All Songs Considered: Cruelly ranking the best original song Oscar nominees

Summary

NPR Music – All Songs Considered

Episode: Cruelly Ranking the 'Best Original Song' Oscar Nominees
Date: March 10, 2026
Hosts: Robin Hilton (B), Stephen Thompson (A)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Robin Hilton and Stephen Thompson dissect and “cruelly” rank the five Best Original Song nominees for the 2026 Oscars. Stephen, known for his annual written rankings of Oscar song contenders, brings sharp commentary, personal insights, and a bit of music-industry chisme. The conversation moves from Diane Warren’s perennial presence to the new, surprising, and globally impactful entries. The hosts weigh the songs on musical merit, cinematic integration, and cultural resonance, while also debating subjectivity and playing selections for listeners.

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The Nominees (00:00 – 02:55)

Listed Nominees:

1. “Dear Me” – from Relentless (performed by Ke$ha, written by Diane Warren)
2. “I Lied to You” – from Sinners (performed by Miles Caton, written by Raphael Saadiq & Ludwig Göransson)
3. “Sweet Dreams of Joy” – from Viva Verdi (performed by Ana María Martínez, composed by Nicholas Pike)
4. “Golden” – from K Pop Demon Hunters (performed by EJ, Audrey Nuna & Ray Ami)
5. “Train Dreams” – from Train Dreams (performed by Nick Cave, composed with Bryce Dessner)

Memorable Quote:

"Every single year that I have written this feature, Diane Warren has been nominated." — Stephen [01:03]

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Criteria for Ranking (01:31 – 02:10)

• Rankings judge song quality, not Oscar odds.
• Consideration for how the song is incorporated into its film.
• This year’s crop of songs is deemed “strong,” especially compared to a “weak” previous year.

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The Rankings: Detailed Breakdown

5. “Dear Me” (Relentless) [02:55 – 08:34]

• Performer: Ke$ha
• Songwriter: Diane Warren, nominated for the 17th time, never a winner.
• The hosts play a substantial clip, revealing the song's motif: messages to a younger self, perseverance, and personal strength.

Stephen’s take:

“The problem is this particular run that Diane Warren has been on ever since. The songs feel extremely generic.” [07:06]

Robin’s take:

"She's been writing the same song for, like, 40 years... Often the lyrics, you know, are not much more insightful than you would find on the nearest throw pillow." [07:18]

Context & Critique:

• Warren’s consistency and perseverance are lauded—but her recent work is described as formulaic, with “throw pillow” lyrics.
• Host Robin confesses to liking Diane Warren herself more after seeing the documentary, but not necessarily her music.

---

4. “Train Dreams” (Train Dreams) [08:39 – 16:46]

• Performer: Nick Cave & Bryce Dessner
• Played nearly in full for listeners, delivering haunting imagery and deep-voiced lyricism.

Stephen’s reasoning:

"This is a closing credits song and that sometimes provides a little bit of a strike…But I appreciate that it directly expounds on the themes of the film." [13:34]

• The hosts battle over whether credit-sequence songs should count for less and acknowledge the deep integration with the film’s themes: mortality, memory, and the passage of time.
• Nick Cave’s distinctive, earthy performance is lauded for perfectly matching the protagonist’s journey.

Robin’s insight:

“If the whole point of having a song like that at the end of a movie is to sort of send you out of the theater in a certain head space…you couldn’t have gotten anybody better than Nick Cave.” [15:55]

---

3. “Sweet Dreams of Joy” (Viva Verdi) [18:14 – 25:40]

• Performer: Ana María Martínez
• Described as the “most left field” nominee—a sweeping operatic ballad from an underseen documentary about a musicians’ retirement home.
• The song was written in 2017; its power is in capturing “the awe and wonder that you might feel in old age if you’re lucky enough to reach it,” says Robin [24:50].
• The film, about Giuseppe Verdi’s vision for aging musicians, is called “slight but moving,” and the song is celebrated for originality in an otherwise mainstream field.

Wisdom from the film (Robin quoting documentary subjects):

“Life is a maze in which you must not lose yourself.” [25:12]
“If you keep your mind busy, the body will follow. We are old, but the music inside us is young.” [25:12]

---

2. “I Lied to You” (Sinners) [26:27 – 35:14]

• Performer: Miles Caton
• Writers: Raphael Saadiq & Ludwig Göransson
• The hosts agree: in most years, this would run away with Best Song.
• Used centrally in Sinners, during a pivotal juke-joint performance scene that spirals into a visual and musical fantasia.
• The song, and its staging, tie directly into the film's exploration of generational pain and the trajectory of Black music, blending blues, gospel, funk, and futuristic motifs.

Stephen’s analysis:

"My favorite scene of any movie this year and my favorite scene of any movie for the last several years is the scene in Sinners in which this song plays." [32:11]
"If you remove the song from the visuals...it loses some of its luster." [33:09]

Robin’s verdict:

"For me, what it came down to, I would have put Sinners at number one because it is such a critical part of the storytelling in the movie." [34:23]

• Despite the love, Stephen ranks it #2, feeling its standalone version is less powerful than its cinematic one.

---

1. “Golden” (K Pop Demon Hunters) [35:14 – 39:33]

• Performers: EJ, Audrey Nuna, Ray Ami — as fictional K-pop group Huntrix
• The task set by the film: write a fictional song that feels like “the biggest song in the world” within the universe (and outside it).
• Hosts note that, rarely, the songwriting matches its astronomical narrative hype, delivering a bonafide, cross-media pop sensation—#1 for eight weeks, Grammy and Golden Globe winner.

Stephen’s reasoning:

“This song...has to be seen as taking the world by storm. That is one of the hardest asks that you can give songwriters...and then the song is better than you think it’s going to be.” [36:15 / 37:06]

Robin’s praise:

“Golden was a better performance, maybe—like the vocals on it. EJ is a staggeringly talented singer.” [37:47]

• Cultural impact pushes it ahead, as it became a real-world hit and phenomenon.

Stephen’s prediction:

“This soundtrack was a phenomenon. And the song golden was one of the biggest hits of 2025. It absolutely blew up the charts. It was number one for eight weeks. It was a massive, massive pop cultural sensation of a variety that you don't usually get.” [37:55]

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Overall Takeaways & Notable Moments

• The hosts celebrate a strong and diverse Oscar song slate, recognizing a blend of legacy songwriting (Diane Warren), cinematic gravitas (Nick Cave), operatic bravado (Sweet Dreams of Joy), deep narrative integration (Sinners), and global pop stardom (K Pop Demon Hunters).
• The episode sparkles thanks to their banter, personal revelations, and willingness to mark genre boundaries—and their quick-witted jibes about music industry tropes.

Memorable Quotes:

• "You've also been known to write the occasional feature for NPR...I'm like, you really actually do quite a lot. It's alarming." — Robin [00:27]
• "Very often the lyrics, you know, are not much more insightful than you would find on the nearest throw pillow." — Stephen [07:32]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Nominee Introduction: 02:10
• #5 "Dear Me": 02:55 – 08:34
• Diane Warren Discussion: 06:18 – 08:34
• #4 "Train Dreams": 08:39 – 16:46
• Song Use in Credits Debate: 13:30 – 15:55
• #3 "Sweet Dreams of Joy": 18:14 – 25:40
• Wisdom from Viva Verdi: 25:12
• #2 "I Lied to You": 26:27 – 35:14
• Why Not #1?: 32:11 – 33:09
• #1 "Golden": 35:14 – 39:33
• Chart Impact & Oscars Prognosis: 37:55 – 39:33

---

Conclusion

Robin and Stephen’s dynamic discussion gives listeners not only insight into the songs themselves, but appreciation for the nuanced craft of film songwriting—where a “throw pillow” lyric might compete against a genuine global banger or a composition that “makes you feel young at eighty.” This episode is both a deep dive for Oscar aficionados and an overview for the music-curious, packed with sharp critique, gushy admiration, and a clear-eyed sense of pop, legacy, and artistry.

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For deeper dives on each category before the Oscars, check out their upcoming preview on Pop Culture Happy Hour.

Transcript

[A]

This message comes from Capital One with the Venture X card, earn unlimited double miles, a $300 annual capital one travel credit, and access to airport lounges. Capital One, what's in your wallet? Terms apply [e-mail] this episode of All

[B]

Songs Considered comes to you from the NPR Music podcast, where you will also find new music Friday every Friday with your host, Stephen Thompson.

[A]

Hello, Robin.

[B]

Stephen, you're also a host for Pop Culture Happy Hour. You report on the Billboard charts. I was gonna try to promote some of your stuff. I'm like, you really actually do quite a lot. It's alarming.

[A]

I thought this guy was like, didn't actually work here.

[B]

Yeah. Every day I'm like, how is he still here? And then I had to make a.

[A]

Does he get a check?

[B]

Are we paying him for this? You've also been known to write the occasional feature for npr, including one that you have been doing for a number of years now. Every year around this time of year, you have been ranking the best song nominees for the Oscars.

[A]

Yeah, I've been doing this since 2019. Every single year that I have written this feature. Diane Warren has been nominated.

[B]

I think she's on her ninth year in a row now.

[A]

She is on her ninth year in a row being nominated from her total 17 nominations. It's mind boggling for best original song. It would be, in a way, it would be more mind boggling if most of the songs were

[B]

we're going to get into on this episode because that's what we're going to do. We're going to, in your own words, cruelly, cruelly, cruelly rank the best song nominees for this year's Oscars. What is it? What's your criteria? Is this like, do you rank these based on just the quality of the song or what you think the chances are that it's going to win or

[A]

it's definitely never based on odds of victory, though usually at some point in the article, I will say, like, expect this one to win. You know, this is the odds on favorite or whatever. But I'm really trying to rank them just in order of quality. And I actually think this is a pretty good crop of songs. Oh, certainly compared to last year.

[B]

Yeah, last year was, I thought, an unusually weak batch. This is an unusually strong batch. I'm going to just let you rank these and, you know, I'll defer to you. I think we're probably going to be mostly in agreement here. But let me just, I'll quickly say what the nominees are and then we'll just start with number five and work backwards. You mentioned Diane Warren. Her song Dear Me from the Relentless. The Relentless documentary.

[A]

The documentary Diane Warren, Relentless.

[B]

That's the name of the documentary. I Lied to youo from Sinners, Sweet Dreams of Joy from Viva Verdi. That documentary golden from K Pop Demon Hunters. And then Train Dreams from the film Train Dreams. What do you got at number five?

[A]

It is the song Dear Me from the documentary Diane Warren, Colon relentless, performed by Ke$ha.

[C]

If I could write a note to my younger self, here's what I'd say. Everything you're feeling now won't always keep you down. There'll be better days dear to me. Don't worry about it. You're gonna be all right. You'll see, you'll see. Dear me, it's gonna be all right.

[D]

All right. Trust me.

[C]

All of the pain is all gonna fade. You might think you can't do it, but you're gonna get through this. It'll all you see. Dear me. I know you feel like nobody understands what you're going through. You just wanna run and hide. Every day feeling like the whole world's against you.

[D]

Dear me,

[C]

it gets better. You're gonna be just.

[D]

You'll see,

[C]

you see? Dear me, it's gonna be all right.

[D]

All right.

[C]

Trust me. All of the pain is all gonna fade. You might think you can't do it, but you're gonna get through this. It'll all get better soon.

[B]

You.

[C]

That's what I'd say to you. Dear me. Dear me. Dear me.

[D]

Dear me. I'm writing you this letter to let your name know.

[C]

You might think you can't do it? But you're going to get through this. It will all get.

[D]

Dear me, Dear me. I'm writing you this love.

[C]

It's going to get better. Everything's going to be all right. You see? Oh, that's what I'm saying to you. Dear me.

[B]

It is staggering. It is staggering the number of songs she's had nominated.

[A]

17.

[B]

17. And she's never won?

[A]

No, she has never won. And I will say, in Diane Warren's defense, I think Diane Warren should have won two Academy Awards.

[B]

All right, let's hear it. Cause I have won.

[A]

Okay. I think she should have won twice and been nominated roughly five times.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think I don't want to miss a thing. Should have won over when youn Believe from Prince of Egypt in the late 90s. I think her song with Lady Gaga, till It Happens to youo, should have won over the Sam Smith James Bond song.

[B]

That was 2016. That's the one that I had down. I thought I. Of all of the years, that's the one. You had to pick one.

[A]

It was the strongest song in that field. It was the most heartfelt song in the field. It was the song that had the most to say in the field.

[B]

Incredible performance during the ceremony.

[A]

Incredible performance by Lady Gaga. It is a great song. The problem is this particular run that Diane Warren has been on ever since. The songs feel extremely generic.

[B]

This is my biggest problem. She's been writing the same song for, like, 40 years. I'm not dismissing the themes of the songs. They're important. They resonate with people. But it's always, we're going to get through this. We're stronger. It's.

[A]

I'm standing with you, I'll rise, I'll. You know, a lot of them are like, I will prevail over the obstacle that I face. And very often the lyrics, you know, are not much more insightful than you would find on the nearest throw pillow.

[B]

I will say this. I'm not a big fan of many of her songs, but I became a fan of her after I watched that documentary.

[A]

Oh, she's a pistol.

[B]

She really. I really. She won me over. That's one word for her. She's. She is relentless. But, you know, all the stuff about her child childhood and her relationship with her parents, particularly her mom, that really kind of broke my heart. And I came away from that documentary really not liking her music any more than I already did, but liking her a whole lot more.

[A]

I did find it illuminating. As somebody who ends up having to write about her at this time every single year, I appreciated seeing the movie and kind of getting that perspective on it. But listening to these songs in a vacuum, this is the fifth best out of five.

[B]

So dear me, from Diane Warren in at number five, what do you have at number four?

[A]

Well, now we're getting into songs I really like.

[B]

It really does start getting more difficult. Like these next couple and then the next couple.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It's either they're in tears, what three or four are going to be, and then one or two are going to be is where we might have some disagreement.

[A]

Exactly. These are in tears. And I don't think there's necessarily a wrong answer if you're ranking between 3 and 4. I think these are both solid songs. The song I went with at number four is the song Train Dreams from Train Dreams, performed by Nick Cave and Bryce Destner.

[E]

I've seen a grizzly big as a House Walk across an open plain Heard of a boy called Elvis something His voice could drive young girls insane I've seen a man from a mile away Shoot a bobcat through the brain but lately I've been having dreams Crazy dreams I can't explain A woman standing in a field of flowers and a screaming locomotive train Crazy dreams that go on for hours and I can't begin to tell you how that feels. Seen an elk with twisted antlers Throw bright lightning across the sky Seen a man with a broken curse Leap from a bridge and try to fly and I've seen a boy who was a dog who became a man who forgot to die Lately I've been having dreams Crazy dreams I can't explain A woman standing in a field of flowers Screaming locomotive train Crazy dreams that go on for hours and I can't begin to tell you how that feels. The space that connects me where I am now to the place where I'll one day be it's measured in the words that we speak and the strange and wondrous things I've seen It's measured in truth it's measured in love Measured in a tendency to pain it's measured by a girl in a field of flowers Screaming dream of a midnight train this has been going on for years Years and years and years and years and years and years and years and years I can't begin to tell you how that feel.

[D]

Sam.

[B]

So I had this one at number three.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Myself, I actually went back and forth.

[A]

I switched them back and forth.

[B]

Okay. Is number three for you? Viva Verdi.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So I had these two flipped, but. Well, you make your case and I'll tell you what.

[A]

I think one of the criteria that I use when I'm ranking the songs is how is the song incorporated into the movie and this song? Absolutely. This is a closing credits song and that sometimes provides a little bit of a strike against something. As far as the purposes of ranking, I do appreciate about this song that it is directly expounding on the themes of the film. This is a song that is clearly written in concert with the film and the filmmaker. This is a movie that is about a life in total. It is about visions of death and kind of an accumulation of a mix of kind of traumas and wonders. And the song is about all of those things and really speaks directly to those things. Bryce Dessner gives it this kind of gorgeous, very Bryce Destnery arrangement. Nick Cave, who certainly has an extremely large amount of gravitas as a singer, as a performer, as A lyricist, somebody who has also lived a life full of trauma and wonder, invests the song with a lot of, like I said, gravitas. And I think it works very well. The only thing that ticked it from number three to number four for me is that it is not incorporated in.

[B]

Interesting. You're dinging it for that because it is the only one that is just a true, kind of almost recitation of what happens. Here's the end of the film. It's the credit sequence. So we need a song. So they go to Nick Cave and say, will you write us a song about the movie that we can tack on in the end? I get that. But I guess if the whole point of having a song like that at the end of a movie is to sort of send you out of the theater in a certain head space, I mean, I would assume the movie has done that. But if you need this song at the end, like, here's how you should feel. I think you couldn't have gotten anybody better for this than Nick Cave. His voice is perfect for it. It's earthy. It's kind of. It's Okie. It's like, you know, it's like. It's. It's full of whiskey and age and time, and that's sort of what the movie is. It follows this guy. You mentioned some of the themes. One of the other themes is just the vastness of time because you follow him from his childhood in the 1800s all the way into old age. I think he lives to be in

[A]

the 80s into the 19, into the 1960s.

[B]

And to me, this was a stronger song than what you have.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I've really gone back and forth, and as we're discussing it, I'm like, maybe I should put it at number three because it is a strong song. And I will say, I mean, you saw Train Dreams, the film as well. I think it's a beautiful film. And it is a film that perfectly nails its final frame. The final frame of the film.

[F]

Can we.

[A]

Is this a. I don't think there's no reason to spoil it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I mean, it's not a plot. It's not a plot point. It is just a perfect image to sum up that moment. And then you get in that final frame. You are then kind of drifting into the song. That is the perfect way to experience this song. And I think the power of this song is greater coming out of that scene than it is as a freestanding video on YouTube.

[B]

So. Train dreams by Nick Cave from the film Train Dreams You've got that at number four.

[F]

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[B]

All right, we're cruelly ranking the best song nominees for the Oscars this year. Stephen Thompson here. We've. Let's see, at number five, we had Diane Warren's song Dear Me. And then at number four, you had Trained Dreams by Nick Cave and Bryce Dessner. So that means at number three, you've got Sweet Dreams of Joy from Viva Verdi.

[D]

Soft, softly here from a whisper so near Slowly stirring sweet muses from night's fall Round, round and around Suddenly soaring Higher, higher Blazing,

[G]

Burning.

[D]

And finding. Sweet. Satan and I in a flow of desire Re awaken then suddenly sound down to a wild and. Spirit. Sweet dreams of joy Sweet dreams of joy Sweet dream.

[A]

So this is definitely the most left field. So left field entry in this category.

[B]

A for something totally different.

[A]

And, and honestly, like, I was impressed because, you know, they release a short list of the 15 kind of candidates for nomination a while before the nominations come out. And so you can see what songs are eligible for nomination. There are 15 of those songs. And when I was looking over that list, this was the one where I was like, well, there's absolutely no way that's getting nominated.

[G]

Right?

[A]

And then, and then it was. And I'm really glad that it was. I mean, viva Verdi. The film itself is this very, very slight documentary about a retirement home for musicians in Italy founded by the composer Giuseppe Verdi, who died in 1901. And he, you know, he wanted to create a place where retired musicians could kind of live, you know, without having to worry about anything, and could mentor young artists. And the film itself, I don't know if the film contains enough insight to support a feature film. I think it might have worked better as a documentary short. But the song in question, which is excerpted about halfway through the film, is an operatic piece composed by Nicholas pike and performed by Ana Maria Martinez. And it is this kind of lovely, freestanding piece that gives you a sense of the emotion and depth and grace of what a piece like this can do. It is a very uplifting piece. It is called Sweet Dreams of Joy. I think lyrically, it's maybe a little cloying, but musically it is really grand and sweeping and beautiful. And I think the story of this film is kind of interesting because the song, this song in question, was released in 2017.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's how long they've been working on the film, because it is absolutely eligible for an Academy Award. It was written for this film. This movie was largely made so long ago that most of its subjects have died.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so this film is finally coming out. It's finally come out. You can stream it on a streaming service called Jolt, which is like. Are we just naming streaming services after energy drinks from the 90s?

[B]

Well, there is Prime.

[A]

You can watch it on Prime Energy drinks. You can watch it on Surge. But, you know, it is a very little seen film and it is a very little heard song. If you go to YouTube and kind of click on the videos for each of these songs, how many times has the video for golden from K Pop Demon Hunters been viewed on YouTube versus how many times has the video for Sweet Dreams of Joy been watched? I know it is like low five figures if you combine all of the YouTube videos of this song.

[B]

Well, again, sort of like comparing it to the Diane Warren, when you got golden in the mix, it's just not a fair competition. But everything that you said and just that I love, I actually don't find it terribly cloying. To me, it's like, again, it's more of a mood piece. They do sing at one point. Time slipping by in a flow of desire reawakened. But more than anything, though, it's really capturing just the awe and wonder that you might feel in old age if you're lucky enough to reach out if

[A]

you have lived a full life. And so, yeah, it absolutely is a song where, when you take it in the context of the film, it accumulates more power lyrically. Absolutely. And I did just find, like, man, that song absolutely worked on me. It created that kind of swell of wonder and joy that you would want a piece of music in this context

[B]

to bring out some great little bits of wisdom in this film that I wrote down as I was watching it. Life is a maze in which you must not lose yourself. Life is a maze in which you must not lose yourself. I love that. Like, it's not a road, it's a maze. Right. Here's another one I wrote down. If you keep your mind busy, the body will follow. Yeah, we are old, but the music inside us is young. So you had it at number three, which brings us to now.

[A]

We are taking a gigantic leap, huge leap here.

[B]

And I have given this so much thought and I'm betting that you and I don't agree on these two.

[A]

I bet you're right.

[F]

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[B]

Okay, so you tell me what you think is number two.

[A]

So what I went with at number two and I agonized over this because I love not only both of these songs but both of these films. At number two and I will explain myself at number two is. Is I Lied to youo from Sinners, performed by Miles Caton, written by Raphael Siddiq and Ludwig Goranson.

[G]

Something I've been wanting to tell you for a long time. It might hurt you. Hope you don't lose your mind. Well, I was just a boy about 8 years old. You threw me a bible on that Mississippi road. See I love you papa you did all you could do. And they say the truth hurts so I lied to you. Yes, I lied to you I look. Somebody take me in your own. Somebody take me home. Somebody take me to O tonight. Somebody take me. Somebody take me to your arms tonight. Somebody take me. I hope you can stand it all when I'm out here didn't preach at all see I'm full of the blues Holy water too. I know that you hurt so I lied to you. So preach your speak your words I know the truth hurts you. Yes, I like I love I love it's.

[D]

Ram. Sa.

[B]

I mean, to me, this is just a staggering, staggering piece of music used more brilliantly in the context of the film than any of the other pieces in this bunch. But go ahead and you tell me why you think it's number two. And I fully acknowledge you agonized over this.

[A]

I absolutely agonized over this because my favorite scene of any movie this year and my favorite scene of any movie for the last several years is the scene in Sinners in which this song plays. This song is performed at Smoke and Stack's juke joint in Sinners. At about midway through the film, Miles Caton is performing the song. The song absolutely lyrically expands on the themes of the film. He is, you know, he is a preacher's son and he's sort of talking to his father in the song. The song then spins out into this fantasia where in the film it is incorporating not only thousands of years of music's past, but some ideas of music's future.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so you see tribal dances, you see this kind of futuristic, you know, Jimi Hendrix of the year, like P Funk guitarists.

[B]

There's breakdancing, there's a dj.

[A]

Beats come in. It is an incredible scene. The only reason I rank it at number two. First of all, I gotta hear this. I'll talk about number one in a second. If you take the song and divorce it from elements of the film having less to do with the song, if you remove the song from the visuals that Ryan Coogler adds, it loses some of its luster. If you listen to the song divorced from the film, I think there is a kind of midpoint of the song where the visuals are doing most of the work. And then the song soars visually and sonically at the end.

[B]

Well, okay, so this is why I ask you.

[A]

This is a minor quibble. This would blow away the field most years.

[B]

This is why I ask what your criteria is. Because if you're just talking like, is this just a great song versus this song? Is this also, you know, which is the better just song? Or is it? How important is it to the movie? I would argue that this song is more important to the movie than what you have at number one. Golden is to K Pop Demon Hunters. Great song. Again, it's a real Sophie's choice for me too. But for me, what it came down to, I would have put Sinners at number one because it is such a critical part of the storytelling in the movie. That movie is almost half the movie. It is without that scene. That scene to me is what takes that movie from. This is a really great, fun popcorn movie to, oh, this movie is now blowing my mind.

[A]

It is so, so, so hard to rank them. I think this is absolutely, not only musically, but just cinematically the best moment of Sinners. I don't think the movie would be only half the film it is without it. Cause I think there's so many other incredibles.

[B]

I'm exaggerating. I'm totally exaggerating. But I will say that when this movie came out, I was like, Oscar, it is 100% eschewing. And then a little bit later on in the year, then we get golden and we get K Pop Demon Hunters. And I thought, oh, no, no. These two songs should not have to go up against each other at the same Oscars because it is so close.

[A]

It is really unfair that one of these films didn't come out last year. I mean, one of these songs is gonna win. So I'm going to be thrilled.

[B]

Can you imagine if this is the year? They're like Diane Warren.

[A]

Diane Warren's your time.

[B]

We have neglected you for far too long. This is your year. All right, well, so let's just go to number one. We'll talk about it and we'll let it. We'll hit the song, and we'll let the song play us out here. So you've got golden from K Pop Demon Hunters, number one.

[A]

If you somehow have not heard the song, it is performed by EJ, Audrey Noona and Ray Ami. And in the film. Golden is performed in the film by the fictional K pop group Huntrix. And it is like their hot new single. We are to believe as we watch the film that this hot new single is the biggest song in the world. That is one of the hardest asks that you could give songwriters writing a song for a movie. This song, this song that we are writing for this movie has to be seen as taking the world by storm.

[B]

Well, you know what that makes me think? How many moments in movies where there's that thing that you've been imagining that they've set up and they never show it or whatever because they know, like, it doesn't matter. Your imagination is more powerful than anything we come up with, so we're just not even gonna bother. And then every now and then, someone will do it. And it works like the US Version of the film the Ring. There's this VHS tape, right, that you can't watch or you're gonna die. And the whole time I'm watching the movie, I'm like, they're never gonna show

[A]

that it's a MacGuffin. It's the suitcase in Pulp Fiction.

[B]

Right? Exactly. Oh, that's another great one. But they do show the video, and holy God in heaven, it is the most horrified. Like, they could not have pulled it off better. And that's so true when you set

[A]

the bar for yourself that high.

[B]

Oh, you're making. I don't know, man. You're starting to make a case here.

[A]

And then you clear it. It has been promising this song throughout the film, and then the song is better than you think it's going to be. That is the experience of watching this movie. This movie would not be. You said. You mentioned. You said about Sinners, like, oh, this wouldn't be. This would be half the movie without this song. What would this movie be without the exceptionally high quality and craftsmanship of the songs that run throughout it?

[B]

Yeah, I don't know. I guess the. The two distinctions that I was making with golden and I Lied to youo is. I Lied to youo seemed more important to the story. And it is an incredible song to me. Golden was a better performance, maybe, like. Like the vocals on it.

[A]

EJ is a staggeringly talented singer.

[B]

Insane. An insane performance on this song, but you're making a strong case.

[A]

Well, and like, let's also take one more thing into consideration, and this is. This is an X factor that nobody really wants to talk about when they're choos things to win awards. But I mean, both of these movies were phenomena. This soundtrack was a phenomenon. And the song golden was one of the biggest hits of 2025. It absolutely blew up the charts. It was number one for eight weeks. It was a massive, massive pop cultural sensation of a variety that you don't usually get. And let's. Let's face it, Robyn, there are. These are not the only parallels between the movie Sinners and the movie K Pop Demon Hunters. There are, like, weird pl.

[B]

That's actually true. Yeah.

[A]

Between these two films. I'm not the first person to point that out. And you have two authentic cultural phenomena that, like, were made for these films, like, out of whole cloth.

[B]

Well, I think golden may be unstoppable at this point. I mean, I think, you know, it got the Grammy. It got a Golden Globe already. Is that your prediction, you think?

[A]

It is my prediction in this category. I don't want to spoil the Oscars preview that we have on Pop Culture Happy Hour dropping this Friday, where we predict. We make all of our predictions in the major categories at this year's. Oscars, but I am. I am. I will give you a sneak peek into that episode and say that I'm more bullish on Sinners chances of winning major awards than some people are. I suspect that Sinners is going to have a very, very good night at the Oscars. I don't think it will win in this category. If it does, it might be a signifier of a greater sweep for that film.

[B]

Well, as always, All Songs Considered wouldn't be possible without the help and support of Otis Hart, our deputy director at NPR Music. The executive producer for NPR Music is Saray Mohammad. And our fearless leader here at the mothership is Sonali Mehta. Stephen, in addition to Pop Culture Happy Hour, you will be back with a bunch of new releases on Friday.

[A]

Yeah, we'll talk about the James Blake record. We'll also have a lightning round with picks from a bunch of members of the NPR Music staff. But for the other records that we're talking about for March 13, you're just going to to listen to the show.

[B]

Friend of mine told me when he was a kid he would give he had to give oral book reports. He would just read the first page or a couple pages or whatever and say, and if you want to know more, you'll just have to read the book. All right. Thanks, Stephen.

[A]

Thank you, Robin.

[B]

I'm Robin Hilton. It's All Songs Considered from NPR Music.

[C]

I was a ghost I was alone yeah given the throne I didn't know how to believe I was the queen that I'm meant to be I live

[D]

two lives try to play both sides But I couldn't find my own place

[C]

Caught a problem child cuz I got too wild but now that's how I'm getting paid could that to your stage

[D]

done hiding now I'm shining like a B

[C]

We dreaming heart we came so

[D]

far now I believe we're going up, up up it's our moment you know together we're going to be gonna be going.

[C]

Oh I would take no fears, no

[D]

lies as to where.

[C]

So long to break these walls down down to wake up and feel like me Put these patterns all in the past now and finally live like the girl they all see no more hiding I'll be shining like I'm born to be Cuz we are hunters voices strong

[D]

enough I know I believe we're going up.

[F]

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