Jerry Barmash (3:21)

Alison, thanks again for having me.

Alison Stewart (3:23)

As someone who worked in local news broadcast for years, what was your initial reaction to the news that WCBS was closing?

Jerry Barmash (3:30)

Well, you know, I wrote on Facebook as soon as I saw it. First of all, when I first saw it on Facebook, I actually had to read the article like three or four times to make sure this is actually going to happen. It was, as I wrote, sad but not unexpected, as you kind of alluded in the open there. This was something with the bankruptcy that Odyssey went through and the change of ownership, really twice between intercom and into Odyssey, it was really something. You could see the handwriting on the wall over the last two, three years. So it was not something that was completely surprising, but it was still shocking nonetheless. And you also would see that on the news feeds on Facebook, whether it was listeners or people in the business, it was really a gut punch.

Alison Stewart (4:21)

When you take off your journalist hat and you put on your New Yorker hat, what did CBS mean to you? What did it provide for you?

Jerry Barmash (4:28)

Wcbs, you know, you had two all news stations. You had CBS and you had wins. For the city, for the five boroughs, it was wins, the coverage that they provided for people who are in the suburbs, Long island especially, it was wcbs. And another big difference that the CBS provided over the decades, we're talking 57 years, they they provided more of not just as a family, as a stability, but they were giving audiences this personality that you didn't get from wins. And they made that conscious effort to do that also, because you had usually two anchors together and they bounced off of each other flawlessly. And also when they would bounce off with the reporter in the field. So there was that difference was dramatic and I preferred that some people preferred it the other way, but I definitely was more in the CBS camp.

Alison Stewart (5:35)

Let's take some calls. Jacqueline is calling from Port Washington, but grew up in Queens. Hi, Jacqueline. Thanks for calling all of it.

Caller/Listener (5:42)

Hi there.

Alison Stewart (5:45)

Tell us what WCS meant to you.

Caller/Listener (5:46)

Yeah, it was growing up since I was probably in the womb. It was the soundtrack that I grew up in. It was with it was on every day in the kitchen with my mom and dad. And then as I got older and was either living in the city in graduate school or even in Connecticut undergrad, like I could still get wcbs. And it was so centering for me. And it was all the anchors and their voices. It made me feel so made me feel like home. And I am so sad, so sad that these voices that have been in my heart and in my home my whole life will no longer be there. So I'm going to miss the station, but I am so grateful to have had it for 60 years of my life.

Alison Stewart (6:41)

So, Jacqueline, thank you so much for calling in. Let's talk to Jerry. He's calling from Kings Point. Hi, Jerry.

Caller/Listener (6:47)

Yeah, hi, Alison. And hi, Jerry. I began listening to the station back in the mid-1970s. So it's a long run for me. First class news organization. This is a big setback for local journalism. And I really hope that the Paley center can acquire some of their audio archive before Audacy decides to destroy it or delete it like MTV and Comedy Central did with their great content. They just wiped it out without letting anyone know in advance. And I wish someone would create an 880Alumni website so that we could find out where all these great anchors and reporters are working next so we can continue to follow their great work. Thank you.

Alison Stewart (7:31)

Thank you so much for calling in listeners. We want to hear from you. Did you grow up listening to WCBS on the radio or what was the role of WCBs? What did it play in your life? Did you wake up two in the morning and listen while on the commute or were you a cab driver? Listen to CBS? 2124-3396-9221-2433-933, WNYC. Or maybe you worked at CBS as a journalist, producer, anchor. How did you react to the news? What are your prominent memories? 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692. Our social media is available as well at all of it, wnyc. So, Jerry, while people are calling in, I want to read this post from someone from wcbs. Steve Scott said, today will be my final day. It hurts to even type those words. You are connected to a lot of the people who worked at wcbs. What have you observed about the general reactions of the veterans of cbs?

Jerry Barmash (8:27)

Yeah, I'm friends with some of them, including I know we have someone calling shortly who is a longtime reporter. Yeah, there was that really the sense, I think gut punch. I said that before and I think that someone on the air had said that as well. I think it was Wayne Cabot, who's one of the, you know, fixtures of the station for, I don't know, the number 34, 35 years, something along those lines. It, it hurts, it really hurts because the listeners have had that voice of the station for decades. The people who have been on there 30, 35 years, they are just, I, I think the person that was on before just, you know, said it perfect. Purposely or per, you know, perfectly. Excuse me, that it just has been so entrenched in their lives, whether they were a listener or they, they worked there. And, you know, this is, as somebody also wrote that this is the temple of Murrow and this is cbs. So another person who I know who had been there for many years said while the station is going and, you know, format and all of that, that's hard enough, but to think that the station's call letters won't be there, the iconic wcbs, that hurt him even more.

Alison Stewart (9:56)

Let's talk about the business developments of WCBS shutting its doors. How do we get to this point? What were the circumstances that led to this happening?

Jerry Barmash (10:06)

You know, a lot of this is, you know, it's, it's a simple thing, but it's, it's really, it's a cost cutting measure. When you, you change ownership, that, that becomes the, you know, it's an issue about the bottom line. It's simple enough, but it really became, it was, it was cbs, it was Intercom, and then it became Odyssey. And you could see the two radio stations, the two news stations, WINS and cbs, which were together for a number of years and they were even consolidating at some points. It was, it was a path that was not going to continue having the two stations. And clearly they, they, they wanted to save money with that and, and it was no longer going to be viable for them financially.

Alison Stewart (11:03)

Let's talk to Frank, who is calling in from New York on line five. Hi, Frank, thank you so much for calling in.

Caller/Listener (11:10)

Hey, thanks for having me. You know, Wayne Cabot, who is the most recognizable news voice in New York City, he and I started in radio together. We started at a small radio station in the northwest corner of New Jersey. And if you can believe it, and I'll tell you more about this, he was 17 at the, he was an intern that came to work every day on a moped. And I was 21 years old and I was, quote, unquote, the news director because I was the only one in the newsroom. But, you know, Wayne and I went on to Great careers. I know he did. I did as well. I worked as a reporter at Channel 9. I worked briefly at All News 88 as well. News 12 New Jersey, where I hosted the morning show and so on. But, you know, I must tell you, in those early days, and we're going back 40 years or so, he and I used to obsess about all news 88. And what I remember distinctly is he used to tell me again and again, I will be on that station one day and I will be on all news 88. It was. It was his dream to be on that station. And I'm so happy. He was there for 30 some odd years, but, you know, he knew it even then at the age of 17 and 18 years old, he knew exactly where he was going with regard to the station going off the air. It is, as Jerry said a moment ago, a gut punch. I mean, we listened to all news 88, even when we started at that station. But, you know, all. Every newsroom in America, I should say every news in the metropolitan. Every newsroom in the metropolitan area has, up until, you know, next Monday, had all news 88 on in their newsroom. I mean, that and WINS were the two great stations. And it really is. It's a great loss. And, you know, I've texted with my friend Wayne and I will talk with him. He's my oldest, dearest friend in radio. But I know he's got to be hurting as well. And we all are. Every New Yorker should be hurting with news like this.

Alison Stewart (12:54)

Thank you so much, Frank. Let's talk to Deborah on line seven. Hey, Deborah, thanks for calling, all of it.

Caller/Listener (13:01)

Oh, thank you for having me. I can't believe I finally got on. I've called so many times, I don't get in. So. Wow, thanks anyhow. I am devastated. My husband told me yesterday that 880 was going off, and I couldn't really believe it. And then I always listened to you, Allison, and I'm like, oh, my God, it really is happening. It is a gut punch. I'm 70 years old. I've been retired now for seven years. So now I listen to it more. But truly, I listen to wnyc. I listen to Brian, I listen to you. But then when it's on the 8th most hours, I will switch and just listen to them, especially around rush hour. And I just love listening to traffic that I'm not in. And I love the banter, and I really trust their weather more than I trust my iPhone. And I don't know. I'm really really gonna miss him. It makes me think of my mom. She always had the radio on. She had that on like all day long. And it's just really sad. Really, really sad. And they're good reporters. They're just, you know. Yeah, it's really too bad.

Alison Stewart (14:03)

Well, I'm glad you called and got on the air, Deborah. You know, I'm talking to Jerry Barmasch. He's written the book here. Now the news an inside scoop into the New York's Best Love News anchors. We're reflecting on the closing of wcbs. You know, like Deborah said, they had great reporters. If you would just take a minute to reflect on what this means, the loss for the news industry, for local news.

Jerry Barmash (14:26)

Oh, you know it. That is the worst part of this because these people are not getting replaced. You're not laying off people and putting in others or consolidating with another station. It's, it's gone. And as I said earlier, where it really hurts is in the suburbs, the Long Islands, the New Jerseys, the Connecticut's and Westchesters where there was much more of a concentration for the, for the local news product than you would get again in, in the city where winds covers that. And you don't get that. You get that in the papers in a news day Patch News 12 on TV. But, but you don't get that in the way that CBS covered. So that, that is where it's going to hurt. And, and I don't know that WINS will, you know, pick up the slack. They may bring in more reporters that were on cbs, but I don't think they're going to be able to pick up the slack that you had from CBS covering those areas. So that's really where you're going to see the, the problems. You're going to see the difference and it's going to local news and for listeners, that's where you're going to feel the difference.

Alison Stewart (15:45)

Our phone lines are lit up. We'll get to more calls about the end of wcbs. We also a super caller, someone related to WCBS on the line. And we'll have more with Jerry Barmash discussing the closing of wcbs. Stay with us. This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alex. Hi, I'm Alison Stewart. Today we're reflecting on the closing of WCBS and we're taking your calls. My ride along for this is Jerry Barmasch. He wrote a book called Hear now the An Inside Scoop into New York's Best Loved Anchors. We have our caller on the line now, who worked at WCBS for almost 30 years, Peter Haskell is nice enough to call in from he's on vacation. Hi, Peter.

Caller/Listener (16:35)

Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Alison Stewart (16:38)

Now, you left the station in 2022 for medical reasons, but you still put in a long time at wcbs. May I first ask for your initial emotions and reactions when you first heard the news?

Caller/Listener (16:51)

It's just heartbreaking. I mean, it's a place that I put a lot of time and energy and effort into, as did so many other people and radio people, especially people who made it to 880. This was not just a job. This was a career. This was a passion. This was a way of life where you want them to be on the big stories. You want them to be out there telling stories. And people didn't just punch clock. They put in their heart and soul and their blood, sweat and tears. So it's just absolutely heartbreaking.

Alison Stewart (17:25)

When did you first realize, I want to work there, I want to work at wcbs.

Caller/Listener (17:30)

So I grew up as a kid and I always wanted to be on the radio. And I think I started out, I wanted to do sports. And then as I got into the radio business and started working, I worked doing news and I saw, well, 880. There is no better place to do radio than 880. So it was a place that was honestly, I never dreamed that I would make it there. And somehow I did and lasted almost 30 years and covered some great stories and frankly, had the time of my life.

Alison Stewart (18:03)

Share one great story with us.

Caller/Listener (18:07)

Oh my goodness, there are so many. I think the most important story that we told was post 9 11. I mean, I covered 9 11. We covered 9 11, which was hugely important. But I think the 911 hell story was one that I put a lot of time and energy into and covered a lot. And it was really important to tell the stories of the responders who are sick, to get their stories out there, to talk to elected officials, to get them to see how important it was to have a World Trade center health program, to have a victim compensation fund. Both of those programs were eventually passed and funded by Congress. But here's the deal. We went out and we talked to people and we pressed elected officials about this. And this is true of a lot of stories and this is true of a lot of local news. If you have an elected official who puts out a statement, doesn't answer questions, if you have people posting on social media, it's like screaming into the void. It is not the same as vetting and telling Critical, important, accurate information in a fair way and holding elected officials to account. Social media and press releases won't do that. Local news does that.

Alison Stewart (19:27)

Peter Haskell, we thank you so much for your time and for your effort at wcbs. We appreciate it.

Caller/Listener (19:34)

Thanks for having me.

Alison Stewart (19:36)

Jerry. Like many local news outlets, CBS covered historic events. The 77 blackout, the 993 blackout to 9 11. We do have an archival clip from WCBS from the morning of 9 11. Let's listen. We hear the voice of Tom KAMINSKY in the 80 chopper trying to make a sense of what's going on.

Caller/Listener (19:54)

We are just coming up on this scene. This is easily 3/4 of the way up. We are, this has, whatever has occurred.

Jerry Barmash (20:03)

Has just occurred within, within minutes and.

Caller/Listener (20:07)

We are trying to determine exactly what that is. But currently we have a lot of smoke at the top of the towers of the World Trade Center. We will keep you posted.

Jerry Barmash (20:14)

Tom, we just saw that smoke go up at about the same time you did.

Caller/Listener (20:18)

It was like one huge.

Jerry Barmash (20:20)

That's exactly what we had seen. We had seen what we had turned around.

Caller/Listener (20:24)

Jeff. We were at the George Washington Bridge. We had seen a fireball.

Jerry Barmash (20:28)

And I can tell you it appears.

Caller/Listener (20:30)

As though something has gone into the World Trade Center.

Alison Stewart (20:33)

Jerry, as you listen to that, what do historic moments like what we just heard from that clip demonstrate about what WCBS meant to the city?

Jerry Barmash (20:42)

Well for one people knew whenever there was a crisis among other times. But when there was a crisis you knew you could go right to 880 on your dial. The other thing is just from that little clip, even though we didn't know exactly what was going to be happening, it was possibly a plane at that point and certainly didn't know it was a terrorist attack. There was calmness, there was no panic in those anchors voices and that is the credibility and the, the, the, the, the depth of their knowledge and their, their, their experience just, just on display. And that is what the listeners knew that they were getting every time that they listened. And that was Jeff Kaplan by the way, and Pat Carroll. I don't know if we heard her in that but. And of course Tom Kaminsky who was the first person to report anything with the 911 attacks.

Alison Stewart (21:41)

We got a traffic here. It says traffic and weather on the 8th. I recently explained to my kids the meaning of the brilliant Fountain of Wayne lyric. We get together like traffic and weather. They had no idea the point of reference and now they'll never know for themselves. Another text. Remember that WCBS AM in New York City was the flagship Station of the CBS radio network. So this is also about the dissolution of nation old school media that was about news before the news division had to show a profit, a great loss for democracy and accurate reporting. Let's take a couple more calls. Let's go to Peter, who's been calling from Rego Park. Hi, Peter, thanks for holding.

Caller/Listener (22:19)

Hey. Hi. Thank you very much. Yeah, for me, 880 was half of what I called called approach control. So before our phones told us where to go and what to think, whenever I'd be coming back into the city, I had 880 and 1010 wins as my 1 and 2 presets on the AM band. And so as I was coming back into the city, about an hour out or so, I toggled between these traffic on the eights and traffic on the ones, and then I flipped back to 880 and got the news. So between the two of them, they got me set up to figure out the best path back into the city and then also caught me up on all the local news. So I kind of was grounded again to know what was happening back home. And that's how I used it. It's a shame to see it go. I understand in this day and age some of the forces causing it to do so, but it really was a great memory that I share with other people all the time.

Alison Stewart (23:16)

Peter, thank you so much. Let's talk to Kara, who's calling in from East Norwich, Long Island. Hey, Kara, thank you so much for calling all of it.

Caller/Listener (23:24)

Oh, thank you. I have to say, first of all, I always loved the Tiffany Network, but I have not forgiven management for what they did to WCBS sm, where you could walk into any pizzeria in any area of the five boroughs and Long island and hear the radio as far as CBS am. What are they, nuts? You know, this is ridiculous. I had CBS Morning when I would commute to St. John's and every afternoon as I would commute back. I also, when I started my employment, would turn it on when I was driving to Riverhead or Poughkeepsie or Staten island, and I would know the weather and the traffic. But now we're going to have to rely solely on winds, which, bless them, they're good reporters, but their power isn't enough to get you to hear it out in Riverhead or Poughkeepsie. So you're kind of going to be stuck having to rely on gps, which, as we all know, is not exactly the oracle of the ages.

Alison Stewart (24:22)

Thank you so much, Kara, for your call. I want to bring in WINS into the conversation. You touched on this a little bit earlier. How were the broadcast styles different between the two stations? Between CBS and wins?

Jerry Barmash (24:36)

Yeah, I mean CBS was always, and I'm sure, and by the way, they were not always owned by the same company. CBS was CBS and WINS was Westinghouse until 80s or 90s. I'm not sure the exact date, but WINS was always also, the format was a 22 minute. They had three cycles where they would do the headlines. You give us 22 minutes, we'll give you the world. And they would rotate and recycle every 20 minutes. CBS was every half hour including the business news. And of course on the 8th they did the, the traffic and weather and the sports at 15 and 45. But they were, CBS was always that personality driven where again, they had two anchors, usually not, not on overnights and, and usually in the evenings they had solos. But during the morning drive and afternoon drive, two anchors and they could banter a bit, they could have a little bit more personality with each other and they also had personality. And when I say personality, even just asking questions, they could just have a little bit more of a spark between the anchor and the reporter in the field. And CBS would not usually do that. They would ask if there was something, you know, serious on the scene, but it was more of a straight news anchor going to the reporter and, and you saw the difference. And, and certainly WINS has been effective in doing it. I mean they're, they're, you know, a top station and then they're going to remain on the air. But it was certainly a preference, you know, which one did you prefer? And I, I just preferred the way CBS delivered the news. And I, I listened since the 70s and I could just run off a few names. Pat Parson and Ben Farnswort. Noons were, were a terrific combination. Jim Donnelly and Robert Vaughn in the mornings. And I was just listening the other day, preparing to speak today and just listening back to some of these air checks of them and, and they are just, just classic anchors. Just the way they sounded was just, was great. I, I listened and I would get goosebumps. And by the way, also Craig Allen, I think you mentioned Craig Allen at the beginning. He has been really in a way the voice of the station. He has been on there for more than 40, I believe it's 42 or 43 years. And of course whenever there's a storm, whether it's blizzards, anything, thunderstorms, certainly what we had in the last 24 to 48 hours Craig Allen has been there and weather has been such a vital part of the city and it is really hard to imagine not having Craig Allen to hear whenever there's bad weather.

Alison Stewart (27:28)

This is from X. Like So many news radio 88 was part of our family history. Growing up in New Jersey. I went to graduate school in Chapel Hill, North Carolina in 91. I was always astonished that I could pick up WCBS news radio so far away. It was like a lifeline to the city in pre Internet years. Let's talk to Robert. Is Robert there? Hi Robert, thanks for calling in.

Caller/Listener (27:56)

I am, yeah, thank you. Yeah, so I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy and I'm listening to you as I'm driving home from a dentist appointment. Driving to the dentist appointment this morning, I just had to look at both WAZE and my car GPS and jump back and forth between the two of them to see the best way to get to my appointment on time. So how does this tie into WCBS radio? Well, CBS was, was part of my Friday afternoon ritual as I drive from my home in Milford, New Jersey to the Upper west side in New York City. Friday afternoons I have the dilemma, gee, do I take the Holland Tunnel or the Lincoln Tunnel? Where is traffic going to be worse? And so at 4:08pm I could tune into CBS 880 and catch the traffic on, on the eights and then three minutes later I catch the traffic on, on wins 10:10 at, at 4:11 and then do the same thing 10 minutes later just to see which one was gonna, which one I believed. Oh, and then, and then in between on the, on the fives or at least the fifteens, Bloomberg would do the traffic.

Alison Stewart (29:14)

We got you there. Thank you so much for calling in. Let's talk to Bob who's calling from Massachusetts. Hi Bob, thanks for calling all of it.

Caller/Listener (29:21)

Hi Alison and Jerry. I worked in Vermont Radio for 25 years and long before that, when I was 8 or 9 years old, I became lawyer at WCBS. So this is a, this is a blow personally, but this is the second time I've been to New York City radio phone call because the first time was on WCBS story here there'd be a storm in Vermont and I had a story that I had loaded into my local station's computer for the next morning I worked evenings. And so for grins and giggles, I thought, well, I'll decide to call the network newsroom and see they want what I have. And they said sure, you know, well, here's your, here's your audio and sent us your script and that's it. And so I locked up my station, never heard from them again. And Saturday afternoon around 4:30, my phone starts buzzing. What the heck is this? And so I look down and it's friends of mine from all over the Northeast because it was December and 4:30 in the afternoon are telling me, bob, I heard your report on wcbs. I, I just did and it's, you know, it's from all over. There's a friend on the Cape, there's a friend in eastern Maine, there's a friend in, in Ontario and there's another friend in the Carolinas. And, and they all, at some random moment, of course they played it multiple times throughout the evenings. And so that was like, wow, what.

Alison Stewart (31:05)

A great, it's a great story. I'm sorry, I'm gonna cut you off there because running out of time. I do wanna ask. Thank you so much for calling, by the way. Bob. Jerry, this is a difficult time for local news outlets everywhere, including New York Public Radio which announced layoffs. As we look towards the future, what role do you think local broadcast news plays in the community?

Jerry Barmash (31:28)

I hope it plays an important role. Still. I, I don't, I don't think that this is the, the be all, end all. I think that we will still have local news and I think it's an important part of the community for forget, you know, for gathering your information. You, you, you know, people want to know what's going on and they're not going to always just get it on the local news at 11 o' clock at night unless it's rising to a level that, that will be, you know, a major story. So I, I think that people still want their news and need to get their news and hopefully there will be more ways for people to, to, to find it. Whether it's radio or not. I'm not sure and I don't know that WINS will automatically, you know, be filling the bill, but hopefully, and you know, and these reporters and anchors and staffers and all of these people, hopefully they'll be able to get more work. There's, there's writers and the guild and there's producers in, in the union and hopefully they will all find work at some point. We've all been down this road and I have too. If I could just add one quick thing on a personal note. I worked at cbs, certainly not at any level of these people that we've been talking about the, these greats. But I got to do business reports, not directly for the station. But I was on the station through the Wall Street Journal and that was, that was such a thrill to be actually on the station, you know, with the history of it, just to get on there. I interviewed for an anchor position at WCBS in the last few years and I've gotten jobs in radio. I've been on different stations and I've also not gotten job several. And you know, when it hurts and you move on. This was something different when I did not get that job. It, that was my own personal gut punch because I, I wanted to be on WCBS just, just to feel that I was with some of the all time greats. To be on that station, that was something that, just the fact that I got the interview, I'll never forget.

Alison Stewart (33:40)

Thank you to all the callers who called in and folks who texted us. And thanks so much to Jerry Barmas for reflecting on the closing of wcbs. Thank you, Jerry.

Jerry Barmash (33:51)

Thank you so much, Alison.

Alison Stewart (33:53)

Attention, party people. You're officially invited to the party shop at Michael's where you'll find hundreds of new Items starting at 99 cents with an expanded selection of party wear, balloons with helium included on select styles, decorations and more. Michael's is your one stop shop for celebrating everything from birthdays to bachelorette parties and baby showers to golden anniversaries. Visit Michaels store or michaels.com today to supply your next party.

Caller/Listener (34:20)

I'm gonna put you on nephew.

Jerry Barmash (34:22)

All right, unc.

Alison Stewart (34:22)

Welcome to McDonald's. Can I take your order, miss?

Caller/Listener (34:25)

I've been hitting up McDonald's for years. Now it's back. We need snack wraps. What's a snack wrap? It's the return of something great. Snack wrap is back.