← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
What's the Best Bridge in New York? (Small Stakes, Big Opinions)
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Foreign.
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This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. I am grateful that you are here. I'm especially grateful you're here on Giving Tuesday. It's the global day dedicated to giving back to organizations that make a difference in your life. If you've never donated to WNYC before or if it's been a while since you, it is a great day to support the station. Call 888-376-WNYC. Our phone number is 888-376-9692. Or you can donate right from the homepage at wnyc.org plus, if you've got a little holiday shopping list, I should mention that all the usual thank you gifts are available. If you want one of those tote bags that says you can't defund the truth, how about a mason jar radio or a sky blue umbrella with a WNYC logo. Perfect for a day like today. You can check them all out@wnyc.org any donation, no matter how small, supports independent journalism. The number is 888-376-9692. Thank you so much for considering it on this Giving Tuesday. Now let's get this hour started with a conversation about bridges. There are hundreds of bridges in New York City. Bridges that carry millions of trains, subways, cars, bikers and pedestrians every year that connect New Yorkers throughout the boroughs. Like the Williamsburg Bridge, Verrazano, or the gw. A bridge can define or change a neighborhood. Their construction and architecture often symbolize the time when they were built and who held political power. So for the next installment of our Small Stakes Big Opinion series, we want to hear which is your favorite bridge in New York. And we'll discuss the stories behind bridges that are world famous, but also perhaps the lesser appreciated architectural landmarks that spread throughout the five boroughs. Greg Young, you know him as the co host of the Bowie Boys podcast about New York City history. He's here with me now in studio to talk about his favorite bridges and to take calls. It is nice to see you as well.
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C
It's so good to be here. It's such a horrible day outside and lovely in here. Thank you.
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B
Love that. All right. When you think about bridges in terms of the aesthetic of New York, what is it about bridges that make them important to New York?
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C
I mean, to me, what I love about the history of bridges especially is that they always represent a certain kind of growth that the city is going through. Right. But like perhaps not even the growth that you think, which is just that more traffic can be moved around. Bridges can represent the sort of legitimizing of a borough, for instance, or like the kind of vast development of areas where not as many people live. And also the transportation of people from overcrowded places to other places. So, and a way, it's very fundamental to understanding New York City itself.
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B
Thinking about the history of bridge construction in this city, how can a bridge reshape its surrounding neighborhood?
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C
Well, I mean, there are a lot of neighborhoods, for instance, whose names come from the bridges. I mean, for instance, we have two bridges in Manhattan, which is actually between two bridges. The Williamsburg and the Brooklyn. But the. Then you have Kingsbridge, which is actually named for the very first bridge ever. Like, that was a colonial era bridge, literally the King. King's Bridge. But, you know, a bridge can actually, of course, bring people, can bring industry to a place, but it can also tear out parts of neighborhoods. Such as the example that I just recalled in my head a few minutes ago, which was the Verrazano Narrows Bridge. And the crisis that Bay Ridge dealt with at that time. It tore out a huge area of Bay Ridge, and they tried to fight back against it. So, I mean, like, it's overall very beneficial for the city at large, but sometimes not so good for the neighborhood in particular.
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B
I don't know if you're gonna know the answer to this, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Cause it just came to my head is, you know, Europe has. Has a lot of bridges, Venice and Paris. So what's the difference between, say, a European bridge and one that we might find here in New York?
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C
What I find interesting about New York bridges is they really come in all shapes and sizes that you have. For instance, the Verrazano Narrows, which is the longest suspension bridge in New York. So you have them long, you have them grand and tall like the George Washington. And then you have them as the classic Brooklyn Bridge. But then you even have them as the tiny, like the Carol Street Bridge, which is over the Gowanus. So to me, when I think of a bridge, I think of it. I think of it as being a lot of little European cities. It's a little bit of Amsterdam over here. It's a little bit of Germany over here. It's a little bit of London Bridge over here. Like, to me, just as the city is a sort of amalgamation of so many different kinds of cultures, its bridges kind of represent a little bit of Europe too. Like from the biggest to the smallest.
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That is Greg Young you are listening to. He's the co host of the Bowery Boys podcast about New York City history. He's here for another installment of our Small Stakes, Big Opinion series. Today we are discussing bridges in New York City. We also want to hear from you. What's your favorite bridge in New York City and why either to walk or bike across, drive, cross on a train. What's the most beautiful bridge to look at from the ground? You give us a call or text us now at 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Let's talk to Bridget in Jackson Heights. Hi, Bridget, thanks for taking the time to call, all of it.
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D
Hi. Yes, thank you. I feel as a Bridget, I feel like this is an appropriate show for me. So I'm calling because there's family lore that my grandpa who worked in construction for many years, he was, he was Irish and I know the Irish were really, you know, part, part of many of the builders for bridges and tunnels here in the city. And the family lore is that he put seven pennies in the Verrazano Bridge for my aunts and uncles and my mom and then my grandma and grandpa. So I like to think that there's a piece of our family history is literally in the Verrazano Bridge.
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B
I believe you hold on to that story. Bridget, thanks for calling in. Let's talk to James who's calling in from la, actually. Hey, James, thanks for calling, all of it.
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A
Hey, thanks for taking my call. I'm sorry that I live in la. It's not my fault. But yeah, so I mean, I lived in Queens, you know, during my, did you know when you, when you first become an independent adult, like the first city you live in, you imprint on. So Queens is like my sense of normality and I'm, I mean, I hate ed Catch, you know, like most people. And I'm really, really mad that the Queensborough Bridge has been named for him. And I think its architecture is much better than, like, than the Brooklyn Bridge because it looks more, as I said to the screener, it looks more like a machine. And a bridge is a machine. And like the Brooklyn Bridge looks like a spiderweb and it's trying to look organic. And I think that's, you know, that's not honest.
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C
That is an interesting statement because actually, so the Brooklyn Bridge, it was like the first, not the first. We have a high bridge. We can talk about that later.
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We're talking about that next.
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C
Yes, but the Brooklyn Bridge was kind of the first greatest to link two cities, right? So it had to look ornamental in a way that was expressive of cathedrals, expressive of European architecture. But then, like, you know, like, 10, 20 years later, we're working in a world of steel and iron. And so bridges then start looking more like their materials. Now, there's always a big debate, Especially this is like, during the Gilded age and early 20th century of, like, how raw do you want a bridge to look? So I would say that actually the Queensborough does something a little different than the Williamsburg and the Manhattan, which managed to make that steel look steel, but also look beautiful. Like, the other two bridges have been criticized in the past by being like, well, that looks a bit like a. I mean, today we'd call it like a Lego or a children's toy. But the Queensborough seems to have something a little extra to its beauty. And when it was opened in 1909, it also symbolized that, like, hey, we're five boroughs now, right? Hello, Queens. We're connected to you for the first time, you know, and.
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And I still call it the Queensborough Bridge.
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It's Queen. Oh, yes. Oh, I didn't even. There's a look. Mario Cuomo Bridge. RFK Bridge. There's a lot of names that. And then there's the names that New Yorkers use.
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There you go. Let's talk about the High bridge connecting the Bronx with Washington Heights. It's New York City's oldest standing bridge. It was completed in 1848. What was the purpose of the bridge?
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Well, it is my favorite. Cause it is the oldest standing. And what's amazing is it wasn't built to carry people. It was. It was. It's built to carry water, water over water. Because it's part of the Croton aqueduct system, which is one of the greatest engineering feats of the 19th century. It finally got drinking water down to New York City. But there was just one problem. There is a small body of water. You know, this is all coming from sort of upstate New York, coming down. How do you get it across the Hudson River? Because no one wants to drink the Hudson River. I mean, the Harlem River. Sorry, the Harlem River. No one wants to drink that water. Can't do that. Anyway, so this bridge really elegantly takes it over, but in a bridge design that's very Roman. It's very ancient Roman. Oh. Back to the European thing. This bridge looks like ancient European ruins. You'd see them all over the place. So to me, it's like, because it's such a unique purpose, and today, it is basically More just like, for pedestrians. You know, you can ride your bike and just walk over and it's so beautiful. Beautiful views of the Harlem river and. But it also is like this evidence of, like, a certain era of New York that we don't have a lot surviving, you know, So. I love the High Bridge.
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Yeah. Arthur from Nutley, New Jersey, wants to shout out, I think the same bridge. Hey, Arthur.
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Hi. How are you doing?
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Doing okay.
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I love that bridge. I always have. I first encountered it when I used to drive from Brooklyn, where I worked for my dad, up to Sarah Lawrence College when I was going there. And you would pass by the High Bridge, then you would pass by the Alexander Hamilton Bridge, the blue one, and you pass the Washington Bridge. And the three of them in a row were miraculous. So I looked into them back then, and I found that the High Bridge was built by or designed by Bloomfield Jervis, the same guy who designed the Erie Canal. And one of the beautiful things about it is that it has these Roman arches that are 40ft apart from each other on the land side, but 60ft apart from each other over the water. And then when traffic in the river, in the Harlem river, became more extensive in the latter part of the 19th century, they took out two or three of those interior stone bridges and replaced it with a big metal arched bridge. You know, I've always loved driving past there because you see the bridges go in and out of this sort of, you know, like looking through a window kind of from the angle and the views you get are so beautiful. And. Yeah. And the fact that it was built. I don't know if you know this, but originally they were considering putting a tunnel under the Harlem river there in order to carry the water to the city. But like a lot of people before, and half to them, including Robert Moses, who wanted to build a bridge where the Brooklyn Tunnel is now Brooklyn Barrels.
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I'm so glad you mentioned Robert Moses. I wanted to bring him in this conversation. Arthur, thank you so much for. For calling in. Arthur Moches, the bridge builder. Tell us what bridges he is responsible for.
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C
Well, quite a lot of them, actually. But you have to think of him as using bridges. He's not like a person who, like, I want to go out and build bridges. He wants to build infrastructure. So he uses bridges to connect the other things that he's building. Right. So perhaps the most prominent example is, of course, the Triborough Bridge, 1936, because not only because it's a series of bridges that kind of go over the, like, Randall's Island, Ward's island up there connecting the Bronx and Queens, but also, like, the tolls. Like, that project was used to fund other bridges. And this is kind of his style. So he does this, like, kind of throughout the city. I would like to talk about one really quickly that he didn't. He didn't. He didn't build. Thank gosh. Because it's called the Brooklyn Battery Bridge. Or would have. Right. Okay, so today we have a Brooklyn Battery tunnel. He wanted a bridge that literally would go from lower Manhattan, kind of skirt the edge of Governor's island, and go into Red Hook. But a gigantic bridge. Imagine a bridge right there blocking the east river from the harbor. Well, a lot of pushback, including from the President, fdr, and from a lot of activists who basically were like, no, that's too crazy. So eventually, he had to settle for a tunnel he hated. He didn't like building tunnels. He wanted bridges. And so that's why there are so many bridges that are connected to him, because he saw them as these kind of mighty trophies in a way.
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Yeah. We have the Henry Hudson. He was responsible for the Verrazano Throg's Net, Bronx, Whitestone. Okay, I have a question about the Verrazano.
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C
Yes.
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Should. Should Staten island be part of New Jersey?
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C
Oh, my goodness. No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, let me. Let me explain.
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I'm just kidding.
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Let me explain, though, because there are bridges to. There are more bridges to New Jersey than there are to New York City. You had the Bayonne and you had the Gothels, and you have the Outer bridge, which is named for a man named Outer Bridge. That fits. But so it's always been this crisis, right, Because Staten island has never felt like it got the fair share of being part of New York City. Even as early as the 1920s, they tried to build tunnels. Didn't finally work. But finally, again, if you think of. If you think of Moses as like this grand plan of. My infrastructure was like one final piece of the puzzle. And so finally, of course. So not only is it finally. It finally comes about in 1964, but it is in many ways the most grand of all the bridges. I mean, to me, it's like a breathtaking bridge when you kind of, like, see it over the horizon. Sometimes I can see it when I. Along the water, and I'm just like, okay. Like, this is stunning and modern. You know, so many of our bridges that we've talked about that, you know, they kind of looked a little dated, a little raw, but not. I still think this is one of the most beautiful bridges in the world.
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We're talking to Greg Young, co host of the Bowery Boys podcast about New York City history. It's our Small stakes, big opinion series. We are discussing bridges. Let's read a couple of comments. Hellgate Bridge. Not so much the bridge itself, but the approach that steps across Randall's island like the legs of a giant. You can ride under it on the bike path. As I often do. This often says, always love walking the Brooklyn Bridge. Very fond memory of cycling across on the morning of September 9, 2001. Looking over my shoulder as the sunlight glistened out of the towers. A spectacular view. This one says the bridge over the Bronx river in the New York Botanical Gardens. A beautiful stone arch. Let's talk to Kat from West Orange, New Jersey. Hey, Kat.
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Hi, Alison. How are you?
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I'm doing great.
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Great.
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I have this fun little memory of the George Washington Bridge. So when I was younger, most of my family stayed in Queens and my immediate family moved to New Jersey. So anytime I would go visit my cousin, something that. That was really, you know, and it still evokes, like, a very visceral. Visceral reaction for me is like the. As you drive over the bridge. And it's something that I definitely notice as I go over different motorways and stuff. But so as every time I drive down there, it just brings back those warm and fuzzies.
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I have those memories as well. Only I was really frightened of bridges as a little kid. Oh, really, really frightened.
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I still can't really drive over them with, like, holding my breath a little bit, but.
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Yes, exactly.
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C
Walking over them are beautiful.
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You used to have to go from New Jersey to my grandmother up in Dyckman Heights, and we'd have to go over the George Washington Bridge. My father, God bless him, would sit there and listen to me the whole time. Why is he standing up? Why is this in the water? Why are all these cars on and on and on? And thank goodness he was an alert man and he explained bridges to me.
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C
But every time, good. Yes.
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I had to know why that bridge was standing. It scared me.
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Well, I mean, you can't believe how deep it goes under the water. I mean, like, the whole engineering, once you start thinking about it, is unbelievable.
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B
Yeah. The GW Bridget was built in. Is it 1931?
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1931 is when it opened. And believe it or not, it's named. You know why it's named Georgia Washington? Because it connects to sites that were important to the Revolutionary War. In fact, there was the Battle of Harlem Heights, which is like, kind of around there on the Manhattan side. Then Fort Lee, of course, is named after an actual fort. So. So there's like. So even in the bridge construction, which is from the early 20th century, and it's like, to this day, the busiest bridge in the world. Which, when you're on it, you're like, yeah, it certainly is, isn't it? But it connects history as well.
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B
Talk to Susan in Roosevelt Island. Hi, Susan. Thanks for calling, all of it.
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D
Hi, Allison. Yeah, I live on Roosevelt island, which is located in the middle of the East River. And we have a bridge called the Roosevelt Island Bridge, which connects the island to Queens, specifically to Astoria. And if you happen to work in the New York City Health Department, you can. Which is in Long Island City. You can walk from Roosevelt island across the bridge through a story or two. Long Island City in 30 minutes, which some people do. Like someone like my daughter, who does. It was there. And the school buses come in every day to pick up the kids and bring them home, and Ubers can come here. So it's the only way you can get by car from the island to New York City. You know, the mainland.
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C
Believe it or not, we just mentioned Queensborough Bridge. I have. This is the great time to interject the fact that, in fact, you used to be able to get out at Roosevelt Island. Back then it was called Blackwell's island and Welfare Island. There used to be an elevator in the middle of the bridge. And this was like, you know. Cause 1909, so automobiles are just kind of coming in. There was an automobile elevator so you could pull over and take an elevator down to the island. Isn't that incredible? It was mostly for trolley. Like it was for people who worked on the island. You took a trolley over and of course, the. And then they got rid of the trolleys, and then they built the subway to Roosevelt Island. So they got rid of all of that. But isn't that cool? Like, there was an automobile elevator on the bridge.
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B
I have to ask you about how to say a bridge's name. I say it because I listened to 1010 WINS ever since I was, you know, five years old. The Kosciusko Bridge.
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C
Oh, okay. So.
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B
But I'm not sure that's right. But I'm in the.
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C
Here's the thing. Well, I did a show on this a couple years ago and had to say the name like a million times. So Tadeus Kosciuszko is the name of the man. Okay. But the bridge, which is named after him and which opened in 1939, renamed in 1940 for him. To me, it's like it's now a separate thing. So you call it what you call it. And if I know what you're talking about, then we're good. So if it's Kosciusko and I know what you're talking about, then that's the name of the bridge. To me, it's like if he came back and like we had a seance and he came back and was like, I'm so offended, like maybe we could like have that discussion, but he's not here. To me, the bridge takes on its own identity. And by the way, the new one that was just, you know, has been built for the past is gorgeous.
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It is gorgeous.
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C
It's a really nice one to walk over as well, actually. I would recommend.
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B
Let's talk to Terry from Guilford, Connecticut. Hi, Terry, what's your favorite bridge?
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D
Hi.
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A
University Heights 207th Bridge. I know it's not that big, but I've driven over it countless times, going upstate New York and out this way to Connecticut, and I've walked over it. I used to live in Washington Heights, right up on top of the hill, over by the highest point, Fort Washington Avenue. Walked many times over the GW Bridge and walked over like the Gil Hodges Marine Parkway Bridge going towards the Rockaways. The little. The New City Island Bridge, which isn't very exciting looking, but it's new structure and everything, which is nice.
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B
You've been a big bridge walker, it sounds like.
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C
Have you done the one to Randall's Island? There's this really cool pedestrian bridge. It's pedestrians and it's was opened in the 50s and it's like kind of a greenish color. That one is like. That one's. If you're a urban explorer, that's a good bridge to do as well.
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B
We got a message on blue sky that says I can't call in, but I just got this tattoo of the George Washington Bridge and the lighthouse.
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C
Oh, little red lighthouse, yes.
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B
I think we got called for one more. Let's Laura in Bayville. Hey, Laura, thanks for calling, all of it.
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D
Hey, this is a great segment and I had to fact check your guests because I couldn't believe Outer Bridge was the guy's name. That is just so funny. But you were just talking about that elevator down to Welfare Island. My mom was telling me about that. She's in her 90s and one Christmas morning two years ago, we were driving across the bridge and it was so quiet, there was nobody around. And she goes, that's it. That's what I was telling you. I would take those. That staircase down to visit my sister on Welfare island. And there was no traffic. And I know you guys are going to think I'm nuts. We stopped the car and she could look and see the staircase. There was nobody around. And she had the chance to revisit that memory. I have never seen that bridge so quiet. We were on the Outer Lane. It was like a magical Christmas moment.
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B
And we have to tell you, the person named Outer Bridge was Eugenius Harvey Outer Bridge, first chairman of the Port Authority.
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So boom.
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C
Yeah, you couldn't call it Outer Bridge Bridge. They actually call it Outer Bridge Crossing or just people say the Outer Bridge. Right.
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B
So what do you think has the best city view? Which bridge?
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C
Oh, what a question. Okay, I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say the Williamsburg Bridge because you can look down upon the Brooklyn Bridge. And now that there's so much development on both sides, you see, I mean, but then you can look from either side, I think, and have very gorgeous. I just. In terms of just a. I love walking that bridge. In particular, it's, I think the bridge I've walked over the most. And I remember, like it having many moments of just stopping and staring at the. As the sun sets and you can see with the silhouette of the Brooklyn Bridge and Lower Manhattan. So that would be my choice. But, you know, there's again, there's dozens of bridges. Oh, I guess I could also add there's lots of bridges in Central Park. Yes. So that actually could apply too, for picturesque views.
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B
So for anybody that we can't get to their phone calls. Thank you so much for calling in. And they're really in this bridge mode. Which podcast of yours could they listen to?
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C
All right, well, so our most recent one is on Ellis Island. There is a pedestrian bridge, but that's not open for people there. But in terms of recent shows, what I'll have on our website, we'll have a kind of compendium of all of them later today. But we have a Verrazano Narrow show. We have George Washington Bridge, of course, a recent one from just like two or three years ago on the Brooklyn Bridge on the Roebling family in particular. So if you want more of like a biography type of show. But we have Queensborough, we have Manhattan Bridge, even have a Gowanish show. There were some little bridges are over there. So we have most. Most of our show. We have most of the major bridges as podcasts. So I'll compile them on the but you can also just look through them. Just our back catalog. They're all there. Just type in your favorite bridge.
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B
You'll always have a good time when you listen to the Bowery Boys podcast. It's co host Greg Young joins us for our Small Stakes, Big Opinions. Talking Bridges thank you so much for coming in.
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C
It's been a pleasure. I love talking about this stuff.
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B
Is anyone out there another salesperson enduring the endless search?
- [26:14]
C
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