Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Episode: The Whitney Investigates the 60s Through Surrealism
Host: David Fuerst (in for Alison Stewart)
Date: September 24, 2025
Guests: Dan Nadella & Laura Phipps (curators, Whitney Museum of American Art)
Topic: 60s Surreal—a major new exhibition at the Whitney exploring the profound impact of surrealism on American art and culture in the 1960s.

Episode Overview

This episode explores the Whitney Museum's new exhibition, 60s Surreal, which argues that surrealism—often overshadowed by Pop art—was a defining force in American cultural and artistic transformation during the 1960s. Co-curators Dan Nadella and Laura Phipps join to discuss how the show reframes our understanding of the era, the diversity of artists included, and the surprising, destabilizing power of the surreal in a decade marked by upheaval and innovation.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

What Is Surrealism?

• Origins and Essence:
  • Surrealism originated between World Wars I and II in Paris, aiming to access the unconscious for radical ideas about protest, sexuality, and dreams.
    [Dan Nadella | 01:09]:

    "It was really about accessing the unconscious to come up with radical ideas about protest and sexuality and dreams and all the things possible from sort of from a dream state and things we wouldn't otherwise imagine."

• Aesthetic Qualities:
  • Surrealism is challenging to define—a kind of "groundwater" in culture, seeping into various forms and often manifesting as collages of unexpected ideas.
    [Laura Phipps | 01:45]:

    "The aesthetics of sort of historic surrealism, this idea of collage putting together ideas that maybe were unconsciously accessed, comes out in different ways for artists of the 1960s."

Surrealism’s Journey from Paris to America

• After WWII, surrealism captivated filmmakers, musicians, graphic designers, etc.
  • Examples: Hitchcock working with Salvador Dalí, 1950s sci-fi and romance films, covers and illustrations leveraging dreamlike motifs.
    [Dan Nadella | 02:50]:

    "It was catnip for filmmakers and graphic designers and illustrators and writers and musicians after World War II."

Why Did Surrealism Catch on in U.S. Culture?

• Post-war disorientation and need for a "release valve"; pop culture moments themselves could be surreal (e.g., Elvis Presley’s TV debut).
  [Dan Nadella | 03:34]:

  "People needed a release valve and to feel like the strangeness of what they'd just been through might be reflected in the art and the culture they were absorbing."

Exhibition Overview & Notable Artists

• 60s Surreal features 100+ American artists working in diverse media—inclusive of well-known names (Faith Ringgold, Diane Arbus) and less-explored experimental figures.
  • Aims to reframe "the American 1960s" by juxtaposing known and unknown artists, filmmakers, and mediums.
    [Laura Phipps | 05:16]:

    "We have so many different mediums within any particular gallery, but we're including works of, say, filmmakers Gunvor Nelson and Dorothy Wylie in a gallery also with James Rosenquist."

• Surprising gallery pairings are designed to reveal shared interests in mass media, domestic life, and the surreal.

Curatorial Process and Storytelling

• Historic research on exhibitions from 1958–1972 informed selection, focused on complementarity and dialogue among artists rather than just "greatest hits."
  [Dan Nadella | 07:13]:

  "It was about finding the right combinations of artists to speak to one another across time, really, and across space. So it became less about assembling the greatest hits... and more about assembling a really interesting group of voices that could kind of sing together."

Time Frame: Why 1958–1972?

• Encapsulates "the long 60s"—from late 1950s aesthetic shifts (e.g., Beat influence) through a gradual move away from surrealist approaches in the early 1970s.
  [Laura Phipps | 08:50]:

  "You have to create limits in a show this large."

What to Expect in the Exhibition

• Signature Entry Piece:
  • Three hyperrealistic camel sculptures by Nancy Graves—a nod to both the strange and the familiar.
    [Laura Phipps | 09:51]:

    "They come across as real live camels in the gallery, but they are actually sculptures... For Dan and I... really sets the stage for the understanding of this show as something other than historic surrealism."

• Destabilizing the Familiar:
  • Part of the curators’ mission is to leave visitors unsettled and ready to experience something new, “destabilizing and fun and interesting and kind of mind blowing at times.”
    [Dan Nadella | 11:09]:

    "Camels look strange... encountering these things also, what would they be doing in an art museum?"

A Revisionist Survey—Shifting the Canon

• The show challenges the text-book focus on Pop, Minimalism, and Conceptual Art, revealing broader creative undercurrents.
  [Laura Phipps | 12:11]:

  "And this show is really an attempt to look at what those other things are... just see what it was that artists were making that isn't categorized by art history necessarily."

Why Were the 60s So Fertile for Surrealism?

• A youth boom, massive expansion of higher education, new social freedoms, and revolutionary movements for civil rights and sexual liberation all set the stage. The irrational, unconventional, and surreal became natural languages for expressing change. [Dan Nadella | 13:13]:

  "Everything was up for grabs. You know, religion, civil rights, protest. All these things were happening all at once. And so how. How better to deal with that than to express the kind of irrationality of it all in visual art and 60s."

• Parallels drawn to contemporary moments—“the 2000s, pretty surreal as well.”
  [Laura Phipps | 14:41]:

  "It's always interesting to see the way that history repeats itself or the lessons that have or haven't been learned."

Companion Playlist—The Soundtrack of Surreal

• Curators assembled a playlist echoing the exhibition's spirit:
  • Artists include Miles Davis, Jimi Hendrix, The Doors, Townes Van Zant, and The Burrito Brothers—tracks that are surreal, experimental, or cross-genre in character.
    [Dan Nadella | 15:28]:

    "A fun playlist of everybody from Miles Davis to Jimi Hendrix to the Doors to Townes Van Zant... that often have surreal lyrics or are coming from across genre, across the spectrum of genres."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Even if you think about somebody like Elvis Presley suddenly appearing on television, that in itself was a kind of surreal moment."
  — Dan Nadella | 03:34

• "You get off of the elevator, and this is what sort of confronts you. These three incredible sculptures that... really sets the stage for the understanding of this show as something other than historic surrealism."
  — Laura Phipps | 09:51

• "Camels look strange. Let's not kid ourselves... encountering these things also, what would they be doing in an art museum... we want people to be slightly destabilized and realize that this is not art historical surrealism. This is us telling you, get ready."
  — Dan Nadella | 11:09

• "It's always interesting to see the way that history repeats itself or the lessons that have or haven't been learned... these artists from the 1960s are actually giving us new ways to imagine moving forward from our own moment as well."
  — Laura Phipps | 14:41

• "A really interesting group of voices that could kind of sing together, but, you know, sometimes they harmonize and sometimes it's a little dissonant. And that's the beauty of it."
  — Dan Nadella | 07:13

Important Timestamps

• Surrealism—What Is It? [01:09–02:32]
• Surrealism from Europe to America [02:32–03:30]
• Why Surrealism Caught On [03:30–04:26]
• Exhibition Features and Selection [05:16–07:13]
• Curatorial Process [07:13–08:38]
• Time Frame Rationale [08:38–09:46]
• Signature Camel Sculptures [09:51–11:09]
• Revisionist Survey/Expanded Canon [12:01–12:52]
• 1960s Surrealism's Cultural Resonance [13:13–15:15]
• Companion Playlist Details [15:15–15:52]

Tone and Takeaway

The discussion is accessible, witty, and thoroughly engaged with both art history and contemporary relevance. The curators encourage destabilization and reconsideration, inviting visitors and listeners to see the 1960s—and their own time—through fresh, surrealist eyes.

Exhibition Info:
60s Surreal is on view at the Whitney Museum through January 19th, 2026.

This summary conveys the core substance, fresh perspectives, and vivid atmosphere of the episode, making it ideal for listeners who want a thoughtful, comprehensive grasp of the conversation.