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From NPR Music, this is Alt Latino. I'm Ana Maria Ser. Okay, so Felix is still out, and there is a lot going on in the Latin music and honestly, music world right now, and it all revolves around one guy We've talked a lot about Bad Buddy. Now, to help me parse through all of this, I've brought on once again the amazing, the incredible Isabel Gomez Sarmiento. Isa. Welcome to the show.
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C
Thank you for having me.
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Okay, so we're taping this episode on Monday, February 2nd. Last night was the Grammys, and Bad Bunny took home the top prize of the night, album of the year for his album de Villitira Almas photos. This coming Sunday, he will be the super bowl halftime show performer. I mean, this is one of the most legendary moments we've seen for Latin music in maybe the last century, I'd venture to say. So let's get into it. Issa, what are your initial thoughts, takeaways, feelings about last night's?
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C
I mean, I think the thing that really comes to mind is that this accomplishment was always going to be bad Bunnies and it was always going to be an artist from Puerto Rico. I think it's precisely because of the space that he occupies as not only an artist from the islands, but an artist that has always carried the island with him as he has completely skyrocketed in his career. I think he's done something we haven't seen any other Latin artists do, and it relates back to his identity and where he comes from and the way that he wears his flag.
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B
I mean, that really is something we saw him be consistently on message about first and foremost last night. I mean, he won album of the year and the first words out of his mouth are Puerto Rico. I mean, that is something that he has always been focused on. And it's something as I've been speaking with people in advance of the super bowl, talking about guessing what he's going to talk about. I think we really saw a preview of that in some ways last night where we saw him continually elevating the island, not only in obviously what he explicitly said, but the things that were said around him. And I'm thinking about, you know, the way that Trevor Noah was kind of mentioning everything that he's done For Puerto Rico, the way that he's kind of elevated the island politically, economically, socially. I mean, these are things to see that on a national broadcast in the mainland United States, that. That's pretty significant.
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C
Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's two things here, because I think there is this achievement of him as a Latin artist and an artist who represents Spanish language music, but also the fact that, being from Puerto Rico, he has such a different relationship to the mainland US Than the rest of the Latin music industry. And that's such a clear part of his music, of the message of this album in particular, De vitirmas fotos. He's very specific about loving his island, but being very honest about the bad things that have happened on the island, being very honest about the suffering that the people on the island have gone through and are still going through, and how present colonialism still is, which is something that really sets Puerto Rico apart from other parts of Latin America, period.
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B
Well, and I think that that's been a really key part of the conversation around Bad Bunny as an artist, both leading up to the Grammys and the super bowl, is this question of, you know, what is his responsibility to Latin America at large, to Latinos in the United States. And I think what we saw last night was kind of this perfect intersection of his deep commitment to Puerto Rico and. And the ways that that's kind of opening up very naturally for him into a larger Latin American and even US Latino community. I mean, for him, right, this idea of supporting Puerto Rico, of elevating Puerto Rico, is really intrinsically tied to consistently showing the value of Latino life, really, or Latino lives. And that's something that, again, this isn't new. This isn't a debitira mas photos phenomenon, right? Like, it's not like, as he started talking about, you know, let's preserve our culture, let's preserve our home more explicitly in the music that. That was the first time that we heard him be. So kind of like you said, owning Puerto Rico's flaws while also elevating it. We see that in. He goes from saying, you know, ay, Puerto Rico's complicated in all these ways, but also Puerto Rico's amazing, and everyone wants to be Latino. And I think last night was the first time that on, like, this national, global level, people really got to see those two things come together. He condemned ice. He talked about, really, more importantly, what makes being Latino so powerful, which is this idea of valuing love over hate, of valuing family over hate. And so I think that in a way, he's setting us up to see what we'll see in the super bowl, which is him being political in this very natural and now maybe a little more US Latino focused way.
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C
Yeah, absolutely. And I think a big part of that, too, is the fact that his message has always been so political, and that's always been such a straightforward part of the music, both in the influences that he pulls from the sounds and the instruments that he uses, and just lyrically, the things that he's talking about. I think what we're seeing with Bad Bunny is kind of the opposite of the sort of pan Latin sound that we saw with something like Despacito and just like the explosion of reggaeton, where the hyper commercialization of that music sort of diluted that message. And I think Bad Bunny's ability to consistently bring that back into the music is what really has gotten him to this point. And I think last night he proved yet again, that this has always been his focus. And. And I think the other thing that's interesting about that is that as he's sort of grown, you know, we've watched him grow over the past 10 years, from 2016 to now, his career has completely exploded. At the same time, political narratives in this country about Latinos and about immigrants have taken a very combative tone. And I think even though Puerto Rico continues to be his focus, he has shifted into being this larger cultural figure for Latinos at large. And last night, with his speeches, with the way that he was talking about, you know, dedicating album of the year to anybody who has had to leave their homeland, talking about how he's pro love and pro his people before being against anything else. I think he's really positioning himself into that bigger role, into that sort of, like, global artist that gets booked to headline the super bowl in a really fascinating way because Puerto Rico is still at the forefront of what he's doing. But I think he sees the context of the weight that the island is carrying in kind of a different way than he did even before this album came out a little over a year ago.
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B
Issa, I would love to take a second to talk about that image of the Latino that he presents and kind of what the precedent is at the Grammys. I mean, we've seen very few examples of someone like Bad Bunny in such a high position in obviously receiving, like, the premio of all premios, the Album of the Year award. There's been, I think, in the past, what we've seen so far is often maybe a little bit of a flattening of an image of what a Latino is, or maybe like a very specific, you know, more American, broader American audience, sellable image. I mean, let's just talk for a second about what's come close to being a precedent for what we saw last night. I think the first example we have of anything like this is from 1965, when Brazilian artist Joao Alberto wins with Stan Getz for Best Album of the Year. Now, we don't see anything like this again, Issa, until 2000, when Carlos Santana wins with the band Santana for their album Supernatural.
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C
At the turn of the millennium, we have sort of this, like, Latin boom in the U.S. right? We have Ricky Martin, we have Gloria Estefan. We start to see these bigger sort of Latin icons who are commercializing Latin music and making it very accessible and universal. And this is an album with Carlos Santana. He has Rob Thomas on it. It becomes a huge commercial success and sort of revives his career. But I think what's really notable is that it seems like the way that Latinos sort of make ends at the Grammys up until this point is really to appeal to a universal pan Latin audience. It's like we lose specificity in order to relate to everyone, in order to have sort of these just like vaguely tropical rhythms that have a Latin flavor that is not easily identifiable as being from one place or meaning. One thing. We have the creation of this sort of, like, capital L Latino identity in music in the US that doesn't really exist outside of this country.
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B
And I think it's important to note, Issa, that the academy spends after that kind of the next. I mean, basically 26 years up until now, kind of tiptoeing on this line of trying to somehow incorporate music from the Spanish language, world music from Latin America, without fully doing it. Because we have that win from the band Santana in 2000, which, realistically, like you said, that album incorporates Latin sounds. It has one song in Spanish. It's made by a mix of people, some of Latin descent, some not. And then we see a complete lack of acknowledgement in 2002 of Shakira's attempted crossover album, which she did in English, laundry Service. And then over the years, you know, we see this back and forth of Despacito getting acknowledged but snubbed, and only when Justin Bieber goes on it. So it's constantly this not quite matching up to the numbers and the size of the impact type of acknowledgement from the Academy, right? Like they'll maybe say the name or give a nomination up or have a performance or have a Performance, have many a performance, because our music is fun to perform. But until up until recently, even with Bad Bunny, the way that, you know, they started to acknowledge him in the urban categories when he was getting consistently, you know, Spotify's most streamed artists globally. So this is, I mean, an adjustment that we haven't seen in that way. I mean, Bad Bunny is an artist who sings entirely in Spanish, who is not from the mainland United States. I mean, these are some key differences.
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C
Yeah. And I think in that time, what we also see is sort of the death of the crossover. Right. Like, we almost start to see the reverse where, like, with the Internet and with streaming and social media, sort of the accelerated globalization of music, you have someone like Justin Bieber wanting to jump on Despacito, and you start to have figures like Bad Bunny emerge who are very unapologetically just leaning into their roots and leaning into their cultural specificity in a way that I think we haven't had Latin artists do before, because they're not trying to appease any and everyone who might listen to their music, but they're actually speaking to someone in particular. They have a very particular audience in mind. And for Bad Bunny, it always comes back to Puerto Rico.
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Issa, you know, as we're preparing to watch him on this super bowl stage, which is another obviously massively visible national stage, we have a very kind of similar narrative there. You know, it's not that there's never been any kind of Latin artist to perform, but again, it's that question of the completeness of the Latino identity that ends up being represented or the specific. Right. Like you said, specific country sound that gets represented on that stage. I think a great example is the JLO Shakira performance that was in 2020.
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The empire of the world unite we.
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Are alive.
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And the stars make love to the universe and you touch me and I'm like.
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And I'm like. You know, I spoke with someone, Professor Perry Johnson at usc, and she is actually working on a book about super bowl halftime performances. And one of the things that she. She wanted to note to me, or really made a point to say, is that ultimately she didn't really feel like JLo and Shakira moved a cultural needle because people ended up focusing so much on the sexuality of the performance, on, you know, the kind of vague references they made to their Latinoness, like J. Lo with the Puerto Rican flag, some of Shakira's moments, without really digging in to their specific identities, their specific experiences. And so I think what we've seen A lot on these stages, when people have had the chance to maybe sing for a second in Spanish or present a Latino thing is they ultimately end up kind of falling into to the tropes of the Latin identity that we see across the country. And I think that that's a more comfortable position to do it from. Because to me, the more I think about Bad Bunny standing on a Super bowl stage, much in the way that it felt in a lot of his speeches and things that were said about him last night, is the biggest and most needle moving thing he can do, is present a complete and nuanced Latino identity on that stage.
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C
Yeah. And I think it's notable, you know, looking at someone like J. Lo and Shakira, I think it comes back to a lack of a concrete message. The highlight of that super bowl performance was the fact that Bad Bunny was there and performed briefly with them. But I do think it comes back to the consistency and the fact that for the past 10 years, Bad Bunny sound has done a lot of different things. He's worked with a lot of different people. He's explored Puerto Rico from a lot of different angles. But who he is speaking to and what he is trying to say about his island, about what it has gone through historically, what it is going through right now and what he wants to see for the future, has been the same across the board throughout these 10 years that he's been releasing music. And I think that's what makes the super bowl performance so high stakes, is that he's coming to this with a very specific mission, audience and message in mind. But that's nothing new for Bad Bunny. That's kind of what he's been doing this entire time.
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B
I think a huge part of how successful or how impactful or maybe how noticeable that message will be. Issa really has a lot to do with the language he delivers it in. And I do want to spend a second talking the Spanish of it all, because that is a huge part of this.
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C
Right.
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B
Like what made last night so pivotal, so historical, is the fact that that album, De Villiti Rama photos, is quite literally entirely in Spanish. His speeches were a lot in Spanish. I mean, this has been like a key tenet of his uncompromising stance. Right. Is to quite literally just speak in the language that he speaks in that for almost the entirety of the last century, has been seen as not a way to become successful in a mainstream music market.
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Yeah, I mean, I think you're completely right. Most of what he said last night was entirely in Spanish. He has been very outspoken through his career about how little he cares about needing to speak English, to conform to a particular image of what he should be doing or to reach a certain level of success. It's like left and right. All he has done is say, yeah, and I'm doing it in Spanish. I'm reaching this new milestone, and I'm doing it in Spanish. So I think the fact that he's doing it at the super bowl just indicates how much things have changed. And whereas we used to have pop stars like J. Lo and Shakira that were expected by the industry and maybe molded by the industry into being these sort of like bilingual universal icons, he has totally rewritten that rulebook, certainly for Latino artists, but I think in general for global music. And, and we know the NFL has been very outspoken about the fact that this is why they picked him to perform at the Super Bowl. It's not necessarily just about what he represents for Latin audiences or what he's doing with Spanish language music. It's about the fact that he's a massively successful global artist, period. And there are lots of people who listen to him and lots of people who appreciate his music and his message that are not Spanish speakers, but they're willing to look up translations, they're willing to engage with it in other ways. They're willing to listen and to learn.
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B
And it's an interesting question, Issa, that I think about a lot is like, you know, like you said, people are returning to more folkloric roots. They're being more proud about. About who they are and where they're from. And I think there is a larger appetite for accepting that. And it's hard to say, you know, in this moment, if it's Bad Bunny who is responsible or a leader. I mean, he's clearly a leader in it, but if he's, you know, opened all those doors, if it's that we're in a different moment culturally that, that we feel ready to receive that. But I. I also think it's important to note that, I mean, he did have to be the best. The best over and over and over again. I mean, he did have to be like this, completely unavoidable, constantly breaking records, touring the world, being the most listened to artist on Spotify for four years. I mean, these are like massive feats that to me, it feels like would come after a Grammy album win, or at least in the in between. And the fact that he's had to kind of achieve all of these things. I do think in part his commitment to Spanish did kind of make it take maybe a little longer. Could be for him to get there.
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C
Yeah, certainly. And I think it also just something that I was really moved by last night at the Grammys, watching his reaction a the fact that he was there seemingly by himself, like he wasn't, you know, he didn't turn around and hug anyone, kiss anyone, whatever. Like he gave himself a few seconds. He sat there, he looked like he was probably crying as they, you know, were playing the music and announcing his name. And then he walked on stage and like you said, started immediately speaking to Puerto Rico. I mean, just like laser focused on what he was doing. But it was a little bit surprising to me because I think his commitment to Spanish and his commitment to sort of grinding and being the best no matter what, to me as a listener and as someone who's been following his career never seemed to be about earning a certain kind of approval or earning a certain kind of recognition from the academy. And it was kind of just like he was waiting for them to catch up to him in a way. And it was so much more about putting his people on the map, putting these issues on the map, and elevating his culture, like you were saying, to a brand new stage. So it was almost interesting to watch how impacted he clearly was about winning and how careful he was with his words and who he chose to address in that moment and who he chose to dedicate the award to, because it almost feels like this is a huge milestone for him. But it's like he's already always thinking bigger. I don't think it's like this was the ultimate career defining thing that he was going for.
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Okay, we're gonna take a quick break from this conversation. We'll be right back.
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B
And we're back with Isabela Gomez Arbiento talking about Bad Bunnies. Massive moment right now. So, Issa, we left off talking a little bit about the Spanish language piece of it all. And, and you know, how and what and why he's been so consistent on message. And I think we're also witnessing a really interesting transitional moment of what the Spanish means because the way I've kind of been thinking about it and I've literally used this analogy, I'm like, he has these really cutting, sometimes quite explicit political cultural themes commentary that have reached these global levels. I mean, we're talking about an album that broke every single massive global streaming record that pretty explicitly talks about, you know, being anti gentrification, almost explicitly talks about anti imperialism. From what I understand for people, you know, who are pretty informed about Puerto Rico and the independence movement there, there are some very specific references that are him taking an explicit stance on that as well. And so, you know, he's been able to do that, I think, in part without as much pushback or without as much, you know, commentary on it. Because he's speaking in Spanish, he's gonna do that on the super bowl stage. Undoubtedly. A huge question for me is literally like, will there be subtitles?
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C
Yeah, I think that's fascinating because I think this whole year he was on a big victory lap with this album. He did this massive residency in Puerto Rico, and in a way, it was like he was bringing the world to Puerto Rico. Right? People flew from all over the place to the island. It was like he was bringing the people who wanted to be in his fold really deep into his culture. Now it's kind of the reverse. He is bringing that culture to an audience that is not only probably not familiar with his music, but maybe not willing to really engage with the messages that he's presenting, not willing to engage with the language and not willing to engage with his power as a global star, period. I think the question of subtitles is a really fascinating one. I imagine there must be to some capacity. The thing about the subtitles is, like, you can directly translate Bad Bunny's lyrics, but there's so much context around what he's singing about that that could still not really mean anything to a lot of the people watching at home. And so much of what he's gonna do, I think, is gonna have to happen visually and sonically. Like the instruments that he's using, the rhythms that he's leaning on, the musicians that he brings with him. The way that he presents this culture in a universal language. Even though we've been talking about how the whole thing about his music is that it's highly specific and going against the sort of, like, universalization of Latin music, I think that is the challenge that he's up against right now.
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And I think what we're talking about more than anything is he's consistently remained unbothered, it seems, about doing all of these things. And it's not so much that he's moving, it's that things are moving around him. Right. Like he's potentially saying and doing and speaking exactly as he would, you know, if he were playing to 500 people versus the millions and millions and millions he's going to be speaking to on this. On this really broad stage. And I think something that's important to note in all of that, too, is that he still stays on this path of contextualizing oftentimes, you know, like talking about not just whether people will understand the language, but in most of his performances at his residency on the album Visualizers he used, he always kind of doesn't leave that much room for political ambiguity in a lot of ways, because he's like. In case you don't know what I'm talking about, here's the history of Puerto Rico. We saw a little bit of that last night, even without him taking the stage right. To work in jokes about Puerto Rico's part of the United States. And again, like we said, talking about his impact in Puerto Rico. And so I can't imagine a world where he would adjust himself, whether his lyrics get translated or not, to be anything other than what he's been. Which is on message about Puerto Rico and on message now more broadly about Latinos.
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C
No, absolutely. I mean, I think the whole point is he has been unbothered and apologetic in getting to this point and in showing that, like, the people who get it, the people who Understand that's enough for him and everybody else kind of needs to get on board. I think he's been saying that implicitly and explicitly throughout his career. And I think being on a stage like this where he knows that a lot of people are gonna have a lot of strong opinions about him or they don't know about him, or they're not people who are already on board with his message, I think he's still expecting them to get on board. I mean, he made that joke during SNL a few months ago that, like, you know, he spoke in Spanish and said, if you don't understand what I'm saying, you have four months to learn. I mean, I think part of this is that he is not willing to compromise on what he represents or who he's speaking to. And I think that he's aware that that's sending a very strong political message right now because of the current climate Latinos are facing in this country.
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B
And that is something, Issa, that I think it's really important to. To address pretty directly. Like, there is something about Bad Bunny and his energy and his message and his unwillingness to compromise that almost feels to me like it exists in, like, an alternate universe from the one that the United States is currently living in. And I mean that in many ways, like, we can talk about, you know, what's happening currently politically in the United States with ICE raids and how people have been responding to that. Obviously, Bad Bunny then winning the greatest, basically cultural award, or one of the greatest cultural awards in the country, and then playing on the biggest stage that is considered to be this stage that is so representative of American values and American patriotism. I mean, that in and of itself is a really impressive contrast. But I think beyond that, the image that he presents of what it is to be Latino has consistently, since really, especially 2016, been this Stark, almost alternative universe contrast again. I mean, when we talk about the way Puerto Rico has been represented by the media around Hurricane Maria, by politicians, I mean, President Trump has spoken indirectly a number of times about Puerto Rico with the campaign, where the comedian referred to it as a floating pile of trash, where he threw the paper towels. Paper towels. After Maria. There was a point in 2020 where he said that we should replace Puerto Rico with Greenland because everyone was poor and dirty in Puerto Rico. I mean, these are some pretty key tenets of verbally flattening the identity of Puerto Rico. And then we talk about how politically Puerto Rico has been set up to be, in many ways, presented as a potential playground for wealthy people. It's been. There's the Law 22, which basically makes a haven for people to get tax breaks and benefit off of the land. And so when you see the way that Puerto Rico has often been presented and treated in a public discourse, and then you look at how Bad Bunny talks about and all of his flaws and presents it in all of its difficulties and is still in the same breath able to talk about not just how we should care about it, but really how it's, it's in his eyes, superior. I mean, he loves to talk about the superiority of what it is to be Puerto Rican and how everyone would love to be Puerto Rican and how he. Nothing gives him more pride than to get on a stage and be able to say Puerto Rico. And so we see this global superstar who consistently says, no, I'm only here because of how amazing it is to be Puerto Rican. This entire thing you're seeing, this entire record breaking, world shifting, cultural defining thing that you're watching, is Puerto Rico driven? I mean, that feels like, I don't know, are these, these two things feel almost incompatible. They're so distinct.
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C
Well, but I think they're completely related. I think we've had these two parallel tracks where Bad Bunny has emerged as this huge cultural figure who has been so completely defiant and so completely resilient in uplifting his island, uplifting where he comes from, and calling for accountability for the circumstances on the island and its relationship to, to the mainland US historically and presently. Like what you were talking about with tourism, with gentrification. I think that that has happened at the same time that we're seeing this sort of more public devaluing of the island on a political level. And that's a big part of the reason there's been so much political backlash and sort of social backlash to him doing this performance. Because I think President Trump's comments about Puerto Rico, his actions towards the island, have repeatedly positioned him and Bad Bunny as at odds with one another. Bad Bunny has been very unafraid to stand up to that confrontation. We saw it in the Nueva video. We've seen it multiple times. He's made public comments about it. And I think the fact that he chose not to tour in the US In a response to the ICE raids, but more generally in a response to this administration, is a big part of the reason why the President and so many people in power have taken so much offense to the fact that he's doing this performance because of what he represents in terms of not just being an artist in Puerto Rico or Being Latino, but being so proud of it and carrying that flag with so much joy and so much resilience. And I think that's why we're seeing, you know, Turning Point. USA has announced that they're doing counter programming halftime show. I think it's like so much of this controversy is wrapped up in the fact that he has stood his ground, and he has often met the controversy and sort of refused to stand down from it. But I think it is also really interesting, like last night at the Grammys, the fact that he sort of recentered his message on love and saying, my focus is our people and my love for my community and our love for each other before it's being positioned against anybody. I think he's sort of really setting the table for the fact that as much backlash and as much controversy and as much political sort of discourse there is around this performance, his focus is back to just presenting why he's so proud to come from Puerto Rico and how Puerto Rico put him on this massive global stage.
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B
Issa, I think it also is important to talk about, though, there are some real risks to what he's about to do on Sunday. I mean, I think, again, like, I've been kind of presenting these two maybe feeling seeming alternate realities or distinct worlds of him and the way that he's been painted or that Puerto Rico's been painted by the Trump administration. And I think what we're gonna see on Sunday is those two things coming to head in the same space at the same time. And I brought up the thing about the subtitles and the question of translation and how openly he's gonna speak, because I do think the level to which he speaks and how Puerto Rican he is, and if he really does do all these things that we're talking about him doing all the time, there is a potential for real blowback in a way that he has not experienced before. I mean, he's been playing exclusively not in the United States on this tour. He did his residency in Puerto Rico, which is in the United States, but, you know, it's in a different space in the United States. And so I think, you know, there's a lot of different things that could happen. I think, primarily, and this is just a real practical reality of this, there's a sponsorship issue. There could be a blowback of a level of hatred around that. I think, generally speaking, when we talk about super bowl halftime shows, which people insist are apolitical and they're always political. I mentioned that professor that I spoke with, Professor Perry Johnson, and she was like, it always lives. These performances always live in the context of the historical context, the political context of where they are. And. And I think that no matter what, people are gonna be upset. There's gonna be people upset that he didn't say enough, that he wasn't verbal enough, vocal enough, adamant enough. There's gonna be people who say, obviously that he was too political, that he was too Latino, that maybe they're meeting a lot of his ideals and his brazenness for the first time, and that makes them uncomfortable. I mean, this is that moment where the world really sees him in all parts of the world, not just the people that are excited about his message, not just the people who are being seen for the first time, but really, like, people who have maybe up until this point, not fully been introduced to who he is and what he's about.
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C
Yeah. And I think it carries real repercussions for the community that he's so proud of and that he is singing to. Right. Like, even the fact that he said that he wasn't gonna tour the mainland US because of ICE raids. And then when this show gets announced, Homeland Secretary Kristi Noem says that they're gonna send ICE to the super bowl to make sure that everybody there is documented. I mean, I think we. Where it's not just gonna be blowback in terms of what is said about him and how his performance is interpreted. I think it's also gonna be perhaps blowback in the way that the community that he represents continues to be talked about and continues to be treated out in the world, especially within the United States. And I think that that's a risk and a responsibility that he seems to be carrying very, very seriously. I keep coming back to these words of him saying, we can't lead with hate. We can't get contaminated with hate. If they're contaminated with hate, it leads us to do bad things. Like, I feel like there is somewhat of a fear of where this can take the conversation, because it is gonna come to a head on Sunday when he takes the stage.
- [35:31]
B
I do also wonder if people will get distracted much in the way that I talked about, you know, how with JLo, I mean, she did the Kids in Cages imagery, which the NFL tried to get her the pool the night before she performed. She refused to pull it. And yet no one was filing FCC complaints about Kids in Cages. They were filing FCC complaints about, oh, you. You shook your booty too much. And maybe that's how you do it in your. In your culture. But that's not how American family values are. And so I think there's also, like, you know, a lot about Benito that could be considered offensive in regards to how sexual some of his lyrics are, in regards to how he dances and how his dancers dance and some of that imagery, too. And so there is also just a potential. You know, when you have such a wide audience, I think it's a little bit harder for your message to land sometimes in the way that you would want it to. There might just be a nothing. I don't think so. But it might just dissolve into a. Some people are pissed about the perreo, and some people are pissed about what he said at this one moment, and the message just ended up falling a little flat. I think he's an artist who's really good at being clear on message, but there's that risk as well.
- [36:48]
C
Yeah, absolutely. And he's an artist who's familiar with controversy. Right. Like, he has done things that have alienated his own audience many times. I mean, being a reggaeton artist who dresses up as a woman in a music video or making overtly sexual music that many people, Puerto Rican and Latin American, have taken issue with, I mean, he has never shied away from controversy. I think he's about to face it on a completely different level. I think there's a lot of potential for, you know, this week after the Grammys, when the conversation is sort of, he's on top of the world as a global superstar. And it's rare to have those moments in this sort of, like, fractured culture where someone can really dominate so much of the cultural narrative. And I think this performance has the potential for that audience and this moment where so many people are rallied around him to become more fractured, because there are going to be so many opinions on so many sides of what he does or does not do, and it'll be interesting to watch what the fallout of that is and in what direction he moves the needle, if at all. Because, like you're saying, it could just be that he does the big thing and then it doesn't really land in the way that he intended. I don't think that will happen, but there is potential for it.
- [38:03]
B
Issa, we will be back in here in this exact same place next week. We'll have seen it all. We'll be ready to talk about it. Felix will be back to talk about it with us. I know. Whatever it'll be, there will be a lot to say. So everyone, don't go anywhere.
- [38:17]
C
I can't wait.
- [38:28]
B
You have been listening to Alt Latino, Our audio producer is Noah Caldwell. We had editing support this week from Jacob Ganz. The executive producer of NPR Music is Soreya Mohammed, and the executive director of NPR Music is Sonali Mehta. I'm Ana Maria Sayer. This is Alt Latino. Thank you so much for listening.
- [39:04]
D
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- [39:35]
A
NPR support for NPR. And the following message come from Washington Wise decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day. Washington Wise from Charles Schwab is an original podcast that unpacks the stories making news in Washington. Listen@schwab.com WashingtonWise.