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- [00:09]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Today is the first day of fall, and in our business, that means the content comes at you fast. New movies, books, art shows, and lots of series. Not to fear. Vulture TV critic Catherine Van Arendonk is here. KVA has put together a list of fall shows she recommends we check out starring actors like Mark Ruffalo, Kristen Bell, Jude Law, Jason Bateman, Rachel Sanat, and more. She's here now with a preview. Hi, Katherine.
- [00:42]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Hello.
- [00:43]
Alison Stewart
Before we get to it, I have to ask you, big picture, what grade are you giving fall TV so far?
- [00:52]
Catherine Van Arendonk
You know, I feel like we are in a B place. There are a lot of really good shows. There are some shows that I am really, really excited about, including new and original shows, brand new titles, not adaptations. As you know, whenever I come on, I'm like, let's, let's have some titles that are not, that's not like a book that we've all read before. And there are plenty of offerings in that space. And there's a lot of shows that I'm really excited to talk about. I the B plus part of the reason for the B plus instead of like an A minus A is because none of these are network shows. And there are, there's a surprising dearth of network new network dramas and comedies this fall, which used to be a real staple of, like, what fall TV meant. In fact, all of the new dramas, as far as I can tell, are spin offs of previous dramas, including one that's called Sheriff country, which is a spin off of Fire Country. And at that point you're just like, okay, I got it. And so I really, this is an area of TV that means a lot to me that I'm always curious about and wish that I had more to be excited about. There. There are a lot of other really great things going on, though.
- [02:05]
Alison Stewart
Okay, listeners, what are you watching on TV these days? Any new show you've discovered that you want to recommend, call or text us now at 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC, let's start on your list task on HBO starring Mark R. As an FBI agent in the working class suburbs of Philadelphia. It sounds like mayor of Easttown a little bit.
- [02:32]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Yes, yes, it should sound like mayor of Easttown because it's, it's really designed to pick up that same audience. It's not like deliberately the same universe. It's not characters that you recognize. It's not a spinoff exactly. But it Is Delco. It's going to have the same Wawa Water Ice references that you know and love. And it is also going to have more important. Well, not importantly, I do that to you, Dalco. Obviously we know that's important, but it's more sort of fundamentally gonna be about this crime drama that you are following, but which is very much a family drama. And it is hard for you and for the characters to pull out which things you are prioritizing. It is really putting pressure on. Like is it.
- [03:18]
Interviewer/Host
Is.
- [03:18]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Are the family connections more important here or is the crime the thing that I am following? And I think Task is a very grim show. It is about a lot of very, very sad men. But what it does very well is weave together a lot of family narratives so that you are incredibly invested in who these people are by the time you get to the end.
- [03:41]
Alison Stewart
How do you evaluate Mark Ruffalo's performance as an FBI agent?
- [03:45]
Catherine Van Arendonk
I think I already said sad. I really want to triple down on.
- [03:48]
Alison Stewart
Sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad man.
- [03:52]
Catherine Van Arendonk
And. And this is a performance we have seen Ruffalo do, like really grim prestige, HBO Sunday night style sadness before. And so this is not going to feel particularly revelatory in that regard.
- [04:06]
Interviewer/Host
But.
- [04:07]
Catherine Van Arendonk
But which is not to say that it's not notable. He is really, really good at that particular thing. I do think that in addition to Ruffalo, there are other characters, there are other actors on. On tasks that I find to, you know, appealing. Tom Pelfrey is. Is really giving an incredible performance as a. As a garbage man. Actually, that is the big standout for me.
- [04:31]
Alison Stewart
Is Martha Plimpton in that one?
- [04:34]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Yes, yes, yes. She plays an FBI agent boss. You know, nothing like Martha Plimpton in a business suit to really make you sit up and pay attention in a scene. She's so good at that kind of role. And I think, although I have emphasized and I am not backing away from the prominence of sad men here, there are also some really important female roles that are designed and I think quite carefully balanced in that way to give you some counter narrative and some counterpoint to those central figures.
- [05:08]
Interviewer/Host
Love Martha Plimpton. That's called Task on hbo.
- [05:12]
Alison Stewart
All right, we're gonna go to Black Rabbit, just released over Netflix this weekend. It's number one.
- [05:18]
Interviewer/Host
I saw it. Stars Jude Law and J.
- [05:22]
Alison Stewart
They play two brothers.
- [05:24]
Interviewer/Host
They are very different on this show. Can you give us a logline for each one?
- [05:29]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Yeah. So the premise of Black Rabbit is that it is a thriller crime drama, except it is also kind of the bear. And the idea is that these brothers are. They are. They own this restaurant. There's a family restaurant. One of them is the owner. The other one is. Has somehow gotten into some kind of serious trouble. We're not sure. He's. He's left the family for a while and has come back. And they are both of them in deep money trouble. One of them has this incredibly new, exciting, successful restaurant, except the money is not there yet. The other one has this real criminal history, gambling problem. And so they together realize that they need to help dig each other out of this deep, deep hole. And it is, I find it is a very stressful show. This is not the kind of thing that you can sit and just. Or at least I cannot sit and relax while watching. I watched about an episode and a half before I was like, I have to pause and take a break just so that I don't. I don't really go fully crazy. But I know that that is a genre that, that a lot of viewers really, really respond to. My colleague, Vulture critic Roxanna Hadati, like, loves Black Rabbit. Like, this is very much her bag. So, you know, I think that show does. Does its job incredibly well. And Jude Law and Jason Bateman are so good as brothers, actually, which was not something not casting, I think is particularly intuitive. And it works so well.
- [07:02]
Interviewer/Host
Yeah, I watched the first episode. I know what you mean about it being tense. And Jason Bateman, he is sporting quite a look. He is sporting quite a look.
- [07:12]
Catherine Van Arendonk
He is the brother who does not have his act together. And when he rol to this show, you really, the makeup and hair people have done their jobs. It is very convincing. And he's great in that role. That performance, I think really, really works. But wow. Yes, there is a contrast between the way those two men look.
- [07:36]
Alison Stewart
We've got a couple of texts coming in. Alien Earth is killing it. Great take on the OG but with a whimsical. If alien eyeballs can be whimsical, twist. Really fun. This says I'm excited for the new Mae Martin show coming this Thursday to Netflix called Wayward with Toni collect look sinister and unique. Let's talk to Jared in Brooklyn. Jared, you are on the air.
- [08:00]
Caller Jared
Hi. How are you doing?
- [08:01]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Great.
- [08:03]
Caller Jared
Thanks for having me. I'm watching the Girlfriend. I really have been enjoying that on Amazon.
- [08:10]
Alison Stewart
What's it about?
- [08:13]
Caller Jared
So it's Robin Wright, and she plays a overbearing mother, and her son brings home a girl. And the mom and the girlfriend are kind of like battling back and forth for the son's attention, but it takes a lot of turns that I really wasn't expecting, especially like for the other kind of like similarly genre shows that are out there. It kind of like had me hooked and I wasn't getting bored. And I'm still not done with it. I have like the last two episodes so I am looking forward to finishing it.
- [08:49]
Alison Stewart
We'll enjoy the rest of the show. I wanna ask you about the last show in September. I've got em listed by month. The Lowdown we like the Lowdown here. It stars Ethan Hawke who plays a bookstore owner in Tulsa. He's also a writer. Why do you say this is one of the best shows you've seen this fall?
- [09:10]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Well, I have to start by saying this is a genre that I really, really love. It's a neo noir and it is the kind of thing that I just has an incredible sense of place. And it has the sort of oddball detective who's like an amateur in this case. Ethan Hawke's detective figure is a bookstore owner slash journalist. He's a real scumbag also, he has a kind of Big Lebowski mood to him. And the episodes have this kind of pickeresque like first we have this bizarre thing, then we have this bizarre thing, then we have an exciting guest star doing this unexpected role. And it is just a genre I really love Weirdo small shows tend to be like Terriers was one of these. That means a lot to me. Lodge 49 was another one. And this feels very much in that kind of space. But the other thing, like you cannot dismiss how great Ethan Hawke is in this role and how impressive it is to have a show like this from Sterling Harjo as the follow up to Reservation Dogs. I'm actually quite mad at them because they only sent me five episodes and I am desperate for the rest of the screeners. So that's kind. I'm in dire straits. If you're listening fx, please get in my email.
- [10:34]
Interviewer/Host
My guest is Vulture TV critic Catherine Von Arendonk. You heard it. Catherine Von Arendonk. She's the rest of the Lowdown screeners.
- [10:40]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Thank you.
- [10:40]
Interviewer/Host
She is here for a fall TV preview and we want to hear from you. What are you watching these days? Any new show you've discovered that you want to recommend? Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433 wnyc. After the break, we'll get to October and November releases.
- [11:01]
Announcer
On the next FRESH air. Elizabeth Gilbert, the best selling author of Eat Pray Love Talks about her first nonfiction book in a decade, all the Way to the River. It's about her intense relationship with her best friend, Rhea, a love that she describes as deep and life changing, but also destructive, marked by addiction and heartbreak.
- [11:19]
Interviewer/Host
Join us weekdays at 2 on WNYC.
- [11:25]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Foreign.
- [11:30]
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- [12:17]
Announcer
WNYC Independent Journalism in the Public.
- [12:20]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Interest, 93.9 FM and AMA 20 NPR News and the New York Conversation.
- [12:39]
Alison Stewart
You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Vulture TV critic Catherine Van Arendonk, who we are looking at fall TV series headed our way. All right, we're up to October. You have the show Talamasca on your list. Did I say that correctly?
- [12:57]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Yeah, Talamaska. So I mentioned this for two reasons. One is that I think everyone needs to know when there is a vampire show. People need vampires. And this is the one that you really have to keep track of. But it's really a kind of backdoor way of saying if you have not been watching Interview with a Vampire on amc, you are missing one of the best things on television right now. Talamasca is a spinoff. It is also in the Anne Rice vampire universe. And so for me, Talamasca, you know, it is taking some time to find its footing, but it is really me watching it, waiting, very excited for more Interview with a Vampire later. I just am kind of getting my fix while I'm in this pause period. Truly. I know Emmys is never gonna figure out how to throw a big party for Interview with a Vampire, but when you watch it, you are reminded of how frustrating it is when shows like this fly under the radar. I am partially default like I did not. I have not been yelling about this show from the beginning. Several of my colleagues at Vulture have been on that train. And so I, you know, I would just wanna say, you know, mea culpa, but I'm here now. I'm ready. Let's go.
- [14:16]
Alison Stewart
The Chair Company is coming to HBO in October. It's a comedy created by Tim Robinson and Zach Canaan. All right. We've heard Tim Robinson before.
- [14:24]
Caller Jared
How.
- [14:25]
Alison Stewart
What kind of comedy would you say.
- [14:27]
Interviewer/Host
This show is embracing?
- [14:29]
Catherine Van Arendonk
This is a. It is a little bit of a darker twist on the typical Tim Robinson, Zach Canan comedy, who you will know them from their incredible sort of cultish sketch show on Netflix. I think you should leave. But even then, to say that it's darker is a little bit odd because I believe that. I think you should leave is actually a quite dark sketch comedy. It has this real well of tragedy and strange, disoriented, misfit feeling to it. And what I think has been so interesting about Tim Robinson's work since then, which includes the movie Friendship and this new series, the Chair Company, is the way that they have taken that kind of comedic sensibility which is still here. Like, there are still a lot of really important comedic elements to these things, but then translated into these genres where you begin from that same kind of awkward office manager, kind of regular guy character that Robinson plays so well, and then it becomes this much bigger, much more sinister thing. In the case of the Chair Company, it becomes a vast conspiracy that he is trying to investigate. But it is really interesting watching it sort of structurally and from a genre standpoint, like find new wells to fall down.
- [15:53]
Interviewer/Host
Let's take a few calls. Let's talk to Arthur, who is calling in from Queens. Hey, Arthur, thanks for making the time to call. All of it. You are on the air.
- [16:03]
Caller Arthur
Thank you for taking my call. I've been watching tests and, you know, you're of a certain age when you keep seeing Martha Plimpton, and my memories are still running on empty. So you're like. But what I wanted to ask was I basically, I watched Trenton and I'm watching High Potential or has regular television, the big three, just. They're almost like a bad stepchild now because that. No one hardly talks about it because now everything is pretty much cable. So I'll leave it at that and hear what you know. Is there any. Am I wrong to feel that way?
- [16:41]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Yeah, it's interesting.
- [16:43]
Interviewer/Host
Trent and High Potential are both pretty good shows. They do have that network television vibe about them, though.
- [16:49]
Catherine Van Arendonk
They do, yeah. I think there is. There's a couple different points of view about this. And I will say, having said that, I know that there are some network dramas, new network dramas that are scheduled for winter spring releases this year, rather than fall releases. But I don't think you're wrong to notice that there has been this bifurcation and you could think them as like a bad stepchild, as you put it. I think one other way of thinking about it is like an evolutionary split where a certain kind of programming has really been proven to work in a network space. And then streaming and the way that people watch streaming has been put a pressure on, a kind of evolutionary, adaptive pressure toward a different kind of TV show. And so you get these more episodic and easy to digest kinds of series that look a lot like each other in that network space. And then in a streaming space, you tend to get these longer series arcs for a plot, but then you have fewer episodes in the season itself. I don't know what the outcome of this will be in the end. As far as, like, whether how network TV is going to adapt in the long run. I will say from a, from the sort of insider Hollywood perspective, if you can get a job writing or acting in one of those network shows, you are more likely to be financially stable than if you are on a streaming series because there are all these different ways that the industry knows how to support a 24 episode season. And so that side of it, I think is really interesting and part of the reason that I never want to count out the network sitcom and the network drama.
- [18:31]
Alison Stewart
Let's move to November. The show Pluribus is coming out on Apple tv. The premise is described as, quote, the most miserable person on earth must save the world from happiness. All right, yes. Who's the most miserable person on earth?
- [18:47]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Well, so I can't say very much about this show in part because Apple, where this show exists, has not said very much about this show. What I can tell you is that it is a Vince Gilligan show and you will know Vince Gilligan from Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul and that it stars Rhea Seehorn, who is the incredible and underappreciated star of Better Call Saul. I, I don't want to say a ton about what this show actually is like, except that it is from a genre standpoint. You might look at Better Call Saul and, and Breaking Bad and think like, all right, I have a sense this is going to be a kind of realistic crime drama. This is not going to be a real crime drama in the way that you are maybe expecting it is going to veer more into a science fiction space. But it is something that I am really, really excited about talking about a lot as this season goes on. And whenever somebody who knows TV as well as Vince Gilligan makes a new show. It is always worth standing up and paying attention.
- [19:55]
Alison Stewart
Also coming out in November on hbo, a comedy call. I Love la.
- [19:59]
Interviewer/Host
Written, created and starring Rachel Cenot from.
- [20:02]
Alison Stewart
Saturday Night Live and Bottoms. She made this show. What show did she make for herself?
- [20:09]
Catherine Van Arendonk
She made a really vibey, fun new LA show. And I it is one that I expect to be really buzzy partly because there are gonna be lots of reasons to talk about it. It has a great gap, great list of guest stars, but also because we have this thing where whenever there is a new kind of self created series from a young female auteur figure, comedic auteur figure, I'm thinking obviously specifically of somebody like Lena Dunham. We tend to use it as this moment where we're like, hey, who are we now? What? What are young people like? What is this generation? And I am very much excited, expecting this to extend a conversation that I think started over the summer where we started to see some sort of interesting Gen Z comedies start to pop up. And this is gonna be in that conversation.
- [21:03]
Interviewer/Host
This text says there's a new show, looks like a historical drama about the Guinness Brewery starting this week on Netflix. Also based on the trailer, it looks good. I'm also looking forward to the new season of the Diplomat. You and me.
- [21:19]
Catherine Van Arendonk
I just watched those screeners. I had a really good time. And one thing that I would recommend everyone look forward to in the new Diplomat season is of course Alice and Janney was introduced in season two and she returns in a pretty big role in season three. And they cast Bradley Whitford as her husband, which is a very West Wing nostalgic move and he is really having a great time. Everyone seems to just be thrilled to be there.
- [21:49]
Interviewer/Host
This text says, can we talk about how bad the morning show has gotten? Interesting, Interesting. What are your thoughts on hate watching? Their entire podcast based on hate watching shows?
- [22:00]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Yeah, I kind of think hate watching doesn't exist. When you are watching something and you're like, I'm in it for the hate watch, you are enjoying it in a different way. Like that your hatred has transformed into a form of engagement. And whether or not you want to own that to yourself, yourself or not, like that's, that's between you and your God. But it is, it is why you will keep coming back. And in the case of the morning show, where I very much understand, like characterizing that way because parts of your brain are going like, are we sure this is good? What does good mean exactly? You are engaged by the way that they are drawing these characters. How absurd everything is in this case. This season is about AI it is really in this other space. It is not realistic and the performances are sort of wackadoo, but in this way that's very appealing. I think. I think the morning show, you gotta come around and just view it as a soap, you know?
- [22:57]
Interviewer/Host
Yeah. My guest is Vulture TV critic Katherine von Arendonck. Thank you so much for the preview of this fall. We really appreciate it.
- [23:06]
Catherine Van Arendonk
Oh, it's my pleasure. Always a joy.
- [23:09]
Ira Flatow
I'm Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, our team has been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine. News you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7, our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, climate change, genetic engineering, childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship. Wnyc. Org.