Podcast Summary: All Of It (WNYC) — "The Librarians' Doc Explores Book Bans & The 'Right To Read' In Texas"

Date: October 3, 2025
Host: Alison Stewart
Guests: Kim Snyder (Director of "The Librarians"), Martha Hickson (New Jersey Librarian featured in the film)

Overview of the Episode

This episode dives into the new documentary "The Librarians," which exposes the escalating, organized attempts to ban books from school libraries across the United States—focusing especially on Texas and Florida. The film also chronicles the personal struggles of librarians targeted for defending students’ right to read. Host Alison Stewart talks to director Kim Snyder and featured librarian Martha Hickson about the real-world impact of these campaigns, how censorship debates have morphed into heated "culture wars," and the ongoing fight to uphold intellectual freedom.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

How Book Bans Escalated: Organized Campaigns and the Kraus List

• Origins of the Film’s Focus ([03:56])

  • Kim Snyder began documenting these efforts in late 2021 after learning about Texas State Rep. Matt Kraus's "Kraus list": a roster of 850 books flagged for review/removal from schools, often focusing on race, sexuality, and LGBTQ+ issues.
  • Snyder noted a rapid, organized shift from sporadic challenges to a calculated siege targeting librarians as well as books.

  Kim Snyder [03:56]: "This very organized siege attack on our librarians was shocking to me...this was three and a half, four years ago."

• Why Texas and Florida? ([04:52])

  • The movement's scale and focus crystallized in Texas post-pandemic, partly fueled by partisan school board campaigns and national culture war issues. The playbook soon spread beyond those states.
  • Pandemic culture wars (masks, vaccines) were a precursor; then, groups like Moms for Liberty pivoted to book bans.

Threats to Librarians—and How Responses Have Changed

• Pre-2021 Challenges vs. Post-2021 Attacks ([08:43])

  • Before 2021, parental questions about books were resolved through conversation and individual accommodation, never resulting in bans.
  • Post-2021, attacks became more public, organized, and hostile, frequently bypassing established school policies or due process.

  Martha Hickson [08:43]: "Prior to 2021...in every single case, a compatible resolution was achieved. No books were banned."

  Kim Snyder [09:57]: "The amount of challenges...became explosive and exponential...no due process...hundreds of books just summarily removed."

• Personal Consequences for Librarians ([11:57]; [13:06])

  • Martha Hickson describes her life being upended after a 2021 board meeting where parents publicly accused her of being a "pornographer, pedophile, and groomer," prompting union and legal action.
  • Harassment included doxxing and surveillance, even after her retirement.

  Martha Hickson [13:06]: "A group of parents...lambaste[d] not only the library, but the librarian and called me by name, a pornographer, pedophile, and groomer of children."

  Martha Hickson [24:16]: "I was definitely in fear...strange vehicles idling...doxxing...I had to install cameras on the home that I retired to."

Book banning as Political and Cultural Weapon

• School Boards as Battlegrounds ([19:13])

  • Kim Snyder explains how partisan groups target school boards to influence curricula and book access, often through orchestrated campaigns funded by outside groups.

  Kim Snyder [19:13]: "School boards became sort of battlegrounds...people are sent in, it's organized, they read the same thing over and over. And it's just divisive."

• Funding and Political Agendas ([25:14])

  • The documentary "follows the money," tracking support from groups like Patriot Mobile (a Texas telecom that funds school board campaigns) to cultivate white Christian nationalist agendas and weaken public education.

  Kim Snyder [25:14]: "[Patriot Mobile] are a mobile cell phone company in Texas that has a PAC...put a lot of money behind flipping particular school boards...a different agenda that is white, Christian, nationalist based, that is anti public schools."

• Manipulating Narratives About Children ([23:28]; [23:36])

  • The rhetoric often frames the removal of high school-level books as defense of young children, misrepresenting reality to stir outrage and demonize librarians.

  Martha Hickson [23:36]: "They're taking books intended for young adults and high school students, positioning them as...promoted to kindergarteners...using that false frame to demonize librarians..."

The Stakes: Democracy, History, and Youth

• Democratic Principles and the Cost of Censorship ([16:42]; [17:52])

  • Both Snyder and Hickson argue that the fight is about more than reading—it's about defending democracy, accurate history, and access to diverse perspectives.

  Kim Snyder [16:42]: "The stakes are upholding...the most important tenets of democracy, of freedom of expression, freedom to read, but they're also about protecting kids..."

  Kim Snyder [17:52]: "It's everyone's story to think about censorship and how un-American it fundamentally is."

• Student Support and the Impact of Access to Books ([26:25])

  • Many former students and graduates reach out in support, attesting to the life-changing power of diverse literature and the teachers/librarians who advocated for it.

  Text from Hunterdon County Grad [26:25]: "...I'm so grateful to the high school teachers I had exposing me to different books...that shaped my perspectives on the world."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Shock of Criminalizing Librarians:

  Kim Snyder [06:19]: "It was sort of the first time, I think, that there was this idea that librarians could be criminalized for...doing their jobs."

• On Librarians as Democracy’s Defenders:

  Kim Snyder [16:42]: "The stakes are upholding...the most important tenets of democracy..."

• On Traditional Challenge Process:

  Martha Hickson [08:43]: "Ye old-fashioned thing called a conversation that's lacking in the current environment..."

• On Manipulating Concerns for Children:

  Martha Hickson [23:36]: "...using that false frame to demonize librarians and the profession as a whole..."

Listener Calls and Community Reflections

Generational Perspective ([15:00])

• Alan from Brooklyn: Shares his mother’s post-WWII fight to keep Langston Hughes on curriculum, highlighting that censorship fights are not new but require continual vigilance.

Librarian Solidarity ([21:05])

• Allison from NJ: Praises Martha’s courage, recounts her own exit from school librarianship amid culture war pressures, and describes a curriculum built around banned books.

Advice for Future Librarians ([29:29])

• Martha Hickson: "Stick with it. ... It's essential that you know your library's policies for both selection and challenges and removal. ... The librarian is probably the only person who will know those policies..."

Timestamps of Important Segments

• Book bans and the “Kraus list” explained: 03:56–07:03
• Martha recounts attack at school board meeting: 11:57–13:52
• Listener Alan on generational censorship battles: 15:00–16:36
• School boards as battlegrounds: 19:13–20:57
• Manipulation of “protecting children” narrative: 23:28–24:05
• Funding and outside influence (Patriot Mobile): 25:14–26:25
• Advice for future librarians: 29:29–29:54

Conclusion

"The Librarians" and this episode of All Of It highlight that book bans are not simply local scuffles over reading lists—they are a national, highly orchestrated push to erase certain histories, limit youth access to diverse stories, and intimidate educators. The personal testimony of Martha Hickson reveals both the intimidation faced and the resilience required to defend the right to read. The documentary makes clear: the stakes are nothing less than the survival of open, democratic society.