Podcast Summary: "The World According to Joan Didion"

Podcast: All Of It with Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Episode Date: December 6, 2023
Guest: Evelyn McDonnell, author of The World According to Joan Didion
Theme: A deep dive into Joan Didion’s legacy, the nature of her writing, her personal and political evolution, and the ways her life and work continue to resonate.

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Alison Stewart sits down with journalist and author Evelyn McDonnell to discuss her new book, The World According to Joan Didion. The conversation goes beyond traditional biography, using Didion’s life, writing process, and influence as a lens for exploring the evolution of American journalism, cultural observation, and personal transformation. Listeners are invited to share their own Didion stories, reinforcing the communal aspect of Didion’s cultural impact.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Genesis and Structure of the Project

• McDonnell’s book is not a chronological biography but is structured around themes ("Snake," "Typewriter," "Stingray," "Jogger") representing pivotal places and ideas in Didion’s life.
• Initial Concept: McDonnell began the project while Didion was still alive but found the real narrative arc—and public appetite—in the wake of her death.

  “It was an idea that we were batting around a few years ago now, of trying to understand why she had this incredible staying power that actually seemed to be growing...[After she passed] we said, okay, now it's a narrative arc.” (04:04–04:56)

Didion’s Enduring Appeal and Evolution

• Didion’s resonance with new generations is attributed to both her quotable prose and the relevancy of her observations, evidenced by trends on TikTok and BookTok.
• McDonnell highlights the transformative arc of Didion’s writing and politics: from a "Goldwater Republican" background in Sacramento to writing progressive critiques from Manhattan.

  “Understanding how she had some reckonings in her own life and how she transformed and how her writing transformed...back to the more personal style after the deaths of her husband and daughter.” (06:10–07:53)

The Research Journey

• McDonnell’s work involved deep archival research, including Didion’s handwritten notes, previously unpublished essays, and correspondence.
• She describes the meticulous revision process visible in Didion’s drafts, debunking the myth of the effortless genius.

  “Did that burst fully formed from her head? And it did not. She really did go through and just refine, refine, refine...There was a lot of editing.” (10:22–11:29)

Didion on Writing and Observing

• Didion viewed writing as a means to actively understand the world—a view that profoundly impacted McDonnell and other writers.

  “I write in order to understand what I think.” – Joan Didion, cited by McDonnell (12:21–12:26)

• Didion’s talent for observation extended beyond the visual to things like scent, social cues, and unique personal detail, enriching her cultural reporting.

  “She wrote a lot about smells, which I think is something that writers sometimes forget to do, especially nowadays...in its precision, you know, conveys worlds.” (16:29–18:06)

Didion’s Biography—Facts and Context

• McDonnell stresses the importance of Didion’s California roots and their enduring influence on Didion’s identity and prose.
• Didion’s complex family dynamics, especially with her mother, and the narrative shifts after her mother’s death are key to understanding her late work.

Collaboration and Marriage with John Gregory Dunne

• Didion’s partnership with Dunne included shared writing projects and mutual editorial feedback, a rarity among writer couples.

  “They would drive around and write dialogue, you know, as they were driving, she would take notes...He seemed to glory in her refracted fame.” (21:41–23:05)

The “Jogger” Chapter & Crime Reporting

• The Central Park Jogger case—a key late-career journalistic moment for Didion—is discussed as a breakthrough for crime reporting, centering social injustice over official narratives.

  “To not just take what the police are saying, what the courts are saying, but to really look at the sociology behind a case.” (24:25–25:29)

• Didion was ahead of her time in highlighting race, media bias, and injustice, though her insights went largely unheeded by mainstream media at the time.

Grief, Loss, and Later Life

• Didion’s late work, especially The Year of Magical Thinking, is lauded for its rawness and universality on loss.
• McDonnell reflects on Didion’s resilience, continuing to live and work productively in New York after the profound loss of her husband and daughter.

Closing Image & Enduring Legacy

• The episode closes with an evocative anecdote:

  “I do have this image of Joan...sitting in a diner on the Upper East Side eating her soft eggs...reading the New York Times and drinking her coffee and being, you know, a woman alone.” (29:17–29:59)

• Didion’s personal journey, cultural observation, and rich legacy continue to inspire generations of readers and writers.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Didion’s self-awareness and transparency:

  “I've had to struggle all my life against my own apprehensions, my own false ideas, my own distorted perceptions...It takes an act of will to live in the world...You have to keep stripping yourself down, examining everything you see, getting rid of whatever is blinding you. Then she offered this: ‘Throw yourself into the convulsion of the world.’”
  – Joan Didion, 1975 UC Riverside Commencement, read by McDonnell (14:14–16:10)

• On writing as understanding:

  “I write in order to understand what I think.”
  – Joan Didion (cited by Evelyn McDonnell) (12:21–12:26)

• On Didion’s revision process:

  “She really did go through and just refine, refine, refine...It’s a job and it’s work and you keep doing it.”
  – Evelyn McDonnell (10:22–11:29)

• On the Central Park Jogger case:

  “She was very clear about it: ‘there were early on certain aspects of this case that seemed not well handled by the police and prosecutors and others that seemed not well handled by the press.’”
  – Alison Stewart paraphrasing Didion (25:15–25:29)

Segment Timestamps

• 01:27–03:18 — Introduction of guest and the book’s unique approach
• 04:04–05:14 — Why the book took shape after Didion's death
• 06:10–07:53 — Didion’s shifting writing and politics
• 08:00–10:13 — Deep research: archives, process, and discovering Didion’s working methods
• 12:12–13:41 — Didion’s philosophy of writing and communicating it to others
• 14:14–16:10 — Reading from the book, highlighting Didion’s self-reflection
• 16:29–18:06 — Unique observations: smells, status detail, fly-on-the-wall technique
• 19:06–20:53 — Didion’s biographical context: California, family, and personal transformation
• 21:41–23:05 — Marriage and creative partnership with John Gregory Dunne
• 23:35–25:29 — The “Jogger” chapter: journalism, justice, and ahead-of-its-time criticism
• 27:30–29:08 — Handling the deaths of Dunne and Quintana: empathy, partial answers, and the challenge of biography
• 29:17–29:59 — Closing anecdote: Didion as a solitary observer in later life

Conclusion

The World According to Joan Didion episode captures Didion’s complexity—her rigorous revision, unflinching self-scrutiny, and her sharp, often prescient cultural analysis. Evelyn McDonnell’s approach, both scholarly and empathetic, reveals the humanity behind the icon and provides a thoughtful roadmap for readers—old and new—to engage with Didion’s still-vital body of work.