B (2:58)

I actually became a stuntman because I went to school in Philadelphia at Temple University, and I was a college gymnast. And so once I got done with college, I felt that I never reached my full potential as a college athlete. And so I wanted to find something to kind of keep performing, keep competing. And so lots of college former gymnasts go to either like Cirque du Soleil or aerial skiing was kind of one that a bunch of college gymnasts went to. I did the aerial skiing route for a sea and then realized I wanted something bigger. And so I packed up my car, left the east coast, and moved to California. And that was 1995, so 29 years ago.

C (3:39)

Wow. What was it that originally made you think, oh, stunts could be, in your words, bigger? Was it from watching movies yourself or was there some kind of inspiration for you in your life?

B (3:49)

Well, stunts being bigger as far as, like, on the fall guy or, oh, in your.

C (3:54)

You talked about aerial skiing, right? And you said, oh, I maybe want to go do something bigger. What was the influence in your life that made you think, oh, hey, stunts, that's the direction that I want to go?

B (4:03)

I realized that being I knew the guy that won the World cup, and he was the best in the world at the time, and kind of saw where his life was and saw kind of everything it took to really kind of be down that track to be an aero skier and knew that I kind of, at some point I needed to have a career. And so I knew my coach at the time would do stunts in Salt Lake City when he wasn't coaching the World cup team. And so I kind of followed his lead and knew that there was, you know, there was a movie business and there was something that kind of could highlight, you know, attributes that I had and skill sets that I had. And so it's just kind of taking, you know, a lot of stunt guys are. I basically consider them professional athletes. So it's just basically taking one discipline of aerial skiing and transitioning it into stunt work.

C (4:51)

What other kind of training did you need to do and where did you go for that training once you decided, hey, I want to go from being a gymnast aerial skier, into specifically stunts?

B (5:02)

I think when I moved to California, I kind of was very fortunate to hook up with five guys that are very like minded, like myself, and they had a very extensive martial arts background. And so me being a gymnast, I was able to pick up a lot of the martial arts aspects really fast enough to basically call it kind of Movie fu. You know, you don't have to really be a black belt in a particular style to really pull it off on camera. So I taught those guys gymnastics. They taught me martial arts arts. And then a lot of the stuff is kind of on the job training and kind of learning as you go. You know, at first you're going to start doing, you know, fights and fall fights and basic falls is kind of where you'll start off. And then you'll kind of start building yourself, building a name for yourself, and hopefully you'll get bigger and bigger things as your career progresses.

C (5:50)

You know, it's interesting to hear you say that you learn it as you go, because I can totally understand how on the job training is important because every next stunt, you need to learn it to execute it. Never sure what's going to come next. But it also seems like there's a lot of categories of stunts. I mean, you've got fight scenes, jumping huge distances, driving cars, just to name a few. Makes me wonder, do most stunt performers specialize, or is it more like everyone is a jack of all trades?

B (6:17)

I think to be kind of a working stunt guy that can do this as a career, I think being a jack of all trades is really important. But when you're doing something like fall guy, you know, we're doing big iconic things. And so having like, guys that are really the best at car work or the best at high falls, you know, having those specific disciplines and really getting the best of the best to. To a make. Make that shot as safe as possible and just, you know, hedge your bets to make sure that it goes off without a hitch. And. And so you get the best of the best for those guys. And there are the jack of all trades, which is a great thing to be. But sometimes you do need specific guys to pull off those specific stunts.

C (7:04)

Listeners, if you're just joining us, we're talking to Chris o', Hara, the stunt designer for the new movie the Fall Guy, which is out in theaters right now. We're talking about stunts, stunt designing, executing, and Chris's history in the stunt world in Hollywood. So, Chris, the director of the Fall Guy is David Leach, who is also a former stuntman and also a friend. I understand. How did you guys guys first meet? What did you work on previously?

B (7:33)

Well, Dave is actually one of the guys that I mentioned, was one of the first guys I met when I moved out to California and being a really great martial artist. And so there was six of us that kind of spent every day together training and eating and Just training more. So Dave and I have known each other for 29 years. Grew up in the business together when we were early days. Spent every day together. And then we've kind of, like, our paths have kind of taken, you know, our own individual paths in this business. At some point, you know, early on in our careers, we lived together. We've, you know, started off on doing, like, the Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel and Martial Law, which is where you kind of cut your teeth for, you know, early stunt guys and had a great opportunity to work on those shows together. And, you know, as far as being, you know, stunt coordinator, we've worked together second director. I've worked underneath him, and then first unit director that he's, you know, the job title he's in now. Kind of done two movies together. Hobbs and Shaw. Fast and Furious Presents Hobbs and Shaw and then the Fall Guy.

C (8:43)

When he first told you the idea about this film, the Fall Guy, and that he wanted you to do it, what was your first reaction?

B (8:51)

You know, I think it's happened a couple times where we've had conversations on the phone, and he calls me and we Talk for about 20 minutes, and at the end he goes, well, what do you think? And I, you know, I always say, you had me at hello. You know, Fall Guys is an iconic TV show that this movie is based off of my childhood, and so it highlights the career of a stuntman. And so what better movie to want to be involved in as a stunt coordinator and stunt designer than the Fall Guy? So it was a heavy weight to have on our shoulders because we want to make sure that we represent the stunt community and highlight what we do. So going through it, it was a big weight on our shoulders, but I think we created something really great that puts the stunt performer in a great light. So I think mission accomplished.

C (9:42)

Yeah, both the stunt performer and the stunts themselves. I mean, the stunts in this movie are big. You even broke a world record with one of the stunts. Was that intentional?

B (9:51)

We did? Well, I think it was written by Drew Pearce, and so the writer wrote in the script, breaking the world record. And so I don't. As the way I kind of. My outlook is that I'm not trying to break world records with things. That's not my goal. I'm trying to create, you know, the illusion of danger and by minimizing the risks and, you know, when we do a film. So I didn't know if I could pull it off, you know, because I know the world record that they were comparing it to was Done on, I believe, Casino Royale. And it was. It was seven roles and actually it kind of went downhill. So it had gravity helping it out. So when we went to kind of look at locations for our film, we were going to do it on a beach. And so beach is totally flat, so we didn't have gravity helping me. So if I didn't pull off the world record, I at least knew that the first cannon roll ever done in film was done on a movie called McHugh with John Wayne. And so that cannon roll was done on a beach. And so if we couldn't break a world record, I knew that we could pay homage to my predecessors in the stunt business.

C (11:04)

Can you explain quickly what a cannon roll is? Because I'm not sure that everybody listening will recognize.

B (11:09)

So a cannon roll is kind of like an air driven plug. So a plug being kind of think about almost like a telephone pole, something that kind of shoots out of the bottom driven by air. And that basically, as the car is driving down the beach where we were, there's a slight turn and then we hit this button which basically propels this pole down to the ground, which lifts the car up, creating the cannon effect of it. And so that's kind of what I'm saying with a cannon. And when they did it on McHugh, they did it with black powder. So they used black powder to kind of deploy the cannon or the pole. And now we use air, so we use compressed air, and they kind of use that to kind of deploy the pole. And that's what creates that effect of.

C (11:58)

A cannon roll and the car's rolling. You said the previous record was Casino Royale, my favorite Bond movie, by the way. So I remember this. And then I saw the rolls. How many rolls was it in the movie that you did?

B (12:08)

Seven. They did seven.

C (12:10)

And then for the fall guy, how many rolls was it?

B (12:12)

We did eight and a half.

C (12:13)

Eight and a half. Wow. And, you know, you had mentioned that it's on sand as well. And it's clear that this is a real science. When you watch the behind the scenes footage, you're thinking about gravity force, the density of the sand, for instance. Can you describe the process of designing a stunt?

B (12:29)

Yeah. So I think. I think the misconception about stunt performers is it's just what you see in the film. Right. So it's grandiose. You see this great crash, and it's amazing. But the lead up to that was, you know, four months of development, you know, all the way down to choice of car. The car was a Grand Cherokee, you know, a Jeep Grand Cherokee. And we chose that car because it's basically as tall as it is wide. So if something's as tall as it is wide, it kind of creates a cylinder. And so cylinders roll. So that was kind of, you know, we specifically chose the car for that. When we had the special effects team put a cage in the car, on the corners of the car, we kind of pulled the cage in a little bit. So as the car crushed, you know, the corners crushed, which created more of a cylinder, which helped out the roll. We had a lot of production support to kind of allow us to test at the location. So we basically had two test cars, and we were able to go to the location on the sand and get information, factual information from doing testing. We knew that the sand was going to play a factor, and it played a factor in our early tests. And we didn't have all the support to kind of, you know, make the beach exactly what we needed it to do, where it needed to be as far as compressing the sand, rolling the sand, wetting the sand to kind of make it as dense as possible to help out the effort. Because big, fluffy sand creates, you know, sucks up energy, right? So we want to try and keep the sand as hard as possible. And so when we did that fourth, that. That last one that you see, that broke the record. We really, you know, we had guys on the beach from 4:00am, you know, laying down water, rolling the beach. You know, they have these rollers that have shakers in it which compact the sand even more. And they just kept rolling it and wetting it for. For five hours until we did, or actually six hours until we actually did the shot. Because not only does the Canon car need to have a great surface, the vehicles capturing, filming it have to have the best service. And you're only as good as your slowest car. So the slowest car was actually the first car or the. The car leading has to be set the pace. And so that was the actual camera car filming it. So that was kind of. We had to make. He was the most important one that we had to make sure that his track was as compacted as possible so that he had the best chance, because he was basically pulling and setting the speed for everybody to get into.

C (15:05)

Wow, that's an enormous amount of design, and I'm sure a lot of math, a lot of, like, 3D programming probably goes into making all of this. There's a text before we go to break. I just want to read a text. We just got in from a listener, it says Zoe Bell had a film learning to be a stunt performer with Jenny Epper, who recently passed. She was Lynda Carter's stunt double for Wonder Woman. Stunt performers definitely need to be recognized for their work behind and in front of the camera. I thoroughly enjoyed the Fall Guy. Great start for the summer movie season. We're talking to Chris o', Hara, a stunt coordinator and the first ever stunt designer from the film the Fall Guy, which is available to rent on streaming platforms. Now we'll take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll hear more about what it means to be a stunt designer and what Chris hopes that new title will mean for the future of stunt people everywhere. Stay with us. This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Kusha Navadar in for Alison Stewart. And today we're looking at some of our favorite conversations about new movies and shows you can stream this summer. We're listening to a conversation with Chris o', Hara, the stunt designer of the film the Fall Guy, which is available to rent on streaming platforms. Now. Before the break, Chris was talking about the process of making the stunts and some movies that influenced his own desire to become a stunt coordinator. Let's get back to the conversation with one of our callers. And just a reminder that because this is a conversation we've had previously, it means that we can't take any more of your calls today. But let's get back into our conversation about stunts with caller Jessica from Montclair, New Jersey.

A (16:55)

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I wondered if Chris could speak about the dangers and risks that stunt people face and also what protections there are in place for them if there's like a stunt person union or something like that. And also, I'm sure Chris is aware of the tragic stunt in the last Harry Potter Potter movie where Daniel Radcliffe, stunt double, did a stunt and broke his neck and, you know, was just so horrible. And I think that was the first time I really appreciated watching that documentary, how dangerous a profession this can be.

C (17:36)

Jessica, thank you so much. And it's an important element. Chris, can you talk about that a little bit? The safety precautions that go into everything.

B (17:43)

So stunt performers are members of the Screen Actors Guild. So we do have a union that we work under. And as far as stunts being dangerous, I mean, the ultimate goal is, I've said it before, is that we want to create the illusion of danger by minimizing the risks. And so we do everything we can to minimize those risks by hopefully doing proper testing, having Support from production to allow us to do the proper testing so that we basically take baby steps and we work it up to what you eventually see on the screen. We are putting ourselves in a little bit of risks. Nobody wants to ever get hurt, but we do everything we can to make that not happen. We, you know, through testing on, like the cannon roll, for instance, you know, we had a cage that was built by a special effects guy that we understood. You know, they've done that numerous times. That was a big sa safety factor. We have, you know, seat belts and. And. And containment seats, pads. We have safeties, fuel cells that keep the fuel in that kind of, you know, contain that from being a burn risk. It's just it. It is a business that looks dangerous from the outside, but it is very calculated. There are those times that things do happen, but nobody wants that to happen. And hopefully we can just properly test and take the baby steps to make it go off without a hitch. And Jessica, a little bit long winded?

C (19:31)

No, not at all. There's an enormous amount of work that it sounds like even before anyone steps on set to make sure that the baby steps are taken, like you say. And Jessica, we really appreciate the question. It looks like we've got Bobby in Union City. Who's got a favorite stuff from a movie? Bobby, what is it? Welcome to the show.

A (19:50)

Hi, good morning. Thank you for taking my call. And good morning to your guest. It's. I don't know if your guest has ever seen this movie. It's a 1974, 75 film starring John Wayne as a Seattle police detective. And the stunt I'm going to describe takes place on a beach. And John Wayne is in a car. He's being pursued by these gangsters that want to kill him. And one of the cars is a 1973 Chevy Impala. And he fires a machine gun at the driver. And the car does about six or seven flips and lands right side up all in one shot. And how it was done, I know, was that they. They didn't have, like, a ramp for the car to flip over because it takes place on a beach. So somebody got the bright idea to cut a hole in the bottom of the car, put an explosive charge in and part of a utility pole. So at a certain point, the explosives would be triggered and the piece of utility pole would go down and flip the car. If you. If anybody in the audience who's listening and has ever seen the movie, it's the highlight of the movie. And you have to wonder, how did they do that. So that's what I just wanted to mention.

C (21:06)

Bobby, thank you so much for that call. Chris, I saw you nodding your head a little bit. You familiar with that movie, that stunt?

B (21:11)

Yeah, I mentioned it. I mentioned earlier that the name of that mov is McHugh with John Wayne, and that stunt was done by Gary McLarty. And the second unit director on that movie was Ronnie Rondell, a legendary stuntman and his own. And that was kind of the big inspiration for the Fall Guy. It was, you know, we. Like I said earlier, like, it was written as a world record, but I wasn't sure if we could pull off the world record. And at least if we didn't do that, I knew it was going to pay homage to Gary McLarty, McHugh, John Wayne, Ronnie Rondell on that first cannon role ever performed in a movie.

C (21:51)

Listeners, we're talking to Chris o', Hara, the stunt designer behind the Fall Guy. It's a new movie that looks at a stunt person who is working back on the set of a film, and it looks into all of the enormous work that goes into making these stunts spectacular and safe. Chris, as we mentioned in the intro, you have the first ever credit as a stunt stunt designer. Why was that important? And how does that title differ from a stunt coordinator?

B (22:18)

It's. It's. It's very similar. And. But other than the fact that people look at stunt coordinator and they're like, oh, you coordinate the stunts well, really, Stunt designer is taking it from nothing and turning into what you see at the end product of the show. Like in. In the Fall Guy, we did a bin chase with these trash bins that. That, you know, we kind of found. That I found on a director scout down in Australia, because in Australia, those bin trucks are everywhere. So I was like, man, that would make a really interesting place to do a fight, you know. And so it was basically designed and developed from just me walking around, you know, through. Through downtown Sydney. And that's what ended up in the movie, like designing that whole sequence and that whole chase went from nothing. And the original script, it was written as something else. And. And we kind of turned into that. You know, the. The jump at the end of the movie was literally designed from a boat ride in Sydney harbor. And I saw a bridge that was like, man, we should jump that. And so then we couldn't jump that. And I basically went to Google Earth and I looked at, you know, I looked at how big the gap was, and that's kind of how, you know, the 200 and the 200 foot jump was kind of thought about, was just kind of like, man, let's do that. And kind of creative and really working hand in hand with the director to design the action sequences. And so the title, the difference between stunt coordinator and stunt designer is really trying to educate people. As far as, you know, we're just not stunt guys doing these grandiose things. There's a lot of science, there's a lot of creative aspects to what we do. And so it's just trying to educate and enlighten people to the whole big picture of what my job really is. And having this title as stunt designer is just a way of educating those people that we are creative, we are integral to the process of making movies. And this kind of leads into a little bit of the Academy Awards and kind of there's been this every year. It's like, why don't stunts have an Oscar? And so I think this is hopefully just one step because, like, there's other departments. There's production designer, which designs the whole look of the movie. There's a costume designer which designs all of the costumes for the movie, and all of those get Academy Awards. And so hopefully having this title will enlighten people in the Academy. It's like we really are integral to the whole filmmaking process and we are creative and we're not just a bunch of stunt guys just doing stunts. We are really creative to the whole film process.

C (24:51)

What would that mean to you if there was a award, an Oscar for best stunt, Best stunt designer?

B (24:59)

I think it would just be that, that, you know, getting recognized for our, our, the work that we do. And I think it's, it's really for the stunt community to just get, you know, recognized for, for the efforts that we, that we put into. The efforts that we put into to movies and really, you know, being taken, you know, just being accepted by the peers in the film industry is kind of. It would be amazing. Yeah.

C (25:27)

Are there any awards for stunt performers elsewhere in part of the world?

B (25:33)

You know, Red Bull has done a really great thing over the past, geez, I don't even know, 25 years maybe. We have something called the Red Bull Taurus Awards. And actually the Red Bull Taurus Awards are happening this Saturday out here in California. And that's something that's kind of been a very stunt specific award ceremony that Red Bull's put on for us every year. And they've been really great at supporting our industry. They also have the Red Bull Taurus foundation, which is a fund that helps support Injured stunt performers. So Red Bull's been really, really supportive over the years about our community. Wow.

C (26:12)

You know, we have so many calls that unfortunately we can't get to. There is one that I just want to summarize here. Frank in Avenel, New Jersey says favorite stunts. Zoe Bell in Death with a Golden Gun. When James Bond jumps over a bridge and the car does a twist. There are so many great stunts out there. I'm looking at the clock. We're wrapping up here. But Chris, I just wanted to ask you. Being a stunt person requires so many different skills. Like you said, jack of all trades, kind of. You have to be part professional athlete, part visionary for what looks good on film and part just really good at being an executor. What do you think really good stunt people have in common? I think at first blush, the easy answer is, oh, it appeared like you have to be fearless, but is it something different for you?

B (27:00)

No, I think it's. I think we're all professional athletes. I think we have a common goal of making it look amazing. And I think everybody in the film business all is kind of, we're like this traveling circus, this kind of. We're all very like minded in this business and, and we just want to perform and do a great job. And as a stunt performer, it's just being able to take direction and execute the plan. And again, it looks amazing, but it's well thought out and well practiced and hopefully the audience enjoys all of the hard work that stunt performers put in to entertain them.

C (27:45)

Yeah, and I want to be sure that we bring up, there's all different kinds of stunt performers, of course, as a part of the profession. Are there more stunt women now than there used to be in the past? What does that break up look like?

B (27:58)

There's definitely, there's a ton of stunt women because there's actors and actresses. So I'd probably say there's the same amount. I mean, I don't actually have factual numbers of how many stunt, you know, the breakdown is between male and female, but there's definitely, you know, actors and actresses both, you know, both do stunts and female stunt performers have the harder job because they tend to be in dresses or, you know, wardrobe that, that doesn't allow for the, you know, the pads to cover stuff. And so, you know, the stuntwoman that, that performed, my hat's off to them because they are, they are super tough, super calculated and, and they are amazing, amazing performers.

C (28:42)

That was Chris o' Hara, who received the first ever credit as a stunt designer on the film the Fall Guy, the Fall, available to rent on streaming platforms.

B (28:52)

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