The Screenwriter of 'Challengers' and 'Queer' on His Massive Year

Summary

All Of It Podcast Summary: "The Screenwriter of 'Challengers' and 'Queer' on His Massive Year"

Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Justin Karitskas, Screenwriter
Release Date: November 25, 2024
Podcast: All Of It by WNYC

---

Introduction

In this episode of All Of It, host Alison Stewart engages in a captivating conversation with screenwriter Justin Karitskas. Justin discusses his extraordinary year, during which both of his feature films, "Challengers" and "Queer," were released. The episode delves into Justin’s creative journey, the inspirations behind his films, and his transition from theater to Hollywood.

Justin's Massive Year: Dual Film Releases

Justin Karitskas achieved a remarkable feat by having his first two feature films released in the same year, both directed by Luca Guadagnino and starring prominent Hollywood talents:

• "Challengers": A tennis drama starring Zendaya as Tashi Duncan, a former tennis phenom entangled in a love triangle with her famous husband and his childhood best friend.
• "Queer": An adaptation of William S. Burroughs' novel, featuring Daniel Craig as William Lee, a gay American expat in 1950s Mexico, obsessed with wooing a young man named Eugene Allerton.

Transition from Theater to Film

Justin shares his roots in off-Broadway theater, highlighting how this background laid the foundation for his success in Hollywood.

Justin Karitskas [02:01]: "I come from off Broadway theater. That's kind of my roots. And so in theater, you're really thrilled if like 100 people see your play. That's the big success. So to have this kind of reception... it's pretty amazing."

He explains that the storytelling skills developed in theater seamlessly transitioned to filmmaking, particularly noting how the rehearsal process for "Challengers" felt similar to directing a play.

Justin Karitskas [02:30]: "When the actors got to Boston, and we were starting to really work together... it didn't feel any different from working on a play. So it was a really nice way to ease into filmmaking."

Creating "Challengers": Inspiration and Themes

Justin recounts the inspiration behind "Challengers," sparked by the 2018 US Open match between Serena Williams and Naomi Osaka.

Justin Karitskas [04:53]: "I just started thinking, well, what if you really needed to talk about something, and what if it was something beyond tennis? How would you have that conversation?"

He emphasizes the choice of tennis as the backdrop for a love triangle, noting the sport's equality between genders and its individualistic nature, which mirrors the film's themes of isolation and connection.

Justin Karitskas [06:00]: "In tennis, at least at the Grand Slams, the pay is the same, the viewership is pretty similar... which is the experience of most men on the tour... same as the women."

The Process of Getting Films Made

Justin explains his proactive approach to screenwriting, often writing scripts on spec without initial backing.

Justin Karitskas [03:07]: "I wrote it because it was a movie I wanted to see."

His collaboration with producers Amy Pascal and Rachel O'Connor played a pivotal role in bringing "Challengers" to life. Amy Pascal's immediate support and vision for the film were crucial.

Justin Karitskas [03:56]: "Amy read it, and the first thing she said was, I'm gonna send this to Zendaya, and she's gonna say yes."

This connection ultimately led to Luca Guadagnino directing both films, aligning with his desire to emulate the style of Mike Nichols.

Justin Karitskas [04:09]: "This feels like a movie that Mike Nichols would make."

Thematic Elements in "Challengers"

The film explores deep emotional and erotic undercurrents within the competitive world of tennis. Justin discusses the portrayal of lifelong friendships and the inherent tension in love triangles set against the backdrop of an individual sport.

Justin Karitskas [10:04]: "I think every friendship like that is charged with eroticism, whether we admit it or not."

He also highlights the unique setting of a tennis academy, where characters develop intimate bonds akin to those of an "old married couple."

Discussion of "Queer": Adapting Burroughs' Novel

Transitioning to "Queer," Justin shares his immediate connection with William S. Burroughs' work and his enthusiasm for adapting the novel.

Justin Karitskas [13:43]: "I was completely amazed by it... I read it that night and called him immediately and said, I'm in."

Justin discusses the challenges of translating Burroughs' monologue-heavy narrative into a visually driven film, focusing on character development and maintaining the novel's essence without overwhelming the audience.

Justin Karitskas [16:15]: "Figuring out how to get the spirit of Lee without getting all of the talk of him was part of my task."

Research and Development

Tennis for "Challengers"

Justin immersed himself in tennis, not as a fan but as a storyteller seeking the drama inherent in the sport.

Justin Karitskas [06:44]: "Tennis was the only thing that was holding my attention... better than every movie I was watching, better than every TV show."

Ayahuasca and 1950s Mexico for "Queer"

For "Queer," Justin delved into the cultural and historical context of 1950s Mexico and the effects of ayahuasca, integrating these elements to authentically portray the protagonist's obsession and the era's aesthetics.

Justin Karitskas [18:37]: "I wanted it to feel like this completely alien thing and this completely new experience."

He collaborated closely with researchers and designers to ensure accurate and vivid representations.

Comparison Between "Challengers" and "Queer"

Justin sees his two films as thematically linked, both exploring the boundaries of interpersonal connections and the quest for understanding within intimate relationships.

Justin Karitskas [21:17]: "Both being movies about the limits of what you can try to get out of another person and what you have to get for yourself."

He reflects on how the experience of creating "Challengers" influenced the development of "Queer."

Awards Season Insights

With awards season approaching, Justin shares observations influenced by his wife, Celine Song, whose film "Past Lives" received critical acclaim.

Justin Karitskas [22:42]: "If you can use the energy of something like awards season to get people to see those movies or remember those movies, that's an energy worth tapping into."

He underscores the importance of visibility for great films that might otherwise be overlooked.

Conclusion

Alison Stewart wraps up the episode by acknowledging Justin Karitskas' impressive achievements and expressing excitement for "Queer"'s release.

Alison Stewart [23:29]: "It was really nice to meet you, Justin."

Justin reciprocates the sentiments, highlighting the collaborative spirit that brought his projects to fruition.

Justin Karitskas [23:37]: "Here we go."

The episode concludes with a brief nod to "Challengers," available for streaming, and a teaser for the upcoming discussion on "Queer."

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Notable Quotes

• Justin Karitskas [02:01]: "In theater, you're really thrilled if like 100 people see your play. That's the big success."
• Justin Karitskas [04:53]: "How would you have that conversation? And how could you communicate the tension of that using film?"
• Justin Karitskas [10:04]: "I think every friendship like that is charged with eroticism, whether we admit it or not."
• Justin Karitskas [16:15]: "Figuring out how to get the spirit of Lee without getting all of the talk of him was part of my task."
• Justin Karitskas [21:17]: "Both being movies about the limits of what you can try to get out of another person and what you have to get for yourself."

Conclusion

This episode of All Of It offers an in-depth look into Justin Karitskas' creative process, the successful navigation of dual film releases, and the intricate thematic elements that define his work. Listeners gain valuable insights into the world of screenwriting, adaptation, and the delicate balance between personal storytelling and commercial filmmaking.

Transcript

[Justin Karitskas]

Hey, Lulu here.

[Lulu]

Whether we are romping through science, music, politics, technology or feelings, we seek to leave you seeing the world anew. Radiolab adventures right on the edge of what we think we know. Wherever you get Podcasts.

[Justin Karitskas]

Listener Supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Not everyone can say their first two feature films were released in the same year, shot by the same director and star massive Hollywood talents. But that is the exact year my next guest has had. Justin Karitzkis is the screenwriter behind the smash hit tennis drama Challengers, which was out earlier this year. And then he also wrote the new film Queer, starring Daniel Craig. Both are directed by Luca Guadiniat. Guadagnino.

[Justin Karitskas]

Guadagnino.

[Alison Stewart]

Thank you. Challenger is an original work from Justin stars Zendaya as Tashi Duncan, a former tennis phenom who finds herself caught in a love triangle between her famous tennis star husband and his childhood best friend. The movie spawned memes, inspired Halloween costumes, and was beloved by audiences and critics alike. His new movie, Queer, is an adaptation of William S. Burroughs novel. Daniel Craig plays William Lee, a gay American expat who is living in Mexico in the 1950s. He's enchanted by a young man named Eugene Allerton and soon becomes a little obsessed with wooing him. But he can't quite figure out just how Allerton feels about him or whether he's even interested in being with men. Queer will be in theaters November 27th. Challengers is available to stream now. And I'm joined in studio by the writer of both films, Justin Kryskitz. Nice to meet you.

[Justin Karitskas]

Nice to meet you too. Thanks for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

So the first two films you've made, both the same year, both star major Hollywood stars, both by acclaimed director. First of all, what has this year been like?

[Justin Karitskas]

Pretty crazy. Yeah, it's been really incredibly gratifying. You know, I come from off Broadway theater. That's kind of my roots. And so in theater you're really thrilled if like 100 people see your play. That's the big success. So to have this kind of reception and, you know, it's pretty amazing.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, yeah. You said you were in off Broadway theater. How did your theater experience prepare you for the Hollywood experience?

[Justin Karitskas]

I mean, what you learn about yourself as a person who tells stories is pretty similar and it carries over from one medium to another. And also I had the real benefit of on Challengers, for example, we had this abnormal thing where we had a couple weeks of rehearsal before we started shooting. And so when the actors Got to Boston, and we were starting to really work together. It didn't feel any different from working on a play. So it was a really nice way to ease into filmmaking.

[Alison Stewart]

What was the process of getting the films actually made? Did you have to be persistent and patient? Did you suddenly happen and, wow, my film's getting made?

[Justin Karitskas]

It was kind of a really quick, condensed process. I had written Challengers on spec, which means that, you know, you write it just for yourself. And I didn't know who was attached to it or nobody was asking me to do it. Nobody knew I was doing it. I just wrote it because it was a movie I wanted to see.

[Alison Stewart]

I love that.

[Justin Karitskas]

Yeah. And that's how I've written everything I've ever written. That's how I wrote every play I ever wrote. And then I sent it to a bunch of producers and eventually decided to work with Amy Pascal and Rachel O'Connor, and they make the Spider man movies. And Amy read it, and the first thing she said was, I'm gonna send this to Zendaya, and she's gonna say yes. And I said, okay, good luck with that. And then from there, things really moved really quickly.

[Alison Stewart]

What did they tell you they saw in the script?

[Justin Karitskas]

I think what made me feel like. Well, a few things made me feel like Amy was kind of a soulmate for this movie in a lot of ways. And one of them was that she read it and said, this feels like a movie that Mike Nichols would make.

[Unknown]

Oh, wow.

[Justin Karitskas]

You know, and I had. I've loved Mike Nichols films forever. And especially Carnal Knowledge, which was a real influence on Challengers, to the point where Art Donaldson, the character. Art Donaldson is kind of named after Art Garfunkel. Oh, really? Wow. Yeah. And then I didn't know this, but Luca had been saying for years that he wanted to make a movie that felt like a Mike Nichols movie. And so Amy knew that and connected that and sent him the script. And that's kind of how it all came together.

[Unknown]

Now you have sports movies, you have love triangle movies. Which came first with challengers. Did you want to write a sports film, or did you want to write a love triangle?

[Justin Karitskas]

I wanted to write a tennis movie. And how that.

[Unknown]

Tennis specifically?

[Justin Karitskas]

Yeah, tennis specifically. I'm not really a sports guy, and if you had told me, like, five years ago that my first movie would be about sports, I would be really shocked. But this thing happened where in 2018, I just happened to turn on the US Open, and it was this match between Serena Williams and Naomi Osaka in the final and there was this very controversial call where Serena Williams was accused of receiving coaching from the sidelines. And not being a massive tennis fan, I hadn't heard of this rule, but immediately it struck me as this intensely cinematic thing, you know, that you're all alone on the court. There's one person who cares as much about what happens to you out there as you do, but that's the person you can't talk to. And I, for whatever reason, just started thinking, well, what if you really needed to talk about something, and what if it was something beyond tennis? How would you have that conversation? And how could you communicate the tension of that using film?

[Unknown]

I think it's interesting because when I thought about tennis and this film, I thought, what is a sport where women and men are equal? Yeah, right. Because you couldn't do this with. Necessarily football. No, you couldn't do it with hockey, but you can do it with tennis.

[Justin Karitskas]

It's a very weird particular sport in our culture. In that tennis, at least at the big tournaments at the Grand Slams, the pay is the same, the viewership is pretty similar. And it was important to me to set it in a challenger event or not at a Grand Slam, because they play three sets, and that's the experience of most men on the tour, is that they're playing three sets, which is the same as the women.

[Alison Stewart]

So it sounded like you went down a tennis rabbit hole big time. In terms of research.

[Justin Karitskas]

Yeah, I became. I started doing research that I thought was research for the movie, and then it sort of turned into this thing where tennis was the only thing that was holding my attention. You know, it was like, better than every movie I was watching, better than every TV show.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Justin Karitskas]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

What did you see in tennis that you hadn't seen before?

[Justin Karitskas]

I think a few things. The first thing that I saw, which is true of all sports, but it feels especially pronounced in tennis, is that every moment is dramatic. You know, every moment is packed with stakes, and there's a very clear opposition. And I think because tennis is an individual sport, you spend the whole match looking at two people. And so you project a lot onto these two people, and you project a lot into their heads and, you know, into their souls. And so that had a lot to do with it. And I think also coming from theater, tennis felt very theatrical. It felt like theater in the round, you know, especially when you watch something like Wimbledon and you see the Royal Box or something, it's like watching Shakespeare at the Globe, you know, it's also.

[Alison Stewart]

When you watch people Watching tennis, the.

[Unknown]

Looking left, the looking right, the looking left.

[Alison Stewart]

You can see on their faces, the.

[Unknown]

Expressions, the feeling, oh, my God, he's not going to hit that. Oh, my God, she hit that.

[Justin Karitskas]

Yes, exactly. Yeah. You're very aware of the crowd and you're very aware of perspective in tennis. And so that felt like an interesting place to set a love triangle, because love triangles are all about who's looking at who, you know. And anytime you're watching a scene in a movie that has a love triangle and it's between two characters, you're always kind of watching it from the perspective of the third. So that felt like that naturally fit within the world of tennis.

[Alison Stewart]

You said that it was important that the character of Tashi Duncan be played.

[Unknown]

By a black woman. Yeah, she's played by Zendaya.

[Alison Stewart]

For people who haven't seen, why did that feel like it was a vital to the story?

[Justin Karitskas]

Well, it's one of those things where you don't necessarily get to choose which characters come to you first. And for me, with challengers, Tashi was the character that first sort of appeared to me. And I think when you first of all, it was baked into the moment that inspired me writing the movie, which is that I was watching Naomi Osaka and Serena Williams, who have two very different life experiences, you know, but are both these remarkable black women in tennis? And that felt like the story of women's tennis for the past however many decades has been the story of women of color. But then next to that, I knew what Tashi's story was going to be, her backstory. And I knew that it was important that for Tashi, the game of tennis meant something very different than it did for Art and Patrick. You know, that tennis is a sort of rich people's sport, usually, and it's a traditionally very white sport. And so it was important that something be at stake for her in losing her tennis career. That wasn't necessarily at stake for these two very privileged boys.

[Unknown]

How does Tashi measure success?

[Justin Karitskas]

That's a great question. I think it changes over the course of her life. You know, I think so much of the movie is about her sort of being very much on track to have a very clear definition of success, which is this success that she's felt has been promised to her since, you know, she was a teenager. And then it gets ripped away from her and she has to completely reorganize her, her view of what success means.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk about Art and Patrick. There is definitely this erotic charge between Patrick and Art, how much of that was in the script? How much of that was in the casting? Did this come later?

[Justin Karitskas]

It's a mixture of everything. You know, I think a lot of it is baked into the very first draft of the script. Because when I think about those two characters, I think about them as these kind of orphans. You know, they both come from these well to do families, but they've been shunted off to this tennis academy to go be raised on a tennis court and grow up in dorm rooms together. And they've done that since they were preteens. So they've gone through puberty together. They've had crushes on the same girls, They've been living together. They're like an old married couple in some way, but they also know each other very intimately in the way that only friends from that time can know each other. And I think every friendship like that is charged with eroticism, whether we admit it or not, you know? But I also think within tennis, there's a deep eroticism in that. If you think about tennis as a combat sport, you know, it has a relationship to boxing, where boxing is all about touching another person. Tennis is all about not touching another person. And to me, that's just like a well of repression. And so there's a lot of eroticism in the game itself.

[Alison Stewart]

You know, it brings to life the end of the movie.

[Justin Karitskas]

Yeah, for sure, right? Yes. And I always thought of the end of the movie as a sort of culmination of all of that. What was interesting in collaborating with Luca on the movie is that he had this very sharp idea when we first talked about the film, which is that he said, in a love triangle, all the corners should touch. And when I first heard that, I thought, yeah, they do. They're all very embedded in each other's erotic and emotional lives. And he went, no, no, no. Literally. They should literally touch. And so there hadn't been a scene in the movie where all three of them shared an intimate moment together.

[Alison Stewart]

Except the end.

[Justin Karitskas]

Except the end, which was always there. But then I had this task of figuring out a place and a way and sort of giving the proper Runway for a moment for them to all share this moment of intimacy early in their lives that would then make the end reverberate in a different way.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Justin Kariskas.

[Unknown]

He is the screenwriter behind two movies, Challengers, which you can stream at home.

[Alison Stewart]

And Queer, which will be released in.

[Unknown]

Theaters on November 27th.

[Alison Stewart]

We'll hear more about Queer after the break. This is all of it.

[Justin Karitskas]

Next time on the New Yorker Radio Hour. Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson on ethics at the Supreme Court.

[Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson]

As a lower court judge, I was subject to an ethics code that was enforceable. I haven't seen a good reason why the ethics code that the Supreme Court adopted shouldn't be enforceable.

[Justin Karitskas]

Justice Jackson, next time on the New Yorker Radio Hour.

[Alison Stewart]

You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Justin Kariskas. He is the screenwriter behind two movies this year, Challengers, which you can, and Queer, which will be released in theaters on November 27th. Before I go on to Queer, is it true that you were actually on set in the movie Challengers as a writer?

[Justin Karitskas]

Yeah, I was in pre production and in rehearsal and on set the whole time, which was pretty amazing.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, that's unusual for some writers.

[Justin Karitskas]

It's very unusual. And it's a total testament to Luca and his sort of confidence and generosity as a collaborator. And also to the producers. To Zendaya and Amy and Rachel. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, let's talk about Queer. It's a novel based from William S. Burroughs. Luca gave it for you to read. What did you think when you first read it?

[Justin Karitskas]

I was completely amazed by it. You know, I had been familiar with Burroughs work in Naked Lunch, and I'd read the Yahe Letters, and we were on set for Challengers one day, and Luca just handed me this book and said, read this tonight and tell me if you'll adapt it for me.

[Alison Stewart]

That's kind of funny.

[Justin Karitskas]

It is funny, actually. That's a real. That's a window into what Luca's like. But I, of course, read it that night and called him immediately and said, I'm in.

[Alison Stewart]

Queer does not have a ton of dialogue initially. At least the first few scenes don't have a lot of dialogue.

[Unknown]

It's really visual.

[Alison Stewart]

How did you figure out how to introduce us to the main character, Lee, without having him speak so much?

[Justin Karitskas]

Yeah, well, something that was really useful is we had this great researcher, Ben Panzeca, who did all kinds of research about, like, the kind of gin he would drink, the kind of cigarettes he would smoke, what he would wear, you know, which then got internalized by Jonathan Anderson, our amazing costume designer. And so I had this image of what he was, how he was dressed, and how he was sitting at this bar in Mexico. And for whatever reason, it clicked with me that the movie should open with him looking in the camera and saying, you're not queer. And then we realize he's talking to this kid. He's trying to suss out.

[Unknown]

And yeah, it's interesting because Allerton in the film, who he's sort of pursuing.

[Alison Stewart]

Obsessing with, he's not nearly as talkative.

[Unknown]

No, as Lee. How did you want to get through a little bit of Allerton mystery? Like, how do we get to know.

[Alison Stewart]

Him when he really doesn't talk very.

[Unknown]

Much and we really don't get to know him at least 45 minutes in? Yeah, we don't really know where he stands.

[Justin Karitskas]

It's a real challenge, and it's definitely challenge for Drew Starkey, who plays him. I think it was really important to me that the movie not be a story of unrequited love, you know, that it's not the story of a man who falls for a younger man and the younger man isn't interested. I actually think there's just as much at stake for Allerton as there is for Lee. He just expresses it in a very different way and that so much of the movie is about the two of them trying to get in sync with each other, and then the horror of finding yourself in sync and what that. What it feels like when you get what you want.

[Alison Stewart]

I love Lee's language in the film, the way he talks. It tells you a lot about who he is. Can you describe a little bit about how creating his language, his linguistics for the film?

[Justin Karitskas]

Well, so much of that comes from Burroughs, you know, And I really tried as much as I could to use Burroughs dialogue when I could, because it's amazing and so particular, you know, I think one of the big challenges for me in adapting the story is that the book is full of monologues that Lee gives on all kinds of topics.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, interesting.

[Justin Karitskas]

You know, from chess to different political situations to everything.

[Alison Stewart]

Can't really do that necessarily in a.

[Justin Karitskas]

Film, or you have to be very judicious. Judicious about where you do it, you know, or else it can become a little overwhelming for an audience, you know. So figuring out how to get the spirit of Lee without getting all of the talk of him was part of my task.

[Alison Stewart]

When you found out that Daniel Craig was going to be in this role, did you change the script at all? Did you adapt to him?

[Justin Karitskas]

I didn't have to change very much. I mean, he was kind of. He was game to do everything, you know, he was very much showing up to make the movie that I had written in the movie that Luca wanted to direct. And, yeah, no, he really threw himself into the character as he existed in the film.

[Alison Stewart]

Lee becomes sort of obsessed with telepathy.

[Unknown]

And that's something that Burroughs was obsessed with as well.

[Alison Stewart]

Why is this something, telepathy, something that.

[Unknown]

He'S so interested in?

[Justin Karitskas]

Well, I think it's about. He says this phrase communicating on the level of intuition. And it's about this sort of complete open channel between yourself and another person. That there's this real gap that is always present, no matter how close you get to somebody else. That at the end of the day, there's a sort of invisible wall between the two of you. Because you're stuck in your own body and in your own mind. And I think he sees telepathy or the. The possibility of this drug that they're chasing after called Yahe, which is ayahuasca, that they think it might open up this channel between the two of them. And, yeah, that's what he's hoping for, a sort of leaving of the self.

[Unknown]

How did you go about writing a scene which is a vision or a hallucination brought on by the ayahuasca?

[Justin Karitskas]

Yeah, I've never done ayahuasca. So I thought about it for a second. I thought maybe I should try it. But then I sort of had this realization that ayahuasca now has sort of become corporatized. You know, there's a very, like, Burning man sort of tech startup vibe around ayahuasca, you know, where now you can pay $7,000 and go to Costa Rica and be looked over by a shaman. And that's completely the opposite of what was Burroughs experience of ayahuasca. He was really like one of the first gringos to even take it, you know, So I wanted it to feel like this completely alien thing and this completely new experience. And so, in a way, I think having gone and done one of those ayahuasca experiences that you can do today maybe wouldn't have helped.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Justin Karitskas]

So what I did is I read a lot. I read a lot of Burroughs writing on ayahuasca. I watched a lot of testimonies. I watched one documentary where a neuroscientist took ayahuasca. And his lab partner documented it and interviewed him as he was tripping. And then all of that kind of fades away. And you're just trying to do a particular thing with a particular character.

[Unknown]

I was going to ask, in terms of research, what did you do for your research into Mexico in the 1950s? What did you find that surprised you? What did you think was unusual about Mexico in the 50s?

[Justin Karitskas]

A lot. I mean, the visuals of it surprised me. The colors of the buildings and the cars and all of that is so lush, you know, and you look at old camera footage of that time, and it's really incredible. I think what was interesting about this community that I was writing about is that there are these American expats who are almost not really interested in embedding themselves in Mexican society.

[Unknown]

They're not really.

[Justin Karitskas]

Yeah. You know, they're sort of like just in a world to themselves and they have none of the guilt or self consciousness that we might today about that.

[Unknown]

It's funny, in the movie, the kind of music that's playing, they're playing Nirvana. Yeah. And they're playing modern music. Was that written into the script or did that come in later?

[Justin Karitskas]

So some of that stuff is written into the script if it's like on a jukebox, you know, if it's diegetic and it's happening within the logic of the scene. But all of that is just Luca knowing really early on that he wanted to have the soundtrack be full of stuff like Nirvana and like Sinead O'Connor.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's interesting. Do you see any sort of parallels between Queer and Challengers?

[Justin Karitskas]

Well, I think of them as sort of siblings in that queer just wouldn't exist in the way that it does if Luca and I weren't in Boston together making Challengers. I think the thing that connects them thematically is this thing of them both being movies about the limits of what you can try to get out of another person and what you have to get for yourself, what you have to do for yourself, that there's a sort of. You know, Challengers is a movie about an individual sport. But of course, anybody who watches tennis knows that the players are not alone. They've got a whole box of people and there's more than one person playing. But at the same time, when the ball is in play, you're the only one with the racket in your hand, you know? And I think queer to some extent is about this false promise of telepathy.

[Alison Stewart]

It's award season. It's about to be awards season. Your wife, Celine Song, went through all of last year with her Best Film, Best Picture nominated Past Lives. She was a guest on the show, actually.

[Justin Karitskas]

Oh, amazing.

[Alison Stewart]

Has she given you any advice?

[Justin Karitskas]

I mean, she went through that whole process with such intelligence and grace, so just. She was lovely through osmosis. I learned a lot from watching her go through it, for sure.

[Alison Stewart]

What did you notice about awards season and all that comes with it? All the glamour goes on.

[Justin Karitskas]

Goes on for a long time. No, you know, I think Honestly, what I think about it is that at the end of the day, you're campaigning to have the movie stick around in people's consciousness, you know, and that's a really important thing because a lot of great movies come out every year that then for whatever reason, people forget about or don't see. And I think if you can use the energy of something like awards season to get people to see those movies or remember those movies, that's an energy worth tapping into.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest has been Justin Karitskas. He's the screenwriter between two movies opening this year, Challengers, which you can stream at home now, and Queer, which will be released in theaters on November 27th. It was really nice to meet you, Justin.

[Justin Karitskas]

So nice to meet you, too.

[Alison Stewart]

Thank you for having me and that. Oh, yeah, we're gonna go out on Challengers. I like it.

[Justin Karitskas]

Here we go.

[Alison Stewart]

Get it. It's all of it. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening.

[Unknown]

I appreciate you.

[Alison Stewart]

I'll meet you back here tomorrow.

[Dave]

It's been so long. How have you been? Hello. I'm doing well, Dave. Why are you talking that way? Please say one for a compliment or two for a question. Yeah, this is weird. I think I'm gonna go.

[Unknown]

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