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- [00:08]
A
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Happy Christmas Eve Eve. We are taking tomorrow off so that team, all of it can catch a breath and celebrate. But you should keep your radio on because you will be hearing some of our best music and conversations from 2025. We've got live performances from the War and Treaty and lakeisha Benjamin as well as conversations with the Doobie Brothers as well as Steve Martin and Alison Brown. Yes, that Steve Martin. That will be happening tomorrow. Right now, let's get this hour started with a New York City holiday icon. This year marks the hundredth anniversary of the Rockettes being formed. Originally based in St. Louis, they relocated to their current home of Radio City Music hall in 1932 and were renamed the Rockettes. Since their inception, they have been known for their athleticism, precision and grand stage shows, including the Christmas Spectacular, which is a New York City holiday tradition. It's a show that is planned a year in advance and requires an intense six week rehearsal schedule of six hours a day, six days a week. Julie Branham is the director and choreographer of the holiday spectacular since 2014 and a former Rockette herself. And she is here with us today.
- [01:34]
B
Welcome to all of it. Thank you so much, listeners.
- [01:37]
A
We want to hear about your Rockette story. Is it a family tradition of yours? What are some of your favorite memories about going to the Christmas Spectacular? What's your favorite number or, or were you ever a Rockette? Our Phone lines are open. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. So, Julie, before you were the boss, you yourself were a Rockette, but you grew up in Iowa. What was your journey to becoming a Rockette?
- [02:06]
B
Well, I did grow up in Iowa. I always knew I wanted to be a dancer and I was really training to be a ballet dancer back then. But I did see the Rockettes on the Macy's Day Parade. So that was my first time seeing them and going, oh, that's interesting. 36 women all dancing together. Interesting. And I came to New York in 1979 for the first time to study ballet. And fresh off the plane from Iowa, with the director of the ballet company, they took us to Radio City Music Hall. So it was a little foreshadowing of what was to become of my life. But that was 10 years down the road. So I literally took classes. I went back to Radio City several times to see Ginger Rogers was in a show there. I got to see her dance, you know, and learn more about Radio City. So as I grew up taller, tall. For a ballet dancer in pointe shoes, you know, I was, like, over six feet tall. So finding partners to partner. I didn't have great feet. I wasn't. You know, I knew things there were better suited people to do that. But I did like doing jazz, tap and ballet and other things. So I auditioned for the Rockettes, and lo and behold, in 1988, I was lucky enough and fortunate enough to get that job.
- [03:18]
A
What was your favorite part about being a Rockette?
- [03:21]
B
You know, I love being out on that stage because it is beautiful. To look at that iconic view is really something. But I think what keeps me there and what has kept me there for the last 38 years are the people. And it's the people I meet. The people, the crew, the people I work with. The Rockettes. My heart. They are my heart. You know, I get to work with them every day. They keep me young. They keep me going. I love the dancers. I love the singers. I love the whole camaraderie of putting this joyous show together.
- [03:50]
A
It must be so fun to be at a party with you and then somebody says, oh, hey, what do you do for a living? I work with the Rockettes.
- [03:59]
B
Well, you know, everybody knows who the Rockettes are. You know, it's like. It's so funny. Even when I visit back in Iowa and people, my mom is the first one to say, oh, she's a Radio City rockette. I'm like, 30 years ago mom. Yes, so. But something she is very proud of, as I am as well. But it's like, it's interesting because people really do relate to the Rockettes. I think they have been around for a long time and stood for lots of empowered women moving forward, working together. I see this sign that you have, and this is the first thing I said to people when I took over in New York is we're going to work hard and we're going to be nice. And I think that's part of the impact and why the Rockettes work so well is because they work so well together, and they want to work hard to be great together. And I love instilling that in them and working hard and creating the magic of the Christmas spectacular.
- [04:50]
A
I was watching an interview with you, and you threw out all these names. I was like, oh, there's so many different categories of being a Rockette. Or in the Rockette organization, there was the dancer, the swing, the captain. Your role.
- [05:01]
B
What does each do well? So I'll start with the swing. So a swing in the show is somebody that's going to cover somebody that's either out sick, has an injury, has a personal day. So they have to learn all 36 parts. They are responsible. And I will tell you, when I was given the job as Rockette, I was given the job as swing. So I came in brand new and I had to learn everything. It served me really well. And I'm so thankful I had that opportunity because it makes you look at the show as a whole instead of just the one spot you're in. So a swing is really so important. They have to be able to jump into any spot at any time and remain calm, cool, collected, and do all the right moves. The dance captain, who is also a swing in the show, but also teaches the show and keeps the show clean, Assistant dance captain helps. The dance captain also assists in teaching the show, keeps the show clean, and also is a swing. So, yeah, there are a lot of different categories and growth that can be had being a Rockette.
- [06:01]
A
Well, what qualities do you need to be a good Rockette?
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B
Well, I think first and foremost, you have to love to dance, because I love to see that in people. I also love to see smart dancers, meaning that they are listening to what's being said at the front of the room and they can emulate that and match that line because so much of Rockette's work is matching one another. And how can we find the common ground that we can all make that same line, even though we are different shapes and different sizes and different heights and all those things so that that can all come together to make one?
- [06:37]
A
I'm talking to Julie Branham, director and choreographer of the Rockettes. The Rockettes are celebrating their 100th birthday this year. Let's take some calls. Joe is calling in from Bradley Beach. Hi, Joe, thanks for calling, all of it. You're on the air.
- [06:51]
C
Hi. Thank you for taking my call. So here's my memory, and you know what? It's a fond memory because I was 12 years old or 11 years old, my mom took us out of school, picked us up early to go into the city to see the tree. And it was a blast because she drove in back then. She was a. She's still alive, 98 years old, and used to take us periodically after that. But back then, the format was a movie they used to show after the Rockettes and the band did their thing. And I'll never forget, it was such an exciting time because not every kid got got a chance to see the Rockettes live. And I'm 72, so that. That was 60 years ago.
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A
Thanks for sharing your memory. Really appreciate it. Joe, let's talk to Leslie, who's calling in from Florida. Hi, Leslie, thank you so much for calling all of it. You're on the air.
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C
Thank you, Allison. I love listening to you and it's so fun when I'm down here to listen to you because I am a born and raised New Yorker, but not there anymore. But my mother, who was born in Queens, was a Broadway dancer and her first job in New York, I guess was as a Rockette when she was about, I think 21, 22. I wish my sister was on the call with us here, but it was very, very cool. And I actually studied ballet in the city growing up at like School of American Ballet and that sort of thing. All my mom's friends were dancers and actually shout out to my sister Karen, who just did a documentary about my mom and she had pictures of her I as a Rockette and background on her. But it was just very cool. When we were growing up, I got to go backstage at Radio City, got taken on a tour, got to go on the stage that went up and down and all over the place backstage and got all the collateral material, photos and things from whoever, I guess the. Not the musical director, I guess the director back, the stage manager, whoever it was, took me all over the place and it was awesomely cool amongst all our other growing up experiences with Broadway. But that was her first real job.
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A
You gotta get to tell her her name. Let's give her a shout out. Your mom.
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C
Well, she is long gone, but her stage name back then was Maxine Burke. D E R K E. Love it.
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A
Maxine Burke in her memory. Thank you so much for calling in. When you were performing as a Rockette, what was your favorite thing to perform?
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B
Boy, that's hard. It changed all the time. You know, I think for me, the Sisterhood of Rockettes comes together with Parade of the Wooden Soldier. So I do love doing. I did love performing that number because it is a traditional number that Russell Markert, our founder, choreographed. Vincent Minnelli did the costumes. So there's. It's just a lot of classic history there. I did always love doing Parade of the Wooden Soldiers.
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A
When did you decide to become the director and the choreographer?
- [10:01]
B
Well, it's interesting. We had a show that toured, a Christmas show that toured starting in 1994. And I was asked if I would like to be a dance captain, a swing and assistant choreographer on that. And I decided that I would very much like to do that to step Even though I would still be in the line, I was taking on some new responsibility. And my parents lived in Iowa. My dad was a quadriplegic and was not able to travel to New York. So I did it because I knew they could drive from Iowa to Branson, Missouri, pretty easily. So I did it for a lot of different reasons. And it was really. It changed the trajectory of my life by accepting that job. Because doing that, I then ended up directing shows on the road starting in 1998 and then in 2014. And I continued to direct shows until 2013. And then in 2014, I was offered this show in New York.
- [10:49]
A
Let's take a call. This is George, who's calling in from Manhattan. Hi, George. Thanks for taking the time to call, all of it.
- [10:57]
C
Thank you, Alison. I'm a board member of the Art Deco Society of New York. And Radio City is, of course, one of our. Rockefeller center are, of course, among our greatest Art Deco landmarks. I understood that when in the 60s or 70s, the Rockefeller center was threatened to become the New York Stock Exchange or a shopping mall or just demolished and it was a Rockette and the dance troupe or that that actually demonstrated and danced on the steps of City hall. And I'd love to. To know if that's true, to save it and, and. And more about that. If you know about Rockette saving this great Deco landmark.
- [11:41]
B
Julie, do you know that is absolutely true. In the 70s, they were going to demolish that gorgeous building, which I just can't even imagine because it is so stunning. But the Rockettes, the cat, really, the cast and crew came together to save that building, and they did save it. And it is now a landma. We are so lucky that those women stuck together and said, do not tear down our home. It's gorgeous. And there's so much to see here. So very fortunate.
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A
Let's talk to Zoe from Long Island City. Hey, Zoe, thanks for calling all of it.
- [12:12]
C
Hi. I was a milliner to the Rockettes in the late 70s, and I was there during the strike. And it was actually not a Rockette, but Rosalie Novolino, who was one of the dancers. Remember, they used to have like a ballet troupe.
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B
Yes.
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C
And she was just, you know, horrified that they were talking about tearing down the building. And so her brother, Nino Novolino, has costume armor, and he loaned the girls and the Rockettes a bunch of armor. You know, it's actually vacuum form armor. And they actually walked along the lines of people waiting to get in, handing out pamphlets. I mean, it was amazing. It was an amazing Time to be there. And I just loved the girls. They were so professional, so lovely to work with. And we just had a blast working there. We had a very tiny department. I think we were the end of a hall that got closed off, but we made 36 of everything.
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B
I bet you did. Yes.
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A
Zoe, thank you so much for calling in. This text says Adrian Thorne, the current senior minister at Riverside Church, is a proud former Rockette. She's great. Thanks for sending us that text. Matthew from Harlem has a question. Hi, Matthew, you are on with Julie Branham.
- [13:32]
C
Hi there. So when I was 500 years ago, the only time that I ever visited New York City before I moved here after college, one of my most indelible memories was touring during the backstage tour of Radio City. And I remember going in the room where the Rockets audition and that there were two marks on the door and you had to be between those two marks in order to, like, the height, in order to walk. Walk through the door and audition. Is that still the case?
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B
It is not the case anymore. Now we look for people that are 18 years of age and are terrific dancers. That is the criteria.
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A
Yeah. Because the Rockettes, you know, they have a long history. They didn't have a black dancer until 1987, when Jennifer Jones joined. How has it been to see the dancers? So many different types of dancers represented now.
- [14:20]
B
I love it. I love that. I feel like the line of Rockettes represents the city and really the world. And that's what we've always wanted it to be. So I think our precision comes from not looking the same, but our precision comes from the dancing and how we clean the dancing and how we make the dancers look. And that's where the precision lies. It doesn't. Everyone is not the same height, they're not the same size, they're not the same color. So it's really wonderful to see that come together and come together so beautifully on the great stage at Radio City.
- [14:51]
A
Let's talk about that precision. I understand you start planning the Christmas spectacular there a year in advance is.
- [14:57]
B
That I had meetings yesterday. And actually, when I watch now, I look and I'm constantly taking notes of how could I make that better? How could that scene move a little quicker? Could I change some music? Should I add some lyrics to this? Little things to keep the show fresh, updated, moving forward? Because I think in today's society, our attention span maybe isn't as long as it used to be. And so I want to make sure that we don't have any time that feels a little Slow. I want to keep the show moving.
- [15:23]
A
What is the production schedule like for you?
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B
Well, you know, we usually have auditions in April, the first round. There's usually another round in August. And I'm always casting, I'm always trying to create. There are a lot of different people that decide what's going to happen in the show. I make my once known, but there are a lot of wants in the show. So it's trying to do what's best for the show and how to keep that moving forward.
- [15:48]
A
When do you get to the six week intensive training program?
- [15:52]
B
Well, that, you know, we have a new dancer development.
- [15:55]
C
Oh, interesting.
- [15:56]
B
Which we bring in people to make it more inclusive for everybody. Maybe dancers that wouldn't be able to afford to come to New York or afford dance classes. We fly them to New York, we house them, we bring them in from nine in the morning till six at night. And we take ballet, tap, jazz. We teach them choreography, we teach them how to be Rockettes and what it's like, what a grueling day is like there. We also give them shoes. Which shoes to a dancer is a gift. Right? That's what it's our livelihood there on our feet. So are those Laduca shoes? They are. I mean, it's fancy, right? It's really nice. And they get tap and character shoes and boots and all the tools they need. So we try to supply all of this so that we have included everybody if this is something they'd like to do. And it's good for them to see because Rockette work isn't for everybody. Because we do ask you to be like, if I tell you to turn your head a certain way, that's the way you have to do it every single time. It's the consistency factor. So some people say, you know what, I learned so much, but it's not for me. And other people say, I'm going to audition. I really liked it. And they really get into the detail and knowing exactly what to do every single day. Count of every number.
- [17:05]
A
My guest is Julie Branham, the director and choreographer of the Rockettes. The Rockettes are celebrating their 100th birthday. Let's talk to Sawyer in Williamsburg. Hi, Sawyer. Thanks for calling in.
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C
Hi. I was actually just in the car with my dad and we just tuned into wnyc, which we love so much. And I heard you, Julie, speaking on the radio, and I said, no way. That's my director. I was actually in the cast of the show in 2015. I was a Patrick with my younger brother Avy. I was just overjoyed to hear you through.
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A
Yeah.
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C
So it's just. I just wanted to talk about how amazing the show was for me, and just to watch the Rockettes and watch you direct them and watch their work ethic, it was just so inspiring for me as a young actor. And I think it's important that young kids see the show and are just inspired by the magic that you've bestowed to all of these amazing New Yorkers.
- [17:53]
B
Wow. That was amazing. Sawyer, so nice to hear your voice. And you're all grown up.
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A
I know.
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C
I'm all grown up now.
- [18:00]
A
Thanks for calling in. I originally said in the intro that the Rockettes got started in St. Louis. How did they end up in New York?
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B
Well, I think, you know, they got a call to go to the Roxy Theater, and they were there, called the Roxyettes originally. And then in 1932, when the theater opened, they moved to Radio City and became, once and for all, the Radio City Rockettes.
- [18:23]
A
This said, I studied dance with a former rockette in the 50s and 60s who had a dance school in Laurelton, Queens. Her name was Rosalind Schoenfeld, and I learned ballet, tap and toe. This other text says I knew two Rockettes. So talented. Terry Spano and Susie Kingsland. Both gone and truly missed. Let's talk to Karen on line one. Hi, Karen, thanks for calling all of it.
- [18:46]
C
Hi there. I'm calling in because I just want to tell a short story about my mom who was a rockette at age 17. It was her first professional gig and she went in as a replacement dancer during the Christmas season, I think, oh, about 1945, thereabouts. And the best story she told me about that time is that she had to pull, like, double duty and appear in the Nativity show, part of the show. And her job was to walk a sheep across the stage six times a day.
- [19:21]
A
Fabulous story, Karen. Thanks for calling Tom and Pelham. Hi, Tom. You have a Rockette in your family?
- [19:27]
C
My mother in law was a Rockette and I'm standing right now looking at a photo of her on the wall from that iconic Life magazine feature. That was done, and years later, I was walking by Rockefeller center, the doors were open and they were rolling out carts of wood torn up from replacing the stage. And I thought my mother in law danced on that. And I asked him if I could have some. They said, take all you want. And this was the early days of the Internet. But I managed to find a wood carver who would carve it into a statue of the, you know, the iconic Wooden soldier. So I sent him pictures of my mother in law and of the costume. And it arrives and it's beautifully painted and we wrap it up. The one problem was that this guy's specialty was sort of carving craggy mane lobster fishermen. And when my mother in law opens it, her face lights up and then she looks at the face of this bracket, which looks pretty much like a craggy mane. Fisher.
- [20:30]
A
That is such a good story, Tom. Thank you so much for calling in. You know, there's a line, and I'm sure you've heard it, once a Rockette, always a Rockette. What does that mean to you?
- [20:39]
B
Well, it's true. I think you've formed such a sisterhood with these people. I have grown up. We grew up. You grow up together and you spend the holidays with them. You actually spend more time with your Rockette sisters than you do your own family. And, you know, you'll go their weddings, you'll have kids together, you do life together. So it's really an incredible journey that Radio City takes us all on.
- [20:59]
A
How is the company going to celebrate the centennial this year?
- [21:02]
B
Well, we've had a lot of activations throughout the theater that are really, really fun to walk around and see all of them. You know, there are nods to the 100th anniversary, and I think not only through our video wall, but Santa has some nice lines to say about the Rockettes as well. But I think just by we're celebrating by showing them the show off and showing the Rockettes off at their very best. So I think that's the best celebration is watching them dance.
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A
Let's talk to Joyce in Piscataway. Hi, Joyce. Thanks for calling all of it.
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C
How are you doing? Well, good. Alison, I love your show. Julie, you probably don't remember me, but I was a tour guide for 18 years from 2000 to 20. And I love Radio City, love the Rockettes. And even though during the Christmas season when we do tours, I'd see them every day walking around, but I would see them as a guest three times every Christmas season. And I always brought someone with me who never saw the show before.
- [22:07]
B
That's so fun. And I have to say, I love Radio City, too. And I love watching the show with somebody that's never seen the show before. It's magical.
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A
What advice would you give to someone who dreams of becoming a Rockette?
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B
I say work hard, take all the classes, soak it all in, and keep going after that dream.
- [22:27]
A
Julie Branham is the director and choreographer of the Rockettes. We got two of the ladies outside. We're excited to talk to them. Thank you so much for coming in.
- [22:35]
B
Thank you. Pleasure. I'm Ira Flato, host of Science Friday.
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C
For over 30 years, our team has.
- [22:43]
A
Been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine. News you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7, our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, climate change, genetic engineering, childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.