Podcast Summary: "What is the Best Stephen King Novel? Let's Rank Them"

Podcast: All Of It
Host: Koosha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Neil McRobert (horror critic, podcast host, Esquire contributor)
Date: April 16, 2024

Episode Overview

In honor of the 50th anniversary of Stephen King's debut novel Carrie, "All Of It" delves deep into King's prolific career, his cultural impact, and—most importantly—ranks his major works. Koosha Navadar welcomes Neil McRobert, renowned horror critic and King devotee, who has read, ranked, and analyzed all 75 of King’s books for Esquire. Together with listeners’ calls and questions, they explore what makes King so enduring, debate his best and worst works, and discuss King's legacy in horror and mainstream literature.

Main Discussion Points

Stephen King's Cultural Status and Impact

• King as an Institution:
  • McRobert emphasizes that King is more than a writer; he is an "industry, an esthetic, a genre of one."
  • Quote (Neil McRobert, 04:50):

    “There is nobody in the 180 episodes I’ve done, there is nobody who isn’t in some way inspired by Stephen King… He set the zeitgeist for decades.”

• *King has defined horror for several generations; his work’s tendrils reach into film, television, and theater (e.g., the Carrie musical).
• Enduring Influence:
  • Even those reacting against King are playing on his field—he has redefined what horror can be.

Personal King Journeys

• Neil's Introduction:
  • Introduced to Carrie as a child by his father ("I don’t know why he was telling me this story. I was eight. It was wildly inappropriate…").
  • It remains Neil's lifelong favorite ("I love that book to distraction." [05:49]).

The Art and Challenge of Ranking

• How the Ranking Was Done:
  • Neil read all King’s books—chronologically over 16 months—tracking his rankings by score.
  • Rankings fluctuate over time—personal experience versus cultural importance.
• Metrics used: Personal resonance, cultural influence, storytelling impact, and the “work” a novel has done in public imagination. (“You cannot extricate King from his impact on the genre.” [08:32])

Notable Listener Contributions

Callers Highlight Favorite Works:

• Carrie (and its unlikely journey to publication) [09:33]
• The Shawshank Redemption and The Green Mile (book-by-book serial format praised)
• The Stand—especially its haunting scene in the Holland Tunnel
• Reverence for King’s short stories and novellas (Different Seasons, The Jaunt)

Deep Dive: Ranking the Greatest

Neil's #1 King Book: It

• Why It Sits on Top:
  • Captures “the essence of childhood,” friendship, bravery, and the “best parts of being alive.”
  • Quote (Neil McRobert, 12:54):

    “That book is not about the clown. That book is about bravery and friendship and love and all the good things about life... It's a thousand-page sonnet to joy and love. I love it so much.”

• King’s Use of Horror:
  • Neil sees King as an American realist, using supernatural trappings to showcase the struggle for joy, justice, and decency. (Asked King directly—King replied, “it doesn’t even leak.” [14:27])
• Related Quote (15:22):
  • “He seems to really care about the best parts of humanity and he seems to believe that good will out…”

Recommendations for Young Readers

• It is formative but contains complex and adult themes—parents should talk through it with younger teens.
• Eyes of the Dragon—a fantasy novel written for King’s children.
• Fairy Tale—more accessible, riffing on fairy tale traditions.
• Different Seasons—includes “The Body” (Stand By Me), ideal for young teens.
  • Advice (Neil McRobert, 16:01):

    “…start with those three [for a 13-year-old]: Eyes of the Dragon, Fairy Tale, and The Body.”

Hot Takes and Controversial Rankings

• Pet Sematary—often beloved, but Neil finds it “bleak, black-hearted, vicious horror”—not the kind of King he prefers (21:03).
• From a Buick 8—a less-discussed novel in Neil’s personal top ten due to its underrated qualities.
• Revival—praised by others, but Neil finds the payoff lacking, despite a strong ending.

King's Prodigious Output

• How does he do it?
  • Neil’s theory: King would be writing regardless of fame or fortune; storytelling is his compulsion.
  • Quote (23:20):

    “If King had never published Carrie… I still think he would have written those books. I think he’s just a compulsive storyteller.”

On Writing: King’s Advice for Writers

• On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft is recommended; King’s intuition for character and story is, according to Neil, second only to Dickens for populist, character-driven fiction.
  • Quote (24:17):

    “He writes about real blue-collar people without any degree of pretension... his work with character is the thing that really sets him above anyone else in most genres, not just horror.”

Pitfalls in King's Writing – Diversity & Representation

• Topic prompted by a caller referencing Scott Woods’ essay on the “magical Negro” trope, particularly regarding The Green Mile and It.
• Neil acknowledges critical issues especially in older works; complex portrayals like Dick Hallorann in The Shining offer nuance, but problems remain.
  • Quote (Neil McRobert, 27:49):

    “There is certainly a thread of black characters being treated in a certain way in King’s fiction.”

Love for Underrated and Maligned Books

• Tommyknockers—divides readers; some cite its “raw, hallucinatory power” born of personal struggle, while others find it unreadable.
• Cell—praised by a caller for its prescience and thrill.

Notable Quotes and Moments

• On King's Optimism:
  "[King] is not truly a horror writer... He seems to really care about the best parts of humanity and he seems to believe that good will out." (Neil McRobert, 14:27)

• On King’s Writing Compulsion:
  “If King had never published Carrie… I still think he would have written those books.” (Neil McRobert, 23:20)

• On The Depths of It:
  “It's a homage to all the best parts of being alive. I know it sounds really grandiose, but it's like a thousand-page sonnet to joy and love. I love it so much.” (Neil McRobert, 12:54)

• On Cultural Currency:
  “For example, I possibly wouldn’t have The Shining as high as I put it… but that book and that monolith… it’s such a cultural cornerstone that to not have The Shining in the top ten feels wrong.” (Neil McRobert, 07:37)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:44] – Episode theme and guest intro
• [04:50] – King’s impact as a cultural and creative force
• [05:49] – Neil’s first experience with King
• [06:41] – The process and metrics behind ranking the novels
• [09:33] – First listener call: Early opinions on Carrie and King's trajectory
• [11:28] – The story of Carrie’s near-destruction and Tabitha King’s role
• [12:54] – Why It is Neil’s top pick and his overarching theory on King
• [14:27] – King’s writing philosophy (confirmed by King himself)
• [15:46] – Listener Q: Which King books for young teens?
• [16:01] – Neil’s recommendations for younger readers
• [20:03] – Praise for King’s short stories, especially “The Jaunt”
• [21:03] – Why Neil ranks Pet Sematary lower
• [23:20] – Discussing King’s prolific output
• [24:17] – King’s prowess with character-driven storytelling
• [25:22] – Caller debate: Tommyknockers, King’s flaws, and a defense
• [27:47] – Discussion of King’s representation of Black characters
• [30:26] – What Neil wants from King in the future

Final Reflections

Neil McRobert closes by wishing for one more true “King” book—a massive, small-town horror epic, and perhaps the completion of The Talisman trilogy. Throughout, the conversation celebrates the range, depth, and staying power of Stephen King’s work, while also offering fair critique and engaging with the complexity of his legacy.

For anyone seeking either their first King novel or a new appreciation for his cultural stature and storytelling, this episode offers a roadmap—one filled with passion, opinion, and literary debate straight from King’s most ardent fans and critics.