Podcast Summary: All Of It – "The Science of Motivating Young People"

Host: Koosha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Dr. David Yeager, Professor of Psychology, University of Texas at Austin, Author of 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People
Date: August 9, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the science of what motivates young people and explores how adults—parents, teachers, mentors—can effectively support and guide youth through the crucial developmental ages of 10 to 25. Drawing on his research and new book, Dr. David Yeager discusses why traditional adult approaches often miss the mark, the importance of status and respect in adolescents' lives, and the mentor mindset that fosters growth, agency, and authentic motivation. Callers share their experiences, and the conversation is rich with practical strategies and keen psychological insights.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Focus on Motivation?

• [04:19] Dr. Yeager explains that his interest in motivation stems from his time as a middle school teacher, where he observed that logical lesson plans often failed to engage students.
  • Quote:
    "I left the classroom ultimately to do research on what helps young people get engaged. That one problem has driven me for 15 years..." — David Yeager [04:19]
• His research aims to offer practical, evidence-based advice for adults who want young people to actually listen and grow.

2. Adolescent Social Awakening and Status

• [05:33] Puberty ushers in a "social awakening"; adolescents are acutely sensitive to their social standing, pride, and humiliation.
  • Quote:
    "The feeling of pride never feels as good as it does during puberty, and the feeling of humiliation never feels as bad." — David Yeager [05:38]
• Society, long wary of the "teen brain," needs to shift from fearing adolescent irrationality to understanding and harnessing these developmental priorities.
  • Yeager argues that, instead of seeing adolescent behavior as problematic, adults should attend to youths' needs for respect and contribution.

3. Generational Perceptions and the 'Moral Decline' Fallacy

• [07:03] Yeager references studies showing that every generation believes the next is less moral—a historical cycle with little scientific basis.
  • Quote:
    "Every generation thinks the next generation has lost their moral compass... Adults were like them." — David Yeager [07:06]
• He encourages adults to remember their own adolescent experiences and see continuity, not crisis, in youth behavior.

4. Practical Wisdom from the Classroom

• [08:30] Dr. Yeager stresses that much advice for parents and teachers isn't grounded in reality. His book distills the real practices of outstanding mentors and educators, rather than offering unrealistic "just say no" solutions.
  • Quote:
    "About half of what happens is just completely ridiculous... you just can't have this perfect version of the world." — David Yeager [08:35]

5. Respect and Agency as Core Needs

• [12:15] Respect is more than social media clout; it's recognition as a full person with contributions to make. Adolescents crave real agency—making their own decisions, even if they're still learning.
  • Quote:
    "...being treated like a full human who has something to contribute to society or culture or the group." — David Yeager [12:16]
• Studies consistently find a four-year gap between when youth and adults believe young people are ready for autonomy.
  • Quote:
    "For a lot of things it's like a four-year difference." — David Yeager [14:06]
• Adults often underestimate adolescent competence, leading to frustration and disengagement.

6. The Mentor Mindset vs. Enforcers and Protectors

• [18:15] Yeager describes three adult approaches:
  • Mentor: Holds high standards and offers strong support, believing in the young person's potential.
  • Enforcer: High standards, low support; controlling, often disrespectful.
  • Protector: Low standards, high support; well-meaning but signals incompetence.
  • Quote:
    "The mentor fundamentally comes from the idea that young people can accomplish important things... if they have the right support." — David Yeager [19:19]
• The mentor approach is most effective, perceived as respectful, and best equips youth for future challenges.

7. Real Life Examples of Effective Mentorship

• [20:26] Yeager recounts following an outstanding physics teacher, Sergio Estrada, who prompts students toward self-discovery with persistent questioning instead of providing answers.
  • Quote:
    "He goes down until he figures out the part they do have right and then builds back up with questions." — David Yeager [20:36]
• Student outcomes demonstrate the power of this 'mentor' support—struggling students achieve remarkable results.

8. Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic Motivation

• [23:41] A caller asks if extrinsic rewards (like tokens or tickets) foster genuine motivation.
  • Yeager says extrinsic rewards can help when starting new behaviors, but lasting engagement stems from internal rewards like pride and personal growth.
  • Quote:
    "...the acclaim and pride you get from doing something impressive in the eyes of someone who's hard to impress...that's all you need." — David Yeager [25:28]
  • Token economies can recognize effort, but shouldn't undermine intrinsic motivation for already-valued behaviors.

9. Navigating Cultural Differences in Mentorship

• [26:15] A young listener describes hesitancy asking parents for advice due to cultural disconnect.
  • Yeager affirms this process as part of maturity—youths selectively seek input based on perceived expertise, a skill that deepens over life.
  • Quote:
    "What it means to be an adult is to differentiate where you look for advice." — David Yeager [28:05]
• He encourages parents to engage in open, respectful discussions, not prescriptive instructions.

Notable Listener Contributions & Quotes

• Ari from Brooklyn [10:31]: Credits his motivation and wise decision-making to the agency given by his parents.
  • Quote:
    "Allowing kids to make decisions on their own versus telling them what to do each step of the way allows them to have agency..." — Ari [10:33]
• Lisa from Manhattan [15:14]: Realized teens often just want to vent, not receive unsolicited advice. Now asks, "Are you interested in my opinion on this?"—which shows respect.
  • Quote:
    "They were just so shocked to be asked rather than avalanched with unsolicited advice." — Lisa [15:28]
• Charlotte from Jersey City [21:41]: Recalls a beloved high school math teacher who held open discussions, fostering respect and engagement.
  • Quote:
    "We went to math class because we knew we would be rewarded on Friday with a wide open discussion." — Charlotte [22:19]

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On the science of motivational gaps:
  "There's a societal neurobiological incompetence belief... that young people's brains are just not mature enough. They can't think logically and they're overtaken by irrational emotional parts of the brain. And in fact, young people are very good at goal-directed behavior and planning." — David Yeager [14:15]
• On teaching as learning to listen and adapt:
  "I wanted to write a book that, frankly, I would have wanted to read when I was a teacher and had no time." — David Yeager [09:17]
• From a young text contributor [17:29]:
  "Everything is new and scary, and it's just fine that we're in a time where there's no precedent anymore... It would be super helpful to hear from older people that everything is new and that's okay. Change does not equate to harm."

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:02 — Introduction to the show and today’s theme
• 04:19 — Yeager’s motivation for studying youth development
• 05:33 — On adolescence and social/emotional needs
• 07:03 — Misconceptions and generational bias
• 10:31 — First caller: Ari on agency and motivation
• 12:15 — The core adolescent need for respect
• 14:06 — How adults underestimate adolescent competence
• 15:14 — Lisa’s approach: asking if advice is wanted
• 18:15 — Types of adult approaches: mentor, enforcer, protector
• 20:26 — Case study: a great mentor teacher
• 21:41 — Charlotte recalls a respected, relatable teacher
• 23:41 — Discussing extrinsic and intrinsic motivation
• 26:15 — Navigating mentorship and culture for young people of immigrants
• 28:05 — Yeager’s closing advice on seeking and giving input

Episode Takeaways

• Adolescents’ quest for respect and contribution should be understood, not trivialized.
• The most impactful adults (mentors) combine high expectations with high support and genuine respect.
• Motivation can be jumpstarted externally but is sustained by pride, agency, and purpose.
• Open, respectful conversations invite young people to seek guidance, even when they resist unsolicited advice.
• Generational cycles of mistrust are normal, but not fate—adults can break the pattern by engaging with humility and faith in youth capability.

For more:
Dr. David Yeager’s book 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People
All Of It from WNYC airs weekdays at noon.

Summary prepared for those seeking lively insights and science-backed tools to become better mentors, teachers, parents, and partners to young people navigating the transformative years of 10 to 25.