Podcast Summary: All Of It – The Twenty-Year Fight for a Free Press in Afghanistan

Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Guest: Saad Mohsini, founder of MOBY Group, author of Radio Free: A 21-Year Odyssey for an Independent Voice in Kabul
Air Date: September 26, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode features Saad Mohsini, founder of Afghanistan’s largest independent media group, MOBY Group, discussing his new memoir and the persistent struggle for a free press in Afghanistan. Host Alison Stewart explores with Mohsini the challenges, risks, and remarkable transformations involved in building independent media throughout changing regimes, wars, and censorship—including the most recent Taliban return to power. The conversation centers on the resilience of Afghan journalists, the suppression and resistance of women in media, and the ongoing importance of media in shaping Afghanistan’s future.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Afghanistan's Media Landscape: Then & Now

• Pre-2002:

  • Virtually no independent media. Only state-run Radio TV Afghanistan (RTA), which had been silenced for five years during Taliban rule.

    “There was nothing. There was this state broadcaster called Radio TV Afghanistan… even the RTA had been silenced for five years of the Taliban Rule. But so it was sort of very underdeveloped…” (Saad Mohsini, 02:47)

• After 2002:

  • The launch of MOBY Group by Mohsini and his siblings pioneered independent licenses, setting a precedent. Later, “2, 300 licenses were issued for both television and radio.” (03:57)

2. The Drive to Launch Independent Media

• Motivation came from a desire to give Afghans—especially the young—a voice, using formats popular globally (music, news, call-ins).
• Mohsini and siblings returned from exile hoping to “contribute something” as passive investors, but media “dragged us into the business and then we couldn’t leave.” (05:17–05:53)
• Controversy:
  • The mere act of playing music or having women hosts “laughing” was deeply controversial post-Taliban.

    “Music. Why are women in the studio? Why are they laughing? Why are they joking?... Everything.” (Saad Mohsini, 06:03)

3. Women in Afghan Media

• Female journalists faced, and still face, major restrictions (must cover faces, are ignored by officials, screamed at).

  “They have to wear a surgical mask to cover their faces. People don’t take their phone calls, they’re screamed at... but they keep going. This is what’s extraordinary.” (Saad Mohsini, 07:26–08:19)

• Despite recent bans, MOBY Group increased the quota for female journalists: “We’ve gone from eight journalists to 20 journalists the last three years.” (07:26)

4. Audience Reception & Expansion

• The hunger for new media was so high that MOBY’s test signals alone generated massive buzz.

  “The radio station, we had these test signals for a couple of weeks … my brother rang me up and said… these things are out of control... There was this huge appetite for the things we were doing.” (08:57)

5. Pushback, Risk, and Taliban Repression

• Describes a 2022 Taliban raid on MOBY’s Kabul office for continued broadcasting of banned Turkish soap operas—showcasing persistent government censorship and personal risk.

  “We kept on airing it… and then they raided our offices and they took a couple of our guys away. And then they said, you can’t report on this.” (10:23) “We thought, well, stuff this. We have to report on this. It’s newsworthy.” (11:02)

• Pushing the envelope means finding ways to report sensitive stories—sometimes by working pragmatically with more open-minded Taliban members, but always “like a tug of war.” (12:13)

6. Covering Gender Issues Under Repression

• MOBY has produced thousands of stories supporting girls’ education, sometimes highlighting Taliban insiders who favor reform.

  “We identify individuals from within the Taliban conservatives who actually advocate for girls education. So that’s the way that you pursue the story.” (13:14)

• The Taliban accuses them of trying to “divide” the movement, yet Mohsini notes many Taliban do want education for their daughters. He argues for engagement, not legitimization:

  “No country on the planet will accept these types of bans. Not even Iran, not Saudi Arabia.” (14:00)

7. Safety & Isolation of Journalists

• After the international withdrawal, journalists now “have none” of the protections or support structures previously available.

  “It’s so scary. I mean, we’re completely, totally exposed.” (15:18)

8. Personal Motivation & Resilience

• The love for Afghanistan—and the oral, cultural tradition—was instilled by Mohsini’s parents:

  “But I also have really fond memories of my childhood in Afghanistan… Even now, I think that people will experience that warmth…” (16:25–17:58)

• Afghanistan’s uniqueness and resilience, both as a place and a people, defies easy explanation.

9. The Future of Independent Journalism in Afghanistan

• Majority of the Afghan population is under 20; they are “very different to the Afghans of 2001.”
• The current regime must now rule a transformed country, and Mohsini is optimistic that youth and media can bring change—even if gradual:

  “Who will change who? Will we change them or will they change us?” (18:12)

• Despite being out of the headlines, maintaining media operations is critical so “the world can see what’s going on in the place.” (18:12–19:27)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the fight for a license:

  “I had a folder and I was going from office to office trying to secure that license… I was literally kicked out of his office. He said, get lost, I don’t want to see your face again.” (03:10, 03:24)

• On controversy and change:

  “Every man has a bit of the Taliban in them.” (06:03)

• On female journalists' courage:

  “They keep going. This is what’s extraordinary. There’s enormous courage from these young women.” (08:19)

• On pushing oppressive systems:

  “You do it in a way that you can get away with it, I think that’s probably the best way of doing it.” (11:39)

• On Afghanistan’s spirit:

  “The sky is so high... It’s a place where you feel free. It’s a mountainous country. The people are very … There’s something confident about the people. A country that was never colonized.” (16:25–17:58)

• On the crucial role of journalists:

  “It’s important for us also to get the news out for the world to see what’s going on in the place.” (19:12)

Important Timestamps

• Background & Landscape: 02:47–03:57
• Motivation and Early Challenges: 04:09–06:03
• Women in Journalism: 07:12–08:19
• Audience Expansion: 08:53–09:31
• Clash with the Taliban (2022): 10:09–11:32
• Pushback Strategies: 12:07–13:11
• Gender Issues Coverage: 13:11–14:00
• Journalist Protections: 15:05–15:58
• Personal Reflections: 16:25–17:58
• The Future of Afghan Media: 18:03–19:27

Tone & Language

The conversation is honest, urgent, and reflective—combining Mohsini’s pragmatic perspective as a media entrepreneur with a deep nostalgia and hope for Afghanistan. Hard truths about risk and oppression are balanced by consistent optimism and belief in young Afghans’ resilience.

For Further Listening/Reading

• Saad Mohsini’s memoir: Radio Free: A 21-Year Odyssey for an Independent Voice in Kabul
• Coverage and archives of Arman FM and Tolo News