Podcast Summary: "The Substance" with Makeup Artist Pierre-Olivier Persan

All Of It is a WNYC podcast hosted by Alison Stewart, focusing on culture and its creators. In the episode titled "The Substance" released on February 28, 2025, Stewart engages in an in-depth conversation with Oscar-nominated makeup artist Pierre-Olivier Persan. The episode delves into Persan's creative process, his contributions to the horror film The Substance, and the intricate world of special makeup effects in cinema.

1. Introduction to Pierre-Olivier Persan

Timestamp: [00:33]

Alison Stewart introduces Pierre-Olivier Persan, highlighting his pivotal role in bringing the film The Substance to life through exceptional special makeup effects. Persan's work was instrumental in achieving the movie's body horror aesthetic, notably transforming Demi Moore into Elizabeth Sparkle, a movie star whose body deteriorates rapidly after ingesting a mysterious black market drug. His efforts not only earned him an Oscar nomination for Best Makeup and Hairstyling but also a BAFTA win.

2. Early Passion and Career Beginnings

Timestamp: [01:48 - 02:53]

Persan shares his early fascination with makeup effects, tracing his passion back to his teenage years in the late 1980s.

Pierre Olivier Persan: "When I was 14, 15 years old, I used to have latex and plaster for Christmas and clay. I spent my teenage years making monsters in my bedroom, trying to replicate the great makeup from that time, like American Werewolf in London or Gremlins."

At 15, Persan was certain about pursuing a career in special makeup effects, a passion that has driven his artistic journey.

Pierre Olivier Persan: "When I was a teenager at the end of the 80s, I knew that I was going to be a special makeup effects artist and there was no doubt about that."

3. Getting Involved with The Substance

Timestamp: [02:58 - 04:23]

The conversation shifts to how Persan became involved with The Substance. Initially approached by the executive producer to review the script laden with prosthetics, Persan was immediately captivated by the project’s potential.

Pierre Olivier Persan: "I read the script and I was like, oh, that's incredible. That's terrific. I have to do that movie. So I was the one crawling back at him saying, oh, I have to. Please let me do the movie."

4. Interpreting the Script and Director’s Vision

Timestamp: [04:23 - 05:52]

Persan discusses the importance of collaborating closely with director Coralie Farja to understand her creative vision. This collaboration was crucial in translating the written script into tangible makeup effects that aligned with the narrative’s demands.

Pierre Olivier Persan: "You read the script, but that's only a start. You really need to understand what's inside the director's mind. Sometimes you think something very big in the movie, but the director will say, it's going to last only a few seconds."

5. Emphasis on Practical Effects

Timestamp: [05:12 - 05:52]

A significant portion of the episode examines the preference for practical effects over digital ones. Persan emphasizes the tactile authenticity that practical effects bring to the film, enhancing the audience's connection to the on-screen transformations.

Pierre Olivier Persan: "When she was watching the movie, she wanted to touch what she was seeing on screen. That was the whole point, to have a very organic journey in a way, while watching the movie."

6. Detailed Breakdown of Key Scenes

a. The Back Birthing Scene

Timestamp: [05:52 - 07:09]

One of the standout moments discussed is the back birthing scene, where Elizabeth Sparkle gives birth to a monster. Persan elaborates on the combination of silicone dummies, raised sets, and large prosthetics used to create the horrifying effect.

Pierre Olivier Persan: "We used different kinds of makeup effects for that. Silicon dummies, raised sets, and big prosthetics to achieve the rippling effect and the back splitting open."

b. Aging Effect on Elizabeth Sparkle

Timestamp: [09:48 - 11:36]

The discussion moves to the portrayal of rapid aging, beginning with minor changes like Elizabeth’s finger and escalating throughout the film. Persan explains the balance between realism and fantasy, incorporating research on aging while allowing creative liberties to enhance the horror element.

Pierre Olivier Persan: "We researched the effect of aging on full bodies, looked at real people with hunchbacks, and then came up with our own design to balance believability with creative freedom."

7. Techniques for Continuity in Makeup

Timestamp: [11:36 - 12:44]

A listener’s question about maintaining makeup continuity is addressed by Persan, who details the process of creating molds and silicone appliances to ensure consistency across multiple shooting days.

Pierre Olivier Persan: "We cast silicone appliances from molds made from the initial sculpture. This allows us to apply the same makeup every day, maintaining continuity throughout the shoot."

8. Challenges of Actor Experience with Prosthetics

Timestamp: [08:32 - 09:48]

The episode touches on the physical demands placed on actors during makeup application. Persan discusses the careful balance between technical precision and empathy, ensuring actors remain comfortable and supported during long and intensive makeup sessions.

Pierre Olivier Persan: "We have to be very aware of the actors' comfort. If something feels wrong, we take a break. It's about respecting the actors as sensitive human beings while focusing on the technical aspects of our work."

9. Creating Iconic Effects: The Ear Falling Off

Timestamp: [12:44 - 13:23]

Alison Stewart references a specific effect where Elizabeth’s ear falls off, prompting Persan to explain the techniques used, including the strategic placement of prosthetics and camera angles to achieve the desired impact.

Pierre Olivier Persan: "We glue down the ear and cover it with an appliance. Camera angles play a significant role in making the effect believable without giving away too much."

10. The Monster Suit and Performance

Timestamp: [13:23 - 14:12]

The conversation concludes with insights into the creation of the giant monster creature. Persan explains the decision to use Margaret Qualley inside the suit for close-up performances, ensuring the tragic emotion of the character is effectively conveyed through expressive eyes.

Pierre Olivier Persan: "We used Margaret for the close-ups because her performance brings out the tragic aspects of the monster. Seeing her eyes helps the audience connect with the character's emotions."

Conclusion

In this episode of All Of It, Alison Stewart and Pierre-Olivier Persan explore the intricate art of special makeup effects in horror cinema. Persan’s dedication to practical effects, his collaborative approach with directors, and his technical expertise shine through as he shares behind-the-scenes insights into The Substance. The discussion not only highlights the creative challenges and solutions in makeup artistry but also underscores the emotional and physical nuances involved in bringing complex characters to life on screen.

Notable Quotes:

• Pierre Olivier Persan at [01:48]: "When I was 14, 15 years old, I used to have latex and plaster for Christmas and clay. I spent my teenage years making monsters in my bedroom."

• Pierre Olivier Persan at [04:23]: "You read the script, but that's only a start. You really need to understand what's inside the director's mind."

• Pierre Olivier Persan at [05:12]: "When she was watching the movie, she wanted to touch what she was seeing on screen."

• Pierre Olivier Persan at [11:36]: "We cast silicone appliances from molds made from the initial sculpture. This allows us to apply the same makeup every day."

• Pierre Olivier Persan at [13:42]: "Seeing her eyes helps the audience connect with the character's emotions."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, providing listeners and non-listeners alike with a clear understanding of Pierre-Olivier Persan’s contributions to The Substance and the broader landscape of special makeup effects in film.