← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
The Legacy of the Late Bobby Weir and the Grateful Dead
00:24:07
David Browne, Rolling Stone contributing writer and author of So Many Roads: The Life and Times of the Grateful Dead, joins to talk about the legacy of the late Bobby Weir and the Grateful Dead.
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Alison Stewart
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. We've just been listening to my interview with Bobby Weir, the Grateful Dead co founder who passed away last week at the age of 78. Weir was at the helm of one of the most dedicated fan bases in music history. So now we want to open up the phone lines to the fans. Are you a Deadhead? How long have you been a fan of the band? How many concerts have you seen? What's your pick for their best show?
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Caller/Listener
What?
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Alison Stewart
What did their music mean to you? Our Phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433 wnyc. Call in and text your thoughts and memories. Maybe you have a memory of Bob Weir's other music projects. The other ones the Dead Kingfish. Our number is 212-433-WNYC. As your calls come in, I'm joined by David Brown, a Rolling Stone contributing writer who's also the author of so Many the Life and Times of the Grateful Dead.
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David Brown
It is great debate, Alison.
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Alison Stewart
So Bob Weir was the youngest member of the Dead. He was only a teenager when the band formed. What kind of music was young Bobby Weir into?
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David Brown
You know, what's really interesting about the Dead was the magic of the Dead was that each guy in that band came from like a completely different space musically. You know, Phil Lesh was into kind of classical experimental music, and Jerry was into like early rock and roll, bluegrass. And Bob was he came from this kind of like country folk kind of thing. He brought that element into it. You know, Bill Kurtzman was kind of a jazz guy, so it was really fascinating. And yeah, Bob was his taste expanded much after that. But, you know, he kind of brought a little bit of that kind of earthy. Kind of earthy quality to the band early on.
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Alison Stewart
The legend is that he was in the band and then he was fired.
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David Brown
Is that true? This is true.
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Alison Stewart
Okay.
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David Brown
This is true. I have heard the tape of that meeting. Oh, tell us more. Actually, it was in 1968 and there was a band meeting. And basically Jerry Garcia and Phil Lesh were not happy with him and Pigpen, Ron Pigpen, McKernan. It was also bad. They felt like they weren't kind of keeping up with the band. This is when the Dead was really starting to move from being a kind of COVID band, R B blues, to more, you know, jammy experimental. They were stretching out and they felt like Bob was a little in particular, was a little. He was known as, like, the spacey kid. He wasn't keeping up. You know, he had that reputation. He was eating, like, macrobiotic stuff and being kind of spacey. And so, yeah, they were like, well, we're not sure. It wasn't a direct fire. It was like, well, we're not sure you're right now, or that kind of thing. And they were like. There were pauses, but it was almost like that episode of Seinfeld where George Costanza is fired and he comes back to work and they like. He's like, you didn't fire me, did you? So they. They. They tried playing without him. They realized it wasn't good. And next thing you know, he just was there again. And they picked up. But. But that was a really important moment. He was, like, on the cusp of, like, losing his gig there.
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Alison Stewart
So why did he become so core to the group after being nearly let go?
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David Brown
Well, I think, first of all, his. He was more of a front man, which, you know. You know, it was funny, you know, when the dead in the 80s, right, when that Touch of Gray moment, the head of one of the big honchos at their record company went to see them and. And complained out loud that, like, when Jerry would take guitar solos, he would never, like, showboat. He would never walk to the front of the stage and do that thing. You know, he would just stand there and they would complain. Whereas Bob, especially during that time, was, you know, more than happy to kind of run around on stage. He was. He kind of brought that energy. He was a great. His guitar playing was a great compliment to Jerry. It wasn't just typical rhythm guitar playing. And he brought another voice and perspective. His voice and his songs were very different from. From Jerry's and occasionally Phil Lesh's. And I think that, you know, he had that sort of more. More romantic kind of quality to his song and his. So it. It. It, again, it was another important element in that band.
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Alison Stewart
I'm talking to music writer David Brown. His books include so Many the Life and Times of the Grateful Dead. And we're taking your calls. Tell us about your relationship with the Grateful Dead. End. Bob Weir. Our Phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. What's your favorite song? What's your favorite concert? Let's talk to Angelica, who's calling in from Monroe Township. Hi, Angelica. Thanks for making the time to call, all of it.
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David Brown
Thank you.
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Caller/Listener
I remember When I was 14 years old, my boyfriend's father dropped us off.
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David Brown
At Englishtown Raceway park, and it was all based on the Dead being there, and it was so awesome.
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Caller/Listener
Terrapin Station was out at that time.
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David Brown
And it was just.
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Caller/Listener
I mean, a Sly and the Family Stone were there. There were so many people there. It was great.
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David Brown
It was a big camping fest.
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Caller/Listener
It was just great.
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Alison Stewart
And what made you continue to be a Deadhead?
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Caller/Listener
I guess the lyrics, the words.
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Alison Stewart
That's what you need.
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David Brown
Yeah, yeah.
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Alison Stewart
It's interesting, her saying that. She got into it when she was just 14.
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David Brown
Yeah, I think a lot of us did. I was around that age when I first heard their music, too. And that, you know, that Englishtown show in 77 was so important because that was right when Terrapin Station came out and, like, that attracted a couple hundred thousand people. Like, up until that point, the Dead were popular and they could, you know, they didn't play Madison Square Garden until a couple years after that. So there was that period when people were like, well, they have a following and they seem like they're. They have fans. But when that. When things like that happened and they were headlining this whole day thing in oppressive heat, I don't know if you remember that, but it was incredibly hot. That was one of those moments where there were so many people who were trying to get in that they remember they circled the stage with campers as an unofficial gate around things. And that was an important, musically, a musical show, but also just like, as a cultural impact, it really was important.
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Alison Stewart
How did Bobby Weir carry on the mantle of the Grateful Dead after Jerry Garcia died?
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David Brown
You know, he, again, like, as sort of being the front man of the group. You know, he was the one who really had to kind of ramp up his role in a way. You know, I mean, they brought in Various people to play guitar with them over the years whenever they would reunite, like Warren Haynes or Trey Anastasio and so forth. But the focus really kind of shifted to Bob. And it was interesting that he. He would. He would often sing the songs that Jerry sang, like Touch of Gray. He grew a beard and white, which he kind of didn't really have. And he kind of like had a Jerry like vibe to him in a way. But I think, but more seriously, I mean, I think, you know, when I was. When I remember interviewing him at one point and he would just talk about. He would, he would, he would talk with reverence about like the band and its mission and its music and what it meant to the. To the fans. You know, like the other guys in the group would be kind of joking wise, wise acre y about things. You know, they took it seriously. But. But Bob had this kind of seriousness. It kind of came through in that interview. You guys just show ran too where he was. You know, it was. It was a serious obligation that was now on him to continue this and to. And to extend it, which he did right up until last, you know, fall.
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Alison Stewart
Let's talk to Tony, who's calling from Freepoint, Maine. Hi Tony, thanks for calling.
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Tony (Caller, Radio Host)
Hi, thanks for taking my call. Yeah, so you asked a lot of questions about some of us old Deadheads and our interest in the music. I just wanted to mention that I have a diver radio show on WBORG in. It's a Bowdoin college radio station. It's called Dead Air. And my mission really is to kind of promote this 300 year legacy that Bob had talked about. Try to get the next generation interested in the music. And you know, to some degree it's working. My kids are interested in step kids and. But I think it's like we think about all of the COVID bands that are playing the Grateful Dead across the country. I have a friend who pointed out once that as we were listening to Dark Star Orchestra just a couple weeks ago in Portland, Maine, that probably every night of the year there's at least one cover band playing the Grateful Dead across the country. And there aren't many bands where you could say that's true.
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Alison Stewart
That's true. Thanks for calling in. Let's talk to Mark in Staten Island. Hey Mark, thanks for calling all of it.
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Caller/Listener
Hey.
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Mark (Caller)
I got two different cross country trips associated with Bob Weir. Most recently I drove from Spokane, Washington back to New York. And after holding off for a year on the serious subscriptions that came with my car, I took it up in part so I could use the Grateful Dead channel and Little Steven as driving music. But in 1984, I was on my way west, and I had gotten from Santa Monica to Trancus on a hitchhiking attempt. On a Saturday, a couple at a restaurant offered to take me to a Bobby and the midnight show in Reseda. Maybe I would meet somebody who was on their way up the coast to Santa Cruz. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. I slept on the beach that night. But in the course of the year in Santa Cruz in 1984, I saw the Grateful Dead eight times. You've really got to hear the Woodstock show at some point. Pigpen is essentially pulling Weir out of an acid haze and using him as a musical instrument. It's beautiful.
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Alison Stewart
Thank you so much for calling in for that descriptive description there. You know, Bob was part of so many other bands. Rat Dog, Wolf Brothers that was mentioned, the Dead, Dead and company. What did his many other projects, David, what did it demonstrate about him as an artist?
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David Brown
I think it. It demonstrated that he was kind of eager to kind of make his own stamp on things, you know, like, you know, when he was briefly in a band called kingfish in the mid-70s, where he got to, you know, play with other musicians and sing some and try out some of his own songs without them. And I think also, like with the Wolf Brothers, you know, I remember hearing. Going to see him with the Wolf Brothers at the Beacon Theater a few years ago, and it was just Bob on guitar for most of the show. It's just like a trio. And you really got to hear his musicianship in a way that it highlighted his. The very idiosyncratic, unconventional way he had of playing guitar, which was not quite lead and not quite rhythm. It was very interesting syncopations. And I think projects like that kind of allow him to kind of stretch out a bit more like that and show kind of what he brought to the scene.
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Alison Stewart
We are talking to David Brown. He wrote the book so Many the Life and Times of the Grateful Dead. And we're taking your calls. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of It. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is music writer David Brown. His books include so Many the Life and Times of the Grateful Dead. And we are taking your calls. Tell us about your relationship with the Grateful Dead and Bobby Weir. What's your favorite song? What's your favorite concert? 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC we should play some music. You wanted to play Looks Like Rain. David, why did you want us to play this song?
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David Brown
This is a song from Bob's first solo album, ace, back in 72. And I think it really captured. It's a beautiful kind of haunting song with lyrics by John Perry Barlow, his longtime collaborator. And it's a great example of what we're brought to the Dead. You know, I think most people, when they think of the Dead, think, oh, it's Jerry's band. And think of his voice, you know, especially if you're not a Deadhead. But, you know, Bob brought this kind of, you know, kind of beautiful country folk sensibility and. And. And very more direct, emotional kind of performances and lyrics to the. To the song, to the band. And you started with Sugar Magnolia. That was really the first. Really. That's the song of his that first hit me first and established his kind of own identity in the band. And I think something like Looks at. Looks Like Rain, which has the Dead playing behind him, by the way, is a great example of a whole other musical spectrum that he, you know, brought to them.
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Alison Stewart
Let's hear it.
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David Brown
I might have drowned. It's just been high. Gotten used to having you around. My landscape would be empty if you go. It's all right. Cause I love you and that's not gonna change.
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Alison Stewart
Let's talk to Barbara in Woodbury. Hey, Barbara, thanks for calling in.
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Caller/Listener
Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Just wanted to say that, you know, Bob was such a special human being. Not just the way he touched people with his music, but with his activism. He was pro animal rights. He was a vegetarian. I met this love of my life, my soulmate, in 2008, and he died on November 3rd. I'm sorry, September 3rd, 2020, from cancer. Bob, was. He a huge part of our lives. We traveled all over the place to see Bob and Rat Dog. We went to, you know, Red Rocks. We went to Kentucky. We went to Illinois, Indiana. We went so many places to see Bob. And Bob is just woven Bob. We are just woven into the fabric of my life with my soulmate. And having Bob die now is almost like reliving Mike. His name was Bob, too. My mom's dying. Bob was just such a special human being. I did get him to meet him a few times. Just gracious, you know, I was just, like, an idiot fan, but, you know, just. Just a wonderful human being. And like. Like they say, you know, my landscape is empty now that he's gone, I feel.
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Alison Stewart
Barbara, thank you so much for calling in and for your candor, you were sharing, Dave, that backstage you. You met him, and it was a very different. Not different. You were. It was different than what people saw him as the sort of, you know, woo, woo. Bobby Weir, Right.
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David Brown
As we talked earlier, he had this reputation going back to his teen years as being like the spacey, younger member of the band. The other band members would kind of bust his chops a lot, including about his shorts. They would all make jokes about that.
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Alison Stewart
We know about the shorts. Everybody at VH1, you know about the shorts.
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David Brown
But I Remember back in 2009, the four core members and Warren Haynes reunited for a tour as the Dead. And they did a. They did three shows in one day here in New York City to kind of warm up for it. And I just tagging along with them the whole day. And, you know, Bob seemed very kind of. He was very nice, but he was kind of serious, a little. A little somber, a little soul. And the other guys were joking around and wisecracking and trying to kind of rekindle that vibe they had between them. And they did a show at a club downtown. They did the Gramercy Theater, and then they did Roselands with very little. Few breaks. I remember Bob was like, yeah, it's like a. It's like a tour with cab rides, you know. But I remember at the very. At the end of the very last show standing, I was standing with him and Mickey Hart, and Mickey, in his usual effusive way, was like, oh, it sounds great. You know, we're back. And Bob just was nodded and he said the arrangements could use some work. And it was like he was listening. Even though you might think watching him on stage that he seemed a little like, you know, floating around or whatever or not zeroing in. He was listening to every little thing. And it was really interesting to hear that. And it kind of brought Mickey down a little bit, I think. Oh, okay. Bob doesn't think it's quite right yet.
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Alison Stewart
That's interesting. Let's talk to Terry in Glen Rock. Hi, Terry. Thanks for calling, all of it.
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Terry (Caller)
Hey, Allison, thanks to you and Dave for doing this. Yeah, I think about Bobby and the fact that he was 16 when he joined the band and. And I was 16 when I first saw them. About a hundred shows over ten years, and then all the clone wars with all the iterations after that, but had the pleasure of going to the concourse at Jazz Fest Fairgrounds to hear an interview. Bobby, about 20 people, and someone had the foresight to ask him about if he still touched in with psychedelics. And he mentioned the fact that he just finished doing Austin City Limits, and he took some mushrooms that day, and his guitar neck turned into a snake. And he mentioned a line that I won't forget. He said, if you look at the video of that Austin City Limits show, you'll see moments of abject terror. I just thought it was really cool to learn that they still dabbled in some of the things that maybe the audience were doing at that time.
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Alison Stewart
That was well put. Thank you for. Thank you for very much for putting it.
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David Brown
There were drugs associated with the Dead. That's not true.
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Alison Stewart
Something like that.
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Caller/Listener
I don't know.
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Alison Stewart
You picked another song, David, for us to play. Hell in a Bucket. Why this song?
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David Brown
This is a song from their in the dark album in 1987. I think it captures some of that. That kind of cultish energy that Bob could bring to the Dead, not just on stage, but sometimes in the studio as well. He gets kind of like this song. And one more Saturday night, he had these moments where he had. He got them to kind of. Kind of rock out, maybe in a more traditional way. And. And the lyrics are really funny. Again with his collaborator Barlow, you know, about. You know, with bikers and breakups. And it's kind of a feisty kind of song that really, again, shows another kind of emotional musical element that Bob brought to the band.
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Alison Stewart
Here's Hell in a Bucket.
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David Brown
Well, I was drinking last night with a biker. And I showed him a picture of you. I said, now I'll get to know her. You like her? Seemed like the least I could do. Cause Whitney's charging his chopper up and down your carpeted halls. You'll think it's by contrast quite proper. Never mind I stumble and fall. Never mind I stumble and fall. You imagine me sipping champagne from your food. My taste of your elegant pot. I may be going the hell in a bucket thing.
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Alison Stewart
Hey, Josh is calling in from Brooklyn. What say you, Josh?
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Caller/Listener
Well, first, I'd like to thank you so much for dedicating this time, Tim. It's obvious from listening to everybody talk about Bobby Weir, how much he moved everybody. When I went, I was about 14 or 15 and, you know, sort of like glancingly into the dead. And somebody grabbed me in the hallway. In high school, I was in Cleveland and, you know, we're driving to Detroit to. To see the Dead, and you're coming. And we did a few trips like that, and I saw them. But when I told the screener and what I'd like to share with people broadly Is that just from listening to their albums, in particular the live ones like Europe 72 and the Skull and Roses album, is my ear kind of fell toward what Bob was doing in the background. These subtle things, these connecting chords and offbeat rhythms and just really interesting things. And it kind of taught my ear to listen to, you know, things that weren't in the front in music and pay attention to them. And from, you know, I started listening to Lesh and the interesting things he was doing. And from there, you know, I would listen to the jazz that my father would give me and listen to the different parts and later classical music. And I really credit Weir's subtle playing with teaching me to listen carefully and thoughtfully to music.
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Alison Stewart
Thank you so much for calling. Did you want to respond to that?
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David Brown
I love the subtle playing aspect of it. And, you know, I did a recent playlist of Bob's 10 best songs. It was in the New York Times, and, boy, it was really hard narrowing it down to 10. And it was another reminder to me of, you know, how many great songs he had, because, I mean, off the top of my head, I had like 25, you know, that he sang with the Dead and this. And there was one that I left off because for Space, you know, called Weather Report Suite that's on the Wake of the Flood album. And it's this sort of ambitious three part Prague folk thing. And the subtle thing brings out, it has all these different sections and his playing and Jerry's playing are, you know, are kind of woven in and out of each other. It's a really beautiful piece of music that unfortunately, I couldn't have room for the list. But that comment made me think about it.
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Alison Stewart
You got it on the air. Adam, you got 30 seconds. Go.
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Caller/Listener
All right, all right. I grew up in Michigan listening to Rush. And when I got out west to college, my friends took me up to see the Dead at Shoreline Amphitheater. And the first show I saw, Bobby played Santa Circumstance, and I knew they were a rock and roll song band. That was the first song I heard that rocked, and I've been a follower ever since. I saw 97 shows with Jerry still alive, and it's been.
- [24:58]
Progressive Insurance/Odoo Announcer
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- [25:29]
David Brown
I'm Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, our team has been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine. News you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7, our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, Climate change. Genetic engineering, Childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.