← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
Tony Nominee: Daniel Radcliffe stars in 'Merrily We Roll Along'
00:19:17
Actors Daniel Radcliffe and Lindsay Mendez join us to discuss the recent revival of 'Merrily We Roll Along.'
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- [00:02]
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- [00:29]
Lindsay Mendez
Let's go.
- [00:32]
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- [01:57]
Daniel Radcliffe
Prices and participation may vary.
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Kusha Navadar
Only available while supplies last. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Kusha Navadar in for Alison Stewart and for today's show. Since the Tony Awards are coming up this weekend, we thought we'd share some of our conversations about the incredible live theater shows that are nominated this season. Later this hour we'll hear about the revival of Cabaret with stars Eddie Redmayne and Gail Rankin along with Director Rebecca Frecknell. And then we'll get into the musical Hell's Kitch Kitchen, inspired by the New York City infused childhood of Alicia Keys. But now we'll roll along with actors Daniel Radcliffe and Lindsay Mendez, who joined us here on all of it to talk about the revival of Merrily We Roll Along. The story of the 1981 production of Merrily We Roll along is legendary, almost infamous, with a score by Sondheim and a book by George Firth and Hal Prince directing. What could go wrong? Well, everything. It flopped. Audiences left during intermission. It closed within two weeks. Sondheim and Prince didn't work together for years. So when brave souls attempt to tackle this story of friendship through the ages, there's always the question of, will it work? Seven Tony nominations at this year's awards suggest that this revival did, in fact, work. Nominee Jonathan Groff plays Franklin Shepard, an earnest composer who sells out to make movies, much to the chagrin of friend and creative partner Charlie Kringas, a tightly wound wordsmith played by Daniel Radcliffe. And Tony Award winner Lindsay Mendez stars as Mary, a once celebrated novelist turned theater critic turned alcoholic who's always been in love with Frank. The play starts at the height of Frank's fame and in some ways, pain. His real friends can't stand him. He can't stand himself. Not that the hangers on at his LA house notice, but from there, the show goes backwards in time, from the 1970s to the 50s. Show the audience how it all unraveled and how the beautiful friendship between Franklin and Charlie began when Daniel Radcliffe and Lindsay Mendez joined Allison on the show in 2021. When Merrily We Roll along first began its run at a smaller venue at New York Theater Workshop. She started by asking Lindsay what conversations she remembers from director Maria Friedman about where the potential pitfalls of the original production lay and how this production was going to avoid them.
- [04:34]
Lindsay Mendez
Maria, really, from the get go, you know, always really 100% stood behind the words and the story that, you know, that came to us. And she really, you know, I think. I think when we looked at it right from the get go, we thought, oh, my gosh, there's so much pain in this story and there's so much that we all see after having the life that we've had under us. And so I think thinking about the story initially being done by kids, there's just, you know, more than half the story is about not being kids. And we kind of all bring our history, our pain, our experience to the roles. And I think that was Maria's kind of big discovery and big, you know, what she really wanted and got with this piece and with bringing us to it. So I think that was a huge part of it. And I think we all just. We fell in love with the show immediately and the story and felt it really deserved its due. And by treating it like a play, which is how we pretty much treat it, you know, these songs just kind of end up being these little gifts in between, and we all just, I think, believe that it's so, so special.
- [05:59]
Alison Stewart
Daniel, how about for you? What questions did you have going going into this?
- [06:04]
Daniel Radcliffe
I mean, I. It's interesting because the only production I've ever seen of this show was this production in London in 2013, where it also worked and was brilliant. So I Then I sort of found out about, like, oh, Merrily has, like, a problematic history or a pitfalls history, whatever, sort of after having seen, like, a version that worked spectacularly. So, like, I didn't. I didn't have as many of those worries. I mean, in terms of what I've heard about people talking about other productions and other things, I think we. I think we focused very much as a production on it being about the friendship rather than it being, like, a comment on selling out and commerce versus art and those things. Like, they're there, they're a part of the story, but they're not, I think the thing that gets you hooked into these people and their love, each other. I also think, like, we are making this in a very different moment than it was made originally and has been made just in terms of, like, what we think sell it. Like, Frank, as you said in your really brilliant recap, by the way, I definitely couldn't summarize the story that well. You know, Frank. Frank just wants to make movies like, it's not a crime. It's not. And so I think it's much less a story about one guy doing something wrong and the other people in his life sort of berating him for it. It's just like people going in different directions and not. It's no. There's no. No one's wrong in this story. Every. Everybody just, like, wants each other, but also wants different things at the same time, which I think makes it so painful.
- [07:42]
Alison Stewart
Lindsay, how do you think this being. And being incubated, especially here in New York in a small theater, in that great theater on east fourth street, has helped the show, has helped the show find itself?
- [07:56]
Lindsay Mendez
Oh, gosh. Well, I mean, to start with, just having the support of the New York Theatre Workshop Specifically, I mean, they are just an incredible home, and they have made us all feel so warm and welcome and given us everything we could possibly want to be able to. To love coming to work every day. And I also think that, you know, the audiences of the workshop, they're super sophisticated. They're used to seeing, you know, all sorts of really different theater and. And they were all so excited to be there. And I also think, and the three of us have talked about this a lot, like, I've never been in a show where I haven't even started rehearsals and the run was sold out. So to. To know that people are super excited to be there when, When. When I get to the theater every night to have that and know how. How much people love this show and want to see it and want to support it and want to, you know, support Sondheim. I mean, it's just. It's such a. It's such a gift and gives us so much, you know, energy and life to like, kind of come in and say, like, oh, we're going to give our absolute best at every opportunity. Because they just. Every show feels like this kind of rare event to us. So it's been really wonderful. And to kind of have the safety net and support of that little space has felt quite lovely, though. Yes, Very tight.
- [09:40]
Alison Stewart
Daniel, what do you get creatively out of working in a small space?
- [09:45]
Daniel Radcliffe
I mean, I love it, but I really enjoy chaos. And I just. Because, in terms of like the backstage track, because, you know, for example, there are. There's an upright piano and a baby grand piano, and they have to be got on and off the stage multiple times every night without wings, really, like, with a very, very tight space in there, but. But it means we're sort of like all in there together. And yeah, it's great. I think it's like, I really. On a sort of personal, fun level, I really, really enjoy it. But there is also something to being able to do something like, so intimate as this, as the show can be with an audience that's that close to you. I think there's also, like, there's something about, you know, you can really. You can just really feel reactions sometimes. And it sort of. It does. Like, it's when you hear the audience, like on Mass connect with a moment, it just is like, it emotionally, like, supercharges you for the. Through the scene. It's really. It's really cool.
- [10:48]
Alison Stewart
Daniel, your number in the show. Frank Laird Shepherd, Inc. Charlie is just engaging in a live on TV tirade against Frank for Not being fully dedicated to this work. It's got the super fast lyrics, the sound effects, a lot of energy. You said you love chaos.
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Marshall's Brand Representative
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Alison Stewart
But as an actor, just in terms of the work you have to do, what are your first steps in getting that in your grasp before you can even add any embellishments or any sort of creative stuff to it? How do you wrestle that one down?
- [11:20]
Daniel Radcliffe
Just at first. I mean, just listening to it for hours and hours and hours until it's kind of just in you. And then at a certain point, you have to, like, stop listening to it because you're listening to, like, other versions. So, like. And so, like, that was something I was like, at a certain point, you have to just, you know, be able to do it without the music as well. So to check, it's just. It's memorized on its own and not just with the sort of the. The aid of having the music playing and. Yeah, so it's just. It's just repetition. I know it's a really boring answer, but it's basically just huge amounts of repetition. And then.
- [11:59]
Alison Stewart
Then when does the chaos come in?
- [12:01]
Daniel Radcliffe
Then you start, like. But when you start building it, then it's. Yeah. How active can you make it and where can you find things to do and how quick can you make the transitions between those things? And it's like the chaos comes in, obviously, like, how fast it is because there's. There's just always. There's, you know, there is always a risk of it going wrong, which is quite exciting, but terrifying, but hopefully also makes it exciting for an audience where. In the same way that, like, when I was doing how to Succeed, the only other musical that I've done, there was like, a big dance number at the end of that. And, like, I always thought this, you know, watching dancers do that is great, but watching somebody who absolutely isn't a dancer do it and, like, might screw up at any moment, I think adds an element of fear and excitement for an audience. So I'm hoping that that's. That's true of Franklin Shepard. But I love it's, you know, it's like. Yeah, it's just. It's an incredibly exhilarating number to get to do, so it's a real privilege to do it.
- [13:05]
Lindsay Mendez
One of the things about being on stage with Dan and John is. Is I think for the first time ever, I. I feel like, very open to, like, anything happening and. And that we'll just kind of take it as it comes because there's so much trust between us. That I just feel very like it's not always gonna be the same. Things are. You know, all sorts of things happen, and. But I feel so safe with them that, like, we're gonna navigate it together, you know, through the night. That's a really wonderful feeling to do a show with two other people rather than, like, kind of carrying a show by yourself on your back a little bit. You know, this show really is special in that way that we kind of have each other.
- [13:43]
Alison Stewart
As someone in the arts, Lindsay, is there one character you can particularly relate to who's trying to pursue their dreams?
- [13:50]
Lindsay Mendez
Oh, my gosh. I think all of them, because I think you look at Frank, John's character, who's just, you know, trying to be a success and trying to make it and keeps kind of seeing the next prize and the next prize, and doesn't matter if, you know, someone looks at him as selling out or, you know, taking something cheap. It's like, well, I want to live. I want to get to the next level. This is fun. As opposed to, you know, Charlie, Dan's character, and Mary kind of saying more like, well, don't sell out. You need to do what, you know, only do the work that inspires you, and that says something, and that means something. And, you know, I think as artists, we. I know I've gone through that many a time in my career where I'm like, oh, no, do I want to do, you know, X and Y jukebox musical? You know, what is the message? Do I feel like I'm standing behind something important, but also, like, I have a child and I have to eat and support myself and keep a career going? And, you know, and. And those questions, I think, you know, we. We're constantly kind of asking like, what, you know, why did I become an artist? What is the. What is the goal here? You know, and when you become an artist, you want to do great art, and you don't always learn that, like, oh, you have to get insurance and pay your bills and keep up a life, too. And so I really. I feel so close to this story in that. In all of these characters kind of struggles with that.
- [15:23]
Alison Stewart
How about for you, Daniel? You've made some really interesting choices in your career. Lifespan of Effect. Loved seeing that.
- [15:29]
Daniel Radcliffe
Oh, thank you very much.
- [15:30]
Alison Stewart
You know, when you could have stayed in a much more commercial vein, you've made some interesting choices that I, you know, it's. It's a little meta in the show in a moment or two, right?
- [15:40]
Daniel Radcliffe
I guess. I mean, I. I definitely think I was Sort of, you know, I was put in such a rare position, both like, professionally and financially by the Harry Potter films that I was sort of freed from the need to do, like, I could say at 20, 21, like, the most commercially and financially successful thing you have ever done is done and is behind you. You will not do that again. What do you want your career to be now? Like, what do you want out of this? And I really like being on film sets and being on stage and just like, doing this stuff and, you know, for the sake of. Of doing it and getting to work with the people that I work with. So I. I definitely, you know, I relate to Charlie's argument a lot of. Just like. Because I don't think he's saying, don't make money. Don't be successful. He's just saying, like, do the things you love that you want to do. And obviously he does have prob, you know, strident views on selling out than I certainly do. But, yeah, I just think I was sort of freed from a lot of those pressures and was able to do the things I love, which is insanely lucky thing to happen to a person.
- [16:53]
Alison Stewart
And also, I think Charlie's afraid of losing his friend.
- [16:56]
Daniel Radcliffe
Yeah, I mean, that's the. Ultimately, everything comes back to just, like, I like spending time with you, and we're not spending time together. And the way we know how to spend time together is by making shows and working, and we haven't figured out another way of doing it.
- [17:10]
Alison Stewart
For a story about friendship and about why we. Why we love each other and then why we turn on each other, what do you think works about the plot going in reverse time wise? Lindsay, what do you think is. Is. Is. How does that help us understand these people a little better?
- [17:32]
Lindsay Mendez
I mean, I just think if it played forward, these people would be completely intolerable. I mean, you know, like, kind of seeing them at their worst and letting them kind of letting the story unfold where they kind of redeem themselves and go back and you see how the friendship got started. I don't know. I do feel like it does lay out, you know, some sort of hope in this kind of cautionary tale. And. And I don't know. I mean, I think that. Yeah, I think that the telling of it backwards just really allows the audience to, like, take in and love these people and see their pitfalls and understand and all these kind of reveals happen in reverse that are super cool and. Yeah, I just think it couldn't work the other way, personally.
- [18:32]
Alison Stewart
Danielle.
- [18:32]
Lindsay Mendez
What, Dan? I don't know. Yeah.
- [18:33]
Alison Stewart
There's this idea that we meet them kind of when they're not at their best.
- [18:36]
Lindsay Mendez
Oh, my God. They're all three horrible.
- [18:38]
Daniel Radcliffe
Oh, my God. Yeah. The opening scene is so toxic. I'm glad every night that I don't. I'm not in it. But it's. Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with Lindsay. I think it would be really, really hard to take if this story were told in the chronological order and. Yeah, and Lindsay mentioned them. But the reverse reveals are, like, some of the most satisfying things to hear every night. Listening to an audience put things together is just so exciting. And. Yeah, I think it's an interesting device and it makes you take things in in a different way and, like, work maybe a little harder. And.
- [19:23]
Lindsay Mendez
Yeah, as actors, it's been a really interesting exercise for us to do as well. It's been really challenging. And also because these scenes just kind of jump cut. They just end and then you're in a different time immediately. And so you have no time to, like, reset or live in a moment. You're just like, pow. You're from, like, absolute devastation to, like, complete joy. Like, in two seconds. It's. It's wild.
- [19:46]
Alison Stewart
I'm not going to spoil the ending for those who've not ever seen Merrily We Roll along, but there's a lot that remains unresolved and it's sort of bittersweet in those last few. Mom. Daniel, what kind of conversations would you hope someone who goes and has drinks after seeing the show or coffee has about the show?
- [20:04]
Daniel Radcliffe
Honestly, like, I hope it makes them think about, you know, it's about friends and about friendship. It definitely. Like, we had been working on and doing Old Friends for a couple of days in rehearsal, and I was like, I have an old friend I should call. Like, I think it, like, it just makes you, like, think about people and time. My personal feeling is that this play is not as sad as everyone thinks because it's. The implication being that if you. The only way it's not sad is if everyone is friends until they're actual deathbeds. And I feel like things can have still, like, a lot of meaning and even if they end in a way that's less than ideal.
- [20:45]
Kusha Navadar
That was Alison Stewart's conversation with Daniel Radcliffe and Lindsay Mendes about their Tony nominated performances in Merrily We Roll up next. The immersive revival of Cabaret has earned nine Tony nominations, including Best Musical Revival. I talked with its stars Eddie Redmayne and Gail Rankin, along with director Rebecca Frecknell, who discuss bringing the Weimar Republic Kit Kat Club to life.
- [21:20]
Bix Soleil Brand Representative
Surprise beach day. No excuses. I'm in. Gimme five. With Bix Soleil Glide Raz, you'll have hydrated, smooth skin that's ready to go on the fly. No shave cream needed. You can prep, shave and hydrate all in one step thanks to moisture bars that hydrate your skin during and after shaving. 5 flexible blades hug your skin for a close shave. Glide into smooth. It's your time to shine with Bixsol A buy now at Amazon and Walmart. Ready? Your skin looks amazing. So smooth and beach ready.
- [21:47]
Lindsay Mendez
Let's go. Ooh.
- [21:49]
Alison Stewart
Gecko. I just love being able to file a claim in under two minutes with a Geico app. Could you sign a. Sign what?
- [21:55]
Daniel Radcliffe
The app?
- [21:55]
Alison Stewart
Yeah, sure. Oh, it rubbed off the screen when I touched it. Could you sign it again?
- [21:59]
Daniel Radcliffe
Anything to help, I suppose.
- [22:01]
KFC Brand Representative
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