Podcast Summary: All Of It — "What's Your New York City Tattoo?"

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Alison Stewart
Guests: Dave Herman (founder & curator, City Reliquary Museum and Civic Organization), Michelle Miles (tattoo artist & co-curator, Daredevil Tattoo Shop and Museum)
Date: September 12, 2024

Overview

This episode dives into the unique and vibrant world of New York City-themed tattoos, centering on the cultural significance of Lady Liberty as a recurring icon. Host Alison Stewart is joined by Dave Herman and Michelle Miles to discuss a new exhibit at the City Reliquary, "Liberty the Tattooed Lady," chronicling the history of Statue of Liberty tattoos and the broader world of tattooing in NYC. The show features listener calls sharing personal tattoo stories and reflections on the meaning behind their body art.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NYC’s Historic Role in Tattoo Culture

• Statistical Context: One-third of Americans have at least one tattoo; 22% have multiple (00:16).
• Origins in the Bowery: The modern tattooing process developed in NYC’s Bowery, a hub for working-class entertainment and tattoo innovation (03:46).
  • Michelle Miles: “The very first professional tattooer was on the Lower East Side...listed in the directory in 1858.” (03:46)
  • First electric tattoo machine patented on the Bowery in 1891.
  • Tattooing grew alongside the city’s reputation as both gritty and creative.

2. The City Reliquary & The "Liberty the Tattooed Lady" Exhibit

• The Reliquary was founded post-9/11 to "help people feel that civic pride...while preserving its history" (02:02).
• The current exhibit focuses on the Statue of Liberty in tattoo history, blending archival art and contemporary designs, emphasizing collaboration with local artists like Michelle Miles (02:58).

3. Tattooing’s Underground Years

• Tattooing was illegal in NYC from 1961 through 1997. Many, like Michelle, worked underground (07:06).
  • Michelle Miles: “I started tattooing in 1991. So I worked for six years underground before it was legalized. In all that time, nobody was ever actually busted for tattooing in New York.” (07:06)
• Legalization coincided with shifts toward mainstream acceptance, increased hygiene standards, and public confidence.

4. Statue of Liberty Tattoos: Cultural Meaning & Technical Challenges

• Meaning: Lady Liberty is described as a “secular saint”—a unifying, iconic figure (11:04).
  • Dave Herman: “She has that same sort of religious iconography and the power of association that many people find in religion...for getting a Statue of Liberty tattoo, you are becoming a part of history itself.” (11:04)
• Design Aspects: The face and hands are technically trickiest; the crown (with seven rays) is immediately recognizable and a focal detail (11:59, 18:04).
  • Michelle Miles: “The rays...are not actually the crown—they’re supposed to be reflected light off her head.” (18:04)
  • Dave Herman: “She’s supposed to have seven rays...on my arm, I want to make sure she’s got seven rays.” (18:33)

5. Trends and Shifts in Tattoo Culture

• Tattooing has evolved: once an outsider’s badge, it’s now mainstream.
  • Michelle Miles: “You used to get tattooed to be out. Now you get tattooed to be in.” (12:34)
• Styles, techniques, and clientele have broadened, including more experimentation and a revival of traditional designs (28:45).
• Tattoos are increasingly embraced as personal, empowering choices that reflect identity, artistry, and self-determination (28:05).

6. Personal Stories: Listener Calls and Guests

• Listeners shared stories of tattoos celebrating marathon accomplishments, commemorating loved ones, and marking personal histories (06:10–14:18).
  • Doris’s story: A blurry, old astronomical tattoo is considered iconic rather than needing touch-ups (09:11).
  • Emotional moments: Tattoos memorializing family, places, and significant life events, such as a daughter getting a cartoon mouse in memory of her mother (16:35).

7. Artifact Highlights & Community Connections

• The exhibit features rare items: early acetates, stencils, and flash sheets—tools and templates from tattoo history (07:51).
• The collaborative effort involved matching stencils and designs found in disparate collections, uniting them for the first time (15:18).

8. Cultural Appropriation & Identity in Tattoos

• Discussion on indigenous designs: Historic trends reflected both exoticism/chic and, today, more personal reclamation.
  • Dave Herman: “...in history...people have been exploring other cultures...we would refer to that as cultural appropriation...Hopefully doing it today in a respectful way and an acknowledgement that you’re doing that from a position of privilege and admiration.” (22:17)

9. Tattooing Ethics, Care, and Logistics

• Artists’ Responsibility: Michelle affirms responsibility to decline tattoos when motives seem questionable. She has also helped cover unwanted tattoos for trafficking survivors, collaborating with authorities (25:23).
• Technical Q&A:
  • Allergies: Black ink is rarely problematic, even for those with allergies such as nickel (19:28).
  • Age & Skin: Tattooing older skin may be trickier due to sun exposure but is generally not problematic (19:59).
  • Health standards: High levels of sanitation expected—shops should feel as clean as a medical office (20:16).

10. The Emotional Resonance of Tattoos

• Tattoos as both public art and personal talismans. Listener stories affirmed tattoos as ongoing touchstones for identity, community, and memory (26:43, 27:20).
  • Michelle Miles: “Tattooing is this thing that you do choose. As I get older...I love my tattoos—it’s the one thing that really expresses who I am.” (28:05)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "She’s sort of what we call a secular saint." — Dave Herman (11:04)
• "You used to get tattooed to be out. Now you get tattooed to be in." — Michelle Miles (12:34)
• “If you want another sharp tattoo, you have another shoulder.” — Tattoo artist (Doris’s story, 09:17)
• "On my arm, I want to make sure she’s got seven rays." — Dave Herman (18:33)
• “I love my tattoos...it’s the one thing that really expresses who I am.” — Michelle Miles (28:05)
• “You kind of make yourself the artifact.” — Dave Herman (11:04)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Tattoo History in NYC, Origins – 00:16–04:41
• Illegality and Legalization – 07:05–07:45
• Listener Stories (including iconic tattoos, marathon) – 06:10–14:18
• Meaning of Lady Liberty & Design Details – 11:04–12:27, 18:04–19:16
• Community, Collaboration, and Artifacts – 07:51–09:04, 15:18–16:14
• Cultural Appropriation and Identity – 22:04–24:34
• Health & Safety, Tattooing Older Skin – 19:28–20:10
• Emotion & Empowerment in Tattoos – 26:43–28:42
• Current Trends in Tattoo Styles – 28:45–29:17

Themes and Tone

• Warm, conversational, celebratory. The episode conveys reverence for tattooing as both a communal and highly personal cultural practice, rooted deeply in NYC’s legacy. The guests expertly balance historical knowledge, technical detail, and lived experience, while listeners’ stories underscore the power of tattoos to carry memory, meaning, and pride.

Exhibit Information

Liberty the Tattooed Lady

• City Reliquary Museum
• 370 Metropolitan Avenue, Brooklyn, NY

For New Yorkers and fans of body art alike, this episode explores how tattoos carry our stories, unite communities, and keep NYC’s ever-shifting culture inked into history.