Podcast Summary: All Of It – "The Queens Jazz Trail's New Digital Map"

Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Guests: Ben Young (Jazz Historian & Scholar), Clyde Bullard (Flushing Town Hall Jazz Producer)
Date: September 17, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode explores the rich, often-overlooked history of jazz in Queens, New York, marking the release of a new interactive digital map of the Queens Jazz Trail. Host Alison Stewart is joined by jazz historian Ben Young and Flushing Town Hall's jazz producer Clyde Bullard to discuss the borough's deep connections to legendary jazz musicians, the origins and impact of the Jazz Trail Map, and the powerful communities these artists helped build.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Legendary Jazz Community of Queens

• Neighborhoods of Icons: Alison Stewart introduces the borough as the home of legends including Fats Waller, Count Basie, Lena Horne, John Coltrane, Dizzy Gillespie, Louis Armstrong, Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, and Charles Mingus.

  • “Queens was the stomping ground for the world's most legendary names in jazz.” (01:44)

• Desegregation & Legacy: Many jazz musicians were among the first Black residents in predominantly white neighborhoods in Queens, contributing to desegregation during the 1930s–1960s.

  • “Many helped to desegregate some of the white neighborhoods in the borough.” (01:44)

2. The Origins and Purpose of the Jazz Trail Map

• History of the Map: The Queens Jazz Trail Map was first created in 1998 by Flushing Town Hall and has been recently updated as an interactive digital project for self-guided tours and exploration.

  • “Back in 1998, Flushing Town Hall designed and published a map marking many of the historic jazz sites in Queens... now there's a fully interact digital version.” (01:44–02:44)

• First Jazz Residents: Clarence Williams and Eva Taylor’s home purchase in 1923 was pivotal, sparking the migration of musicians to Queens for its proximity to the New York scene and its rural, idyllic character.

  • “It all began supposedly in 1923 with Clarence Williams and his wife, Eva Taylor... And he knew Louis Armstrong. Louis Armstrong came to visit him and he really like the Queen's feeling because it was very rural.” (03:13 – Clyde Bullard)

Notable Quote:

“Never again should a history book be written about jazz that doesn't include the importance of Queens, because Queens is the one borough in the world that has the most amount of iconic jazz artists that once lived there.”
— Clyde Bullard (Nat Hentoff quote), (05:13)

3. Queens: A Place to Live, Not Just Perform

• Why Not Recognized Earlier: Ben Young notes that Queens was mainly a “bedroom community” for musicians who worked in Manhattan but chose to live and raise families in a more suburban part of the city.

  • “A lot of these cats… would go to work in Manhattan... and then as the sun is coming up, you’re going back to where you crash.” (04:29 – Ben Young)

• Magnetism of Community: The arrival of star musicians like Louis Armstrong increased Queens’ draw for others, creating a hub of creativity and camaraderie rather than performance venues.

  • “With the tumble of James P. Johnson coming out… plus Louis Armstrong moving there in the 40s meant… now you want to be there to rub elbows with people.” (06:18 – Ben Young)

4. Black Musicians and Queens: Breaking Barriers

• Community Dynamics: Many jazz musicians were celebrities and could afford the homes, which sometimes led neighbors to be more accepting (“enamored… to be living near them or adjacent to them”).
  • “I never heard of many problems of any racism or anything happening in Queens… they were more than just the average African American… they were celebrities.” (08:32 – Clyde Bullard)

5. The Jazz Trail Map as Education and Outreach

• Purpose: The original map served to document and publicize Queens’ jazz legacy. Its expanded tours attracted an international audience, with physical tours sometimes culminating in visits to musicians’ homes, like that of famed bassist Milt Hinton.
  • “The map was a way to document and edify that fact... [The tours] were promoted... all over the world.” (09:24 – Clyde Bullard)
  • “Milt Hinton and Mona Hinton always let the entire tour come into their home. He would graciously greet everyone, and he had enough trinkets and buttons that he would give everybody.” (10:50 – Clyde Bullard)

6. Musical Legacies and Neighborhood Lore

• Spotlight on “Palo Alto”: Ben Young details the Queens roots of Lenny Tristano, whose address inspired Lee Konitz’s song “Palo Alto.”

  • “The piano player Lenny Tristano... taught a whole lot of people... He took up a residence in one of the Palo Altos. That's in Hollis. And... Palo Alto is obviously the name of a place in California up near San Francisco. But when Lee Konitz recorded the tune... he's referring to that little spot in Hollis.” (12:01 – Ben Young)

• Count Basie’s Pool Parties: Neighborhood lore includes stories of legendary parties hosted by Count Basie, open to local children, reflecting the communal spirit and accessibility of these jazz legends.

  • “He was very gracious. He would let the children come in, he and his wife Catherine, they would let them swim there. And he was well loved in the block, you know.” (14:28 – Clyde Bullard)

Notable Quote:

“The area was just full of great musicians who, at that time, we didn’t know what indelible marks in history they would leave.”
— Clyde Bullard (14:43)

7. Changing Jazz Landscape (1930s – 1960s)

• Evolution Over Decades: Ben Young observes that initial “pioneers” paved the way for more musicians as the scene grew. By the 1960s, career stability (teaching, steady gigs) enabled more jazz musicians to set down roots in Queens, leading to a community “snowballing.”
  • “You see in the 60s a very robust uptick. In other words, the thing that started as a skeleton in the 30s was just snowballing and it’s really underway by the 1960s.” (19:07 – Ben Young)

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “Queens was the stomping ground for the world's most legendary names in jazz.” — Alison Stewart (01:44)
• “Never again should a history book be written about jazz that doesn't include the importance of Queens…” — Clyde Bullard quoting Nat Hentoff (05:13)
• “The map was a way to document and edify that fact.” — Clyde Bullard (09:24)
• “He would graciously greet everyone, and he had enough trinkets and buttons that he would give everybody… [Milt Hinton] was this wonderful, wonderful man...” — Clyde Bullard (10:50)
• “The area was just full of great musicians who, at that time, we didn’t know what indelible marks in history they would leave.” — Clyde Bullard (14:43)
• “You can find jazz all over the world, where you just think 50, 60 years ago, if you were caught playing jazz or practicing jazz in certain universities, you could almost be expelled.” — Clyde Bullard (15:28)

Important Timestamps

• 01:44: Start of content; introduction to the jazz legacy of Queens
• 03:13: Clyde Bullard explains the origins of the Jazz Trail and Clarence Williams
• 05:13: Importance of Queens in jazz history (Nat Hentoff quote via Clyde)
• 06:18: Ben Young on the “magnetism” of the jazz community
• 08:32: Clyde Bullard on Black musicians as high-profile residents
• 09:24: Purpose and evolution of the Jazz Trail Map and tours
• 12:01: Ben Young describes Lenny Tristano's influence and “Palo Alto”
• 14:28: Count Basie's pool parties and neighborhood camaraderie
• 19:07: Ben Young describes the growth of the jazz community in Queens through the 1960s

Episode Conclusion

The new interactive Queens Jazz Trail Map serves as both a celebration of, and a resource for, exploring the borough’s pivotal place in jazz history. The stories recounted illuminate how homes, streets, and everyday neighborhoods became the backdrop for a creative revolution. With community activities like Flushing Town Hall’s jazz jams, host Alison Stewart and her guests encourage listeners to engage with this living heritage.

Find the new online version of the Queens Jazz Trail Map to discover more about the borough’s indelible mark on American music.