Vivian Maier's First Major U.S Retrospective at Fotografiska

Summary

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Podcast Summary: All Of It – Vivian Maier's First Major U.S. Retrospective at Fotografiska

Podcast: All Of It
Host: Alison Stewart, WNYC
Episode Title: Vivian Maier's First Major U.S Retrospective at Fotografiska
Date: September 2, 2024

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Overview of the Episode

This episode of All Of It spotlights the first major U.S. retrospective of the mysterious and influential photographer Vivian Maier, on view at Fotografiska New York. Host Alison Stewart is joined by Anne Morin (curator and director of Dichroma Photography) and Sophie Wright (Fotografiska's executive director), who discuss the arc of Maier’s now-acclaimed work, her groundbreaking approach to street and self-portrait photography, and her recognition in the annals of photographic history. Through lively conversation, Stewart and her guests illuminate Maier's evolution, her distinct vision, and what her unseen archive reveals about her—and about seeing itself.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Significance of Vivian Maier's Homecoming ([04:09])

• Anne Morin highlights that this exhibition is a landmark: Maier’s first U.S. retrospective, in her birthplace, New York City.
• For Morin, displaying Maier’s New York images where they were originally shot delivers "a recognition of her work from her country, her culture and her town. So she's mainly—the picture we have in that exhibition are taken in New York. It's such a contemporary language settled again in the same place as she took the picture 60 years ago." ([04:09])

2. Curating Maier: Challenges & Curation ([06:46])

• Morin describes this as the “most difficult case” of her career, having to make sense of a “virgin landscape” with virtually no curatorial precedents and 150,000 negatives to sift through.
• She emphasized her slow, thoughtful approach: “I had to do it slowly and make sure that I did not did any mistake…after I would say 12 years, I really thought that I was ready to propose an exhibition of that level.” ([06:46])

3. Maier's Place in the Canon ([08:28])

• Morin argues Maier belongs alongside greats like Robert Frank and Diane Arbus: “how strong, how well composed, how sure she was when she was taking a picture…she had the density of the pictures, the perfect composition, and the fact that she used also to take just one picture for one scene project her work, her language in a very high level.” ([08:42])

4. Self-Portraits as Self-Actualization ([10:08], [11:15])

• Sophie Wright and Anne Morin agree Maier’s experimental self-portraits are radical acts of self-actualization, long before the selfie era.
  • Wright: “It's the work of a very, very thoughtful and playful individual…really trying to piece herself together in some ways.” ([10:08])
  • Morin: “the hard beating of the work, the main center of Vivian Meyer is self representation…it's a kind of act of resistance against a society that erased completely that, that class of worker, working class.” ([11:15])

5. Street Photography: Seeing the Extraordinary in the Ordinary ([13:19], [14:49])

• Morin: Maier had “the ability to preview what is going to happen one second after…collecting little stories, little narrations…between movement and contemplation.” ([13:21])
• On her instincts: “They are animals, really. I think they have the same instinct and intuition as animals that belong to specific territory.” ([14:49])
• Notably, Morin remarks Maier excelled in the environments she understood—her “eye” didn’t translate when photographing abroad ([14:49]).

6. The Art of Cropping and Composition ([16:48])

• The exhibition places Maier’s own cropped prints beside full-frame modern prints. Morin calls cropping “a cinematic gesture…taking a picture inside the picture. It's an artistic game in a way.” ([17:01])
• Morin describes the square format as “perfect” for Maier, while she “struggled” with color 35mm. ([17:01])

7. Star Encounters and Class—The Lena Horne Photo ([18:28])

• Morin observes Maier’s fascination with movie stars, yet notes “when you see the portrait Vivian Meyer is taking of people like her, poor people, low class, social, they never ever smile…smiling is a seduction.” ([18:28])
• Maier herself, tall and unafraid, could get close even to celebrities without pretense.

8. Playfulness Without Malice: The ‘Gestures’ Series ([19:46], [20:16])

• Wright sees “a sense of playfulness” in Maier’s photos of people sneezing, sleeping, fixing shoes, etc., never mean-spirited: “she had a very democratic eye…portraits of totally unselfconscious bodies.” ([20:16])

9. The Rolleiflex Effect—Camera and Connection ([21:28])

• Morin: Using a Rollei, Maier “cannot hide behind a camera. She only can face what she sees. And this is the reason for me at least, why her portraits are so strong, because you see perfectly that there's a communication between the one who is the subject and herself…it’s a beautiful relationship.” ([21:28])

10. Capturing Children: Motion and Emotion ([23:02])

• Morin: Maier “captures the childhood she never had…motion but also emotion.”
• Children were both her subjects and those in her care, and “there’s really a necessity to educate them, to bring them an identity, to help them to build that identity.” ([23:02])

11. Color Work and Maier’s Evolution ([24:49], [25:05])

• Wright: “I think it's her formal qualities, really, that are the most strong in the way that she photographs. So I'm not so sure that the color photography is her best, but I think it's very interesting to see her use it.” She highlights a standout image: a “child’s eye looking through the weave of a chair.” ([25:05])
• Maier’s film work and color are interesting, but black-and-white remains her defining medium ([25:05]).

12. Fotografiska’s Space and Maier’s Hat ([27:08], [28:14])

• Wright shares how Fotografiska seeks a less vertical, higher-ceilinged space for future exhibits ([27:08]).
• Morin explains the inclusion of Maier’s iconic hat: “it talks about a face that we don't know, a figure that do not have face…it's just enough, her hat, to symbolize her presence in the exhibition.” ([28:26])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Anne Morin on Maier’s recognition:
  “Fifteen years ago she was still invisible. We raised her name into history of photography. And for me, that show in New York at Fotografiska means a lot because it's a recognition of her work from her country, from her culture and her town.” ([04:09])

• Sophie Wright on Maier’s curation and evolution:
  “One sees a sort of a kind of evolution in her work from the early pictures through to a more kind of abstracted language...there's a sophistication in the work that perhaps is more abstract than quite complex compositions that one isn't so familiar with.” ([05:20])

• Anne Morin on self-portraiture:
  “The chapter of self representation is probably the chapter that makes a difference with other photographers...it's a kind of act of resistance against a society that erased completely that, that class of worker, working class.” ([11:15])

• Sophie Wright on gestures in Maier's work:
  “I think there's a sense of playfulness about them...portraits of totally unselfconscious bodies. And I think that's the art of the photographers capturing those moments…” ([20:16])

• Anne Morin on the role of the Rolleiflex:
  “She cannot hide behind a camera. She only can face what she sees. And this is the reason for me at least, why her portraits are so strong, because you see perfectly that there's a communication between the one who is the subject and herself.” ([21:28])

• Anne Morin on Maier’s hat:
  “Why a hat? Because it's really a signature. It talks about a face that we don't know, a figure that do not have face. And it's just enough her hat to symbolize her presence.” ([28:26])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 04:09 – Anne Morin on the significance of the U.S. retrospective
• 06:46 – Curatorial challenges and “tidying” the 150,000-image archive
• 08:28 – Maier’s place among photo greats
• 10:08 – Self-portraiture as experiment and statement
• 13:21 – Collecting the extraordinary within the ordinary
• 14:49 – Instincts of a street photographer
• 16:48 – The art and meaning of cropping
• 18:28 – Encounter with Lena Horne and issues of class
• 20:16 – Gestures and the democratic eye
• 21:28 – Role of the Rolleiflex camera
• 23:02 – Photographing children: motion, emotion, and meaning
• 24:49 – Color work and Maier’s artistic trajectory
• 27:08 – Searching for a new Fotografiska space
• 28:26 – Symbolism of Vivian Maier’s hat in the exhibition

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Episode Tone and Style

The episode is thoughtful, reflective, and celebratory of Maier’s enduring mystique and impact. The mood is respectful, occasionally reverent, with warmth and admiration for Maier’s vision, and a sense of wonder at the ongoing discovery of her oeuvre.

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Conclusion

This episode provides a rich, layered portrait of Vivian Maier’s work and persona. Through the perspectives of curator Anne Morin and executive director Sophie Wright, listeners gain insight into Maier’s enduring power—how her images resonate today, how her visibility is itself a statement, and why her retrospective in her birth city matters. This makes the Fotografiska show not only a can’t-miss event for art lovers but a pivotal moment in the continued rewrite of photographic history.

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Transcript

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[Anne Moran]

In the flesh.

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[Anne Moran]

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[Anne Moran]

No worries. So are you just gonna watch me eat?

[Cafe Customer]

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[Anne Moran]

If you're gonna stick around, just pull up a chair.

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[Radio Announcer]

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[MultiCare Narrator]

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Listener supported WNYC studios.

[Anne Moran]

This.

[Alison Stewart]

Is all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. I hope you're having a great Labor Day weekend and I'm grateful to spend some time with you. Today we're revisiting some of our favorite art conversations from the summer before we get there. For those of you who have participated in our Summer Reading Challenge, a reminder that today is the deadline to let us know what you read. Remember, you have to read four books from the following seven A classic you've been meaning to get to, something by a debut novelist, a book recommended by a friend, a book about or set in New York, a book translated from another language, a book being turned into a TV series or a movie, and a book you heard about on all of it. So if you're cramming to finish the last book today, or if you're already finished the challenge, you can head to wnyc.org summerreading to fill out a form and tell us what you read. And in return, we'll send you a special prize. Again, the deadline is today, so tell us what you've read. You can find the form on our website. That's wnyc.org summerreading now for today's show. The upcoming fall season is always packed with new major art exhibits around the city. But just because Labor Day weekend is coming to a close doesn't mean summer is over just yet. We're focusing on shows that have been on view for the past few months that are closing soon, but you still have time to check them out. We'll learn more about the fashion exhibit at the Met and the stories behind some famous dresses. We'll also speak with new York artist Lyle Ashton Harris, who's having a bit of a homecoming with his retrospective at the Queen's Museum. But first we're headed to Park Avenue, where Fotografiska is currently displaying the work of a mysterious American photographer by the name of Vivian Meyer. The story of Vivian Meyer is a miracle. Born in 1924, she was an amateur photographer who worked as a nanny and took her camera everywhere. But even when she died in 2009, Meyer's work was unknown. She was invisible to the art world. That is, until hundreds of thousands of her negatives were discovered in a storage unit and people soon realized they had stumbled upon a genius. Over the last decade, her story has been told in an Oscar nominated documentary, multiple biographies and gallery shows. Now, for the first time, there's a US exhibition that captures the breadth of her work. The show is called Vivian Unseen Work and It takes up two floors at Fotografisca. There are over 200 images, Super 8 films, and even the cameras that Meier used. The exhibition is on View through September 29th. My guest for this conversation was Anne Moran, curator and director of Dichroma Photography, and Sophie Wright, Photografiska executive director. I started by asking Anne what she hoped this exhibition answers about Vivian Meyer.

[Anne Moran]

Well, you know, it's the first exhibition in US she's going, she's coming back home in her own city where she was born almost one century ago. And really for me, mission is accomplished with that exhibition because 15 years ago she was still invisible. She was not known. We raised her name into history of photography. And for me, that show in New York at Fotografiska means a lot because it's a recognition of her work from her country, from her culture and her town. So she's mainly the picture we have in that exhibition are taken in New York. So I mean, it's such a contemporary language settled again in the same place as she took the picture 60 years ago.

[Interviewer]

Sophie, the exhibition is the first time in the US that a complete presentation of Vivian Meyer's body of work. Now, for someone who thinks they know her work, what do you think this.

[Alison Stewart]

Exhibit shows about the work?

[Sophie Wright]

Well, I mean, I think a lot is sort of written about Vivienne's work. I personally thoroughly enjoy this curation because I think it's, first of all kudos to Anne. It's very beautifully done. I'm delighted our team was able to realize it with her. I think what's lovely is one sees a sort of a kind of evolution in her work from the early pictures through to a more kind of abstracted language, which was really interesting for me because I think she's known predominantly as a street photographer, and we all know that street photography is a very big umbrella term. But I think there's a sophistication in the work that perhaps is more abstract than quite complex compositions that one isn't so familiar with, particularly if you've watched the documentary where there's obviously a lot of self portraiture and work with children. So I think what's lovely is that. And then also the combination of color that I haven't seen before either, and the film work, which I think is very insightful in the way that she sort of worked around finding her pictures.

[Interviewer]

And this exhibit took 15 years in the making. What were some of the challenges you.

Faced as you put together your curatorial vision?

[Anne Moran]

Well, it has been probably in my professional career, the most difficult case I have to face. And the reason is why first it was a complete virgin landscape. No one jumped into that story. I mean, not any other curator could have been at least a kind of references for me. So I faced really a kind of mare Magnum. And what do I do? How do I do? How can I reveal the face of someone who we don't know about? And. And also the fact that archive. And you said that 150,000 negatives, which is huge. How can you tidy this? How you can reveal the architecture of the archive? It has been long. I took my time. I had to do it in that I had to do it slowly and make sure that I did not did any mistake. And I took the time really to see once and many times the pictures, all the films, listen, the tapes that we have also in the exhibition, some soundtracks. And after I would say 12 years, I really thought that I was ready.

[Sophie Wright]

To.

[Anne Moran]

Propose an exhibition of that level for Misia. That exhibition really project her name into history of photography. And I think it's a correct approximation of her work.

[Interviewer]

There's a paragraph introducing the show that ends liking Vivian Meyer's work to Robert Frank, Diane Arbus, Henri Cartier, Bresson. Anne, tell us why you think Meyer's work belongs in the canon.

[Anne Moran]

Oh, just look at the picture. You will see immediately that how strong, how well composed, how sure she was when she was taking a picture. And there's plenty of stories to tell about the reason why. Probably she took all that pictures, but she had the density of the pictures, the perfect composition, and the fact that she used also to take just one picture for one scene project her work, her Language in a very high level. The richness and the complexity of her language also proceeds to the fact that she was autodidact. She never learned photography. So she really opened a new territory in photography.

[Interviewer]

You mentioned there were so many different negatives, but the way that you organized this exhibition is into different categories like street and childhood and self portraits. And Sophie, obviously you've put on a lot of shows at Fotografiska, and this exhibit has images of the photography took of herself, and they're not straightforward photographs. She took pictures of herself in mirrors, with glimpses of herself in windows. One shot shows a check check on the purse with her name. What was unusual to you about the way that Vivian Meyer took a photo.

[Sophie Wright]

Of herself with sort of huge creativity? I think Anne talks very beautifully about this. It's almost like a self actualization, but it's also a very experimental approach to self portraiture. I mean, we all, you know, take selfies these days, but it's. It's the work of a very, very thoughtful and playful individual. It's really trying to piece herself together in some ways, from just a shadow on a wall through to multiple images over multiple mirrors in a. In a shop window. She's been extremely experimental and playful with that. But I do think there's something about the act of self actualization. You know, Anne talks about the fact that she was a n. She was really invisible in many ways. And I think, you know, the self portraiture piece is a very strong component of the exhibition for that reason.

[Interviewer]

And what do we learn about Vivian Meyer from the images that she took of herself?

[Anne Moran]

Well, I mean, this chapter of self representation is probably the chapter that makes a difference with others photographers. She's really the photographer in the 20th century who dive really deep into that problematic of self representation. And if nowadays Vivian Meyer is more than a work, is more than a story, and she's really a phenomenon, it's because it talks to our times. It talks to this problem of identities that is solved in a way with all that selfies, which are running on social media. So really the hard beating of the work, the main center of Vivian Meyer is self representation. And yes, as you said, Sophie, the question that Vivian Meyer was a nanny and she belongs to the dark side of the American dream, and she belongs to the invisibility at the end, the necessity to self represent herself. So many times per year and almost 500 self portrait during 45 years. It's a lot. It's a kind of act of resistance against a society that erased completely that, that class of worker, working class. I. I should say so really. It's something apart. And the vocal, the vocabulary she used, the syntaxes she used for self representation from the shadow till the mirror is open. A large spectrum.

[Interviewer]

Let's talk about the section street. She's known for her street photography. She could take an image of an Armenian woman having a fight on East 86th Street. That fight happens to be with a police officer. Shots from the Staten Island Ferry.

People's sort of their outlines of their heads and their images.

And what do you think caught her.

Attention about street life?

[Anne Moran]

Well, she was collecting her time and she has the ability to preview what is going to happen one second after. She's collecting little stories, little narrations. She's between the street American photography and the French humanism. I mean between movement and contemplation. And also the fact that she has that ability to just underline the extraordinary, which is in the deep of the ordinary, probably comes from the fact that she was a nanny and a nanny is always in communication. I mean in the world of kids. And kids have that faculty to see the extraordinary in the ordinary. So for me, this is. She demonstrates that in order to get the extraordinary, you don't have to go very far. It's just around you. You just have to open your eyes. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

There's one exhibit, you brought it up nicely about what happens before and after a photograph is made. It's a man holding a baby and a balloon. In one shot, his face is obscured.

It's almost like the baby planned it.

But we get to see the before shot where the balloon is off the. To the side.

And do you think that photographers have.

A sixth sense about knowing what can come next?

[Anne Moran]

Absolutely. They are animals, really. I think they have the same instinct and intuition as animals that belong to specific territory. And Vivian knew perfectly the language of her time and the language of her city and the language of the people around her moving. And she has really the capacity to. To see how the reality is about to raise and just to end up on the top by a picture. And. And yes, and you see, when she left us and she did that tour around the world in 1959, traveling in Tibet, in Malaysia, in China, in Egypt. She did not took any good picture because she did not understood. She did not fit in that. In that culture. And she was not able to see the reality with the same. Ey.

[Interviewer]

You're listening to my conversation about the exhibit Vivian unseen work on view now at Fotografiska. We'll have more with Curator Anne Moran and Fotografiska's executive director, Sophie Wright. After a quick break.

[MultiCare Narrator]

This is all of It.

[Interviewer]

You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. We continue my conversation about the exhibit Vivian Unseen Work, on view now at Fotografisca. It's the first major retrospective of photographer Mayer's work here in the United States. Here's more from curator and director of Dichroma Photography, Anne Morin and Fotografiska's executive director, Sophie Wright. And there's an interesting section about cropping a photo. Right next to each other are two croppings of the same photo. It's a man reading the paper. One is a very close cropping, one.

[Alison Stewart]

Is a wider shot.

[Interviewer]

Would you explain their positioning and how did Vivian Meyer see the positioning? Because one's hers and one's not.

[Anne Moran]

The Prince of. I would say printed in the complete view. I mean, not cropped is a modern print that we wanted. We did not crop any pictures. The cropped picture was done by and printed by Vivian Meyer. It's. It's a cinematic gesture in a way. The fact that when she had that laboratory in a bathroom in. In Chicago from 1956-96, 1967, during 11 years, she's been developing and she's been printing. She was not a good printer, but she was playing at the same time because cropping is taking a picture inside the picture. It's an artistic game in a way. However, you see clearly in the exhibitions that the square size is perfect for her. When she changed and she moved to 35 millimeters and take pictures in color, you see that that size does not completely work perfectly for her. So in a way, I think she's playing and she's. Yes, it's a kind of taking another picture in another picture, but the full frame is just perfect.

[Interviewer]

And I do want to ask about Lena Horne smiling. Was that an accident that she ran into Horne?

[Anne Moran]

Look, I mean, she had a great passion for cinema. She was going to see movies several times per week. And that smile was really important because when you see the portrait Vivian Meyer is taken of people like her, poor people, low class, social, they never ever smile because they cannot pretend to be someone else. Smiling is a seduction. Smiling is a kind of being someone else. It's a double in a way. Poor people don't have the possibility to be someone else. And. And it's. Well, I mean, she was fascinating by actors and she was.

[Interviewer]

She.

[Anne Moran]

She was really. She was reading biographies of Judy Garland, Simon Signore. I mean, she was. And the fact that also probably she was very tall and this kind of influence she had in herself can allow her to just get close to her. She did not have anything to lose. No.

[Interviewer]

We'Re talking about Vivian Meyer. Unseen work at Fotografiska until September 29th. My guests are its curator Anne Moran, and Sophie Wright, executive director of Fotografiska. Let's talk about gestures. This section on gestures, there's pictures of people sneezing and snoring and back of heads and tight curls. A man who's got a little rip in his pants. There's a woman fixing her shoe. Sophie, I'm going to ask you this. What keeps these from being mean spirited?

[Sophie Wright]

I think there's a sense of playfulness about them. You know, I don't, I think she had a very democratic eye. I don't think she would have turned it on herself. I mean, there's so much self portraiture, after all, in the show. Any differently. I think what's wonderful is their portraits of totally unselfconscious bodies. And I think that's the art of the photographers capturing those moments where, you.

[Anne Moran]

Know.

[Sophie Wright]

There'S, you know, their, their sort of inner worlds really are, are laid bare. I, I love the sleeping pictures, but I sort of see her very much. You know, I don't think she would have treated a photograph of herself any differently, honestly. I think everything is fair game in, in, in the sort of lens of.

[Interviewer]

Her camera and she used a roll flex camera. And I'm wondering if that had an impact on the kind of photos she was able to take because she was tall, as you said, and you could.

[Alison Stewart]

You could look through the top of.

[Interviewer]

The, of the camera to take a picture.

[Anne Moran]

Yes, absolutely. And I think that the fact she, she looks that way allow her to have a face and to look really what she was facing. She cannot hide behind a camera. She only can face what she sees. And this is the reason for me at least, why her portraits are so strong, because you see perfectly that there's a communication between the one who is the subject and herself. And I mean, and it's a beautiful relationship. However, it's just one second, which is not true because sometimes she takes a second picture and then she would be back one week later with the print and giving the print to the person. But that's really a human power, the fact that she face these people and look in the eyes and tells a story. However, it's a silent story.

[Interviewer]

In the childhood section as you can imagine she has beautiful photos of children, kids playing by the pool. To a small girl with tears just welling up in her eyes. She gets the kids looking not just cute, but really showing emotion. And what did she capture about children's faces that others didn't?

[Anne Moran]

I think first she captures the childhood she never had and the words you said about motion, emotion, but also motion. Because childhood is a place for the constant movement. And this constant movement will bring her to develop a certain specificity in her language and bring her from photography to cinema. I'm sure. I'm quite sure that all that question of movement that belongs to the childhood will project her in a new sphere of her language. But of course, I mean, also those kids were kids she was taking care of, but also kids she was meeting or viewing or in the streets that she did not know. But yes, I mean, childhood is really important in the fact that she was a photographer. I mean, the impact is. There's many consequences, I would say. And she's playing with them. In the soundtrack we have in the exhibition, you see how much not only she takes care of them, but there's really a necessity to educate them, to bring them an identity, to help them to build that identity, to have an opinion, to know, to be clever, to think, et cetera. All that things are part of her. I mean, it's not Vivian and her photography. It's just the photography belongs to Vivian Meyer.

[Interviewer]

Sophie, you mentioned the evolution of her work, and we get to see some color, some colorful photos. What does the addition of color tell us about Vivian Meyer?

[Sophie Wright]

I mean, I. I think it's interesting to see her playing with color photography. I think that. I think it's her formal qualities, really, and that are the most strong in the way that she photographs. So I'm not so sure that the color photography is her best, but I think it's very interesting to see her use it. I mean, there's a lot of still life and kind of objects together. There's one very wonderful. I mean, I. I keep thinking of the. The series of images of eyes that are extremely refined and, you know, abstracted, really, where. I think there's one where there's a color image of a child's eye looking through the weave of a. Of a chair, which I think goes back to what Anne was saying about the sort of way children encounter their world. You know, the way that they're so open to how they move through the world, the freedom that they have in terms of how they look at the world. I think that Works for me as a color image. And I think the seeing the films in color, the street photographs in color, and then seeing the black and white image beside it is quite interesting as well. But undoubtedly it's a part of her practice, but I think and good to see in the context of the Unseen work. But I think I always return to the black and white.

[Interviewer]

I have two final questions for Sophie. That is this is for you. It's the show Vivian Meyer Unseen will be up until September 29, the final exhibition for Fotografiska in this space. For people who haven't seen it, it's in this beautiful Flemish Renaissance building on 22nd, in part made famous by Anna Delvey and her shenanigans. But the show is put on great shows. David LaChapelle, Maya Lin, very, very cool photography. What is Photogris Fisca looking for in new space?

[Sophie Wright]

Well, I mean, we have a very beautiful building right now, undeniably so. And actually it's made a beautiful foil for this exhibition. And I hope your. Your audience come and check it out while. While it's here. I've been in post since April 2022, and really what I've observed over my time here is although it is a wonderful building, it's got actually quite a small footprint. It's very vertical. And you know, our audience, when we're flipping our shows can have quite a bumpy experience kind of traveling through the building from the sixth floor down. So what we're really looking for is a space that's probably less vertical, which I know is not the easiest in New York, and also with some higher ceilings. So although the sort of more classic work of Vivian sits well in the space, when we're dealing with contemporary photography and contemporary multimedia artists, in fact, you know, we need higher ceilings for larger scale pieces. So it's kind of a double pronged thing, really.

[Interviewer]

And Anne, for you, there is in the exhibition Her Hat, Vivian Meyer's hat. Why did you want to put the hat in the exhibition?

[Anne Moran]

Well, you know, in the exhibitions there's not only a hat, there's a soul also. And she's really there. Really, you feel a huge emotion. Why a hat? Because it's really a signature. It talks about a face that we don't know, a figure that do not have face. And it's just enough her hat to symbolize her presence in the exhibition. It's just a wink to her.

[Interviewer]

Vivian Meyer Unseen work is at Fotografiska.

Until September 29th at the 22nd and Park Avenue location. My guests have been Curator Anne Moran, Curator and Director of Dichroma Photography, and Sophie Wright, Executive Director of Fotografiska. Thank you both for joining us.

[Anne Moran]

Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

[Alison Stewart]

Edward C. Moore is a silversmith credited with establishing the reputation of Tiffany & Co. As one of the most elite jewelry companies in the world. The Met is currently showing almost 200 pieces from his collection. We'll hear about the story of Moore and the exhibit after a quick break. This is all of it.

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