban transportation priorities (Timestamp: [21:19]).

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Second Avenue Subway: Future Expansions

Timestamp: [21:03] - [23:03]

Stephen provides updates on the Second Avenue Subway, currently extending from Harlem to 96th Street via the Q train.

• Current Developments:

  • The initial phase, celebrated for bringing new stops and easing congestion, represented a significant achievement but was criticized for its high costs and oversized station designs (Timestamp: [21:03]).
  • Labelled as the "most expensive mile of subway" by The New York Times, the project has faced scrutiny over budget overruns and construction complexities (Timestamp: [21:20]).

• Next Phase:

  • The upcoming expansion to 116th Street is slated to cost approximately $7.7 billion and is projected to open in 2032 (Timestamp: [22:43]).
  • Work involves retrofitting existing tunnels from the 1970s, securing property rights, and relocating utilities to facilitate construction (Timestamp: [22:56]).

Challenges and Expectations:

• The MTA continues to navigate financial constraints and engineering hurdles to advance the Second Avenue Subway, underscoring the long-term nature of subway infrastructure projects (Timestamp: [23:02]).

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Lightning Round: Additional Transit Topics

Timestamp: [23:06] - [25:48]

In a rapid-fire segment, Kate and Stephen tackle several pressing transit issues:

1. Subway Air Conditioning Failures:

   • Older subway lines suffer from unreliable air conditioning systems, leading to uncomfortable conditions for riders during hot weather (Timestamp: [23:15]).
   • The MTA is addressing these issues, but challenges persist due to the complexity and age of the existing infrastructure. Newer R211 cars offer improved climate control with built-in redundancies (Timestamp: [23:26]).

2. New Subway Cars and Open Gangway Trains:

   • The introduction of open gangway trains on the C and G lines has been well-received, promoting better passenger flow and comfort (Timestamp: [24:07]).
   • The MTA plans to expand the deployment of these popular train models across more lines, contingent on their continued reliability and positive reception (Timestamp: [24:32]).

3. OMNY System Concerns:

   • The transition to the OMNY payment system has faced technological hiccups, including account cancellations and overcharging issues (Timestamp: [24:34]).
   • Despite initial problems, the MTA is working to resolve these system flaws, though public trust remains a significant hurdle (Timestamp: [24:53]).

4. Listener Feedback on OMNY:

   • Kate addresses multiple listener concerns about the phasing out of MetroCards without adequate replacements for unlimited riding options, exacerbating frustrations among frequent commuters (Timestamp: [24:46]).

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reaffirmation of the critical issues facing New York City's transit system. From the ambitious Gateway Tunnel Project and its archaeological surprises to the immediate challenges of subway flooding and bike lane disputes, All Of It provides a comprehensive look at the multifaceted nature of urban transportation in one of the world's busiest cities. Kate Hines and Stephen Nessen underscore the importance of community engagement and systemic improvements to navigate the complexities of expanding and maintaining a resilient transit network.

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Notable Quotes:

• Stephen Nessen [01:56]: "The Gateway program is basically a plan to replace the existing Hudson River Tunnel that was damaged during Superstorm Sandy. It's a $16 billion project, and now everything's ready to go."
• Stephen Nessen [07:24]: "Through-running would mean that trains wouldn't have to stop at Penn Station and turn around as they do now, saving time and making the system more efficient."
• Kate Hines [12:35]: "The water flows in naturally because the historical marshes and streams are still part of the city's topography, exacerbating subway flooding."
• Stephen Nessen [20:44]: "The Bedford Avenue bike lane is currently in place, but its future is being decided in the courts after community opposition."
• Kate Hines [24:46]: "We have a lot of texts about OMNY and the price of the monthly MetroCard and how sad we are to see that go away."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions presented in the episode, providing listeners with a clear understanding of the major transit developments and challenges in New York City.

Transcript

[Kate Hines]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Kate Hines in for Alison Stewart. Thanks for spending part of your day with us. Coming up on today's show, we'll speak with the director and editor of the new video essay Video Heaven, which is a film about film culture. Then sports journalist Benjamin Hill and minor league super van WNYC senior producer Rex Doan are here to talk minor league baseball. Plus, some folks from the Infatuation join us to share their list of the best ice cream places in New York City. That's the plan. So let's get this started with a trip underground. We're kicking off today's show with a topic that covers subway geysers, shifting bike lanes, hidden stairs, and even pig bones. Yes, I'm talking about New York City transit. Joining me now is WNYC and Gothamist transportation reporter Stephen Nessen. He's here to take your calls and talk about the latest in commuter news. Welcome, Stephen.

[Stephen Nessen]

Hello, Kate.

[Kate Hines]

And listeners. We want to get you in on this conversation. You have a primo transit reporter sitting across from me and you can ask him anything. You have questions about Gateway, the Bedford Avenue bike lane, subways, ferries, Boulder buses. If it's transit related, Steven can probably answer it. Give us a call. 212-433-9692. That's 212433, WNYC. You can also hit us up on social media@olivenyc. So, Stephen, I teased pig bones. I have to bring up pig bones right away. One of your latest stories is on the Gateway program. Remind us what this is and why we're talking about it right now.

[Stephen Nessen]

Wow. Okay, so let's get into it. The Gateway program, it's easy to sort of like hear the name and let it wash over you because we've been mentioning it for decades. But this is basically a plan to replace the existing Hudson River Tunnel that was damaged during Superstorm Sandy way back that 2012. Infamous. That tunnel was damaged. It's still in use, but experts and everyone say it's crumbling. It needs to be replaced and repaired. So many, many years ago, there was a plan to build another tunnel and it took the it's owned by Amtrak, by the way. And it's taken them this long to get the plan in place, the funding, how exactly to coordinate it all, all of this and the money. It's now a $16 billion project, but everything's lined up. The cards have fallen into place or whatever metaphor you want.

[Kate Hines]

The rail cars are connected.

[Stephen Nessen]

Everything's in place. It's Ready to go. Work is underway. Finally, we're just at the one year mark since they actually got all the funding to make this happen. So now we can really see stuff happening. So I was out, excuse me, I was out taking a look at what's been happening for the past year. So you want to get right down to the pig bones of it. Basically. Obviously they have to dig this new tunnel. And you're digging in a part of the city that's built up. It's been built up over the years. It's like basically been built up and then destroyed and then built up again.

[Kate Hines]

So where on the west side is the digging happening?

[Stephen Nessen]

So we're talking about pretty much at 30th street on the west side of Manhattan. And if you've been there recently, there's a high line there. Now there's Hudson yards. All of this is like relatively new, you know, speaking, you know, as far as New York City goes. So what's happening right now is they're digging under the ground and they're finding all kinds of fun stuff because the west side, as you and many of your listeners probably know, is actually landfill. It's not like New York bedrock, the classic bedrock they have to dig through. So they're finding ghosts of Manhattan's past over there. When the meatpacking district actually, you know, did meet. And not just art exhibits and high end galleries. So they're digging these things up and they found a trove of pig bones, which was very interesting. They found a two story staircase under the ground, which experts aren't quite sure where it led to.

[Kate Hines]

Wait, can I back up about the pig bones?

[Stephen Nessen]

Yes.

[Kate Hines]

Is that because there was a pig processing plant? Was there a farm? Like, where did the pig bones come from?

[Stephen Nessen]

Not exactly sure, but the meatpacking district was there and I think, you know, when you want to get rid of stuff, you just threw it out your window and dumped it on the side of the road. And I, I, you know, I surmise that's that's what happened, but nobody's like, like this was one company that was constantly dumping bones. I haven't heard about that.

[Kate Hines]

What are they doing with the detritus that they discover?

[Stephen Nessen]

Good question. There's definitely like experts who are looking at these geo scans that they do of the ground because they don't just want to send a digger in there willy nilly, just like hacking up stuff because they might find something, you know, actually quite significant. So they have these geo scans and they're analyzing them. They did find the foundation of a soap factory, which is interesting. But I think they're just being very meticulous and careful, and maybe that's another reason why this project is so slow. They're not just like, rip it up, guys. Like, they're being pretty careful about this. They're not just sending the. The drill in to, like, you know, toss everything.

[Kate Hines]

This is like, it's how the film Poltergeist got started. Like, you dig up the graveyard and you don't dispose of the remains or treat them respectfully. We don't want a haunted Gateway Tunnel.

[Stephen Nessen]

This is true.

[Kate Hines]

I'm gonna get a little bit of transit nerdery on because, as you know, I used to be a transportation reporter, and I'm contractually obligated to point out that Governor Chris Christie canceled the first iteration of this Trans Hudson Tunnel way back in 2010. But what is this new tunnel going to do for New Jersey Transit and Amtrak rider if and when it's ever completed?

[Stephen Nessen]

Well, not. I mean, when it's completed. I mean, I guess if. But they're pretty confident this is going to get completed. And basically it's going to double the capacity of trains that can go from New Jersey into Penn Station. So right now It's, I believe, 24 trains an hour. So they'll be able to run 48 trains an hour.

[Kate Hines]

Does Penn Station have the track capacity for that?

[Stephen Nessen]

Currently they do not, Kate. That's the next, next phase of Gateway. How are you going to, you know, allow more trains to run per hour and, you know, really allow more people to get there faster? But that would involve. Right now, there's talks, there were talks anyways about knocking down an entire block of midtown to expand the number of tracks underground that everyone's sort of not in favor of that at the moment. Hochul said no, most folks do not want to do that. It's disruptive and. No, but. So they're trying to find other ways to do that. You want to get real transit nerdery. We'll use the phrase through running, which everyone's sort of looking at and studying now. And Andy Byford, a name that transit nerdery knows and loves well, is in charge of the Penn Station redevelopment now. He works at Amtrak. President Trump put him in charge, and he's very much in favor of studying through running and seeing if that could be a way to get more people through Penn Station faster.

[Kate Hines]

Explain how through, like through running. Are we talking about Long Island Railroad trains going out to New Jersey?

[Stephen Nessen]

Exactly, Exactly.

[Kate Hines]

Mind blown.

[Stephen Nessen]

Mind blowing. It would yeah, so trains wouldn't have to stop at Penn Station, turn around as they do now. Like New Jersey Transit trains, when they arrive, they actually just lay up or go up to Sunnyside Yards until it's time to go back home again. But they could just be going out to Long island and saving everyone a lot of time and effort with parking trains for the day, which is not efficient.

[Kate Hines]

Listeners, we want to get you in on this conversation. Join Stephen Nessen and I in our Transit nerdery. Hit us up with any and all of your transportation questions. 2124-3396-9221-2433, WNYC. And our next topic is going to be subway flooding. I especially want to hear from listeners who experienced the joys of of the subway system last Monday night. But before we go there, Stephen, last question on Gateway. You have reported that west side highway drivers should expect some disruptions from the digging of the Gateway project. What should they expect?

[Stephen Nessen]

Well, we don't actually have a date. They said it could be as soon as next month. It could be in the fall. But to do this digging, they're digging a tunnel underground under the west side Highway. So to sort of make more room for these giant digging machines, they tell me they have to actually shift the lanes of the highway over, so the median is going to be gone and they're just going to move the traffic over. So I'm told no lanes of traffic will actually be removed. But this will be a work zone. So you can imagine there will be some slowdowns and it could last for a year. And eventually I'm told the bike lane in Hudson river park could be impacted, but that's like a year ahead. But eventually they do need to do work on that side as well.

[Kate Hines]

Okay, I have a text from a listener that I'll address to you that says can the MTA raise the fare without, without any review and approval from the state government? I mean, introducing Omni in the place of an unlimited Metro card is actually a fair hike. I'm paying $132 right now for a 30 day card with Omni. It will be up to $170 for 30 days, which is a pretty substantial difference.

[Stephen Nessen]

Stephen, there's a lot there. There's a couple things there. The MTA does have, like a policy and procedure they have to follow for a fair hike. There has to be public hearings. They have to give public notice. The MTA board has to approve it. The board is made up of members appointed by the state and the city so, you know, theoretically, I guess the caller's asking, can anyone stop this? I guess they could, but yeah, I.

[Kate Hines]

Mean, I think to the number check is, you know, the MTA has said, like in the selling of the Omni, it's something like after your 13th swipe, it's free for a seven day period. How does that math compare to the unlimited Metro card?

[Stephen Nessen]

We've posed that to them and they, they still maintain that it's a better deal for the seven day. But for a rider like the one you spoke with, and I've heard from many people as well, it doesn't add up with the way that they use the system. Everyone uses it slightly differently and has different work days. So it's true, like if you're a heavy 30 day user and the math does work out that you would pay slightly more with Omni. But the MTA really maintains that the seven day is the best deal. But as the caller didn't quite mention, but I should mention, the Metro card is going away at the end of this year.

[Kate Hines]

At the end of this year.

[Stephen Nessen]

This year, no more swiping, no more swipes. The Omni will be the only option. And the MTA hasn't said if they're going to include a 30 day unlimited option with Omni. But, and we haven't heard anything yet. And like they were talking about the fair hike, like that is coming later this year as well.

[Kate Hines]

There's going to be a fair hike later this year.

[Stephen Nessen]

The biannual, excuse me, 4%.

[Kate Hines]

Didn't that used to be in the spring?

[Stephen Nessen]

It used to be in August, actually. They approved, they discussed it in the spring. They approved it in the spring and then goes into effect in August. They're pushing it back this year. Crazy year. But the single ride could go up to $3.

[Kate Hines]

Okay, I'm talking to WNYC and Gothamist transportation reporter Stephen Nessen about subways, bike lanes and more. We're taking your calls. 212-433-9692. So speaking of the subway, let's talk about what happened last week and the 28th Street Geyser. We're making it sound like a feature in Yellowstone.

[Stephen Nessen]

It is kind of a geological feature. They could put it in tourist books.

[Kate Hines]

Many of our listeners probably saw the footage from last week's flooding. Why was 28th street hit so hard?

[Stephen Nessen]

That was a question I wanted to, I was asking as well, because if you recall, during Ida, the same thing happened. These videos, if you haven't seen them, we can describe it. It's like, really stunning. It's like a subway platform. Everyone knows what a subway platform looks like, but there's just an immense amount of water coming out of the manhole just in spurts, and it's just shooting up. And, you know, you can imagine if you were on the platform, it would just be terrifying. It looks like you could just get swept away in this, like, rush of water.

[Kate Hines]

In the videos I saw, people looked forward, fairly sanguine. I was really proud of our New Yorkers.

[Stephen Nessen]

I mean, I think everything looks worse in a video.

[Kate Hines]

Yeah, that's true.

[Stephen Nessen]

So you can't see the bigger picture. Like, it's. Anyways, you want to know why is this happening? That's the question I wanted to ask as well. So I went to an ecologist who's an expert in New York City topography and geography, and basically what he pointed me to was the fact that before New York City, Manhattan was developed, it was a lot of Marshland there. And 28th street sits in this, like, marshy bowl where all these different streams kind of funnel into. And the subway station is just, like, smack in the middle of this marsh. So when we get a heavy rainstorm, rain still flows in that direction. Like, you can't. You know, they didn't. They built on top of the marsh, but they didn't, like, excavate the marsh so that it was no longer there. Like, you know, the bowl that existed historically is still there. So the water flows in naturally. That's where water goes when it wants to go back to the ocean. It goes into these marshes and streams, and so that's why it happened. And, you know, he was saying, we've actually really made it worse because we've removed all the soil with the trees that may have absorbed some of this water in the past. That makes it worse. Of course, with climate change, these localized storms were just dumps. Immense amount of water in a short period of time is also, you know, unprecedented. And we're just getting more and more of them. Add to that, the. The sewer system was designed 100 years ago, and it was designed for the rainstorms of that time, not for these epic downpours. So you combine all these elements, and you get a subway geyser, and the.

[Kate Hines]

MTA is already pumping out, like, millions of gallons of water on a dry day.

[Stephen Nessen]

Like, I think it I. They told me 10 million gallons of water on a dry day.

[Kate Hines]

That's nuts.

[Stephen Nessen]

15 on, like, a heavy storm, we.

[Kate Hines]

Got a text from a listener that says, wait, can I still tap my credit card? I think we're talking about when the Metro card goes away.

[Stephen Nessen]

Yes, yes. Omni tap. I think what the MTA envisions, what I think what their goal for this system was was not necessarily to have a card, although they obviously have to make a card available to people who don't have a credit card. But they just assume a future where so many people just use their phones or their credit cards for everything and you have the little chip in it, you just tap. You don't have to think about it.

[Kate Hines]

We'll be back with more of your calls and more transportation talk with Stephen Nessen in just a moment. But first I wanted to say if you've been enjoying this conversation or any of the other discussions we have on this show or any of the shows here on wnyc, we're asking for a favor. Congress has voted to end federal funding for public broadcasting. It means WNYC and WQXR will lose nearly $6 million over the next two years. Your support is critical. Stand with us and start or increase your monthly sustaining donation now by going to wnyc.org we'll be back in a minute to keep talking transit with Stephen Nessen. Don't go anywhere. This is all of it. This is all of it. I'm Kate Hines in for Alison Stewart. We are talking transportation with WNYC and Gothamist reporter Stephen Nesson. And let's get to some of your phone calls. Let's hear from sky in Brooklyn. Hi sky, you're on all of it.

[Sky]

Hi guys, how are you?

[Kate Hines]

Good, how are you?

[Sky]

I'm doing great, doing great. So my question pertains to the bike lanes in the city. I'm an avid biker and now my daughters are bikers, 13 year old and 9 year old. And recently we saw an armada of Amazon pedal carts coming down the bike lane. So my question is what is the city doing about dedicating and keeping these bike lanes for actual cyclists as opposed to delivery people? So thank you so much guys.

[Kate Hines]

Thanks for calling Sky. Steven, take it away.

[Stephen Nessen]

Sky. That's a great question. I myself am also an avid biker and I have been passed by on the by these like it is. It's like a three wheel like Tuk Tuk almost with is piled high with Amazon deliveries. It's a great question. I don't know that the city has any intention of getting them out of the bike lane. I do know they're trying to encourage more of these deliveries. They have these micro hubs that they're piloting so like trucks can make deliveries in these one locations and then sort of send out their trucks to make the local deliveries to get the trucks off the road. But I haven't heard so much about getting the. Those actual bikes out of the bike lanes. I think, you know, in the past when DOT has done presentations for the, for the press about this, they've shown how it's like, look, these are so much better than delivery trucks in your neighborhood. I think they're sort of encouraging them to actually use the bike lane. But like you said, when you see an armada of them coming toward you and they're, you know, jostling along and crowding you out of this narrow bike lane, that's also not pleasant.

[Kate Hines]

I was wondering, who is allowed to use a bike lane? Like, if you have a motorcycle, can you use a bike lane? If you have an E bike, can you use a bike lane?

[Stephen Nessen]

I mean, I think if you have a. Whatever the class is that requires a license plate, you need to go in a vehicle lane. But every other vehicle, I believe, is allowed in. In the lane, in the bike lane.

[Kate Hines]

Listeners, you can get in on this conversation. Give us a call. 2124-4339-6922-2433. WNYC. And Steven, since we're talking about bike lanes, let's talk about one that has been in the news a lot lately. Bedford Avenue in Brooklyn. Yes, tell us what it is. What was supposed to happen? What is happening?

[Stephen Nessen]

So this is a very controversial bike lane. It runs through Bedford Stuyvesant to South Williamsburg. And so it's in the news now because just last year the DOT installed a protected bike lane there, Protected, for those who don't know, means there is a row of parked cars between the curb and, and the street. And that in, in that lane in between, that's protected for cyclists. So you're not likely to be clipped by a moving vehicle. That is like the preferred gold standard for bike lanes. And that's what cyclists prefer to ride in because it's the safest. But many people in Williamsburg, the Orthodox Jewish community there, don't necessarily love the bike lanes. And in May, a little girl was crossing in the middle of the street and was clipped by an E bike rider, and she was flung to the ground. And there's video of this, and it was obviously sent around on social media. And the people of the community there were outraged, and they called on Mayor Adams to remove this bike lane. And Mayor Adams, as we all know, is running for reelection and has been very pliable to community pressure. Especially well connected members of certain communities. Whether it's in Greenpoint with businesses that, you know, have business or have donated to the mayor, he really listens to them. In Fordham, he also capitulated to a bus lane redesign that folks didn't want there. You know, well connected people. So in Williamsburg, you know, this. The Orthodox Jewish vote is one that he definitely is trying to court and by, you know, throwing them a bone, so to speak, saying, sure, I'll remove part of the bike lane. So he's. He pushed to remove three blocks of it from Flushing to Willoughby, which is quite crucial because it would send drivers into this very busy. Three lanes of traffic. Excuse me, bikers. Into this busy lane. But a judge said, hold on, hold on. You can't just do that. And then a judge reversed himself and said, wait, actually, you can. And then the judge came back and said, wait, hold on, you can't. Groups have sued to stop this. So it's working its way through the courts now. The current status is the bike lane is in place. A judge says you cannot remove it yet, but it'll be decided in the courts now.

[Kate Hines]

Hmm. Let's go back below ground. Second Avenue subway. So it's scheduled. The next leg is scheduled to open in 2032. Remind me of the. Currently, the Second Avenue subway goes from Ware to 96th Street. It's like 53rd. And it's the Q train.

[Stephen Nessen]

The Q train, right. They added the three new stops. That was actually my very first day as a transit reporter was to cover the opening of the Second Avenue subway. I thought, wow, this is fun. Look at New York. It's really doing stuff. Things are really happening. And so those three new stops.

[Kate Hines]

Excelsior.

[Stephen Nessen]

Excelsior, exactly. So that was widely celebrated. And then suddenly everyone's like, wait a minute. What did it take to get this done? And what it took was diverting massive amounts of resources to the subway system, which led to the summer of hell. But we got the three new Second Avenue subway stations open, and they're massive and huge, and people are later like, wait, did it need to be that big? And even the MTA admitted those stations are unnecessarily big or they didn't need to be that large. And that led to a lot of the expense. It was really. It was infamously dubbed the most expensive mile of subway by the New York Times. And that's a moniker that's so hard to live down. Yeah, but. But that said, the MTA is progressing with its next phase of the Second Avenue subway going to 116th Street. And this is really crucial, and it's really interesting stretch because part of it was already dug in the 70s, so they're not totally doing this from scratch, but they do need to, like, retrofit and build up these tunnels to make them safer and bigger and wider to accommodate everything. But that work is underway and the MTA is currently doing the stuff that they do to get this done, which is, you know, securing rights to property, relocating utilities, and essentially that's where they are in the process right now. We don't have any fun junkets underground to see digging just yet.

[Kate Hines]

When, how much is it going to cost and when is it going to open?

[Stephen Nessen]

Good question. I don't have the date in front of me. It's gonna still cost billions to happen, and it's not gonna be done for some time. I can say.

[Kate Hines]

Well, I can tell you that our producer, Simon Close, researched it and came up with it scheduled to open in 20. 32.

[Stephen Nessen]

32. Thank you.

[Kate Hines]

And it's meant to cost $7.7 billion.

[Stephen Nessen]

Yes.

[Kate Hines]

In the few minutes we have left, we just have a. Let's get through a couple more things. I'm gonna throw you my lightning round of questions.

[Stephen Nessen]

Oh, boy. Hit me.

[Kate Hines]

Hot car Summer. What subway lines are the have the air conditioning that has failed the most and what is being done to address it?

[Stephen Nessen]

Notoriously, it's the one line right next to WNYC as well. We. We love the one here, but not the hot car. And the MTA is working on it. Although the problem is they have these ancient train yards where it's actually hard to access the air conditioner at some points. So that's why you often have hot cars, because it's just harder to fix them. And it's just older system. If one part of it fails, the whole thing fails. Whereas the newer cars, they have some redundancy. So I've been enjoying the cool R211s. They seem to have very reliable air conditioners.

[Kate Hines]

Speaking of new subway cars, when are we going to get. Are we going to get more of the new fancy open gangway trains that are currently running on the C and the G lines?

[Stephen Nessen]

Yes, it turned out people actually love these trains. There was a lot of trepidation from the MTA about them, and they initially only rolled out on the C train. Now they're running on the G line. So they're not really in full wide service yet. They're sort of on very limited lines, but they're popular enough with the public. And the MTA hasn't had too many issues that we've heard about, so they did put in an order for some more of them with their new order of train cars that'll be coming in the coming years.

[Kate Hines]

And Steven, is there anything I didn't ask you that you especially wanted to make sure our listeners know about?

[Stephen Nessen]

What a question. I think Omni is really the biggest concern that I'm hearing from a lot of folks.

[Kate Hines]

We have a lot of texts about Omni and the price of the monthly Metro card and how sad we are to see that go away.

[Stephen Nessen]

I would say stay tuned. The MTA is well aware that people do like and love the 30 day, so I imagine there could be some news on that front, especially as the omnycard goes away. There was also all the problems with people being overcharged, or at least it looked like they were overcharged. You had the same problem where, like, you couldn't even tap in. It said your account was, like, canceled. So, yeah, a lot of Omni technological hiccups that they supposedly have resolved, although I still hear people complaining from time to time. But there were some major problems with the software update and that just like, blew everything up. But it does point to a lot of distrust people have of the system of the mta. And they complain that, like, we're doing good, we're a new mta. But then these things happen and people are really frustrated to see it. They don't. They want everything to work right. And, you know, and it doesn't always.

[Kate Hines]

Happen that way, as we know. Stephen Nessen is a transportation reporter for WNYC in Gothamist. Stephen, thanks so much for joining us.

[Stephen Nessen]

Thank you for having me, Kate.

[Ira Flatow]

This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.