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- [00:00]
Anna Martin
WNYC Studios is supported by Odoo. When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out Odoo at O d O o dot com. That's O d o o dot com.
- [00:40]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Romance is depicted in all kinds of ways in the media. Wuthering Heights presents one version of a love story. Heated rivalry represents another image of romance. I'm going to the cottage, but we wanted to know, what does romance look like in your life? How do you define it? We talked about it in our meeting a few weeks ago. For a good long while, the team at Modern Love from the New York Times have been wondering the same thing. And yesterday they released a podcast episode called the Secret to True Romance. The episode features submissions from Modern Love listeners about the most romantic thing they've ever experienced. Love. Like this story from Eva in San Francisco.
- [01:27]
Hannah
I have this thing that's really embarrassing. I am superstitious and I have to knock on wood before bed. I've been doing it since I was a little girl, for as long as I can remember. When I moved in with my boyfriend John, I was nervous he would catch me and so I would have to slyly reach out to tap on the windowsill, feigning a yawn, pretending I was just stretching. And one day he did catch me. He listened as I told him about how it's hard when we go camping or I am traveling for work and there is no wood to knock on nearby. He lay silently for a while and then said, can I make you a knocking block so you can take it with you anywhere?
- [02:18]
Alison Stewart
That story was submitted to the Modern Love podcast, hosted by my next guest, Anna Martin. Hi Anna.
- [02:26]
Anna Martin
Hey, happy to be here.
- [02:27]
Alison Stewart
Listeners. Help us keep this celebration of romance going. What is the most romantic thing anyone has done for you? Call in and share your stories. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC or tell us, how do you define romance? What does it mean to you? Our number is 212433, WNYC 212-433-9692. Anna, where did your earliest ideas about romance come from?
- [02:58]
Anna Martin
Oh my gosh, That's a great question. You know, I think. And I think they're listening, so shout out to my mom and dad. It comes from them. I remember walking behind them, you know, we'd just be at the park or the mall or, or whatever, and I'd watch them hold hands. And I think that that image is seared into my brain. It's very everyday, you know, they wouldn't hold hands, could let go because they had to, you know, chase after three girls, myself included. But just that image sticks in my mind as my first idea of romance.
- [03:27]
Alison Stewart
That's so interesting. That reminded me of my parents. After my dad passed away, I was going to go do grocery shopping for my mom and I said, mom, you want blueberries? And she said, no, I don't like blueberries. I was like, daddy loved blueberries. They were in the house all the time. She's like, yeah, I know he loved blueberries. I hate blueberries.
- [03:44]
Anna Martin
It's the blueberries.
- [03:45]
Alison Stewart
It's the blueberries. She did that for, you know, 40 years. She bought blueberries for him. And I thought that was such a romantic. Romantic gesture is romantic. How do you think media shapes the way people, what they expect in a romantic relationship?
- [04:00]
Anna Martin
Totally. I mean, I think that when I think of romance as shaped by rom coms, you know, songs, I think of the grand gestures. I think of like running through the airport shouting, stop the plane. I think about, you know, boombox under the windowsill. I think about skywriting. These types of things, you know, exceptional, huge, often, you know, very costly. And like I said, I mean, my first image of romance, you know, holding hands, that is free. That's, that's totally free. Right. Like, it's these types of things that we heard from our listeners. These everyday things, these small gestures that to me are so much more part of the fabric of our lives. That's how romance shows up, I feel, in the everyday.
- [04:41]
Alison Stewart
Let's talk to Nancy from Greenwich, Connecticut. Hi, Nancy, thanks for making the time to call, all of it.
- [04:49]
Caller
Hi. My husband passed away a while ago. And soon after, maybe two years after, my daughter says, you have to sign up on one of those dating sites. And I did, and a man had responded and blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, the first date, he took me out to dinner and I didn't know if he was really for me. But right after dinner, before we were to leave, he leaned back in his chair and he said, next week is Valentine's Day. Would you like to be my Valentine? And we've been together for 13 years.
- [05:21]
Alison Stewart
Oh, that's a good story, Nancy.
- [05:24]
Anna Martin
That's a great story. Thank you. And it's a good reminder to, you know, your first impression might not always be correct. Right. You said you didn't know if he was for you at first.
- [05:33]
Alison Stewart
Let's go talk to Lucy in Westchester. Hi, Lucy. Thanks for calling, all of it.
- [05:39]
Caller
Oh, thanks. Thanks for having me. My husband and I met in college many years ago, and I left for a semester to study art history in Florence. And he just missed me so much. It was really sad. And then on Valentine's Day, the head office said, oh, Lucia, you have a package here. You know, a delivery. And I go downstairs and there's this ginormous bouquet of a hundred roses that I. It's kind of amazing because it was booked before computers that he figured out how to get me 100 roses in Florence, but I had to carry them home through the streets of Florence, Florence. And it was just so sweet. It was like, ah, San Valentino.
- [06:25]
Alison Stewart
Love that story. This is a good one. This is a good text. I knew my guy was the one. When I broke my arm cycling. I was rehabbing after surgery with my arm in a brace and feeling sad because I missed cycling. He told me to drive to his house because he had a surprise. When I arrived, he had a tandem waiting. I always carried my helmet and shoes in my car, so all I had to do was climb aboard and hold. It was the most exhilarating ride. And I felt so free. I still tear up when I think about it today. That's from Kat calling from Mount Tabor, New Jersey.
- [06:58]
Anna Martin
That is so wonderful. That's just wonderful.
- [07:02]
Alison Stewart
How has your definition of romance changed, Anna, since you've been hosting Modern Love?
- [07:08]
Anna Martin
It's a. It's a good question. I'm thinking. I mean, you know, I said, I talked about how media shapes our understandings of romance. And even despite growing up with, you know, that. That model, the holding hands, my parents of, you know, what. What love looks like. I think, too, I sort of saw romance as a bit of like a. It was a matter of scale, right? It was like the bigger the romantic gesture, the more meaningful it was. And then in, you know, in hosting the show now going on a few years, having conversations about the way that love shows up, like I said, in our everyday, I. I've really become convinced that romance is woven into the fabric of our lives. It's all around us. If we. If we open our eyes to it, if we're ready to receive it. You know, I think when we talk big Gestures are small. Small might imply less impactful, but for me, it absolutely doesn't. It just means that it might be more present, which to me is a total gift.
- [08:04]
Alison Stewart
Let's talk to Wendy in Springfield, New Jersey. Hi, Wendy. Thanks for calling all of it today.
- [08:11]
Caller
Yes. When I, my partner and I started seeing each other in 1985, in 1986, when we'd been seeing each other for a year, he asked me if it was okay if he made me a birthday dinner, which he did for me and my friends and my mother. And now we are heading to our 38th anniversary.
- [08:30]
Alison Stewart
Love that. Congratulations, Wendy. I'm speaking to Anna Martin, host of the Modern Love Podcast from the New York Times, and we are taking your calls. What is the most romantic thing anyone has done for you? Call in and share your stories. Or you can tell us. How do you define romance? What does it mean to you? Our number is 212-433-WN. I see 212-433-9692. Okay, so, Anna, you were looking through story submissions. What were you and your team looking for for this episode?
- [09:03]
Anna Martin
You know, we were looking for, first of all, all of the submissions. I wish we could play all of them. It would be way too long of an episode. But it's, it's just a total delight to hear, you know, stories from our listeners, to hear the stories that we're listening to together right now. It's. It's so heartening. It's so hopeful, which I feel is. Is sorely needed. What we were looking. We kind of like submissions that are a little bit weird, right, that you wouldn't think about. And I say weird in the most positive way possible possible. That that knocking block clip that you played, I mean, it's just totally. It's so specific to this person. Right? This is a thing, a private superstition that she held. You know, it sounds like she might have been a little bit nervous to share it with her boyfriend. And once she did, the boyfriend reached out and met her and, and offered, you know, this knocking block and this kind of specificity, this weirdness, again with the. A totally positive valence. That's what we're looking for. These stories that are so individual.
- [10:00]
Alison Stewart
Well, let's start with one. This first story we're going to highlight comes from an episode with a woman named Caroline. Tell us a little bit about Caroline and set up the story a bit.
- [10:11]
Anna Martin
Caroline, now you're going to need to remind me which. Which one we're talking about.
- [10:16]
Alison Stewart
This is the one.
- [10:18]
Anna Martin
Oh, I know. I see the little dots all over. Wonderful. Yes, yes, yes.
- [10:23]
Alison Stewart
Freckles all over herself.
- [10:24]
Anna Martin
Yes, freckles all over. That's Caroline, she. Of the freckles. Okay. I mean, this one is a really. It's a tender one, you know, this is a moment of romance that happens earlier on in her life. She talks about how, you know, she'd never sort of been intimately involved with someone and was a bit embarrassed to show herself, literally, metaphorically. And I don't know exactly where you're gonna cut in, but, you know, the moment that she decides to trust this new boyfriend is a moment of really pure acceptance and connection.
- [10:56]
Alison Stewart
And the name of this episode is He Saw the Stars in Me. Let's listen.
- [11:01]
Caller
A long time ago, I had my first boyfriend. I had never been naked in front of a man. And the first couple of times I went over to his rooming house and stayed, I was nervous. I am a speckled person with freckles on my nose and cheeks and dark, larger freckles sprinkled widely across my arms and legs and back. One afternoon as I sat on his mattress on the floor, I drew my knees up and wrapped my arms around them and explained that I felt self conscious about all the spots. He was quiet as he kneeled on the floor beside me and he slowly traced the dark freckles on my legs with his finger. Maybe if we connected the dots, he said, eventually we could find all the constellations.
- [12:05]
Alison Stewart
That story is so interesting because it's about her first boyfriend, Anna. She's 68 now, and she says this was a long time ago. What do you think it says about romance? That this is from an early relationship, one she's no longer in, but she still remembers it. Mm.
- [12:22]
Anna Martin
I mean, I think romance is. Is so sticky, right? It sticks in the brain. These are, you know, I, I keep referencing my mom and dad. I really do hope they're listening. They're getting a lot of shout outs during this segment. But, you know, it's, it's. It's these. That was a. One of my earliest memories. I. I still remember it. It's like these moments where we feel truly seen, where we let someone in, where we embrace the vulnerability of. Of wanting, of being wanted. I think those things, you know, I'm talking about how romance is in the everyday, but still it feels rare, right? These moments of pure connection. So I think it makes total sense that this formative experience would still stick with her. I mean, what a treasure, what a gift to be able to return to this moment. I don't know if she's still with this boyfriend, you know, I don't know. But that really, you know, the fact that romance can exist even beyond the course of a relationship, I think is a, like I said, a treasure and a gift we give each other and ourselves.
- [13:24]
Alison Stewart
Here's one that kicks it old school. When I was a senior in high school, I had mono, which left me fairly isolated from my then boyfriend, my first real love. On Valentine's Day, my doorbell rang and I discovered that he had dropped off a cassette tape that just had the Rolling Stones Wild Horses on it.
- [13:42]
Hannah
Sigh.
- [13:44]
Anna Martin
So sweet. That's wonderful. Yeah. I mean, it's these, you know, we talk about acts of service. To me, it's like these things are, they're gestures that are not because you have to. Right. But because you, you want to. And that sort of, it's purely just because you want to do something. It's out of your own volition, your own will. I, I think it's really beautiful.
- [14:07]
Alison Stewart
Let's talk to. I believe it's Lyran who's calling from Long Island City. Hi. Hello.
- [14:15]
Caller
Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Love your show. The romantic gesture that I think is like the thing to measure everything against is in a relationship I had before where the person went and collected stories and sentiments from really close friends and from my daughter. My daughter scored a song that was all a birthday celebration. That was just an incredible way to touch my heart.
- [14:56]
Alison Stewart
Thanks for calling in. We really appreciate it. We are talking about romance with the host of the Modern Love podcast from the New York Times, Anna Martin. When we come back, a member of Team all of it made it to the podcast and didn't even know about it. We'll hear about it. That's next. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. I'm speaking to Anna Martin, host of the Modern Love podcast from the New York Times. And we are taking your calls. What is the most romantic thing that anyone has ever done for you? Call in and share your story or tell us how you define romance. Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. W, N Y C. We wanted to say that, that Anna, you have a podcast. It's all about this. It just dropped yesterday. And this is one clip that was on that podcast. It's. It's from a woman named Hannah and she lives in Queens. Let's listen.
- [16:03]
Hannah
Our first date was at a jazz bar and we each ordered a drink. And sometime into the date, I made a second order of a mamul, which is a date cookie. It's one of my favorite cookies. And I was on a big mamoul kick at the time, and it was just one of the many things that we talked about as we closed out the bar that night. On our first date. On our second date, we meet up and he pulls something out of his pocket and says he has a surprise for me. And in his poem is a wrapped mambool cookie because he remembered that I said that I liked it on our first date. I thought it was really, really sweet and really special and quite romantic for a second date. On our third date, the same thing happened. He pulled out a mamool cookie out of his jacket pocket. Also very sweet, also very cute. And then so on and so forth. On our fourth date, our fifth date, our sixth date, he continued to have mamool cookies that he bought in bulk and made sure to always have one to give me every time we started our date.
- [17:12]
Alison Stewart
Anna, what struck you about that story?
- [17:16]
Anna Martin
I mean, the, the, like I said, just the specificity, right? She mentions that she likes this cookie, and then, you know, without being asked, this guy shows up with a cookie again and again and again and again. And. And to me, that's just. It's listening, it's being open. I just thought it was a really beautiful way of reaching out to someone.
- [17:39]
Alison Stewart
That guy, I loved it. That guy is a producer on our show.
- [17:43]
Anna Martin
I know. I'm freaking out. When I found out about this, I could not believe it. The cookie man himself.
- [17:50]
Alison Stewart
We invited you on the show.
- [17:51]
Anna Martin
We talked about this.
- [17:52]
Alison Stewart
We invited you on the show, and then this episode dropped. And then we realized that. Wait a minute, that's Simon that Hannah is talking about. So Simon is in studio with us right now.
- [18:05]
Simon
Hello.
- [18:05]
Anna Martin
Hello, Simon.
- [18:07]
Simon
Hi, Anna.
- [18:07]
Anna Martin
You are basically a celebrity to me. You are the cookie man. I cannot believe I get to talk to you in person. Hello.
- [18:15]
Simon
Hello, Anna. I'm glad to talk to you too.
- [18:18]
Alison Stewart
So, Anna, what did you want to ask Simon?
- [18:20]
Anna Martin
Well, I want to ask, are you still giving your girlfriend cookies every time you see her?
- [18:26]
Simon
No. We decided together that there might be a natural endpoint to that because it started to get a little too Pavlovian maybe, and I didn't want to. I wanted her to still enjoy Mamoul for herself and not too much, you know, so occasionally there are still little treats like that, and maybe this weekend some like surprise related gifts, which I should just say really quickly, Hannah doesn't know that I'M on the radio right now. I told her that we're talking about our story, but when she asked if I was going to be on, I said, no, I'm a producer. I don't go on air. So she's listening right now.
- [19:03]
Anna Martin
Y' all are just surprised. Hi, Hannah. This is just what? It's surprise after surprise. O, I have more cookie questions. Is that okay?
- [19:09]
Caller
Yeah, sure.
- [19:10]
Alison Stewart
I'm ready.
- [19:11]
Anna Martin
I'm just relaxed.
- [19:11]
Alison Stewart
I'm having a cup of coffee. Wonderful.
- [19:13]
Anna Martin
Yeah, take some time off. Simon, what gave you this idea? What sparked it?
- [19:19]
Simon
Well, actually, I should say that the inspiration, besides just listening on our first date and hearing that Hannah enjoyed the cookie, and that being one of the few things I knew about her, was there's a little bit of a story behind it, which is that Hannah gets the timeline just a little bit wrong in how she tells this story. The cookie ritual actually started on our third date, and it was inspired by something that Hannah did on our second date. So she and I went to the movie theater to see the Oscar nominated animated shorts for our second date. And we sit down in our seats and, you know, we're sort of awkwardly like starting small talk, getting ready for the movie, and she says, do you like movie snacks? And I said, yeah, of course I like movie snacks. And so then she proceeds to pull out a thermos filled with hot peppermint tea and two little paper cups, which already I was like, oh, my God, she's perfect.
- [20:10]
Anna Martin
She brought the cups.
- [20:10]
Simon
Totally. She brought the cups. And then she followed it up with a little bag of sugar free Swedish fish because she remembered from our first date that I am diabetic. And that was so sweet to me. And so then on the third date, I think I already had some idea of what I was.
- [20:28]
Anna Martin
Oh, my. So really, actually, Simon, this idea is not original at all.
- [20:31]
Simon
Not original at all. And actually, I don't deserve any of the romance credit.
- [20:35]
Alison Stewart
It's all I wanted to find out. How did you find out? You were part of the podcast.
- [20:40]
Simon
Yes, yes. So at the beginning of last week, so like Monday of last week, Hannah says to me, hey, can we see each other Wednesday? I have a surprise for you. But she didn't give me any more information. Like, I just knew that we needed to be together sometime on Wednesday. And then on Tuesday, as you said, Alison, we had this pitch meeting and we were talking about this idea of a Colin about romance. And I think I coincidentally was like, we should have modern love on. That would be a good fit for this conversation. About romance. I didn't even know that you guys were dropping this specific episode about, like, the most romantic thing that's ever happened to you. And so then we book you, Anna, and then on. And that's Tuesday. And then on Wednesday morning, Hannah and I are getting ready for the day, and she is sneakily playing. You know, we wake up with a podcast every morning. She starts playing up first, maybe, and then it moves into another podcast. And we're talking and it's playing, and then I hear the word ma mul and I freeze. And then I realize. Realize it's Hannah's voice. And then Hannah's basically like, surprise. And then I get to surprise her in turn and say, oh, my gosh, we have Anna Martin on the show tomorrow.
- [21:44]
Alison Stewart
Our Slack is hilarious. Oh, my God, Really? He's the king of Valentine's Day. And this goes on and on the Slack channel.
- [21:52]
Anna Martin
It feels so destined. It feels like fate. It really does. Can I. Do we have time for me to ask one more question? I don't know what our. Okay, wonderful. There's just a lot to dig into here, and I really mean that. Can I. You know, it's. Of course, it's the Swedish fish, the two paper cups, the m. Cookies. These are all wonderful, you know, delicious things. But it's not really about the Swedish fish. Right? It's not really about the cookies. What were you trying to say with those cookies to Hannah?
- [22:20]
Simon
I think I wanted her to know that I had listened to her on the first date, and I wanted to pay attention to things that she liked and cared about.
- [22:31]
Anna Martin
It is kind of about the cookies, though, because I cook with them, and they look really good. They seem really good. Simon.
- [22:37]
Alison Stewart
Yeah. Thanks for sharing your story. I want to get to some more of your tape. You pulled this good tape.
- [22:41]
Simon
We got so many calls.
- [22:42]
Anna Martin
Thank you, Simon.
- [22:44]
Simon
Thank you, Anna. It's so nice to talk to you. Thanks, Allison.
- [22:46]
Anna Martin
Oh, my gosh.
- [22:47]
Alison Stewart
Let's talk to Lisa from Long Island. Hi, Lisa. Thanks for calling, all of it.
- [22:53]
Caller
Hi. How are you doing?
- [22:54]
Alison Stewart
Okay.
- [22:56]
Caller
As soon as I heard. As soon as I heard the topic of this, I said, oh, I have a story. When he's my husband now. So this was about 20, 27 years ago, I think, when we were graduate students. When I first met him, when I first saw him, like, laid eyes on him, I literally heard angels singing. I was like, oh, who's that? Okay. So then I started, you know, seeing him around campus sometimes, and then eventually we got an apartment together. He's from Turkey, so you know, he went back for the summer. But then, you know, his. His family found out. I mean, cultural differences. So his family found out. And, you know, I thought, oh, that's it. I'm never gonna see him again. And it was. It was awful. It was terrible. So, you know, looking back now, I see, like, this could be a movie script, a rom com. Horror. Parts of it were horror. But anyway, so. So then when we. So a few months later, like about October, so he went home for the summer. So in the. In the fall, all of a sudden, I came home. I was in Boston visiting my sister, and I. He called and he's like, I'm. I'm home. And I'm like, what do you mean, you're home? So he told me that he was in our apartment. And so I sped all the way home. I got my first speeding ticket, and I saw him there, and it was like, all right. I tried so hard to get mad, you know, like, this guy is no good for me. Give me a break. Forget it. But then, as soon as I saw him again, that was it. I could not be mad ever again. And 30 years later and two kids and. It's a beautiful story, the whole thing.
- [24:44]
Alison Stewart
Thanks for calling. Let's talk to Kate in Sayville. Hey, Kate.
- [24:48]
Caller
Hi. How are you doing?
- [24:49]
Alison Stewart
Okay.
- [24:52]
Caller
So this is a story. I'm going to be 80 this month. And this story goes back 55 years when I was engaged to my husband. So we were engaged, and we were talking to some friends, and I brought up. I said, oh, we were at a Christmas. I said to my friend, oh, I was at your Christmas party last year. And my then fiance said, oh, I was at that party. I said, you were not at that party. He said, yes, I was. I said, well, why didn't I see you? And he said, you know, well, he had just gotten back from Vietnam, and he was quiet. And, you know, he said. He actually said, oh, I was sitting under the Christmas tree. So I said, well, you weren't there. He said, kate, you came into the room, you had your hair in a French twist. You were wearing Christmas balls for earrings. You had on a green dress, and you had green shoes with black buckles. You spent most of the night in the kitchen talking to your friend Blanche. And I said, oh, my. And we were already engaged. And he had never told me that story. Well, that was the roast. I would say that was really the most romantic day of my life.
- [25:59]
Alison Stewart
Oh, that's a good story. Thank you so much for calling, Anna. You know what? I'm hearing these stories. I'm hearing people noticing small differences, small things about the person they're with and remembering them and bringing them back up to them.
- [26:15]
Anna Martin
Absolutely. I mean, I think that's.
- [26:17]
Alison Stewart
That's love. Right.
- [26:18]
Anna Martin
It's the type of close observation we afford to those we really want to get to know. Right. We really want to get to know. And, like, I do think here, too, it's, like I'm saying, it's these everyday things. I mean, there are some grand gestures sprinkled throughout, you know, And I do think love is worth a speeding ticket in a lot of ways. But I think that this really is. It's the. Not it. It's allowing yourself to be known, and it's deeply knowing someone else.
- [26:42]
Alison Stewart
Let's hear another story from your podcast, the Secret to True Romance. The best seat in the House. It's from Jack in Cambridge. Could you set it up?
- [26:53]
Anna Martin
Absolutely. So this is another instance of, you know, really paying attention to what your partner needs. Jack, I love this, because at the end of what we're about to hear, Jack is sort of like, I don't always realize that my partner is doing this, and then I realize, and it's. It's. It's an act of love. Yeah. I think that sets it up.
- [27:12]
Alison Stewart
It's really a good story. Let's listen.
- [27:15]
Jack
Mine's not very grand. It's on the pretty small side of things, but I am partially deaf in my left ear, and this results in a lot of scenarios that you could imagine. If someone's sitting on my left side or to the left of me, I can barely make out what they're saying unless they're speaking very clearly and loudly. If I'm in a space with a lot of noise, like a restaurant or a concert, I can barely hear a thing. That can lead me to feeling quite isolated and frustrated and alone and separate from where I am. Well, my partner, who I've been with for about four years now, anytime we're out somewhere, anytime we're sitting at a table, maybe at a restaurant, he is the first one to the table. And he always makes sure that I have a seat at the place where I could best hear the entirety of the group. He does this without me asking him to. And oftentimes I'll find myself forgetting and not understanding why he's doing what he's doing. And then I put two and two together, that he's trying to make sure that I can be as comfortable and a part of wherever we are as possible. And that just makes me Smile every time he does it.
- [28:26]
Alison Stewart
That's a story you can hear on the Secret to True Romance, the Modern Love podcast from the New York Times. I want to get this in. The second half of that episode is about a man named Lonnie Anderson, which, by the way, is the name of someone else on our team.
- [28:42]
Caller
Oh, my gosh.
- [28:44]
Anna Martin
What's happening with us, Allison?
- [28:46]
Alison Stewart
Wow. Amazing. Why is Lonnie the king of Valentine's Day?
- [28:51]
Anna Martin
So for the past 30 years, Loni Anderson, who lives in New Mexico and Albuquerque, has been doing these massive, over the top, grand gesture Valentine's for his wife, Ann Bulger Witherspoon. This has been picked up by. By local news, by radio stations there. And we're talking big. We're talking like, you know, a crop circle with Anne's name in it, writing a poem in rocks that can only be seen from the sky, moving a carousel into their front yard. You know, we've been talking about smaller, everyday gestures. This is the other end of the scale. And you know, what's really beautiful about this is that people have joined in. They. They pitch in, they help Lonnie pull off these. These feats, these Valentine surprises. And in that way, I think, you know, one person's love, these individual acts become collective, right? They become a part of sort of a community love between all of us. And. And I really, really love talking to him.
- [29:43]
Alison Stewart
And Anne, does his wife think it's romantic?
- [29:47]
Anna Martin
It's a really good question. I mean, I'll point you to our episode. It's nuanced, right? I mean, she's like, I'm a private person, and these things are certainly not private. But the thing I really love about talking to Anne is that I realized through the course of our conversation, it's her act of love. Back to Lonnie to accept these Valentine's right, To sort of revel in the surprise of it and even in the very public nature of it, it's something that she can give back to Lani. So it's very reciprocal what they have going. And I cannot wait to see Anne's reaction to her Valentine in two days. I know what it is. Anne does not know, but I know, and it's beautiful.
- [30:25]
Alison Stewart
The podcast episode is called the Secret to True Romance. It's from Modern Love from the New York Times. My guest has been Anna Martin, its host. Anna, thank you so much for joining us.
- [30:37]
Anna Martin
Thank you so much. Happy Valentine's Day.
- [30:38]
Alison Stewart
Happy Valentine's Day to you, too.
- [30:40]
Anna Martin
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