The Most Influential Cookbooks

Summary

All Of It: The Most Influential Cookbooks

Podcast Episode: "The Most Influential Cookbooks"
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Kurt Soller, Editor at Large, TEA, The New York Times Style Magazine
Release Date: December 2, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of All Of It, host Alison Stewart delves into the world of culinary literature with a focus on the "25 Most Influential Cookbooks" from the past century. Joined by Kurt Soller, Editor at Large of TEA, The New York Times Style Magazine, the discussion explores how these cookbooks have shaped cooking practices, influenced food culture, and connected communities through shared culinary experiences.

The Genesis of the List

Alison Stewart opens the conversation by introducing the theme centered around a recently published list by TEA, highlighting the significance of influential cookbooks over the last 100 years. Kurt Soller explains the meticulous process behind curating the list:

"This is part of our T25 series where we collect six people, we have them suggest some books, they start with longer lists and then they sort of duke it out over a three or four-hour Zoom." [02:28]

He emphasizes the diversity of perspectives that contributed to the selection, ensuring a comprehensive representation of culinary literature.

Spotlight on Iconic Cookbooks

Joy of Cooking by Irma S. Rombauer

One of the earliest and most enduring entries discussed is Joy of Cooking, authored by Irma S. Rombauer. Kurt reflects on its foundational role in American kitchens:

"The Joy of Cooking was sort of the starter book... it’s updated nine times over the years, adapting as kitchen culture changes." [04:32]

He notes the book's practical approach, equipping home cooks with essential skills and recipes that have transcended generations.

Taste of Country Cooking by Edna Lewis

Edna Lewis's Taste of Country Cooking is celebrated for its authentic portrayal of Southern cuisine. Kurt highlights its cultural significance:

"It took specialized community recipes and exposed them to a broader audience... Edna Lewis was on a stamp, codifying her cuisine as an integral part of American culinary heritage." [08:21]

The cookbook not only shares recipes but also weaves in Lewis's personal narratives, offering a glimpse into the traditions and stories behind each dish.

Mastering the Art of French Cooking by Julia Child

No discussion on influential cookbooks would be complete without mentioning Julia Child. Kurt underscores her pivotal role in demystifying French cuisine for Americans:

"Mastering the Art of French Cooking is like 201, 301, or 401 of cooking books after Joy of Cooking... she was the original food influencer." [09:12]

He praises Child's engaging writing style and her ability to make complex techniques accessible to home cooks.

Salt Fat Acid Heat by Samin Nosrat

Samin Nosrat's Salt Fat Acid Heat receives particular acclaim for its educational approach to cooking:

"It's the science of cooking... it took me from being a good cook to being an excellent cook." [11:00]

Listeners appreciate how Nosrat breaks down the fundamental elements of flavor, empowering them to experiment and elevate their culinary skills.

Listener Contributions

Throughout the episode, listeners share their cherished cookbooks, adding personal anecdotes and diverse perspectives to the discussion.

• Susan from New Jersey reminisces about her family's Thousand Recipe Chinese Cookbook:

  "When my dad passed away, I kept the original with all of his notes, and my brother and I both use it extensively to this day." [06:22]

• Beth from Brooklyn recommends Judith Jones's biography, The Editor, highlighting her influence in bringing seminal cookbooks to the public:

  "Judith Jones was responsible for bringing [Julia Child and Edna Lewis] to life... it's a really great read." [15:08]

• Jack from Astoria shares his appreciation for Mark Bittman's How to Cook Everything:

  "It's 900 pages... it just shows you how to cook everything five different ways." [19:09]

These contributions illustrate the profound personal connections individuals have with cookbooks, often linking them to cherished memories and culinary growth.

The Evolution of Cookbooks

Kurt Soller discusses how cookbooks have evolved from mere recipe collections to cultural artifacts that reflect societal changes and culinary trends.

"Cookbooks are one of those things that people have really strong feelings about... they really become this sort of photo album of a person in the kitchen." [09:46]

He elaborates on how modern cookbooks, like those from NOMA, push the boundaries of flavor and technique, while classic works lay the groundwork for contemporary culinary exploration.

Debates and Discussions

The episode also touches upon debates within the culinary community, such as the authenticity and appropriation of cuisines:

"There's always some discussion about whose food belongs to who... if you've dedicated yourself to being a student of someone else's food... then why not." [17:23]

This conversation underscores the importance of respect and dedication in the global exchange of culinary traditions.

Highlighting Lesser-Known Gems

Kurt introduces lesser-known yet influential cookbooks that have shaped specific niches within the culinary world:

• NOMA Guide to Fermentation: Showcased for its innovative approach to fermenting techniques.
• How to Cook a Wolf by M.F.K. Fisher: Celebrated for its poetic food writing and philosophy.
• Jubilee by Tanya Tipton-Martin: Recognized for its exploration of Black foodways and comforting recipes.

These selections demonstrate the breadth of what defines an influential cookbook, encompassing not only recipes but also cultural narratives and culinary philosophies.

Conclusion

As the episode draws to a close, Kurt Soller reflects on the enduring impact of cookbooks:

"Cookbooks are something you can go to again and again and still find new things and dishes you've cooked before." [24:00]

Alison Stewart thanks Kurt and the listeners for their passionate contributions, highlighting how cookbooks serve as both practical guides and vessels of cultural heritage. The episode encapsulates the profound relationship between cookbooks and the communities that embrace them, celebrating their role in shaping culinary landscapes across generations.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "The Joy of Cooking was sort of the starter book..." — Kurt Soller [02:08]
• "It took specialized community recipes and exposed them to a broader audience..." — Kurt Soller [08:21]
• "Mastering the Art of French Cooking is like 201, 301, or 401 of cooking books after Joy of Cooking..." — Kurt Soller [09:12]
• "It's the science of cooking... it took me from being a good cook to being an excellent cook." — Beth [11:00]
• "There's always some discussion about whose food belongs to who..." — Kurt Soller [17:23]
• "Cookbooks are something you can go to again and again and still find new things and dishes you've cooked before." — Kurt Soller [24:00]

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This episode of All Of It not only celebrates the cookbooks that have defined culinary practices but also underscores the personal connections and cultural significance embedded within these treasured volumes. Whether you’re a seasoned chef or a home cook, the insights shared by Kurt Soller and the enthusiastic contributions from listeners offer a rich exploration of the enduring legacy of cookbooks in our lives.

Transcript

[Kurt Soller]

Listener supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is ALL OF IT on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. It's Book Week here on All OF it. Tomorrow, we'll talk with NPR arts reporter Andrew Limbaugh about NPR's list of its best books of 2024. On Wednesday, we'll mark Truman Capote's birthday with authors Jay McInerney and John Burnham Schwartz. And that evening is our get lit with Olivet Book Club event. I'll be in conversation with author Taffy Brodesser Acker about her novel Long Island Compromise. Suzanne Vega will be there as well. It's sold out, but you can watch at home on the live Stream. Head to wnyc.org getlit for more information. Now that's in the future, but it's always a good time to talk books. So let's get this hour started. It's been four days since Thanksgiving and maybe you are sick of turkey sandwiches. So if you could use some inspiration to get back into the kitchen, look no further than the 25 most influential cookbooks from the last 100 years, a recently published list from Tea, the New York Times style magazine. The selection includes some of the most important and meaningful food writing from the last century, from Edna Lewis, Taste of Country cooking to Francis L'Pay's diet for a Small Planet. It also includes input from food experts and chefs. Joining me now to talk about it and to take your calls is TEA editor at large Kurt Soller. Nice to talk to you.

[Kurt Soller]

Yeah. Thank you for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

Listeners, call in or text about your favorite cookbook, the one that first got you in the kitchen or the one you formed an enduring relationship with. Our number is 212433, WNYC. That's 212-43396. You can call and join us on air or you can text to us or you can DM us on social media, llnyc. So, Kurt, what is the cookbook that first brought you into the kitchen?

[Kurt Soller]

Oh, that first brought me into the kitchen. You know, it was probably the Joy of Cooking. That was the book that was sort of in my family, you know, the sort of starter book. And, you know, I think it's no coincidence that that's also the book in the list that we sort of published recently that everyone was sort of like, that's sort of the step one, the 101, the thing you start with.

[Alison Stewart]

I understand this list was originally 50.

[Kurt Soller]

Yeah. So this 50 people, 50 books. Yeah. This is part of our T25 series where we sort of collect six people we have them each suggest some books, they start with longer lists and then they sort of duke it out over a three or four hour zoom. This one led by my colleague Jenny Komita, who sort of wrote and edited the piece.

[Listener]

Yeah. How did you select your five experts?

[Kurt Soller]

It's so hard. There are so many book experts. We wanted people who we felt had a really vast array of knowledge when it comes to food. So there's the chef Brooks Headley, who runs Superiority Burger here in the East Village. Sumin Nosrat herself, sort of a late sort of cookbook star. Lagay Michonne, who's a food writer for the Times and for the magazine. Dunn Davis, who herself is a cookbook editor. And then Ken Concepcion, who runs this amazing LA cookbook store called Now Serving.

[Listener]

That's a pretty great list.

[Kurt Soller]

Yeah, it was a nice. It was kind of interesting because, you know, they all came with their own perspectives. They all had different books that they sort of, you know, sort of wanted to die on the sword for, and other ones where they were like, that book is not nearly as interesting as you say it is. You know, there's no Martha Stewart, there's no Anna Garten, these sort of tent pole books, like, they didn't make the cut, which I thought was interesting.

[Listener]

Samina Sratt said, reflecting on modern food culture, she wrote, when I first wanted to be a cook in the early 2000s, people were like, why? It was a totally different cultural thing. Now the job involves being a personality and a public consumable figure, which I struggle with. How do you think the purpose of the cookbook has changed over time?

[Kurt Soller]

Oh, that's so interesting. You know, I think that books are one of those places where you can really go to lose yourself. So even for these big food personalities who may be, you know, the Alison Romans, people like that, a book is a place where you can really be alone in the kitchen or even not in the kitchen. It's a way of traveling, it's a way of learning about culture, it's a way of learning about history. So I think that books are still the place you go to, really, a teach yourself how to cook, but also, I think, really indulge in the food world in a way you don't even when you're eating.

[Listener]

Let's start with the Joy of Cooking. You mentioned it.

[Alison Stewart]

It's on the list.

[Listener]

It came out in 1931. All right, let's get in the time machine. Can you bring us back to 1931 when this book first came out? Who Wrote it.

[Kurt Soller]

Irma Rambauer wrote it. You know, the thing that I'm gonna not go back. I'm actually gonna look at the idea that this book has been updated nine times over the years. One of the things that all the panelists sort of were into is the things that sort of got lost in the fire as it's been updated. I think it was in the 70s that they decided to take out the skinning of Squirre.

[Alison Stewart]

It's a good time. Good time. Good choice.

[Kurt Soller]

The idea of this book, you know, was that you would get everything you needed to have in the modern kitchen. And back then, you know, maybe you needed to learn how to find a squirrel and skin it and cook it for your family dinner. So that, to me, was the most interesting thing. You know, most of the other books have either been re released over the years or maybe they were released once and are still influential. But that is sort of updated as the kitchen culture changes over the years, as we all know it does.

[Alison Stewart]

One of your colleagues, Emile Stenick, wrote about this book. Few would argue that any recipe in the book is the best in its category, but that's beside the point. So what's the point?

[Kurt Soller]

The point is, I think, to get people comfortable in the kitchen. You know, I think before any of us cook, maybe we learn from our parents, maybe we teach ourselves. You know, I was one of those people that went away to college, and I had to learn how to cook there because I had to figure out how to feed myself when I was tired of the dining hall. You know, you start with these simple things. You start with like roast chicken breast, or you start with learning how to make a salad. And the joy of cooking, I think, is there for that. You know, it's there to sort of teach you just even how to hold a knife, how to shop for groceries, how to, you know, just sort of get your hands wet.

[Alison Stewart]

And the font is so, so simple.

[Kurt Soller]

The joy of cooking. The joy of cooking. The red.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, let's take a call. Susan is calling in from New Jersey. Hi, Susan. Thanks for calling all of it.

[Susan]

Hello.

[Listener]

How are you doing?

[Alison Stewart]

Great.

[Susan]

So my cookbook is. It's called the Thousand Recipe.

[Alison Stewart]

You're doing okay. Keep going.

[Susan]

Great. It's called the Thousand Recipe Chinese cookbook. And first of all, I'm still trying to get over the skinning of the squirrel, but I think I can do it. So my dad developed a taste, if you will, for Chinese cooking. And we used to go to Chinatown to get ingredients, even though we lived in the suburbs. And he had this cookbook called the Thousand Recipe Chinese Cookbook that became so much a part of our lives that when he passed away, I kept the original with all of his notes in it and I bought a new copy for my brother and we both use it extensively to this day.

[Alison Stewart]

That's a great call, Susan. Thanks so much for calling in. Got a text that says Bistro Cooking by Patricia Wells, the Greens Cookbook, Extraordinary Vegetarian cuisine from the celebrated restaurant and Marcella Hazan's Essence of Classic Italian Cooking.

[Kurt Soller]

That was on our list. Oh, yeah. You know, there are many books like that. You know, Marcella Hazan sort of introduced the world to Italian cooking. There's Claudia Rodin's book, which really introduced the world to Middle Eastern cooking. There's someone like Fuchsia Dunlop who really introduced the world to Sichuan cooking. And there was debates there because she herself is not Chinese. And she really became a student of the cuisine. She spent a lot of time in China. And I think in China the book itself is very popular as well.

[Listener]

We're taking your calls. What cookbook has most influenced you? What first book you first bought that got you into the kitchen? Our number is 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. We're talking about the 25 most influential cookbooks from the last 100 years. Editor @ large, the New York Times Style magazine is here to join us. Kurt Soller. All right. Saller Haller. That's it. Okay. Smithsonian. The Smithsonian called Edna Lewis the mother of soul food and said the Virginia born chef did more than to elevate Southern food to hawk cuisine. Samin Nursat said she is the most important. First of all, what was unique about taste of country cooking?

[Kurt Soller]

I think the taste of country cooking was really important for how it took these recipes that were specialized within the community and it sort of exposed them at large. And you know, there are simple recipes in it. There's things like corn pudding, these sort of everyday recipes, which I think Dawn Davis was the one who said her mother bestowed the highest honor upon her, which was that dawn made that recipe for her mother and she added it to her Thanksgiving table, where I think she still makes it every day. But there's also elegant dishes. There's quail with the juice of white grapes. And Edna Lewis was on a stamp. And I think that just sort of codifies the fact that she really took this cuisine that was really important to the black community, really important to her own life. And now everyone is Cooking that food.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. That's interesting to me, the idea of her melding her biography and food writing into one. Into one book, actually.

[Kurt Soller]

Yeah. And it's a diary in some ways. Right. You know, we eat every day. I think of the River Cafe Cookbook, which is also on our list, which is the cookbook from the restaurant on the outskirts of London. And that is a book that tells the story of a restaurant and of two women who made that restaurant, as much as it tells you how to make a really great risotto or how to make really great spaghetti. Van Golay. And it's also a book that has, like, Edna's book, it has this sort of aesthetic. You know, you get a sense of the person through the images, through the writing, through the text, through the design, like that sort of. I think unlike novels or nonfiction books, cookbooks really become this sort of photo album of a person in the kitchen.

[Listener]

Let's talk about Julia Child. We have to talk about Julia Child. What does the food world owe to Julia Child?

[Kurt Soller]

So, of course, Mastering the Art is on this list. I think this list is sort of if Joy of cooking is 101, then mastering the art is 201, 301, or 401. You could spend your whole life cooking from those two books. You know, there's another book on the list, though, that I think is really interesting, called Cooking with Julia or Baking With Julia. Sorry.

[Listener]

By Dory Greenspan.

[Kurt Soller]

Exactly, exactly. And that book is sort of a companion to the very popular show that Julia Child was on, where Dory took. I think it's 27 recipes from 27 different chefs who'd been on Julia's show. And, you know, there's Martha Stewart wedding cake. There's things like that. And I think that just speaks to the sort of the fact that she was the original food influencer. You know, we still look back to her. We still, you know, she was a TV star, she was a book star, obviously, she's a publishing star. And, like, even her content be got other content that people sort of wanted to learn from. And also, like, just what a charming personality. Of course, she's great on the show, but even the writing itself is really beautiful to read.

[Listener]

Let's take another call. This is Beth calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Beth.

[Beth]

Hi, how are you? Thanks for taking my call.

[Listener]

Sure thing.

[Beth]

I was calling in to shout out Salt Fat Acid Heat by Samin Noserat because it, like, isn't just recipe. I mean, it is recipes. But for me, it's like it was the science of Cooking so that even when I get, like, a meal kit, I can be like, no. And change the order of how I cook things or, like, add things and make it amazing. And she took me from being, like, a good cook to being an excellent.

[Listener]

I love it. You said you're an excellent cook, by the way.

[Kurt Soller]

I know. Flex.

[Listener]

Yeah, I know.

[Beth]

Like, I'm not even afraid to say that. I'm like, it's all because it's Demi. Like, I give her full credit. My friends, I drive them crazy.

[Kurt Soller]

Yeah. I think of the first five pages of the book, or the first even. Maybe it's the first two pages where she's just talking about how to salt food. And she goes through those little tests. And I think about that every time I make dinner.

[Listener]

I got a text that says, jane Brody's Good Food Book and the Old Better Homes and Gardens Red Checkered Cookbook. Thanks so much for that text. The Complete Round the World Cookbook. Recipes gathered by Pan American world airwaves from the 84 countries they serve.

[Kurt Soller]

Wow.

[Listener]

This is from 1954 by a woman named Mayra Waldo. That's kind of interesting.

[Kurt Soller]

I have to know what's in that.

[Listener]

Okay. I hope I said this right. Matt her Jeffrey's World of the East Vegetarian Cooking.

[Kurt Soller]

Yeah. Matt Hur. Jeffrey made the list. You know, she was a Bollywood star who then became a cookbook.

[Listener]

Oh, yes, of course.

[Kurt Soller]

Yes. Legendary. You know, I use when I'm trying to cook Indian food. I was sort of. I did the whole instapot thing during the pandemic. And she has a great instapot Indian cookbook. You know, she's like one of those legends, I think, like Aficia Dunlop or like a Claudia Rodin, who took her personal cuisine and sort of made it global and really got a lot of people into the kitchen who, of course, were Indian, but also who weren't Indian and wanted to dip their toes into those cuisines.

[Alison Stewart]

This is a favorite of yours, the Moosewood Cookbook from 1974. Tell people about the Moosewood Cookbook.

[Kurt Soller]

So the Moosewood Cookbook is based off a restaurant up in Ithaca, New York, that opened in the 70s. It was really early to the sort of vegetarian sort of upstate California cuisine. You know, I first became familiar with it because I worked at a food magazine, and it had a sort of lore around it when a lot of people were getting into vegetarian cooking a decade or so ago. I was looking back at it this morning because I knew I was coming on here to sort of remind myself about it. And it's both an amazing cookbook if you want to make mushroom pasta or salads or any kind of vegetable dish. But it's also a real cultural document. It's introducing people to tofu for the first time or tahini for the first time. It refers to guacamole as Mexican avocado pate.

[Alison Stewart]

Okay.

[Kurt Soller]

Which I don't think is how someone would describe that today if they were looking for synonyms. And I think that's just speaks to sort of, you know, that's one of those things where I wish I had been at moosewood in the 70s when it first opened. It's still open. You can still go. But it's a real time capsule, I think, to show people both how food was becoming more exotic in the 70s or more sort of international in scope, but also how vegetarian cuisine has sort of grown since then.

[Listener]

All right, so we had the Moosewood River Cafe. There's also the Silver Palate Cookbook, the.

[Alison Stewart]

Zuni Cafe Cookbook on this list.

[Listener]

Were you surprised at the number of restaurants?

[Kurt Soller]

You know, it was Samin who said at one point that it would take a long time for or it would take like that. No, recent cookbooks are really on this list because it takes a while for cookbooks to become influential.

[Listener]

Oh, interesting.

[Kurt Soller]

And I think when you think about how many restaurant cookbooks there are, there aren't actually that many restaurant cookbooks on this list. You know, it's like, very few restaurants for the past 10 years, very few sort of popular contemporary restaurants. But I think over the, you know, over the last hundred years, there have been restaurants like Moosewood that really broke out, and that really sort of changed cooking forever. And I think really, you know, that's the thing where it's like, you get a taste of traveling to that restaurant, but you also learn how to make the food at home. I was surprised that there weren't actually more recent restaurant cookbooks via Crota. Excuse me.

[Listener]

What'd I say?

[Kurt Soller]

Yeah, totally. Or like, six seasons, which is Joshua McFadden's cookbook. He's a chef in Portland, Oregon. That, to me is like, when I want to cook a vegetable, that's the cookbook I look at. And I was surprised that wasn't on the list.

[Listener]

Let's talk to Liz calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Liz.

[Beth]

Hi. Can you hear me?

[Listener]

Yeah, I hear you. Great.

[Beth]

Love this segment. I just wanted to plug. It's a biography of the cookbook editor, Judith Jones. The book is called the Editor. Judith Jones actually brought Julia Child and Edna Lewis, Claudia Rodin. I don't know if you mentioned the Vegetarian Epicure, but by Anna Thomas. All these books that seem really fundamental now, Judith Jones was responsible for bringing them to life. So it's a really great read and I recommend it.

[Listener]

Thank you so much for your calls. We are talking about the 25 most influential cookbooks from the last 100 years. It is from the Tea. The Tea, the New York Times Style magazine. Guest Soller is. Excuse me. Kurt Soller is my guest. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of It.

[Alison Stewart]

You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Kurt Soller, editor at large of tea, the New York Times style magazine. We're talking about the list, the 25 most influential cookbooks from the last 100 years. It appeared in the magazine. This is funny. This text I shared with you, Kurt, says if you grew up in New England, it's the Fannie Farmer Cookbook by Marian Cunningham instead of the Joy of Cooking.

[Kurt Soller]

And if you grew up in New York, I think it's the Silver Palette Cookbook. You know what I mean?

[Alison Stewart]

There you go.

[Kurt Soller]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk to Sydney. Hi, Sydney, thanks for calling all of it.

[Sydney]

Hey, how are you doing?

[Alison Stewart]

Great.

[Sydney]

So actually my first cookbook is actually. It was a Colombian cuisine. It's actually called a Colombian cookbook. I was like 13 years old when I first started using this book. And my first recipe that I used was like, it was like an orange pudding that I did. You know, I did. I did like rice and chicken also. But the most, the most thing that actually made me get really into this type of stuff was the pastry that I made. It wasn't a pastry like more like a dessert. It was really, really good.

[Alison Stewart]

Love that. Thank you so much for calling in. Yeah, I'm going to talk to you a little bit about the globetrotting of this cookbook. Tell me all the places that we'll.

[Listener]

Visit in our 25 most influential cookbooks.

[Kurt Soller]

Oh, God. Where to start? I guess I could start with how to Cook and Eat in Chinese, which is a book from 1945 by Bui Yang Cho. That was a book that was sort of a cult classic that had all but disappeared. That's the book that actually introduced the word stir fry to the cooking lexicon of America. And it was this book that was really popular in the 1940s among a small community and then sort of changed how the world viewed Chinese cooking. It's recently, you know, for years, I think it was really hard to Find. And now that because of the Internet and because there's been renewed interest in it, it's been easier to find. But that's a book that Ken Conception said, like, you know, nine out of ten of his customers would have never heard of. And it was only recently that he sort of saw a copy himself. And he runs one of the most important cookbook stores in the country. You know, there's Diana Kennedy, who cooked Mexican food. You know, that was an interesting debate. When we get these sort of six spirited people together to talk about cookbooks, obviously there's always some discussion about, you know, whose food belongs to who, and that's an important discussion, and that's a discussion that we should continue to have. Her books, which sort of brought Mexican cuisine to the wider world. After decades of studying in Mexico, I think at the end of the day, we decided that if you've dedicated yourself to being a student of someone else's food, and if you've really taken the time to learn and to spend time in those communities and to really sort of uplift the cuisine, then why not.

[Listener]

Intention is intention.

[Kurt Soller]

Yeah. And I think intention, I think time, you know, I think if it gets to the point where even members of that own community are sort of cooking the food, if your recipes sort of pass that test, and if you're beloved as she is within Mexico, then obviously, like, that's someone that we need to include on this list.

[Listener]

Let's talk to Jack from Astoria. Hi, Jack.

[Jack]

Hi, Allison. Thanks for taking my call again. I'd like to shout out Mark Bittman's how to Cook Everything. And literally, it's. It's 900 pages. The. The indexes has every type of food. Pasta, grains, fruit, beans, everything. It has menus, quick recipes. The glossary is a couple hundred pages. It has a cocktail section, and I've been using it since 1999. My brother's a great cook. He gave it to me back then for Christmas, I think, and it's incredible. It just shows you how to cook everything five different ways.

[Alison Stewart]

Love it. Thanks so much for calling. Let's talk to Jennifer in Wanta. Hi, Jennifer.

[Beth]

Hi. So I don't have a cookbook favorite.

[Liz]

But I have a Cooking Light magazine. I was a hardcore subscriber from the late 80s through, geez, I don't know, early 2000s.

[Beth]

And I don't know if the 30.

[Liz]

Minute meal was a thing yet, but.

[Beth]

That'S what we relied on.

[Liz]

My husband and I cooked every day from that magazine.

[Alison Stewart]

Love it. Thank you so much. This is interesting. Very cool list. NOMA Guide to Fermentation. No work has pushed the envelope on making flavor through fermenting like this. These guys experimented like mad scientists in a lab. Art of Fermentation by Sandra Katz, which is on the list, is definitely the original great work. But the NOMA innovated and broke barriers like none other.

[Kurt Soller]

Yeah, I think that's true. I mean, I would say that the NOMA book would not have existed without Sanders book. You know, fermentation is obviously all the rage in cooking internationally right now, and I own that NOMA book, and it's a great book. But if you go back and look at Sanders book, he really laid a lot of the groundwork, I think, for, you know, everything that we're sort of cooking and eating today.

[Alison Stewart]

We're getting so many calls and so many texts about the Diet for a.

[Listener]

Small Planet by Francis Maurlepay from 1971. First of all, what did this.

[Alison Stewart]

What did this book do when it first landed?

[Kurt Soller]

You know, I think it sort of connected the culture of eating with the sort of imperative we all have to sort of take care of the planet. You know, obviously, that goes from farming to ingredients to the sort of food we put in our body and the food we sell to each other. And I think it's one of those books, you know, it was not something that before this list was really on my radar much. And that's part of the great thing about doing these lists is that things come up that either procedure, generation, or that sort of are cult favorites among people. But I'm really heartened to hear that so many people are calling about it and writing in about it.

[Listener]

And her son loves wnyc, found that out.

[Kurt Soller]

That's great.

[Listener]

Also Magnolia Cookbook, their classic cupcake recipe, exclamation point.

[Kurt Soller]

Yep.

[Listener]

Let's talk. Oh, this is funny. I just took a look at my cookbooks and discovered my Joy of Cooking, 1975 edition, still has skinning squirrel, and was pleased to have one of the many ones you're talking about. That is really, really funny. We had another list, how to Cook a Wolf by JFK Fisher.

[Kurt Soller]

Yeah.

[Listener]

From 1942.

[Kurt Soller]

Yeah. I mean, that's one of those books that's really about the writing itself. You know, I think if you ask chefs, if you ask food writers, MFK is one of those writers that made not only, like, a huge impact when that book came out, but also made a lot of people want to become food writers themselves. Lagaya Michonne, who is one of our panelists, who I Think is one of the world's best food writers. She works at the Times. She is often talking about the poetry of that writing and sort of just the description of it and the sort of strange philosophy of it. You know, when you really get into it, food is one of those things that we all have to think about a lot because we all eat every day. And I think MFK Fisher just sort of really created the craft of food writing as we know it today.

[Listener]

Let's talk to Liz from Brooklyn. Hi, Liz. Thanks for calling all of it.

[Liz]

Hi. I'm so happy to be on this show. It's my favorite show ever.

[Listener]

I love that. Thanks. Thanks. What are you. What are you cooking from? Where did you want to cook from?

[Liz]

Well, first of all, all the cookbooks. This is such a wonderful list. And I chose Sunday Suppers at Luke by Suzanne Goyne. And it was given to me as a gift by one of my best friends who happens to be an incredible food writer, Christine Mulkey. So Christine's contributed to a bunch of cookbooks, and every year for my birthday, I ask her to pick her favorites. And she gave me that one when it first came out, and I'm still cooking from it. I just adore that cookbook.

[Listener]

Thank you so much for the call as we wrap up. Kurt, can you think of a book that was influential for you which doesn't appear on the list? Just one that you like to talk about?

[Kurt Soller]

I already gave away Six Seasons. Maybe I'll talk about a book that is on the list. That's Jubilee by Tanya Tipton Martin. It's another book that, you know, I sort of came to it because there was a time when I think it came out in 2000, sometime in the 2000s. And the Times cooking section actually published some of those recipes. It's another book that's great on sort of black food ways. And I love. There's a recipe in it that's this pork chop with this lemon caper sauce. Ooh, you mean chill Every. And you can find it on the Times website. I'm not. This is like, just a coincidence. But, you know, I. Every time around this year, that's what I want. That sort of, you know, time between Thanksgiving and Christmas when you're at home and you just want something relaxing and comforting. That's sort of what I turn to. And I think that's part of the great thing about cookbooks is you can go to them again and again and still find sort of new things and dishes you've cooked before.

[Alison Stewart]

Was there anything about the list. I didn't ask you that. You wanted to tell us?

[Kurt Soller]

No, I think we could. I mean, we always say this with these lists. We could make this list again with a different group of people and. Or even with the same group of people, and it would wrap up completely differently. You know, cookbooks are one of those things that people have really strong feelings about, as I think the callers have demonstrated. And it's always great to hear sort of people get really passionate about that.

[Alison Stewart]

Thanks to everybody who called in and thanks to Kurt Saller, editor at large at T, the New York Times style magazine. We're talking about the 25 most influential cookbooks from the last 100 years. Thanks for coming to the studio.

[Kurt Soller]

Sure. Thanks for having me. If you know your party's Extension, press or say 1. To leave a message in our company mailbox, press or say 2. Spoiler alert. It will be full representative. Would you speak to your mother in that tone?

[Listener]

Speak to a real human being. You shouldn't need to shout into the void to get your health insurance questions answered. Pacific Source Health Plans. This is a real person. How can I help you?

[Kurt Soller]

Human service, not automated phone trees. Pacific Source health plans.

[Listener]

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