Podcast Summary: The History of Reality TV with Emily Nussbaum
Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Koosha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Emily Nussbaum, Pulitzer Prize-winning TV critic and author of Cue the Sun: The Invention of Reality TV
Date: June 25, 2024
Episode Overview
This episode delves into the cultural significance, evolution, and controversies surrounding reality television, following the release of Emily Nussbaum’s new book chronicling reality TV’s historic rise from “Candid Camera” to “The Bachelor.” The conversation unpacks how reality TV has influenced not only politics and entertainment but also the ways Americans view themselves, their relationships, and fame itself.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. The Enduring Influence and Value of Reality TV
[03:45]
- Nussbaum’s Defense: Reality TV is more than a “junk art form”—it’s “at the center of the culture,” affecting self-perception, storytelling, and even politics.
- She argues for examining the genre as an evolving, powerful force—“their nosiness, their brutality, isn't an argument for looking away. It's a reason to look closer.” (Nussbaum, 01:00)
2. Moral Panics and Historical Precedents
[04:58]
- Moral panics about reality TV go back “to literally the 40s,” with early shows facing accusations of narcissism and lowering cultural standards.
- Criticisms like being “cheap, tawdry—a strike breaker, a way to make stories without paying writers or actors” are cyclical, echoing modern debates.
3. Defining Moments: “An American Family” & “The Real World”
[06:19] — “An American Family” (1973)
- The series followed the Loud family and was intended as a serious documentary, but it became a “moral crisis” and America’s first major reality show.
- Quote: “The show was filmed as a documentary, but it was received as a reality show.” (Nussbaum, 11:04)
- Shock over parents’ divorce and openly gay son Lance Loud highlighted society’s discomfort with intimate real-life storytelling.
[07:52] — “The Real World” (MTV, 1992)
- Considered the start of “modern reality TV,” mixing documentary, soap opera, and manipulative elements.
- Innovations: “field producer” role, the “confessional” format, and casting strangers to live together as a diverse “manufactured family.”
- Quote: “They created the use of the confessional... all of that stuff was being made up as it went along.” (Nussbaum, 07:52)
4. The Drive for Fame & Performing the Self
[12:50]
- The desire for celebrity is intertwined with reality TV since its origins, with some contestants seeing TV exposure as artistic expression (“Lance Loud... imagined himself in a Warhol movie.”)
- Sophistication among participants has increased, but so has the illusion of control—many underestimate how little say they'll have over their story.
5. The Evolution into a Major Industry
[16:23]
- Early reality shows were “unique one-offs” or “gimmicks.”
- The shift to multi-format, ongoing series didn't emerge until entrepreneurs like Mark Burnett (producer of “Survivor” and “The Apprentice”) proved the commercial viability by shrewd marketing and product integration.
- Quote: “He actually cut a brilliant deal himself... If you put this on as a summer experiment, and it literally gets zero ratings, you still lose no money.” (Nussbaum, 17:41)
6. The Blurring of Fact and Fiction
[20:02]
- Producers are often candid about “manipulation,” with storylines shaped by editing and producer intervention.
- Nussbaum pushes back on the notion that it’s all fake: “That mixture of fakery and realness is obviously native to the genre. But ... some of what's happening isn't authentic, despite the contrivances.”
- “Survivor” is lauded for merging social strategy (game), soap opera, and prank elements as the “perfect storm” of reality TV.
7. Reality TV’s Political Impact: The Apprentice and Donald Trump
[25:10]
- Nussbaum asserts that “Trump would not have been elected without The Apprentice,” which rebranded him for America as a business icon.
- Behind the scenes, producers “saw it differently,” with some feeling guilt in hindsight for accidentally shaping a political future.
8. Labor & Unionization Issues
[27:17]
- Reality TV’s growth is partly due to its non-unionized labor force, making it attractive to networks (especially during writers’ strikes).
- Camera operators and editors have seen some union gains, but “producers are largely non unionized,” and only recently have cast rights discussions begun in earnest, aided by larger social movements.
9. The Future of Reality TV
[28:56]
- Nussbaum declines to predict specifics but notes “it’s not going anywhere”—the genre's passionate audience will ensure its survival.
- There’s hope for “a more ethical version” as awareness of contestant protection and workplace issues increases.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the power and stigma of reality TV:
"Reality has often been treated as a substance sold under the counter, less an art form than a drug, powerful because it was forbidden. But the discomfort that has always radiated around these shows, their nosiness, their brutality, isn't an argument for looking away. It's a reason to look closer."
— Emily Nussbaum (01:00) -
On the evolution of the genre:
“The Real World marked the point where the soap opera thread... became modernized... all of that stuff was being made up as it went along.”
— Emily Nussbaum (07:52) -
On the human cost of sudden fame:
“Once the show came out...they started doing a ton of press to try to tell their side of the story...people judged the Louds as looking for attention, and I think that's still the way people feel.”
— Emily Nussbaum (11:46) -
On participants' control:
“You might think you know what you're getting into, but you don't know very much about the structures of it and how production works...a larger proportion of people than you imagine go in thinking they can control it and not being able to.”
— Emily Nussbaum (23:38) -
On the political impact of ‘The Apprentice’:
"I truly don't think that Trump would have been elected without 'The Apprentice.' ... The big accomplishment of that show was rebranding Donald Trump."
— Emily Nussbaum (25:10) -
On reality TV’s industrial future:
“I don't think it's going anywhere. I mean, there is a vast audience that grew up on these shows... I think there might be a more ethical version that could be created. And that kind of is what remains to be seen.”
— Emily Nussbaum (28:56)
Timeline of Key Segments
- [03:45] — Why reality TV matters; the case for taking it seriously
- [04:58] — The history of moral panic and “junk TV” accusations
- [06:19] — “An American Family” as the first reality TV phenomenon
- [07:52] — “The Real World” and the creation of modern reality TV conventions
- [17:41] — Mark Burnett, “Survivor,” and the business of reality TV
- [20:02] — The manipulation/“soft scripting” of reality TV
- [23:38] — How reality stars (mis)understand control over their story
- [25:10] — “The Apprentice”’s effect on Donald Trump’s political rise
- [27:17] — Unionization and labor concerns in reality TV
- [28:56] — The future of the genre
Conclusion
The episode provides a fascinating, nuanced exploration of reality TV’s past, present, and future through the eyes of a leading critic. Nussbaum’s scholarship leads the listener through cultural anxieties, innovations, consequences, and the perpetual tension between authenticity and performance that defines the genre—ultimately underscoring that reality TV is inseparable from the evolution of both television and American society.