Gabriel (2:56)

By the way, that word is snl.

Alison Stewart (2:58)

Particularly for high demand restaurants and bakeries. The line outside Radio Bakery in Greenpoint.

Gabriel (3:03)

Can stretch a full quarter of a mile. The pizza restaurant Lucali's has lines forming hours before they open for service. But these lines can sometimes create conflict with neighbors. Residents are often unhappy with long queues of people turning up outside their doors. What are businesses doing to help mitigate the situation? And is waiting online ever really worth it? Joining me to discuss it is Matt Yan, a real estate reporter for the New York Times. He is the author of the recent piece why Is There Always a Line? And why it at My Front Door? Matt, welcome to all of it.

Matt Yahn (3:38)

Thanks so much for having me.

Gabriel (3:39)

Listeners, we want to hear from you. Have you ever waited in a long line at a bakery, a restaurant, a store? Was it worth it? Would you wait in line for a sample sale? Rush tickets, snl, maybe you live near one of these lines. How do you feel about having long lines in your neighborhood? Our phone lines are open. 212-433-969-2212, wnyc. Okay. People know in New York they're going to have to wait online. Shakespeare in the park tickets, for example. What's new about this phenomenon?

Matt Yahn (4:12)

I don't think there's anything particularly new about this phenomenon. I mean, people have been waiting in line for years. But I think with social media, especially at restaurants, things go viral. Restaurants go viral. People see delicious food and they want to eat it. So then they wait in line and the lines just get really, really long and people are just crowding.

Gabriel (4:33)

Why did you decide that this was worth investigating for a piece? Because it's a long piece.

Matt Yahn (4:38)

Yeah, I think for me, I love to try new restaurants. I love to walk around. So I always saw these long lines. And as a real estate reporter, my editor always tells us every story is a real estate story. So I really thought about it as what is it like to live near one of these lines? Because that's a question I ask myself every day. Like, what is it like to be and live somewhere that might be inconvenient? So that's kind of where it got started for me.

Gabriel (5:05)

All right. The big question is, do people wait in line or do you wait online? Where do you stand?

Matt Yahn (5:13)

I believe if I'm a New Yorker, I wait online, right?

Gabriel (5:17)

Yes. Yes.

Matt Yahn (5:19)

Okay.

Gabriel (5:20)

Sometimes the paper Record says in line, but we're saying online because we're from New York.

Matt Yahn (5:25)

Right, Right, right.

Gabriel (5:26)

Okay, good. Have you ever waited online for a really long time?

Matt Yahn (5:32)

I have, actually, for this story, I lined up at Radio Bakery's new location on opening day in Prospect Heights. It was chilly. It was freezing. We were wrapped around the block, and I think I waited in line for about an hour and 15 minutes until I got to the front.

Alison Stewart (5:50)

Did you know what you wanted to order or did you get to the front and think, oh, my gosh, now I have to order?

Matt Yahn (5:56)

Kind of both. I mean, I knew I had a sense, but also, like, you see all the pastries in front of you, and I started to panic. I was like, ooh, which one do I want? So I did kind of, if that makes sense.

Alison Stewart (6:10)

What did you order?

Matt Yahn (6:11)

What did I order? I got a triple chocolate croissant. I got a sesame scallion twist. I got this brown butter corn cake and a chocolate chip cookie.

Alison Stewart (6:20)

Oh, wow, you went for all of it.

Matt Yahn (6:22)

Yeah. I mean, if I waited in line for that long, I might as well just get as much as I could.

Alison Stewart (6:28)

My guest is New York Times reporter Matt Yahn. We're talking about his recent article, why is there Always a line? And why is it at my front door? Listeners, we want to hear from you. Tell us, have you ever waited in a long line at a. At a bakery, at a restaurant or a stor it worth it? What did you get? What did you wait in line for? Or maybe you live near one of these lines. How do you feel about having long lines in your neighborhood? Give us a call at 212-433-969-2212, wnyc. You can call in and join us on air or you can reach out to us. You can text that number or reach out. On our social media, why do people tell you they were willing to wait in such a long lines?

Matt Yahn (7:11)

That's a good question. I think it's also just because they're excited to try these things. Like, I think when you see a long line, at least for me, I'm always intrigued. I'm always like, what are these people waiting online for? So that, I mean, I guess I'm also a journalist, so that's why I'm just inherently curious. But I think people just see a crowd and are intrigued to see if they want to get a bite of it or a taste of it, too.

Gabriel (7:37)

What's been the role of social media?

Matt Yahn (7:39)

I mean, I think now, it's just now, nowadays it's just so much easier to go viral. So things can get promoted very quickly. People can see things at a rapid rate. And I think at least among my friends, we share things amongst each other. So that's like, just builds what they say, builds the hype in a way. And I think social media really builds that hype for some of these restaurants. That brings all the Crowds to these places.

Gabriel (8:07)

What are some of the ways that restaurants and store owners have come up with ways to. To mitigate the effects of having such long lines in the neighborhood?

Matt Yahn (8:16)

So I spoke with one restaurant owner, a restaurant called Miriam and Park Slope. Their lines were a lot longer. I would say maybe 10 years ago, he was telling me. And they switched to open an hour earlier so then they could kind of deal with the crowds. Like that Radio Bakery and Prospect Heights. They installed frontages six feet from their entrance, so it kind of guides the line away from the front of other businesses.

Gabriel (8:45)

Print Hom's opened up, and they have an interesting solution to deal with their lines. What did they do?

Matt Yahn (8:50)

So they. Interestingly enough, for residents who live upstairs in one of the condos, residents who live at 1 Wall street can flash a QR code through their app and show a security guard and just get in. They can also book a private shopping appointment or get. Or even get clothes sent up to their apartment for a fitting.

Gabriel (9:09)

Are the long lines outside of businesses actually beneficial to the restaurants and the bakeries, or is there a higher cost for such a demand?

Matt Yahn (9:20)

That wasn't immediately clear to me. I think I. I guess I would think if there's a lot of people waiting, and that would drive business up.

Gabriel (9:29)

But, yeah, this is interesting. Somebody wrote, texted us. Many residents on Roosevelt island are complaining that tourists are taking the tram in hordes, creating lines that make it difficult for residents to commute home. How do residents feel about having these small businesses? And you hope small businesses do well, but there's a line in front of your door. What do people tell you?

Matt Yahn (9:55)

Well, the line can be in front of your door, or it can be near your door, but at the end of the day, when it's a part of your routine, that's when it gets really complicated. I talked to one resident who lives around the corner from Chrissy's Pizza in Greenpoint, and she was frustrated that the line got in the way of her. Of the city bike stand, which she uses to commute every single day. And when people were eating pizzas on the city bike stand, she couldn't get to her bike. And she described to me, she was like, I'm like, getting ready to put on my helmet. I'm putting on my mittens, and I just have an audience. And then I have just this line of people just watching me try to put my bike in or get ready to get on the bike. So even though it's not in front of your front door, sometimes your front door, especially in New York can be your entire block. Cause it's part of your routine, too.

Gabriel (10:44)

Talk to Gabriel from the Upper west side. Hi, Gabriel. Thanks for calling. All of it.

Madeline (10:48)

Hey, Allison, how's it going? Good afternoon, folks.

Gabriel (10:52)

Good afternoon.

Madeline (10:53)

Yeah, I just wanted to say in. In a nutshell, I just want to say, you know, with. With few exceptions, waiting online is probably one of the most un. New York things you could ever do. You know, And I just think about all the people who, like, you know, the real New Yorkers, even though those of us who weren't necessarily born here, but, you know, maybe moved here in the 50s and 60s, you know, you guys came here because of all, like, the line waiting that occurs in the rest of American society. You know, and that's probably why New York is so fast as well. Like, you go. You go into an Automat, you get a cup of coffee real fast. That's what New York has always been about. So when there were lines that were worth it, it was worth it. Like, you're right. Shakespeare in the park, maybe the sample sale at Barney's. But this current thing that we're talking about now, this line, this kind of fetishization of the line as a simulacrum of a New York experience. And, you know, I'll say anecdotally, there was the best bagel shop in New York. Used to be near my house on 107th and Broadway, absolute Bagels. And they had the best bagels in New York. Everybody knew. And then overnight, at some point, a line showed up. And, I mean, I could do the math. It had to do with someone's, you know, lame tick tock, probably. And it, like, you know, it really. It kind of took, like, the. I don't know, for one, it deterred me from just walking in and getting a bagel. But then when Absolute Bagels closed a couple weeks ago, I couldn't help but feel happy because I was like, man, at least that stupid line, you know, filled with, like, some vanilla milk toast, fake New Yorkers, is not going to be clogging up Broadway on 107th street every Sunday morning for no reason.

Gabriel (12:34)

Yeah, Gabriel, thanks so much for calling in. Let's talk to Madeline. Calling in from the Lower east side. Hey, Madeline, thanks for calling, all of it.

Listener (12:42)

Hey, I'm so happy to be talking to you today.

Gabriel (12:44)

I'm so glad you called in.

Listener (12:47)

I live on the Lower east side, about two blocks south of Katz's. You know, I've lived in New York for almost 10 years now. And I will say I think the only line worth waiting in line for is the Katz's Deli. You can't make that at home. You can't find it anywhere else. Every other line, though, I do roll my eyes. Especially living in the neighborhood where there are so many lines.

Alison Stewart (13:07)

Why do you consider Katz is worth waiting for?

Listener (13:11)

I think there's nothing like it. I mean, I have had a lot of delicious deli sandwiches in my life. And it is so iconic. Just the experience, the fact that you have a ticket, you walk in. It's not just about the food. Like, you see a lot of people waiting for. It's the entire cast's experience that hasn't changed over the many years it's been there as a tourist or a local. The food and the experience is worth it every time. And you get to meet. You get a little slice of New York in it as well.

Alison Stewart (13:37)

Thank you so much for calling in. Could you tell from people that you interviewed if they had. What's the right word? If they sort of had a criteria for what was good to stand in line for? Like, you can stand in line for Katz's, but not for the new bakery. It's okay to stand in line for Shakespeare in the Park. We heard that. But not for this other thing.

Matt Yahn (13:59)

Not to people that I spoke with. Particularly, if anything, that one person who lives outside that pizza place. She was like, I live nearby, but I still haven't been able to go.

Alison Stewart (14:07)

Just be able to get in.

Matt Yahn (14:09)

Just because the line is so long, she can't even wait.

Alison Stewart (14:12)

You know, I read about. It's near here, and I've been following it. Apollo Bagels. What happened with Apollo Bagels?

Matt Yahn (14:19)

I believe from my understanding, the landlord of Apollo Bagels threatened to evict Apollo Bagels because of its line.

Alison Stewart (14:29)

It's so interesting because I've been watching. I've been going by it, and I won't say what it is, but it seems to be one of the stores in the surrounding area doesn't really like to have Apollo Bagels in front of it. The other stores are okay with it. Does it create any sort of bad feeling among different businesses? Like, your business is popular? My business might not be as popular.

Matt Yahn (14:52)

I don't know. I think it depends on the business. I mean, I would think that having a crowd of people on the block would bring more people to other businesses, but I can't say for certain. Yeah, you would think, but I don't know.

Alison Stewart (15:04)

This text is funny. It says, in the summer of maybe 2008, I got in a big dumb Line in Brooklyn because the line looked like it ended in the middle of the street. People in the line didn't know what it was for. An hour later, a stranger handed me and three other people a hard hat, and we followed him down a manhole. We were treated to a completely illegal and unsanctioned tour of the abyss. Abandoned Court street station. That sounds like a good line. That sounds like a good line. The one place that everybody keeps talking.

Gabriel (15:37)

About is Radio Bakery.

Alison Stewart (15:40)

What did the people in the neighborhood tell you about how they felt about the line in Radio Bakery?

Matt Yahn (15:45)

Well, I spoke with one resident who lives on the same block in Greenpoint, and he was like, well, essentially, it is a long line, but at least I'm closer to a yummy pastry when I can, if I want to.

Gabriel (15:58)

What did he mean?

Matt Yahn (15:59)

He was like, well, if I really want. His favorite was the cheesy pretzel bear claw. And he was like, if I want something delicious, at least it's close by. And I can kind of tell when the line is short so I can go in rather than just like, kind of peek your head out the door and see if. If the line is long, decide if now is a good time to go or not.

Gabriel (16:20)

All right.

Alison Stewart (16:20)

I stood in a really long line to get apartment RF4F to get cinnamon buns. We did a segment on cinnamon buns. I got them for his staff, and I waited for a really long time. There was a person on the line behind me not having line etiquette, in my opinion.

Matt Yahn (16:38)

Say more. What does that mean?

Alison Stewart (16:39)

Talking really loud. Had the earbuds in. There was sort of. I think there's sort of an unwritten rule of how you stand online. What do you think?

Matt Yahn (16:49)

I mean, I think it's all about being a good neighbor, right?

Alison Stewart (16:51)

Yes.

Matt Yahn (16:52)

You're kind of. With all these people, you're also in it. Maybe in a neighborhood, maybe in a quiet neighborhood, and just being cognizant of what's around you.

Alison Stewart (16:59)

I would say, what advice would you give to anyone who sees a long line and is deciding, am I gonna stand in it? Am I not?

Matt Yahn (17:08)

Try it. It could be fun. I mean, I was talking to one of my friends, and she was saying that it's always fun to stand. Standing in line is fun because you can kind of catch up with your friends. Like, when I was standing in line at In Radio Bakery, I texted my friend who lived in Prospect Heights and was like, hey, I'm standing here. I haven't seen you in, like, three years. Do you want to come by and she came by and we got to catch up. So you kind of get to bond with people in line because you're standing there for an hour. So you might as well, I don't know, enjoy it, enjoy it and have fun and make it, make it, make an event out of it.

Alison Stewart (17:43)

What is a line that you kind of want to stand in you haven't stood in yet?

Matt Yahn (17:48)

Ooh, that's a good question. Definitely the Lepartemont 4F line. I haven't stood in that one quite yet.

Alison Stewart (17:56)

It's a good one. Except for the woman in the headphones talking loudly.

Matt Yahn (17:59)

But the cinnamon buns are worth it.

Alison Stewart (18:00)

But the cinnamon buns are worth it. My guest is New York Times reporter Matt Yen. He wrote a great piece called why Is There Always a Line? And why Is it at My Front Door? Thanks for coming into the studio, Matt.

Matt Yahn (18:14)

Thank you so much for having me.

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