Alyson Stewart (2:37)

Listeners, we want you to join this conversation. Who is an important teacher in your life? Someone that had a profound impact on who you are today. Take a moment now to shout them out. Give us a call at 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Could it be a preschool teacher, a high school teacher, a piano teacher, a professor? Anybody you want to shout out? We want to hear about a teacher who means a lot to you. What lesson did you take from them? Our number is 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692. My guest is playwright Sarah Rule. We're speaking about her new book, Lessons from My Teachers from Preschool to the Present. It's interesting because it is a memoir of your life. Why do you think one's teachers is a good lens to for a memoir?

Sarah Ruhl (3:28)

Well, it just interested me what one's life would look like as a kind of sketch or portrait of one's teachers. I guess I believe that we're formed in relationship to others. And so part of growth in a life is what lessons you're learning from all kinds of teachers. And so to kind of chart growth through that lens was fascinating to me and maybe felt a little less self absorbed. I mean, I've written another memoir called Smile, which is a great book that was about having facial paralysis. So that was sort of the lens of the body. And this is just a different way of looking at it.

Alyson Stewart (4:12)

It's so interesting. So I sat down to read like, oh, I'll read a couple of them. And I read the whole book.

Sarah Ruhl (4:15)

Oh, that's so lovely.

Alyson Stewart (4:16)

Like, it just keeps going because they're short. They're short essays and they each have something special about them. Can I, can I ask you about the organization of the book? Sure. Like, how did you decide it was interesting? Because some of the essays are long, some of them are on a page. It's a very interesting mix of language.

Sarah Ruhl (4:34)

Well, I think I started with certain tentpole essays and teachers that were just incredibly important to me that I knew had to be there. So my mother obviously had to be there. My teacher Paula Vogel had to be there. And then it was a question of sort of filling in gaps and thinking of different turning points in my life. And I mean, I'm sure they're teachers I left out by accident who are in the acknowledgments and not in the book, just because there isn't a particular story that had imprinted on me. So I suppose it's chronological, but also how memory shaped some kind of lesson through a story.

Alyson Stewart (5:16)

You also have this broader definition, teachers. When did that become clear?

Sarah Ruhl (5:22)

Let's see. That's such a good question. I mean, I knew I wanted to write about my children because they teach me so much. And clearly I'm not in the classroom learning from my children. And I knew, for example, that I wanted to write about my student, Max Ritfo, who was in the classroom but was my student and became my teacher. So I knew that there was a porousness. And I also feel deeply that even. Even my playwriting mentors, like Paula Vogel, some of the deep lessons she's taught me were not inside the classroom. They were sort of watching her live her life as I got to know her outside of the classroom. So I think it was fairly early that I knew it needed to be expansive.

Alyson Stewart (6:07)

You also noted that you longed for your teachers when you spent time on your phone. Would you explain that?

Sarah Ruhl (6:14)

Yeah, I think I went through a dark period. I can't be the only one around about 2015, 2016, and a feeling of loneliness and a feeling of confusion. I'd had some health troubles. I'd had some work struggles. Politics was grim. And I just felt like I was looking for answers on my phone. And I feel like I should know better, but I don't. And so I would just sit on my phone at night, feeling waves of panic and just seeing what op ed on my phone would tell me the riddle, would tell me things would be all right, would tell me the answer, and it just didn't. And so I think looking back at lessons from real live teachers felt really nourishing to me. And one thing that was great about the process of writing the book is I would spend time with former teachers, and I would also be sure that I sent them each essay after I had written it. And that became one of the best things about the book for me personally.

Alyson Stewart (7:18)

Let's take a few calls. Let's talk to Spencer, who's calling from Westchester County. Hi, Spencer. Thanks for calling, all of it. You're on the air.

Spencer (7:26)

Hi, how are you today?

Alyson Stewart (7:28)

Doing great.

Spencer (7:29)

Good, good. Thank you. So I'll be brief, but there are two teachers I want to cite. One is my father, my late father, who basically instilled in me what I believe to be really good habits as far as just how to be a man, how to treat people properly. And these are the types of habits which, in my opinion, transcend both my professional and personal life. And they've been my guiding light over the years. And then in a more literal sense, I'm a graduate of SUNY Oneonta, upstate New York. I had A grammar professor in my junior year named Robert Wheeler, who unfortunately is no longer with us. But I was always a writer. I don't write professionally any longer, but what he taught me in that classroom, as far as the way to simply write, use punctuation, syntax, grammar, has really followed me throughout my lifetime. And I really, truly believe that communication is one of the most important skills we can master today, whether it's verbally or on paper. I think, unfortunately, there's. There's too little of that today, as some of us might agree. But my ability to communicate effectively, I trace it all the way Back to age 21 with Robert Wheeler.

Alyson Stewart (8:48)

Thanks for making the call. Let's talk to Jenny, who's calling in from Manhattan. Hi, Jenny. Thanks so much for making the time to call all of it. Today. You're on the air.

Sarah Ruhl (8:57)

Hi. I am so excited to shout out the best teacher I've ever had. Her name is Irina Akulenko, and she is actually a fusion belly dance teacher. She puts so much work into her classes. Like, it's so obvious coming into her class. She builds the movement in these incredibly unique ways, and she's helped me find a relationship with my body that is completely unique. And it's both my mind and my body. It's amazing.

Alyson Stewart (9:30)

Thank you so much for shouting her out. We appreciate that. In the book, you say your mom was your first teacher, and she said the most important lesson that she said is to live in the moment. It's something that a lot of us struggle with. How did your mother instill in you the ability to live in the moment?

Sarah Ruhl (9:51)

My mom is an actress, and she was also an English teacher at Regina Dominican High School in Illinois. And she is one of the most in the moment people I know. And I don't know how she got to be that way or if it's just intrinsic, but she's incredibly spontaneous. She's a really good listener. She loves being in dialogue with people. She really listens to them. And so I think it was by example that she taught me this lesson.

Alyson Stewart (10:20)

Can you think of a time when you were falling out of the moment and you came right back to it?

Sarah Ruhl (10:24)

Ooh, that's such a good question. I mean, every day. Yeah, every day at rehearsal. I mean, it's interesting. I'm working on a play, Eurydice, right now at Signature Theater, and it's my only job in rehearsal, is really to be present and to listen to what the actors are doing. And there will be moments where I feel pulled towards my phone to do some stupid Logistical task. And then I see one of the actors, like Maya Hawke, do something incredibly spontaneous in tech, which tech is just this long, you know, logistical womb, like, environment where you're just sitting for long periods of time. And I'll see one of the actors spontaneously dance or say the line a new way. And I'm back. I'm back in the present moment.

Alyson Stewart (11:12)

My guest is Sarah Rule. We're speaking about her new book, Lessons from My Teachers From Preschool to the Present. We'll have more of your calls and more with Sarah after a quick break. This is all of it. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Steward. My guest in studio is playwright Sarah Rule. We're talking about her new book, Lessons from My Teachers From Preschool to the Present. One name that comes up again and again in your book is Paula Vogel. She's an amazing professor. What do you remember about your first impression of Paula?

Sarah Ruhl (11:53)

I remember it very clearly. It was an advanced playwriting class at Brown, and Paula was so passionate about something. She fell on her knees to talk about something and raise her fist to the sky. And I thought, this is the first genius I have ever met. I mean, she was just a force of nature. And I wasn't preparing myself to be a playwright. I just wanted to be a writer, full stop. And I had come back from England and asked Paula to advise my thesis on, like, representations of the actress in the 19th century novel. I wanted to sort of write poetry and then maybe teach. And Paula said, well, I can't advise that thesis. That's not my wheelhouse. But. But if you write a play, I'll be your thesis advisor. And that was it. That changed the direction of my life.

Alyson Stewart (12:40)

What does she teach you about? That has nothing to do with playwriting.

Sarah Ruhl (12:45)

Oh, gosh. She's taught me how to smoke a cigar. She's taught me about bravery and generosity. I mean, she's such a generous person. I remember after I'd gotten my mfa, I had a kidney infection, pyelonephritis. And I was looking sort of gray and ash, and I wasn't getting better. And Paula said, you need to see an acupuncturist or some other kind of doctor. You're not getting better. And I was like, ooh, I can't really afford to do that. And she slipped a check for $500 under my door and said, look, she knew I probably wouldn't accept it. And she said, look, you have to accept it because a Woman gave me $500 back in the day when my partner, who had Ms. Had health difficulty and we couldn't pay. And I've just been recirculating that ever since. And it was that story that allowed me to take her gift and use it.

Alyson Stewart (13:42)

Did you get any advice from her on how to deal with critics of your work?

Sarah Ruhl (13:47)

Yes, critics and rejection both. I mean, I think when you have a life and show business, as it were, you have to develop a relationship with criticism and rejection.

Alyson Stewart (13:58)

And.

Sarah Ruhl (13:59)

And Paula used to say, she used to break it down and say, there are three kinds of rejection letters. One is just a Xerox form, so you get that. Okay. But one is signed, and you should feel really excited about that. And you should lick your finger and test the ink and say, oh, I got a signed rejection letter. Only like 30% of people get that. And then you'll get a rejection letter that says, we didn't want your play, but we want to meet you. She said, only 1% of rejection letters are that. So it was almost like she vaccinated me, you know, like I felt inoculated. I felt like, okay, I can receive 20 rejection letters and parse them and feel good about some of them.

Alyson Stewart (14:38)

What's funny, she told you to take your finger, lick your finger to find out if the.

Sarah Ruhl (14:43)

If it was a really sign. I guess with email that doesn't work.

Alyson Stewart (14:47)

Let's take some more calls. Laura is calling for more. And hi, Laura, thanks so much for calling all of it. You're on the air.

Laura (14:54)

Okay, thank you so much. I appreciate the show. Yeah, I wanted to say that definitely my major teacher was my mother. I am a semi retired physician. I spent a lot of my time with medical education, so I'm a teacher too. And I hadn't been planning to be a physician, but my mother got cancer when I was 16 and her journey definitely changed my life. And, and the first thing I learned from her was not to ask people, how are you? She was getting radiation therapy and she said, that nurse. And I thought, goodness, what did that nurse do? And the nurse had said, how are you? Greeting her. And it was like, she should know that I don't feel good. But the social expectation is to say, fine. And that's one of the things I always taught my students when I was teaching them about patient interactions is you don't know how they're feeling, so don't say, how are you? And then that kind of makes them feel fine when they probably aren't fine, you know, depending on the situation. So I learned a lot from her about you know how to be sick and how to die.

Alyson Stewart (16:07)

Thank you so much for calling. This says my 5th grade teacher was the first person in my life to spark creativity within me, which led to self confidence. I entered her class as a boy who couldn't speak without stuttering like Porky Pig. Her nurturing was such that by the end of the school year, I was hardly stuttering anymore. Do you remember an early teacher you had?

Sarah Ruhl (16:29)

Oh, I remember all of them. One was Meg Boland, who was my third grade teacher. And I revered Meg Boland. And I got to know her as an adult too. And in fact, I sent her a copy of the book and she corrected the grammar very quickly while she was having a difficult medical procedure and sent it back to me. And she was amazing.

Alyson Stewart (16:54)

Let's talk to Tina. Hi. Hi, Tina. Thanks for calling, all of it.

Tina (16:58)

Hi, thanks for taking my call. I wanted to share a kind of full circle story. Shout out to Betty Wilson of Marin County. When I was a teen. I left home at 14, but ended up going to community college and took interior design with her. And she ended up submitting my portfolio without me knowing to cca. And I won a merit scholarship and went on to become an architect. I got my at Columbia and I ended up teaching years later, interiors and architecture. And there was one student who really wanted to be an architect. And so I encouraged her. And she wrote me this letter thanking me for encouraging her. That same year, I was taking the ferry back home and. And I ran into Betty Wilson and I got to thank her personally. And I was just so, so touched what she gave me without even ever knowing it. And she remembered me, but she didn't know what she had done.

Sarah Ruhl (18:04)

So that's so meaningful. And I have to say that's one thing I really noticed when I wrote the book, is that when I did send my essays to thank my teachers, many of them hadn't been thanked before, and many of them didn't realize what an impact they'd had. And I was shocked. Like, I thanked my piano teacher and she, gosh, I sometimes wonder if I make an impact. And I was like, oh, my God, are you crazy? You're a complete icon. You've impacted so many people. And I think because teachers are so important to us, we almost assimilate them into our sort of brains and hearts and imaginations such that we forget they're separate people who we could write a thank you letter to.

Alyson Stewart (18:42)

Let's talk to Shelley calling from Westport. Hi, Shelley, thanks for calling, all of it. You're on the air.

Shelley (18:48)

Oh, thank you for providing so much programming on such a variety of aspects. I'm calling today to shout out Marjorie Mazier Guthrie, a phenomenal dance teacher who started her school in Sheepshead Bay because her husband, Woody Guthrie, was unable to support the family any longer. So her dance studio welcomed students. I was with her for 10 years or more. She not only taught us how to dance, she taught us how to breathe. She taught us how to respect our bodies. She taught us how to stand up and be beautiful. And the skills she gave us, mostly based on Martha Graham technique, they're applicable throughout life. And I am just so grateful that she gave so much of herself to so many of us.

Alyson Stewart (19:41)

Thank you so much for sharing that story. Let's talk to Charles from the Upper west side. Hi, Charles. Thank you so much for calling all of it. Hi.

Charles (19:48)

Thank you very much. I have three folks that I like very much. First of all, my mother was a Pentecostal minister who taught me that peace is the greatest thing you have. The trick is learning how to hold on to it and that the smallest things never be afraid of them. They can turn into something bigger. Had a teacher at pet named Jimmy Grasha, lives in Connecticut. He showed me how. He teased me and said I didn't know how well I could draw. And he would laugh and say, he told me how to draw the total space. And he'd say, I wish I needed to be able to see the total space. And when I learned how to see total space, he told me he couldn't make the a dark enough. And then I got to draw the insides of St. John's Cathedral, the pulpit for like a couple of years. Became an artist in residence there. And then one year I met for history teacher. History teacher. I pretended Mr. Patoukis.

Alyson Stewart (20:38)

Yeah.

Charles (20:39)

I met the curate at the Frick Museum, and I asked him, can I copy a Rembrandt? But my teacher told me I do too well with copy. And he let me draw the garden court. And one day he brought one of the Frick sisters down in a wheelchair to meet me. So I got to meet a real Frick sister. So that's my story, and thank you for letting me tell it.

Alyson Stewart (20:57)

Appreciate it, Charles. Thank you so much. You cite as one of your teachers, Sarah, your dog Minerva.

Sarah Ruhl (21:07)

Yes.

Alyson Stewart (21:08)

Tell us about Minerva, please.

Sarah Ruhl (21:09)

I feel like dogs know everything. In particular, Minerva. And I feel like their lessons are so simple and some of them are like, be aware of exits and entrances. They're important when someone comes home. It's important when someone leaves, it's important. Demonstrate your love to people. It's important. I mean, I could go on and on. Life is better with dogs.

Alyson Stewart (21:34)

Next, let's talk to Colleen. Hi, Colleen. Thanks for calling all of it.

Colleen (21:39)

Hi, Allison. Longtime listener and big fan. And I love the story about Minerva. I could have made this whole call about my. It's so ironic to have heard this question because literally a couple of days ago, I thought of my second grade teacher, Mrs. Wolf, and went to look her up online. Didn't find her, but I thought this might be a nice way to honor her. In second grade, I was very vivid memory of building blocks on a desk table, and I had a bully in the class, and that bully came and knocked my blocks down. And I was crying, and Mrs. Wolf came over and just led by beautiful examples, she sat down and she just started building that black tower back up with me. There was no sculling. There was no comforting of me, you know, none of the. No crying or anything like that. She just did what was right. And, you know, though my mother, which shout out mom and Happy Early Mother's Day, she was the core of teaching me about kindness. Mrs. Wolf really just led by example. And it's something that I hold with me still to this day about looking for people who are on the outside and bringing them into the center of focus and making them feel welcome. Thanks.

Alyson Stewart (22:58)

Thank you so much for calling in. We do appreciate that. Before you go, you mentioned it earlier. You've got a play up at the Signature Theater, May 13. Tell us about it quickly.

Sarah Ruhl (23:09)

Well, it's an older play of mine called Eurydice. It's a revival, and it's about the Orpheus myth, but told through Eurydice's point of view. And she meets her father in the underworld, who's played by Brian d' Arcy James, who's incredible. And Maya Hawke gets to play Eurydice, and I'm really excited to revisit it and share the play again.

Alyson Stewart (23:32)

What should we take away from all of these lessons? We've heard from our callers, we've heard from you. What do you think we should take away from these lessons and put them into the world?

Sarah Ruhl (23:40)

Well, we heard a lot of callers talk about kindness, which I think is so important, and also the lessons that are taught implicitly and explicitly. Like, I think the block story was so beautiful because teachers teach not only content, they teach us math or grammar, but they also, by example, teach us how to be a person. So. And they might not even remember those lessons that they're modeling all the time. So I guess one of my lessons I took away was to thank our teachers and also to always orient ourselves as students in the world as best we can.

Alyson Stewart (24:17)

The name of the book is Lessons from My Teachers. It is by Sarah Rule. Sarah, thank you so much for making the time to be with us today.

Sarah Ruhl (24:25)

Thank you for having me. It was such a pleasure.

Alyson Stewart (24:28)

There is more, all of it on the way. Stay tuned. It's coming up after the news.

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