Podcast Summary

All Of It – WNYC

Episode: Wagner Moura Stars in 'The Secret Agent'

Date: December 2, 2025
Host: Alison Stewart
Guests: Wagner Moura (actor), Kleber Mendonça Filho (director)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into The Secret Agent, a Brazilian film set during the 1970s military dictatorship, featuring acclaimed actor Wagner Moura and directed by Kleber Mendonça Filho. The discussion explores the film’s setting in Recife, Brazil, its distinctive blend of historical tension, magical realism, humor, and the personal and political resonance it carries for its creators. The conversation touches on themes of resistance, fatherhood, memory, censorship, and the joy and challenge of making culturally rich cinema in both native and global contexts.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Film and Its Setting

• Recife, Brazil as a Storytelling Hub
  • Kleber Mendonça Filho explains his longstanding commitment to filming in his hometown of Recife, attributing its "personality" and uniqueness as a driving factor in his storytelling.
    • "[Recife] is a city, it's a coastal city. It has a lot of personality. And that's where I have been shooting my films and telling the stories." – Kleber Mendonça Filho (01:47)
  • The film The Secret Agent is set in 1977 under Brazil’s military dictatorship, focusing on Marcelo, a researcher trying to reunite with his son while evading persecution.

Personal and Political Resonance

• Speaking in One’s Native Tongue
  • Wagner Moura reflects on the liberating experience of acting in Portuguese after 12 years, saying it allows for deeper emotional expression and authenticity.
    • "When I speak Portuguese, it feels like the words, they come out of my mouth with memory." – Wagner Moura (03:44)
• The Impact of the Bolsonaro Era
  • Both Moura and Mendonça Filho draw parallels between the film’s historical themes and recent political events in Brazil, specifically the Bolsonaro government (2018–2022), noting their personal involvement and the risks of artistic dissent.
    • "It's hard to keep yourself... believing in the things that you believe and saying the things that you believe when you know that you're going to suffer consequences for that." – Wagner Moura (06:01)
  • Moura discusses the difficulties in releasing his politically charged film Marigela under Bolsonaro’s rule, citing governmental opposition to the film’s anti-dictatorship message.

Brazilian Cultural Moments

• Carnival as Emotional Solace
  • Mendonça Filho highlights a memorable scene where, after receiving devastating news, Marcelo joins a Carnival parade, reflecting the Brazilian custom of postponing problems until after the festivities.
    • "In Brazil, we have a very strong carnival culture, and if you have a problem, you'll think about it after Carnival." – Kleber Mendonça Filho (05:18)
• Portraits of Dictators
  • Discussion of the prevalence of dictator portraits in public buildings, a subtle but powerful commentary on power and memory in Brazil.

Character Study: Marcelo

• A Regular Man of Principle
  • Both guests describe Marcelo as an everyman who remains steadfast to his values even as the world turns against him, inspired by those persecuted for simply being themselves.
    • "I think he's a man that's sticking with the values that he has when everything around him is saying the opposite of what he believes..." – Wagner Moura (05:51)
• Flawed but Relatable
  • Debate over Marcelo’s flaws, with Mendonça Filho referencing Hitchcock’s North by Northwest as inspiration for a protagonist constantly reacting to absurd, perilous situations.
    • "He's always reacting to the most absurd situations... and he's very easy to relate to. And this is something I always saw in Wagner..." – Kleber Mendonça Filho (09:01)
  • Acknowledgement that not all character questions are answered, inviting audiences to interpret for themselves.

Found Family and the "Refugee" House

• Sebastiana: The Matriarch
  • The character Sebastiana, a tough, loving matriarch caring for dissidents, stands out for her warmth, humor, and authenticity.
    • Moura describes acting alongside her as an awe-inspiring experience:
      • "It's me like in awe with that woman, you know, she's just wonderful." (15:33)
  • Sebastiana’s dynamic performances underscore the importance of presence and being open to spontaneity in acting.
    • "She just brings herself to the character and she's just there as herself... Every take was different..." – Wagner Moura (15:56)
  • Mendonça Filho reflects on her natural comedic timing, despite never intentionally aiming for laughs.

Memorable and Surreal Moments

Surreal Humor: The "Hairy Leg"

• A Bizarre Urban Legend as Social Commentary
  • A notable surrealist moment involves a "dismembered, hairy leg" kicking people, serving as a code used by censored journalists to critique police brutality.
    • "They would write... that the hairy leg attacked people in the park. And this, of course, became a phenomenon, it became an urban legend." – Kleber Mendonça Filho (18:27)
  • The inclusion highlights how absurdity and legend can serve as tools for truth in repressive climates.

Pop Culture & Jaws

• Jaws as Metaphor and Marker of Time
  • References to Spielberg’s Jaws in the narrative reflect both the cultural moment and Recife’s real-world shark issues.
    • "Movies are part of time. They're like time stamps for our lives. And I think that explains why Jaws is part of the heart of this film." – Kleber Mendonça Filho (20:19)

Reflections on Memory and Endings

Subtle Revelation and the Weight of Memory

• The film’s ending is intentionally understated, aligning with the movie’s themes of ambiguity, memory, and the lasting weight of infamy under dictatorship.
  • "The way we discover what happens to him is in tune with what the entire film is about... This is a film about memory also, and about the lack of memory." – Wagner Moura (21:49)

Tribute to Udo Kier

• Mendonça Filho pays tribute to the late Udo Kier, a key cast member, recalling his creativity, humor, and life-loving presence on set.
  • "He was the most loving, crazy German I've ever met in my life. And I was saddened to hear of his passing... I remember him with a lot of great fondness." – Kleber Mendonça Filho (23:04)

Film’s Reception & Closing Praises

• The film The Secret Agent was announced as winner of Best International Film and Best Actor (Wagner Moura) by the New York Film Critics Circle.
  • "We just heard that the film got best International film at the New York Film Critics Circle. And best actor for Wagner Mora." – Kleber Mendonça Filho (24:20)

Important Timestamps

• 01:47 — Mendonça Filho on the influence of Recife
• 03:44 — Moura on the power of acting in Portuguese
• 05:18 — Carnival scene as cultural touchstone
• 06:01 — Moura on resisting oppressive governments
• 09:01 — Inspirations for Marcelo's character
• 15:33 — Moura on acting with Sebastiana
• 18:27 — The "hairy leg" and censorship in Brazilian media
• 20:19 — The relevance of Jaws to the film and era
• 21:49 — Moura on the film's subtle, memory-driven ending
• 23:04 — Mendonça Filho on Udo Kier’s legacy
• 24:20 — Film's major awards announced

Notable Quotes

• "When I speak Portuguese, it feels like the words... come out of my mouth with memory."
  — Wagner Moura (03:44)
• "In Brazil, we have a very strong carnival culture...if you have a problem, you'll think about it after Carnival."
  — Kleber Mendonça Filho (05:18)
• "Sometimes people are persecuted just by the fact that they are who they are."
  — Wagner Moura (06:01)
• "She just brings herself to the character and she's just there as herself... Every take was different..."
  — Wagner Moura on Sebastiana (15:56)
• "Movies are part of time. They're like time stamps for our lives."
  — Kleber Mendonça Filho (20:19)
• "The way we discover what happens to him is in tune with what the entire film is about."
  — Wagner Moura (21:49)
• "He was the most loving, crazy German I've ever met in my life."
  — Kleber Mendonça Filho on Udo Kier (23:04)

Summary Takeaway

This episode offers a rich exploration of Brazilian history, resistance, and the power of local culture through the lens of The Secret Agent. Alison Stewart skillfully guides her guests in revealing how art, place, and memory intertwine, both reflecting and shaping societal struggles—past and present. The episode is as much a celebration of cinema as it is a meditation on authenticity, resilience, and the subtle ways that humor, pain, and love coexist under political duress.