Podcast Summary: All Of It — "Understanding The Origins of Our Tears"

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Episode: Understanding The Origins of Our Tears
Air Date: May 20, 2024
Host: Koosha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Pepita Sandwich, visual artist and author of The Art of Crying: The Healing Power of Tears

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the uniquely human phenomenon of crying, exploring its emotional, cultural, and biological dimensions. Special guest Pepita Sandwich shares her artistic and scientific inquiry into tears, offering insights from her illustrated book. Throughout the episode, listeners call in with personal stories of their most memorable cries, adding real-life nuance to the discussion.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Origins and Inspiration for "The Art of Crying"

• Pepita's Crying Diaries: Pepita began tracking and illustrating every time she cried after moving from Buenos Aires to New York City in January 2020, initially as a way to process loneliness and change.
  • Quote: "I've always been a big crier. I say that I'm a serial crier... But when I moved from Buenos Aires to New York, it was the first day of 2020...I decided to start my crying diaries." (03:07)
• The COVID-19 lockdown intensified her reflection, prompting questions about the evolutionary and emotional role of tears.

Science and History of Tears

• Types of Tears: The book and conversation highlight three types—basal (lubricate the eyes), physical (response to irritation or pain), and emotional (unique to humans, contain additional stress hormones).

  • Quote: "We have basal tears... physical tears, which are related to physical pain... and in humans, we have emotional tears." (10:50)

• Cultural Evolution of Tears: The perception of crying has varied across eras. In Ancient Greece, tears were seen as pleasurable and expected; in Ancient Egypt, they held ritualistic and agricultural significance.

  • Quote: "In ancient Greece, tears were expected and also kind of like a pleasure from the mind... in ancient Egyptian times, tears were part of rituals and very sacred waters..." (05:04)

• Tears as Communication: Crying evolved as a visual signal to others that we need help, making it a key tool in social bonding.

Art and the Visualization of Crying

• Pepita’s background as an illustrator shapes her exploration of tears. She believes comics and visual metaphors help universalize personal experiences and make emotional discourse more accessible.
  • Quote: "Drawing, for me, is very cathartic and in a way, kind of like a meditation... illustration... expand[s] that kind of research because it's not only words, but you're seeing a visual metaphor." (07:02)

Listener Stories: The Many Faces of Tears

Crying From Pain (Sarah, Brooklyn)

• Sarah recounted crying during a complicated labor, consciously choosing to cry as an "outlet for stress and pain."
  • Quote: "I remember very distinctly thinking, this is when people cry. You cry as an outlet of your stress and of pain. And it is a relief..." (09:09)

Crying From Art & Joy (Ken, Park Slope; Koosha Navadar)

• Ken shared he cried at the finale of the TV show "A Gentleman in Moscow," exemplifying how stories move us to tears.

  • Quote: "Last night... at the finale of A Gentleman in Moscow... it was very, very emotional. It was sad and tragic." (12:41)

• Host Koosha admitted to joyful tears during his wedding, relating it to the cathartic value the Greeks attached to crying.

  • Quote: "For me, it was two weeks ago at the ceremony of my wedding... when I listened to her start, it just started for me. And like you said, it was almost enjoyable." (08:15)

Embarrassment, Empathy, and Social Norms (Alicia, Westchester)

• Alicia grappled with feeling embarrassed about frequent crying, having once felt ashamed of her father’s openness with tears.

  • Quote: "I used to be ashamed of my dad, who was like that, but now... I cry because I'm happy or because I'm sad..." (13:50)

• Pepita contextualized embarrassment as a product of societal norms that stigmatize crying, advocating for changing negative language around tears.

  • Quote: "I think we feel embarrassed because we've been taught not to cry for so long and I think we need to change that now." (14:22)

Grief and Necessity (Maria, Brooklyn)

• Maria, recently widowed, described frequent, intense tears as a "necessity" for handling loss.

  • Quote: "It's almost like a dam that wants to burst... I'm not sure what I would do if I didn't cry... it seems like a necessity almost." (17:33)

• Pepita reflected on how tears help us process milestones, both joyful and sad, sharing her own recent experiences with familial illness coinciding with her book release.

Place-Based Crying: Crying in Public and in New York

• Pepita extolled New York as the world’s best city for crying—one can both find anonymity and connection in public spaces.

  • Quote: "New York City is one of the best cities to cry in the world... some. Someone told me that New York City is our cry ground..." (19:36)

• Examples: The Metropolitan Museum, Central Park, and even the subway.

• Texted listener:

  • "You're not a real New Yorker until you've cried in public." (20:37)

Unexplained Tears During Exercise (Anne, Fairfield)

• Anne asked why she sometimes cries while running on the treadmill, even when not sad. Pepita explained this might be the body physically processing stress or emotion, much like the phenomenon referenced in a Taylor Swift lyric.
  • Quote (Pepita): "Those are also physical... because you are releasing stress through sweat... your brain needs to release that, you know, that physical stimuli... through tears." (21:38)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Tears evolved as a kind of signal to other people that we need help." — Pepita Sandwich (05:04)
• "Drawing, for me, is very cathartic and in a way, kind of like a meditation." — Pepita Sandwich (07:02)
• "This is when people cry. You cry as an outlet of your stress and of pain. And it is a relief." — Sarah, Caller (09:09)
• "Crying is there for us in every important milestone. It lubricates births... when we lose someone... tears are present." — Pepita Sandwich (18:19)
• "There is sacredness in tears. They are not the mark of weakness, but of power..." — Listener quoting Washington Irving via text (22:55)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Introduction to Pepita and her book | 01:32–03:07 | | Origins of the crying diaries | 03:07–04:50 | | Science and history of tears | 04:50–06:46 | | Importance of visual art in processing crying | 06:46–08:15 | | First caller—Crying from pain (Sarah) | 09:09–10:50 | | The biological and emotional function of tears | 10:50–12:15 | | Crying due to art & joy (Ken, show host) | 12:15–13:49 | | Embarrassment, empathy, and social norms | 13:49–16:07 | | Grief and crying as necessity (Maria) | 16:07–18:19 | | Crying in public spaces (NYC) | 19:33–20:37 | | Crying during exercise (Anne) | 20:48–22:19 | | Episode wrap-up and notable listener quote | 22:19–23:13 |

Episode Tone & Concluding Remarks

The episode thoughtfully interweaves scientific insight, art, and lived experience, maintaining an open, empathetic tone throughout. Pepita Sandwich and Koosha Navadar engage with callers in a supportive, often playful way, modeling the vulnerability that their subject calls for. The conversation affirms crying as a powerful tool—one that communicates, heals, connects, and reveals what matters most.

Final Words

• "Thank you so much for having me. And happy tears to everyone." — Pepita Sandwich (23:13)

Recommended for: Anyone interested in emotional health, art as therapy, anthropology of feelings, or simply feeling less alone in their tears.